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Dennis
11-19-09, 18:40
I'm not going to make it home to record this tonight, but it looks like it should be good. For footage and mindset if nothing else...

Dennis.



http://www.hbo.com/docs/programs/terrorinmumbai/index.html

TERROR IN MUMBAI features exclusive audio tapes of the intercepted phone calls between the young gunmen and their controllers in Pakistan, and testimony from the sole surviving gunman.

The Mumbai attackers' targets included the city's main railway station, a popular cafe, two major hotels and a Jewish center. Leaving the city's iconic Taj Mahal Hotel in flames, and Mumbai's woefully unprepared police and security forces paralyzed with fear, the attacks sent an ominous message to governments around the world.

"Much as the 9/11 attacks in the U.S. did in 2001, the events that unfolded last November in Mumbai served as a terrifying wake-up call, not just to India but to the rest of the world," says narrator Fareed Zakaria, who appears on camera in the opening and closing of the film. "It broadened the spectrum of our enemies and brought attention to the number of different terrorist groups that exist, who may be bigger and better organized than we ever imagined. The fact that a small group of gunmen was able to inflict so much pain, and the government of the second most populous nation on earth was unable to stop them for three days, should change our sense of the dangers out there."

In the words of one of the operation's masterminds, who remotely controlled the terrorists' every deadly move by cell phone from neighboring Pakistan, "This was just the trailer. Just wait till you see the rest of the film." The assailants belonged to the terrorist group Lashkar-e-Taiba, or "Army of the Righteous," which aims to "liberate" Muslims living under Indian rule in Kashmir. Their mission: global jihad against the "infidels."

TERROR IN MUMBAI presents a moment-by-moment account of the horrific attacks through interviews with survivors and Indian police officials, archival news coverage, extensive video surveillance footage of the terrorists in action, and chilling audio excerpts of cell-phone conversations intercepted by security forces. The phone intercepts provide a grotesque running commentary as the controllers, watching events unfold on live TV, direct the gunmen, telling them where the security forces are, which of their hostages should be killed and how to do it. With the killers wounded and asking what to do next, the tapes reveal the controllers calmly urging them to fight to the death and not allow themselves to be taken alive.

Guests from the Taj Mahal and Oberoi hotels tell how the terrorists first staged mass executions, then worked their way through the corridors, killing whenever they managed to enter a room. An elderly couple recounts how they were spared by the terrorists when it was realized they were fellow Muslims, while all around them were mowed down in a hail of bullets. Perhaps the most unsettling testimony comes from Ajmal Amir Kasab, the sole surviving terrorist, who answers his captors' questions with startling frankness from a gurney soon after being captured.

While the Mumbai attacks differed in many ways from the Al Qaeda assault on the U.S. on September 11, 2001, the personal motives of the Laskar-e-Taiba terrorists bear some of the same hallmarks, notably the belief that there would be material wealth for their families and heavenly glory for themselves if they died for the cause of jihad.

What remains unclear is how this quest for holiness meshed with the indiscriminate nature of the killings, which mowed down Muslims and non-Muslims alike.

"One of the most disturbing facets of this story is how easily such low-tech attacks could be duplicated anywhere, including the U.S.," says director Dan Reed. "Hopefully, other governments can learn from the Mumbai experience and plan a coordinated response."

Cold Zero
11-19-09, 20:26
Thanks for the heads up. It was worth seeing. Eye into the enemy.

SW-Shooter
11-19-09, 23:14
They made the ending sound like it's all America's fault because we are a wealthy nation. It's a shame the middle east has been around longer than the U.S.A., and they still can't get their act together. Blame those that are successful, blame them for your failures. I think Obama produced the documentary.

Belmont31R
11-19-09, 23:17
They made the ending sound like it's all America's fault because we are a wealthy nation. It's a shame the middle east has been around longer than the U.S.A., and they still can't get their act together. Blame those that are successful, blame them for your failures. I think Obama produced the documentary.


Its HBO...what were you expecting from the same group that employs Bill Maher.

SWATcop556
11-20-09, 10:17
Its HBO...what were you expecting from the same group that employs Bill Maher.

This. The same guy that said America "had it coming" when 9-11 happened.

