View Full Version : Taurus PT1911, feasible 1911 for defense?
SW-Shooter
11-23-09, 16:03
Why the hatred? I've heard of finish, and hammer follow issues but don't other manufacturers 1911 style firearms have their(or had) problems from time to time?
Aside from all of the Taurus bashing, why do you consider this 1911 a no go? Please provide some substantiation. Please don't post the typical Taurus bashing rhetoric.
I've not heard of one instance of a 1911 KB from this model.
ETA: I understand this is a low price point 1911, and will not compete with a 2K 1911.
I have a good friend with one and have had no problems with it. He also have a Kimber Raptor...both nice guns...
I think PT1911 is a good gun for the money!
I wouldn't trust my life to one.
I've only handled and shot two of them, but based upon the two that I've seen and what I've heard from others they are a fairly roughly assembled hodge-podge of parts.
A guy at my work bought one to carry on duty to prove to us that you didn't have to spend a lot of a quality 1911. The plunger tube and firing pin stop all promptly fell apart within the first 1,500 rounds. He's now back to carrying the issued M&P.
When there are much better options out there in the same price area, like the M&P 45 or Glocks, why bother with a gun of questionable quality?
SW-Shooter
11-23-09, 16:49
I wouldn't trust my life to one.
I've only handled and shot two of them, but based upon the two that I've seen and what I've heard from others they are a fairly roughly assembled hodge-podge of parts.
A guy at my work bought one to carry on duty to prove to us that you didn't have to spend a lot of a quality 1911. The plunger tube and firing pin stop all promptly fell apart within the first 1,500 rounds. He's now back to carrying the issued M&P.
When there are much better options out there in the same price area, like the M&P 45 or Glocks, why bother with a gun of questionable quality?
I think by merely not owning one, and shooting one twice this is an unqualified opinion. But thank you for the info about the tube and stop. I'd more likely replace a few parts with Wilson or some other company. I'll await the next post from someone that has more experience behind the trigger of a PT1911.
rubberneck
11-23-09, 18:30
I think by merely not owning one, and shooting one twice this is an unqualified opinion. But thank you for the info about the tube and stop. I'd more likely replace a few parts with Wilson or some other company. I'll await the next post from someone that has more experience behind the trigger of a PT1911.
A simple thank you would have been good enough. The guy was trying to help you and you cop an attitude. I was going to give you my $.02 based off one used at a friends range as a rental but I think I can do without the attitude.
By the time you are finished switching out parts with quality replacements, your
"savings" over a gun with an overall better reputation i.e. Springfield or used Series I Kimber will likely evaporate presuming a new Taurus purchase price of 550 to 600 for a blued gun.
You have already contemplated a new firing pin stop and plunger tube. i suspect since you will have then gun that far apart, you will likely end up replacing the Taurus unique hammer with the key lock built inside of it. This will mean a bit of work to fit it and to get and /or keep a decent trigger job.
Since you are replacing the hammer, you might think about replacing all the other internals with some type of matched set.
I frequent a private board that is populated with the 1911 "gurus of old and some new. The collective universal opinion is the the Taurus 1911 is a good concept that contiues to be marginally executed on its best day.
YMMV greatly
david of vcdgrips.com
FULL DISCLOSURE
I own 2 1911s, both Kimber Series I guns
I have only shot one Taurus 1911. It was a POS.
It has since had 200.00 woth of new parts put it in by a guy who knows a thing or two about 1911s, it is now a marginal gun at best as the good parts only fit/function so so given the outofspectness of the frame, slide etc.
SW-Shooter
11-23-09, 19:15
No disrespect was intended, I'm sorry it came out so bluntly.
MarshallDodge
11-23-09, 19:18
I have never shot one and will not own one because it has a firing pin safety.
I have heard mostly good things about them from the gun shops that I frequent. One of them said that they had their doubts about their reliability but that they have never had one returned.
On the forums you hear about a lot of failures with their small parts and I believe it based on Taurus' reputation.
If you want a 1911 I think there are better choices out there.......
SW-Shooter
11-23-09, 20:13
While I would love to own a better 1911, I cannot afford one. I picked up the Taurus for about the price of a low end condition Glock, Less than $350.00. So I'd like to upgrade it over some time by putting quality parts on it.
I've wanted a 1911 forever, so this is my chance.
I just want an honest review of it, not necessarily an opinion, just the facts.
