Why are Bulgy Circle 10 Mags so $$$$$ ? [Archive]

RD62

11-14-09, 20:21

Hey guys, need some info from those here more knowledgeable then me.

I've been shopping around for some 30rd mags for my new Arsenal/Saiga SGL-21 that I just picked up from KVAR. I've read the AK Magazine Primer and had decided that what I needed was some Bulgarian Black 30rd Circle 10 mags, and some 30rd Chinese mags.

Well I just ordered 5 30rd Chinese mags, and was looking to pick up the Circle 10's and damn, they are like 3 times as expensive!

What's the deal? They do seem a little harder to find than some of the others, but $32 bucks a mag? Are they that much better?

I'm brand new to AK's but I didn't realize mags varied so much, or that some were so expensive. They don't seem much different (other than the metal reinforcement) than many of the polymer mags available for the AR series, and the Bulgy's are made in, well Bulgaria, where I guess I just assumed labor was pretty darn cheap.

So those of you in the know, please edumicate this poor soul. I still plan to pick some up eventually I guess, but that has definitely taken a back seat to some ammo and range time with my new AK and the Chinese mags.

Thanks!

-RD62

Toonces

11-14-09, 20:42

Because of the way an AK mag locks into the receiver using two points, the metal reinforcements are vital for a hard use mag. The only (commonly available) properly reinforced polymer mags are the circle-10s.

If you haven't reached your targeted number of mags, 8 (+ or -) combloc metal mags beats 3 circle-10s for the same price. Yes, the circle-10s are nice if you have the money.

jhs1969

11-14-09, 23:06

I prefer East European mags myself. I've used a ton of them in the several AKs I've owned. The Bulgarian mags seem to be ok but I have had a minor problem with the one that came with my SGL20. Some of the polymer of the body was left inside the steel feed lips and would cause excess drag on the ammo during feeding. It once prevented a round from releasing from the mag, after running a few mag fulls through it has pulled the film of polymer out and began running smooth. Unless you have a real big desire to run the polymer mags I would recommend the surplus steel mags, they are cheaper and run smooth. Good choice on the AK, mine has proven to be the most accurate AK I've ever owned. Here is a pic of a 50 and 200 yrd group from mine. Let us know how you like yours.
http://i346.photobucket.com/albums/p427/jhs1969/DSC00921.jpg

Oops, I just noticed yours is a SGL21, I assume that is the 5.45, right? In that case I used to use the East German orange mags. They prefomed very well for me. I don't see 5.45 mags in the volume I used to. Good luck, let us know what you find.

The Dumb Gun Collector

11-14-09, 23:11

To me, the Circle-10s are the HK mags are the AK world. Are they nice? Yes! Worth the $$--NO. Plus, they are chunky, and don't work in all AKs. Get the regular steel AK mags and be happy. IMHO

d90king

11-14-09, 23:25

Even Polock's like circle 10's.
http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t5/d90king/DSCN1078.jpg

Circle 10's=Pmags for AK's. I have yet to have one fail...

crowkiller

11-14-09, 23:47

Oops, I just noticed yours is a SGL21, I assume that is the 5.45, right? In that case I used to use the East German orange mags. They prefomed very well for me. I don't see 5.45 mags in the volume I used to. Good luck, let us know what you find.

The SGL21 is 7.62x39, the difference is the SGL21 has the gas block with accessory lug the SGL20 does not have the accessory lug.

SGL21 (Saiga) 7.62x39 caliber rifles are top notch, Russian made, stamped receiver, semi-automatic AK-47 variants remanufactured by Arsenal, Inc in Las Vegas, Nevada. All SGL20 rifles feature original Russian made 1mm stamped receiver, original Russian chrome lined hammer forged barrel, front sight block with bayonet lug and 24x1.5mm right-hand threads, gas block with accessory lug, US made anti-slap double stage trigger group, US made mil-spec. polymer stock set with stainless steel heat shield and trapdoor for cleaning kit, 1000 meter rear sight leaf, scope rail. They come with original Warsaw or NATO length buttstock, and in black, OD green, or plum color. Check out the tactical variations with durable aluminum handguards with Picatinny rails for attaching flashlights, scopes, lasers, or other AK accessories of your choice.