A-Bear680
11-20-09, 11:09
Word:

Thanks for the heads up. It was worth seeing. Eye into the enemy.

Some of the big questions to ask are:
Why did they hit Bombay?
Why that country ?
Why that area in that specific province at that specific time?

Why is the Mumbia Massacre mentioned in a recent Federal Court ruling?

A-Bear680
11-21-09, 12:06
The program will be on the air again on Sunday , Nov , 22 .

Just click on the link provided by Dennis and go to " Schedule ".

Safetyhit
11-21-09, 12:24
Its HBO...what were you expecting from the same group that employs Bill Maher.



I tried to get rid of HBO recently due to their slop, but Comcast has them ingrained into their lineup. It's now all or nothing, so to speak.

Sucks because I don't want them to have a dime of my money.

Shadow1198
11-21-09, 23:40
Just saw this. DANG! I knew a lot of people died, though I guess I didn't realize how involved and spread out this whole attack was.

FromMyColdDeadHand
11-21-09, 23:59
I'm taping it in the morning to watch. That Z guys is on ABC news, right? One of these foreigners who comes here only to tell us how wrong we are, as far as I can tell.

Stuff like this had made me rethink my CCW options. I live within a few miles of the guy that was making bombs here in Denver. I've had to be within a hundred yards of him more than a few times since I fly so much and he had a job at the airport.

Only a matter of time before they buy some guns at a gun show and do something like this here. Unfortunately, the first impulse will be to disarm us further :(

A-Bear680
11-22-09, 05:18
Maybe not.

The Mumbai attacks were mentioned in 9th Circuit's Second Amendment incorporation ruling:
www.bureaucrash.com/2009/04/23/nordyke-v-king-another-victory-for-gun-rights/

" The right to bear arms is a bulwark against external invasion ... We recently saw in the case of the terrorist attack on Mumbai that terrorists may enter a country covertly by ocean routes , landing in small craft .... to wreak havoc. That we have a lawfully armed populace adds a measure of security for all of us and makes it less likely that a band of terrorists could make headway in an attack on any community before more professional forces arrived."

ballistic
11-22-09, 07:10
Starting at 0855hrs ET this morning on HBO East. Going to set the DVR.

Schedule (http://www.hbo.com/apps/schedule/ScheduleServlet?ACTION_DETAIL=DETAIL&FOCUS_ID=704114).

tweakmeister
11-22-09, 13:03
HBO had an EXCELLENT documentary of the Moscow theater hostage take several years ago.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moscow_theater_hostage_crisis

d90king
11-22-09, 14:17
Watched it and was shocked at what cowards the Indian police were. They sat by as people were being slaughtered and were running away and hiding from untrained punk kids, as if they had just run into a team of US Rangers or SEALS...

Disgusting. There is a lot of blood on the hands of those cowards... 5 guys from this board could have ended that massacre faster...


Gandhi once said, that the single largest crime that the British committed against India was leaving the country un-armed. I am paraphrasing but its pretty close.

FromMyColdDeadHand
11-23-09, 00:24
Watching my recording of it now. Unbelievable. Incompetence, cowardice, general stupidy. The only good thing that I can gleam from it so far is that our first responders would handle things so much better.

A-Bear680
11-23-09, 18:45
HBO had an EXCELLENT documentary of the Moscow theater hostage take several years ago.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moscow_theater_hostage_crisis
The HBO Mumbai story is from the same director.

This is an old news clip about the capture of two of the criminals:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSO5Xn7qAYs

d90king
11-23-09, 20:56
Watching my recording of it now. Unbelievable. Incompetence, cowardice, general stupidy. The only good thing that I can gleam from it so far is that our first responders would handle things so much better.


IMHO, they would have all been dead within 30-60 minutes. I could be wrong but the terrorist looked like untrained, punk kids. Looked like small units could have taken them out with very little effort.

ThirdWatcher
11-23-09, 21:04
Thanks for the heads up. I TiVoed it and watched it today before going to work. I turned it off at the end when the narrator started his analysis. (I don't get my facts from entertainers.)

