View Full Version : 1911 IWB holster
montanadave
11-19-09, 09:41
I recently purchased a Springfield MC Operator and am looking for a quality IWB holster but here's the catch. I'm still not entirely comfortable with carrying this weapon in the "cocked and locked" condition and would like the extra piece of mind with having a holster with a thumb break.
Any suggestions or am I just being paranoid?
Derek_Connor
11-19-09, 09:45
You are being paranoid.
Dont take this as a dig, but if you aren't comfortable carrying the weapon as it was intended to be, I would not carry the weapon at all.
decodeddiesel
11-19-09, 09:59
I don't want to pick on your dude, but I 100% agree with Derek. You are being too paranoid. If you're not comfortable with having 3 separate control interactions (grip safety, thumb safety, trigger) to make the weapon fire then you probably shouldn't be carrying at all as this is probably one of the safest weapons you can carry.
I would ask, how were you planning on carrying your 1911?
Condition 2 (hammer down on a loaded chamber) is far far more dangerous than Condition 1 as you must pull the trigger and lower the hammer onto a live round. This has accidental discharge written all over it. Further you must cock the hammer prior to firing which take a good deal of time in a "time is life" situation and is something easy to screw up (not hitting full cock).
Condition 3 is essentially worthless for CCW as was explained ad-nauseum in this thread: https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=36643
If you're not comfortable carrying a 1911 the way it was intended to be carried why don't you either train with it until you are comfortable, or select a different weapon for CCW.
glazer1972
11-19-09, 10:33
I've had folks see mine and say something about the hammer being cocked. I always ask them if they carry their 870, 700 or whatever on an empty chamber cause its hammer is cocked too.
montanadave
11-19-09, 10:40
My intention is to carry this pistol in condition one and suggestions that I spend substantially more time familiarizing myself with the 1911 are duly noted. I hope to take a pistol course specific to the 1911 sometime next spring. That being said, I see nothing inherently wrong with selecting a holster with a thumb break (for both the aforementioned "additional piece of mind" and more secure retention).
So any suggestions for an IWB holster with a thumb break?
VooDoo6Actual
11-19-09, 10:43
imo,
Thumbreak is unecessary.
I use several different MOC 1911 CCW for over 30 years and in ALL instances they are condition one.
I use and prefer Bladetech and Raven.
Familarizing yourself with your weapon (it's fire control components), manipulations, tactics, mindset, markmanship etc. is NEVER a bad thing....
Carrying a weapon CCW IWB and having precious critical drawtime deterred by thumbreak malfunction / human error or getting KIT tangled/caught up is.....
YMMV.....
My intention is to carry this pistol in condition one and suggestions that I spend substantially more time familiarizing myself with the 1911 are duly noted. I hope to take a pistol course specific to the 1911 sometime next spring. That being said, I see nothing inherently wrong with selecting a holster with a thumb break (for both the aforementioned "additional piece of mind" and more secure retention).
So any suggestions for an IWB holster with a thumb break?
You're on the right track. :)
Bianchi makes a pretty nice (And readily available) IWB for a 1911. With a good belt, it's pretty stable and secure. However, there are much more stable/expensive options out there. (Milt Sparks, for one.) There's also something like a six month waiting period for them.
http://www.bianchi-intl.com/product/Prod.php?TxtModelID=3S
I can take some pictures of mine if you would like. The one displayed on the website isn't for a 1911, heh.
decodeddiesel
11-19-09, 10:50
My intention is to carry this pistol in condition one and suggestions that I spend substantially more time familiarizing myself with the 1911 are duly noted. I hope to take a pistol course specific to the 1911 sometime next spring. That being said, I see nothing inherently wrong with selecting a holster with a thumb break (for both the aforementioned "additional piece of mind" and more secure retention).
Sounds like a good plan...
So any suggestions for an IWB holster with a thumb break?
That is a tough one. A thumb break is really going to suck on an IWB holster, therefore not too many manufacturers are going to offer a holster with this feature.
A thumb break is really going to suck on an IWB holster.
I agree with this. It's not bad, but the thumb break sits so close to your body, it's a little difficult.
montanadave
11-19-09, 11:12
Found a Desantis model that fits the bill (Inner Piece w/ thumb break).
http://www.desantisholster.com:80/storefrontB2CWEB/itemdetail.do?action=prepare_detail&itm_id=8286&itm_index=0
Thoughts?
decodeddiesel
11-19-09, 11:41
Ehhh...to me it just looks like the snap for the thumb break will be pressed so close to the body that it would be hell to un-snap in a hurry. I don't know, I have no experience with this particular holster though.
The Bianchi Pistol Pocket No 3 is a decent holster with a thumbreak for a 1911.
I found it to be secure, and reasonably fast to present from and reholster
Full disclosure time- I am selling one in the EE section of this forum.
I tend to agree with the majority trend re the need for a tb in the civilian ccw context, but reasonable minds can differ.
http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn128/vcdgrips/PB080525.jpg
FromMyColdDeadHand
11-19-09, 13:51
When I think of people worrying about carry cocked and locked, I think of ADs happening. How does a thumb break rentention holster help this?
If your standard holster, without a break, doesn't hold the gun securely, get rid of the holster. An IWB holster should positively hold the gun. Ravens and Comp-tacs hold the gun for an IWB hold a gun securely.