SGL20 (Saiga) 7.62x39 caliber rifles are top notch, Russian made, stamped receiver, semi-automatic AK-47 variants remanufactured by Arsenal, Inc in Las Vegas, Nevada. All SGL21 rifles feature original Russian made 1mm stamped receiver, original Russian chrome lined hammer forged barrel, front sight block with bayonet lug and 24x1.5mm right-hand threads, US made anti-slap double stage trigger group, US made mil-spec. polymer stock set with stainless steel heat shield and trapdoor for cleaning kit, 1000 meter rear sight leaf, scope rail. They come with original Warsaw or NATO length buttstock, and in black, OD green, or plum color. Check out the tactical variations with durable aluminum handguards with Picatinny rails for attaching flashlights, scopes, lasers, or other AK accessories of your choice.

jhs1969

11-15-09, 00:57

The SGL21 is 7.62x39, the difference is the SGL21 has the gas block with accessory lug the SGL20 does not have the accessory lug.

Gottcha, thanks;)

RD62

11-15-09, 08:16

Thanks guys.

I'm interested to check out these Chinese mags when they get here.

-RD62

rob_s

11-15-09, 08:28

the only steel magazine I have for my AK is the one that it came with. I can't stand the steel mags, especially the ones with the rib on the back. they're heavier, clunkier, rust too easily, and seem more finicky to me. I bought the bulgarians when they weren't so expensive, but I wouldn't want anything else.

Saginaw79

11-15-09, 15:11

I remember when those Bulg. mags were cheap as no one wanted 'polymer junk'

I had a bunch for my Norinco Underfolder and loved them. Got almost 3 times what they cost me when I sold that rifle!

Dave_M

11-16-09, 00:56

for the same reason divorce is so expensive:

Because it's worth it. :D

TOrrock

11-16-09, 09:17

Couple of reasons......

1) There's a monopoly on the importation of the magazines. K-VAR is the US subsidiary of Arsenal Bulgaria. They have the exclusive rights of importation. Anyone else that sells them here in the US, bought them wholesale from K-VAR.

2) The price of importation from Bulgaria has gotten stupid expensive. A while back, Century Arms tried to import a bunch of surplus Romanian military AKM's. They were live select fire assault rifles, thrown in a standard shipping container and put on a ship out of the Black Sea. During a routine stop in Italy, the Italian Customs Service decided to inspect the container marked "Farm Equipment" from Romania headed to the US. They opened the container and shit kittens. Piles of select fire assault rifles.....without proper paperwork.....

So....the two surface shipping companies operating in the Black Sea area now refuse to ship any firearms or firearms parts out of Bulgaria or Romania, so anythiing coming out of that area must now be shipped via air, which is vastly more expensive.

3) The quality and manufacturing, with the steel front and rear locking lugs, and reinforcements, will make them more expensive than other polymer magazines on the market.

Zhurdan

11-16-09, 10:29

I've got 30 or so circle 10's that I use, but if it's gonna be a hard day of shooting and banging mags around in the mud and gunk, I use the metal magazines. Not that I'm afraid of getting scratches on the Circle 10's or anything, I just figure I'll keep those for more serious stuff.

The metal magazines work just fine, just make sure you are buying decent ones. I bought some 20 round tanker mags for my underfolder and they are complete junk. Those got stripped for followers (which seemed ok) and tossed in the trash.

FN in MT

11-16-09, 10:31

RD62

11-16-09, 11:44

KVar tends to be expensive...despite the great AK sale going on right now.

CDNN has NEW Circle 10 Bulgy's for $15 right now. One can find used VG Polymers as low as $12 occasionally. Do also factor in that 74 mags tend to be more expensive than 47 mags.

I hated to spend KVars thirty dollar asking price for a Bulgy 30 rd AK 74 mag in OD Green...but it looks so good with the OD Green furniture.

FN in MT

Really? I must have missed those!! I see the 30rd Metal Lined Synthetic Blugarian "Slabside" mags. Are these the ones you are talking about? Are these as good as the "waffle mags"?

Thanks!

-RD62

TOrrock

11-16-09, 11:50

Really? I must have missed those!! I see the 30rd Metal Lined Synthetic Blugarian "Slabside" mags. Are these the ones you are talking about? Are these as good as the "waffle mags"?

Thanks!

-RD62

No, the commercial Bulgarian slab side magazines are not nearly as durable. They lack metal locking lugs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQalsPMe3tY

Watch the vid......

:cool:

FN in MT

11-16-09, 17:29

I'd been lead to believe they DO have the metal locking lugs. I'm not going to be happy if they don't!!

I've snagged a half dozen circle 10's for $15 each...though used in VG shape. Absolutely have the metal lugs frt & rear. Just checked with a magnet.

Well...guess I'll find out in a few days when they show up. Live and LEARN.

Interesting video.....Not very surprised that the Pro-Mag/Tapco mags failed.