I think those of you that are describing the police as cowardly are missing the point. They had inadequate training, weaponry, and leadership and therefore weren't prepared to protect their people from a terrorist attack. I'm going to hold off on passing judgment until after I survive my first terrorist attack.

d90king
11-24-09, 06:29
Thanks for the heads up. I TiVoed it and watched it today before going to work. I turned it off at the end when the narrator started his analysis. (I don't get my facts from entertainers.)

I think those of you that are describing the police as cowardly are missing the point. They had inadequate training, weaponry, and leadership and therefore weren't prepared to protect their people from a terrorist attack. I'm going to hold off on passing judgment until after I survive my first terrorist attack.


Watch it and see if your opinion changes. When you are there to protect the citizens and turn and run with your weapon away from the trouble, sorry but I think that is a cowardly act.

TOrrock
11-24-09, 07:01
I was not suprised re: performance of the Indian police and troops.

TOrrock
11-24-09, 07:25
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/8370017.stm

RogerinTPA
11-24-09, 09:14
I had a friend who was caught up in that, across the street from the hotel, while his boss was trapped inside the hotel (He survived by the way). He couldn't believe the cowardliness and incompetence unfolding before his eyes. Being a redhead, he stood out like a sore thumb. I told him I know it's against the law, but he needs to lay hands on a 9mm ASAP, dye his hair and avoid tourist areas for the remainder of his contract.

CharlieKilo
11-24-09, 10:52
I wonder why no mention of the ISI helping Lashkar-e-Taiba?

Dennis
11-24-09, 17:04
From all accounts the Indian police are ill-trained and equipped even worse. I finally watched the documentary last night and thought it was good, although more about the victims than the technical details.

A couple things that jumped out at me:
- Some officers grabbed others weapons, but they jammed/misfired.
- Most had 5 shot bolt actions, probably all older than me.
- I have heard the Police have little to no firearms training.
- Bad guys mostly had stocks folded, firing from hip.
- Didn't take much to pin them down.
- Tangos were peasant kids with 3mos training (probably mostly brainwashing) and were more amazed at the luxurious sights in the Taj Hotel than with killing people. (bet you future Tango training will take that into account)


It seems these end-user Tangos were mostly just human automatons, set and controlled to do what they were told. The independent thought is mostly taken from them and they required constant contact with their handlers to continue their work. Although the 9/11 hijackers were apparently of a much higher intelligence level, so I guess they have multiple options for attacking us.

My Dept. has definitely been ramping up and making some good contingency plans for a Mumbai style attack, but with any luck we will get the peasant Tangos and they will get lost in our famous traffic first and give up! :D

Dennis.

armakraut
11-24-09, 19:58
Bolt action rifles work horribly if you don't have the training and intestinal fortitude to put the front sight on the bad guy and pull the trigger. I guess there weren't too many hindu Alvin Yorks around that day.

armakraut
02-07-10, 16:46
Finally saw the documentary. The police had a lot of problems not necessarily stemming from cowardice.

- Firearms sometimes weren't in working order, one police officer would have been able to kill the shooter that was captured if the bolt action rifle he had commandeered from a fellow officer actually worked.

- Another police officer in the jeep by the hospital would have been able to kill both the railway shooters if he hadn't relinquished control of his pistol to another officer that had no weapon. He had a sten gun in the jeep, but was unable to reach it.

- In fact a shortage of weapon seems to have been a very common. The off duty officer at the railway station had no weapon of any kind.

- There's still an assumption that these terrorists are taking hostages for reasons other than killing them. The primary goal should be to kill the terrorists as quickly as possible. Both in Beslan and Mumbai, the longer things stretched out, the more people died. You can't even bother talking to them, anything they say is not trustworthy, you just have to go in as soon as possible, you're not dealing with individuals of a sane mindset, they came to murder.

- It should have become readily apparent that the terrorists were heavily reliant on the controller. If cellphone communication had been jammed, it might have lasted 6 hours instead of 36 hours. They had to be ordered (sometimes repeatedly ordered, 2-4 times) to do things like light buildings on fire, kill hostages, etc.

- If ten terrorists jumped on a boat from Mexico, they could do the same thing in San Diego, San Francisco, or Los Angeles with the same arsenal of automatic weapons and grenades, accomplishing similar results.