The thumb break strap sits across the back of the gun with the hammer down. So if the hammer were to drop, it will drop against the leather strap.
Just tried it with an empty gun.
But, I wouldn't worry about the hammer ever dropping. :) I read somewhere a long time ago about an officer carrying a 1911, and smashed into the sidewalk wrestling with a suspect, and it just broke the hammer. No ND.
I had a buddy in Bozo that was not comfortable with his 1911 in C1 and should not have been carrying it. He found need of it one night when someone was robbing his construction site and drew his gun inside his truck. Then decided he didn't want to approach the perp with it in C1 so he tried to lower the hammer before exiting the truck. While VERY nervous he then managed to allow the hammer to slip with his finger on the trigger and blew a hole thru his leg and the floor of his truck.
Do not carry the gun until you are CONFIDENT that you have control of the gun and it doesn't have control over you.
Join your local IDPA and they will get you safe and comfortable... then get a Milt Sparks VM II for carry and a BN55 for range work.
These guys have some great shooters and are VERY FRIENDLY & HELPFUL
http://www.mtdpa.com/mdpa-news/35-club-news/55-idpa-montana-state-championship-match
the_fallguy
11-19-09, 15:44
A thumb break shouldn't be necessary to prevent hammer drop because the trigger finger should be kept well clear of the trigger guard and the safety engaged. In my opinion, a good holster will be formed around the safety on the pistol, which will help prevent the safety from disengaging. Many thumb breaks can actually force a safety down depending on how they are cut.
The benefit of a thumb break is in the added retention it provides during jarring movements or an attempted disarmament, or similar situations. There is plenty of retention and weight support if a good carry belt is used (in conjunction with a well made holster), so a thumb break isn't necessary with IWB carry. I have not yet had a single successful attempt at getting my pistol during retention training while I wore a cover garment over an IWB holster (knock on wood).
While a thumb break can be beneficial to retention (which you may or may not need, depending on your method of carry), it also complicates the draw. If it is unnecessary for how you carry or a requirement for where you work, I would never recommend a thumb break.
As far as cocked and locked carry is concerned, Condition One is the only acceptable carry mode for me. After just a little bit of scenario training I realized it is hard enough just to get the pistol into play, and most of the time when you do your other hand is tied up doing something. Having the expectation of being able to rack the slide is unrealistic, and handicaps your ability to respond under too many circumstances. Since it sounds like you are carrying defensively, I would suggest more familiarization with your current set up, or switching to a different platform.
Would you feel this way about a C1 Glock or Sig?
How about a C1 AR15?
Feeling unsafe about a C1 1911 is irrational. To make it fire, you have to disengage the thumb safety and disengage the grip safety, then press the trigger.
To make a Glock, Sig, XD, or M&P fire, you have to simply press the trigger.
So how much more "unsafe" are these guns in C1 than a 1911 in C1?
William B.
11-19-09, 18:38
I carry a full sized SW1911PD for my CCW. My holster doesn't have a thumb break, but just in case you're still interested it's the Crossbreed Super Tuck. Here's a link to the site: http://crossbreedholsters.com/
The Bianchi Holster that was recommended above is probably good, too. I have one that is similar to it and it's a great feeling holster.
Don't take this the wrong way, I'm just putting it bluntly. But worrying about carrying it cocked and locked is silly. You're, atleast IMHO, going to cause more trouble with a thumb break holster then solve. In two months you'll look back at this and ask yourself "what was I thinking?" ;p No big deal though, you don't have experience with it yet, when you do your fears will go away. The only thing you have to keep a eye on with that operator, assuming it's original, is the ambi safety. Once, and exactly once in my early days of carrying it I had a habit of sidling up next to the center console of my vehicle while driving. It bumped the safety off, once I identified what did it I just taught myself not to sit that way anymore and it's never happened in the 5 years since.
If you are truly worried about the hammer falling and the gun discharging, I agree you don't need to be concerned with such things. That said, if you want a thumbbreak (TB) on your holster, there's nothing wrong with that.
If you train with the holster (as you should with any type of holster), then the TB will not encumber you or slow you down. It's all about muscle memory. I've told this story before, but the quick and dirty: friend with Sig and open top holster tells me I'll be MUCH slower with my TB holster and P14 (because of the manual safety). While at the range, we have his wife say "when" at least three times, then draw and fire at a target. He lost every time by a wide margin. It all comes down to you, the operator of the equipment. If you train to disengage the TB, you'll be fine IMO. The only time I've seen a real problem is when a shooter who has used open-top holsters for years is forced (usually agency policy) to use a TB holster. Under stress, they typically yank their pants around their armpits. This is true anytime you add retention features (such as the 6004 hood, or the Blackhawk Serpa button).
As for IWB, I have four of them (each for a different weapon), all with TB's and love them. Check out the McDaniel II by Andrews Leather. The belt loop is behind the weapon, causing the belt to pull the gun in closer to you. The reinforced mouth will not collapse when the gun is drawn. You can adjust the angle of the belt loop with its locking swivel to fit you. It's an all around great IWB in my experience and I've been using it since 1997. It's the only IWB I own.
If the TB gives you peace of mind, then I say go for it. Is it necessary from a safety standpoint? I don't believe it is. Does it hurt anything to have it there? Not if you practice with it (dry and live fire).
Good luck whatever you decide.
Kevin
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