Can I put good parts on it and make it as good as some of the quality 1911's?
Which parts should I look at replacing first?
I know the frame, slide, and barrel are good to go. I should be able to start by replacing the smaller parts, right?
Thanks
I think by merely not owning one, and shooting one twice this is an unqualified opinion. But thank you for the info about the tube and stop. I'd more likely replace a few parts with Wilson or some other company. I'll await the next post from someone that has more experience behind the trigger of a PT1911.
how much more qualified do you think an opinion on this is going to get?
because of the name and short, bad reputation, there are probably extremely few people on earth who've put high volumes of ammunition through one/some. so you're not likely to get any SME opinions either way.
because people don't use weapons that have problems, you're also not likely to get anything more than "i had one, it broke at X round-count, so i stopped using it."
quality is expensive.. if it's cheap, there's a reason. no manufacturer will produce a quality gun/part and sell it for less than it's worth. thats why all the good gear is expensive, and all the crap gear is cheap. if taurus produced a quality 1911, they would sell it for two to three times the current MSRP.
tacdrivrnc
11-23-09, 20:28
well, my .02...
I've put about 1K rounds through one since I bought it slightly used over a year ago. I have had no problems or breakages. The trigger is nice and smooth, and I have no complaints so far. I have a couple of Taurus 92's, and while the triggers aren't as crisp on those as the Italian Beretta 92 import guns from a couple years ago (I have a pair of them), the quality on the Taurus 92's has been good also. I haven't had any problems with them either.
Now granted, when I carry, I carry a small Glock 26 or 31SF because I have a small frame and the 1911 or FS92's would print like hell, but I have the Taurus' sitting around as home defense guns with tac lights on them, and I'd trust them to solve problems that came through the door.
Wow it's amazing just how much the Taurus name causes a decent gun to crash & burn in so many opinions. True there are a bunch of folks that have has bad experiences with them.....but there are just as many....actually more that have had experiences from good to great. I just happen to be in the latter group. I am on my 2nd PT-1911. The first a Christmas gift from me to my younger son, who today has over 5000 rounds through his. I am an old 1911 guy from a long way back so before I bought the gun I detailed stripped it, in front of the gunstore clerk, after I signed a paper stating I would buy it if I could not get it back together without any extra parts laying around.:p I visually inspected those parts and compared them to my Wilson Combat CQB. Yes there were a bunch of MIM parts, but the same can be said for some other popular 1911's out there. I was a little disappointed in the tooling marks I found in areas that were not affected by them, just used to not seeing them. The gun came apart and went back together just like it was supposed to. The barrek lock up was as tight as a vault, and there was no more slide looseness than any other non custom 1911 I have owned. I had heard about the front cocking grooves not being even on both sides, that was not the case on this particular gun. It looked and felt like a run of the mill 1911, most certainly not a custom or a semi-custom.....but then I was not paying for one either. The tale of the tape was to be on the range in how it functioned and how accurate it was. Accuracy was on par with either my Kimber TLE II or my Springfield Loaded and there was only one malfunction in 6 different brands of 230gr. ammo. One of my Winchester White Box JHP's split a case and had to be driven out with a wooden dowell. I could not believe that they would stick such a cheap pair of plastic grip panels on such a loaded gun but I was not about to give it to my son with them on. I had a nice set of cocobolo double diamond checkered wood panels I put on the gun. My son still thinks his dear old Dad is the greatest for giving him such a good gun for his first 1911. Well I liked it so mch that I came across the stainless railed version of the same gun and bought it for myself. So far the gun has been great. One complaint I had was the barrel bushing fit to the slide. It was a bit loose for my tastes, so I replaced it with an Ed Brown bushing I fit into place and other that some cosmetic custom changed I made for my own personal touch...it has run like the proverbial Timex watch. Last weekend I was at the range with it again, since I added the magwell and flat bottom grips, and put another 100 rounds through it which comes to a grand total of 750. No problems whatsoever. I truly like this gun and it is doing duty as my home defense weapon with a TRL-2 light/laser mounted on the rail. I have 5 other 1911's that I could also call upon to do so, but this gun is the one that just feels right and keeps proving the naysayers wrong...over & over again.