FN in MT

RD62

11-16-09, 18:34

RD62

11-16-09, 18:37

No, the commercial Bulgarian slab side magazines are not nearly as durable. They lack metal locking lugs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQalsPMe3tY

Watch the vid......

:cool:

Templar,

Very educational. Thanks!

I would assume that standard metal mags would fair pretty well barring any deformation?

-RD62

TOrrock

11-16-09, 18:49

Templar,

Very educational. Thanks!

I would assume that standard metal mags would fair pretty well barring any deformation?

-RD62

Yeah, as long as they're real military magazines and not the Korean commercial magazines, no worries.

FN in MT

11-16-09, 23:27

Can you post a link to the CDNN Circle 10's you were talking about or are they the "Slabside" mags they have listed?

Thanks!

-RD62

http://www.cdnninvestments.com/ak5430blpoma.html

They have BLACK and BROWN slabsides for $14.99 each. Not trying to start a pissin'match here but I have a hard time believing they are any different than standard Circle 10's issued to troops.

Over on ARFCOM's AK47 side ......one of the posters received his mags and posted they are in fact standard military Circle 10 slabsides. With the metal reinforcements frt and rear .

FN in MT

SoDak

11-17-09, 01:06

http://www.cdnninvestments.com/ak5430blpoma.html

They have BLACK and BROWN slabsides for $14.99 each. Not trying to start a pissin'match here but I have a hard time believing they are any different than standard Circle 10's issued to troops.

Over on ARFCOM's AK47 side ......one of the posters received his mags and posted they are in fact standard military Circle 10 slabsides. With the metal reinforcements frt and rear .

FN in MT

The mag in your link is for 5.45. I thought we were talking about 7.62 mags. Did I miss something?

ETA: I did miss something. Carry on.

Boss Hogg

11-17-09, 08:02

The Circle 10s are a bit more finicky on the fit in some AKs. Ask me how I know :mad:

For the same price, you can find Finnish Valmet polymer mags that are supposed to be the best. I have a couple on order (Gunbroker) and will see how they turn out.

Moose-Knuckle

11-17-09, 08:19

Templar hit the nail on the head with the importation thing but K-VAR has never really had a "good" reputation in the industry. A decade ago when I first got into AK's K-VAR (sister company of Arsenal) was and still the only place one could obtain many of the AK related items they have in their vast inventory. With that they controlled the market...i.e. price on many items. Soon guy's like Chief Thunder came along and started importing Conex containers full of Circle 10 mags in country and the prices dropped dramatically. You use to be able to get Arctic White, OD, Hunter Green, Clear, and Black waffle mags for under $20. Now those colored ones go for well over $100 when you can find one. I stocked up on 7.62x39 waffle mags back then for only $8.99 a pop. And then back in 2005 Ohio Rapid Fire was importing A LOT of Circle 10 5.45x39 mags. I got mine brand new for $5.80 per mag...I still have unopened boxes of mags! :D

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a144/AKS-74/BulgarianColoredWaffles.gif

These day's no one else imports the Bulgarian waffle mags except Arsenal of Bulgaria (Arsenal of Las Vegas & K-VAR Corp.) so they don't have any competition to keep the prices down.

recon

11-17-09, 23:08

May need to get a couple of them.
http://www.cdnninvestments.com/ak7630slmosy.html

TOrrock

11-18-09, 07:46

http://www.cdnninvestments.com/ak5430blpoma.html

They have BLACK and BROWN slabsides for $14.99 each. Not trying to start a pissin'match here but I have a hard time believing they are any different than standard Circle 10's issued to troops.

Over on ARFCOM's AK47 side ......one of the posters received his mags and posted they are in fact standard military Circle 10 slabsides. With the metal reinforcements frt and rear .

FN in MT

I believe we were indeed talking about the 7.62x39mm and 5.56x45mm magazines.

rob_s

11-18-09, 08:14

I believe we were indeed talking about the 7.62x39mm and 5.56x45mm magazines.

If we broaden things to 5.45, are the ones linked to at CDNN worthwhile at that price?

TOrrock

11-18-09, 08:22

If we broaden things to 5.45, are the ones linked to at CDNN worthwhile at that price?

The brown and black Bulgarian ones are a very good price compared to current market pricing.

The days of new in the wrap East German bakelite AK-74 mags for $5.00 a pop is looong gone.

The Bulgarians use a dye to stabilize the polymer in their 5.45x39mm AK-74 mags, and typically use the least expensive dye they can. You'll find babyshit brown, "firebrick" red, orange-red, plum, and black.

There will also be ((10)), ((21)), and ((25)) marked Bulgarian '74 mags.

They all work the same.

rob_s

11-18-09, 08:25

The days of new in the wrap East German bakelite AK-74 mags for $5.00 a pop is looong gone.

I have a few of those that I bought at that price and should have gotten more. Same for the ammo when it was selling so cheap.

nofkneem73

11-21-09, 03:57

I have a Green Mountain bull barrel on mine, and I have yet to find an aftermarket mag that will run in it. Factory mags only for me. If you run a stock 10/22, they will run fine, and the steel lipped models work the best. Lots of info over on Rimfire Central.

RD62

11-21-09, 06:45

RD62

11-21-09, 06:47

I found some Bulgy Circle 10 30rds on GunBroker! 3 for $75. Best deal I had seen, so I bought them!

The Chinese pattern mags I ordered from AIM came in too. They appear to be in great shape, and came with a 4 mag pouch. The pouch is kind of rough, but it was free. The mags are HEAVY! Guess I'm just used to PMAGs and USGI AR mags.

-RD62

rob_s

11-21-09, 06:57

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q111/rob_s/weights/DSC_2084Small.jpg

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q111/rob_s/weights/DSC_2086Small.jpg

I'll have to look for the one of the steel mag.

FN in MT

11-21-09, 12:41

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h274/montanaguy375/IMG_1038.jpg

I thought these were quite nice for $15 each. Even the acceptance stamps were intact.

Should probably order up another six or eight before they sell out. Certainly not finished up to P-Mag standards but probably the best deal for the money out there right now if your trying to outfit a 74.

The days of dirt cheap 47/74 mags are probably over. But currently we are in the midst of quite a 5.45x39 ammo sale. Between AIM, Century and a few others NOW is the time to stock up. A few more cans of the $120 a can ammo came in on Monday. Wonder when it will go UP again?

FN in MT

RD62

11-27-09, 22:09

My Circle 10's came in today.

Very nice! Definately lighter than the Chinese style steel mags, but still surprisingly heavy. Very sturdy feeling tough... Still not sure if they are really worth the extra $$$ but at 3 for $75 I couldn't pass em up. I guess time and rounds down range will tell.

Now I just need to get to the range!

-RD62

MPi-KMS-72

11-28-09, 09:03

????

Did I miss something? We weren't talking about 10/22's but AK-47 and -74 mags.

Thanks though...

-RD62

He is a spammer.

keller

12-02-09, 22:51

http://www.cdnninvestments.com/ak7630slmosy.html

Do these have steel lips/lugs?

As an aside I was buying used (as new) 5.45 mags from Rapidfire for $2-3 a piece; wish I wouldve kept them all.

TOrrock

12-03-09, 07:00

http://www.cdnninvestments.com/ak7630slmosy.html

Do these have steel lips/lugs?

As an aside I was buying used (as new) 5.45 mags from Rapidfire for $2-3 a piece; wish I wouldve kept them all.

No, those are commercial magazines, they have steel feed lips, but the locking lugs are just polymer.

Watch the video I posted in this thread and you'll see what happens to magazines that just have polymer locking lugs.

5Bshooter

12-07-09, 20:32

Moose-Knuckle

12-08-09, 08:28

These seem to be building some interest.

http://www.us-palm.com/

Any hopes of Grant offering them? Seems to be a US manufacturer, steel locking points, and soon to be available. I like the looks of them, but also have +20 Circle 10's. We'll see...

The Katar posted a thread on those already, they look to be promising. At $29.99 they are cheaper than the Bulgarians.

SteyrAUG

12-11-09, 00:07

No, those are commercial magazines, they have steel feed lips, but the locking lugs are just polymer.

Watch the video I posted in this thread and you'll see what happens to magazines that just have polymer locking lugs.

What about the ones Aim Surplus was selling a couple weeks ago? Were those military or commercial 5.45x39 mags?

Here's a link but AIM is out of them so there page is gone.

http://gun-deals.com/displaydeal.php?dealid=4371

TOrrock

12-11-09, 08:10

What about the ones Aim Surplus was selling a couple weeks ago? Were those military or commercial 5.45x39 mags?

Here's a link but AIM is out of them so there page is gone.

http://gun-deals.com/displaydeal.php?dealid=4371

The only waffle pattern 5.45mm mags that I'm aware of are the 45 rd. Bulgarian mags from K-Var ( http://www.k-var.com/shop/product.php?productid=16903&cat=248&page=1 ).

All other military AK-74 5.45x39mm magazines will be "slab side" and good to go. Those ones at AIM are gtg.