Is this gun the do all, for all and be all.....not many can claim that, but for the money paid to purchase it......well I got more than my money's worth. One big issue is the Taurus customer service. Barring any frame/slide cracking or some major issue like that, the gun is, for the most part just like any other 1911 out ther so most aftermarket parts are interchangable with it.
tex45acp
SW-Shooter
11-23-09, 20:36
tex,
Exactly the kind of comments I was hoping for, thank you Sir. Keep em coming.
tex,
Exactly the kind of comments I was hoping for, thank you Sir. Keep em coming.
You're looking for validation on a purchase that you've already made.
I know of no serious smith/1911 guru who has anything positive to say about them. Taurus has a well deserved reputation for putting out crap semi auto pistols, that's just the way it is.
I'm not saying this to be mean, I'm not trying to rain on your parade, just understand that while yes, it is certainly possible to get one that is well put together and reliable, the chances of getting one that isn't is much greater than it should be.
I think if you know the weapons limitations you'll be good to go. Of the two different PT 1911's I've shot I think "run of the mill" sums their lineup best. They're certainly not the worst of the breed. As far as upgrading goes I would shoot the s@#$ out of it, and replace whatever breaks, if anything, or whatever makes the gun more user friendly.
Good luck and burn up lots of ammo
One of the guys at my local fun shop, who is actually a shooter and not a gun shop commando, and whose opinion I trust told me that they had almost every PT1911 they sold back in for some repair or another. He couldn't and wouldn't recommend it even as a base gun.
I think if you know the weapons limitations you'll be good to go. Of the two different PT 1911's I've shot I think "run of the mill" sums their lineup best. They're certainly not the worst of the breed. As far as upgrading goes I would shoot the s@#$ out of it, and replace whatever breaks, if anything, or whatever makes the gun more user friendly.
Good luck and burn up lots of ammo
you can't fix a broken part if you're dead. advice like this totally ignores Murphy's Law. the "limitation" in question is whether or not the gun will fire a round when needed- that's not something you can just work with.
if your budget is $600 for a carry weapon, there's fantastic options available to you. if it's not to be a weapon you'll use in defense of yours or your life, and the money's just burning a hole in your pocket- go for it. see what you can pull off... but please don't hang lives on notoriously poor manufacturing.
SW-Shooter
11-23-09, 21:08
My CCW is a Glock 30SF, and has been for the past year. I'd bet some people would say that it is a poor choice as well. As far as the Taurus goes it will reside in a drawer next to the entry way, my door gun.
I'll do what i do with every gun I own, shoot the crap out of it and test its reliability. I really wanted to hear from those that owned them.
I just can't get past all of the Taurus bashing even from those that don't even own one. That's why I made it clear that I wanted real world owners/shooters to chime in. I guess you can't always get what you ask for.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gx7HYgTWAsg&feature=related
Top Gun Supply
11-23-09, 21:22
I tend to judge a gun on it's own individual merits. If you are wanting to use this gun for self defense, run several hundred rounds of your defense ammo through it, or find an ammo it likes. If it proves reliable, why not carry it. If it doesn't prove 100% reliable, get it fixed or find a different carry weapon.
Can I put good parts on it and make it as good as some of the quality 1911's?
The short answer is "No." With 1911 pistols, it's not just a question of part selection, it's an issue of how well they are fit together to avoid cycling issues. Holes drilled at improper angles, barrels not being properly fit, an improper cut in the slide or frame are not going to be cured by good parts alone.
Spending hundreds of dollars on parts and gunsmithing to try to upgrade your PT1911 is basically going to be an education for you. It seems that you don't want to hear from anyone who had a bad experience doing what you are contemplating so I don't know that you will learn the lessons.
I would recommend against investing any money trying to change a Taurus PT1911 into anything other than what it is. It's an entry level 1911 with some of the popular upgrades. That's it. It does not compare well to the better examples of the 1911 design. Putting in extra money for work and parts undoes whatever bargain you think you got by buying a PT1911.
Shoot it to learn what you like and don't like about the 1911 design. When you decide you want a better 1911, sell it and save your money for a better 1911. Don't waste your money doing custom work on a PT1911.
John_Wayne777
11-24-09, 07:36
Why the hatred? I've heard of finish, and hammer follow issues but don't other manufacturers 1911 style firearms have their(or had) problems from time to time?
Yes, practically every 1911 maker has put out problem guns. The problem here is that Taurus has a long and storied reputation for putting out problematic guns not in the 1911 pattern...which does not boost one's confidence in their ability to produce a reliable and serviceable specimen of probably the hardest extant pistol design to get right.
Aside from all of the Taurus bashing, why do you consider this 1911 a no go? Please provide some substantiation. Please don't post the typical Taurus bashing rhetoric.
It's not "rhetoric" to point out that a company has a particularly dismal history of putting out products that don't work very well. Taurus semi-autos have a bad reputation for a reason.
ETA: I understand this is a low price point 1911, and will not compete with a 2K 1911.
Then perhaps you're not really understanding the point...
The foremost 1911 experts on this planet will tell you that if you want a 1911 you can bet your life on, you will have to spend about 2 grand on it. There are a number of reasons why they say this.
Your thread asks specifically about betting your life on a Taurus 1911. Given that the people who know more about the 1911 platform than anyone else have already given us the advice that a duty quality 1911 STARTS at 1,500-2,000 dollars it seems to me that the question of whether or not the Taurus offering is feasible for self defense has been answered. For playing on the square range anything will do...but for a weapon you could bet your life (or the life of your family) on does it really make sense to try and use a notoriously difficult platform (the 1911) produced by a company with a long history of getting things wrong?
I owned a PT1911 for over a year. It was my first government model and I used it as a match [IDPA, single stack] gun. I found it reliable with my reloads, or any other load for that matter. It was also accurate enough for me. I sold it to fund another project. I got excellent resale value due to its popularity. I can't speak to any other Taurus firearms because I have no other experience.
http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/6237/img0382esv.jpg
http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/3151/img0387s.jpg
http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/1029/img0388j.jpg
http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/9056/img0389cjq.jpg
Taurus Frame
Caspian slide
Internals were all replaced.
As many on here know there are few people who own, or have owned as many 1911's as I do and have ( I have sold off many in the last year or so)... Because I am a 1911 guy, I have shot and handled a few to see what they are all about.
The first one I handled had the TS shear off by simply disengaging it. The second one I handled and shot had feeding issues (no I did not try and diagnose wether it was mag related or not). The last one took the cake... Someone who will remain nameless decided they wanted me to see "the best value 1911 out there", so off to the range I go... Short story is that after about 100 rounds the hammer sheared off. End of story...
Supposedly they use Imbel forgings for their frames and slides.... I don't know if its true or not because I have never cared enough to research.
I would never buy a Taurus and if I was given one I would gut it down to the frame/slide and replace all small parts including barrel, bushing, etc.
Just an honest example of my personal experience with a PT... Bottom line is that there are better products available at a price point that is close. Buy a SA GI and build on it till it suites your needs. I highly recommend John Harrison for the work.
RogerinTPA
11-25-09, 09:51
The problem with firearm manufacturers (to include the AR) in general is the fact that most build guns under the assumption that they will be sold to a "gun collector" who will initially shoot a few boxes through it, then throw it in the night stand, closet or safe, for the rest of it's natural life. Even most CCW folks, rarely practice or seek remedial training with their firearm. If the general population were like the folks on this board, "gun users', who shoot 5K to 10K+ a year, you wouldn't have all the crap floating around out there, and by default, the quality of firearms being sold, would increase 10 fold.
While I would love to own a better 1911, I cannot afford one.
If you cannot afford a 1911 "feasible for defense," to borrow your thread topic, then why get one to use for defensive purposes? You're essentially admitting that you'd rather compromise on quality, reliability, and essentially your own confidence in the weapon rather than buy something for the same price point that is more dependable.
As a toy or a training gun, knock yourself out. If it doesn't work, get it fixed. As something you or your loved ones' lives may depend on, why in the world would you buy a Taurus 1911 compared to the myriad of hard-proven guns at the same price point?
I just want an honest review of it, not necessarily an opinion, just the facts.
The fact is that you'll be hard pressed to find anyone serious about defensive use of handguns who would choose the Taurus 1911 in the first place, making detailed long term high round count "reviews" non-existant.
Which parts should I look at replacing first?
Whichever lobe of your brain is telling you to buy a Taurus 1911. :cool:
I know of no serious smith/1911 guru who has anything positive to say about them. Taurus has a well deserved reputation for putting out crap semi auto pistols, that's just the way it is.
This.
William B.
11-25-09, 11:51
The problem with firearm manufacturers (to include the AR) in general is the fact that most build guns under the assumption that they will be sold to a "gun collector" who will initially shoot a few boxes through it, then throw it in the night stand, closet or safe, for the rest of it's natural life. Even most CCW folks, rarely practice or seek remedial training with their firearm. If the general population were like the folks on this board, "gun users', who shoot 5K to 10K+ a year, you wouldn't have all the crap floating around out there, and by default, the quality of firearms being sold, would increase 10 fold.
It blows my mind that manufacturers would release a low quality product to a market in which there is a good chance the end user could be military, LE, or a CCW. I have told this story before. When I was new to guns I bought a charging handle at a gun show that turned out to be made of pot metal. Fortunately I realized something was wrong because of the extra flex in the CH and had it replaced immediately. If I had put that on my issue rifle and not realized that it was poor quality it could have gotten me killed. What can we do to hold these companies responsible for the potential hazards that their products could cause?... I won't buy from them. That's for sure. This is not the right industry or market for cheap knock-off's and careless QC. People's lives could be on the line.
William B.
11-25-09, 12:00
I can't afford to shoot 10K a year through my firearms. That's why I use this forum and 1 or 2 gun mags and listen to the ones who can and have. People here will give you honest opinions and facts without insulting you. That's something you won't get from most firearms forums or mags.
RogerinTPA
11-25-09, 12:11
It blows my mind that manufacturers would release a low quality product to a market in which there is a good chance the end user could be military, LE, or a CCW. I have told this story before. When I was new to guns I bought a charging handle at a gun show that turned out to be made of pot metal. Fortunately I realized something was wrong because of the extra flex in the CH and had it replaced immediately. If I had put that on my issue rifle and not realized that it was poor quality it could have gotten me killed. What can we do to hold these companies responsible for the potential hazards that their products could cause?... I won't buy from them. That's for sure. This is not the right industry or market for cheap knock-off's and careless QC. People's lives could be on the line.
From a manufacturing stand point, nothing.
From a personal stand point, listen to folks with real actual knowledge and experience, do your research about a particular firearm AND, shop wisely.
Why the hatred? I've heard of finish, and hammer follow issues but don't other manufacturers 1911 style firearms have their(or had) problems from time to time?
Aside from all of the Taurus bashing, why do you consider this 1911 a no go? Please provide some substantiation. Please don't post the typical Taurus bashing rhetoric.
I've not heard of one instance of a 1911 KB from this model.
ETA: I understand this is a low price point 1911, and will not compete with a 2K 1911.
What is the Taurus "feasible" for? I would say holding a door open or digging a hole in the Earth. :D
As a long time 1911 shooter/fan, I would say that in order to get a combat reliable 1911, you will need to spend at least $1,200 (Springfield TRP) and really be looking at something in the $2200 + range. Why you ask? Because the reason why the cheaper 1911 are so cheap is because they are full of MIM parts.
We don't accept MIM parts in our optics mounts (ARMS throw levers) so why would we want them in our guns?
Now if the gun is going to be a safe queen and see limited rounds through it, then I would say buy whatever you want (as it doesn't matter). If you are actually going to put 3,000-5,000 rds a year through the gun and bet your life on it, I would say PASS!
C4
You're looking for validation on a purchase that you've already made.
I know of no serious smith/1911 guru who has anything positive to say about them. Taurus has a well deserved reputation for putting out crap semi auto pistols, that's just the way it is.
I'm not saying this to be mean, I'm not trying to rain on your parade, just understand that while yes, it is certainly possible to get one that is well put together and reliable, the chances of getting one that isn't is much greater than it should be.
BINGO!
C4
It blows my mind that manufacturers would release a low quality product to a market in which there is a good chance the end user could be military, LE, or a CCW. I have told this story before. When I was new to guns I bought a charging handle at a gun show that turned out to be made of pot metal. Fortunately I realized something was wrong because of the extra flex in the CH and had it replaced immediately. If I had put that on my issue rifle and not realized that it was poor quality it could have gotten me killed. What can we do to hold these companies responsible for the potential hazards that their products could cause?... I won't buy from them. That's for sure. This is not the right industry or market for cheap knock-off's and careless QC. People's lives could be on the line.
Happens all the time. Ever heard of Oly Arms?
Most gun manufacturers do NOT expect the person buying their gun to ACTUALLY shoot it very much.
It is cheaper for them to take the chance that you won't shoot it than to put quality parts in the weapon. If you actually do shoot it and break something, covering the shipping back to them and repair is a gamble they are willing to take.
C4
William B.
11-25-09, 12:49
Happens all the time. Ever heard of Oly Arms?
Most gun manufacturers do NOT expect the person buying their gun to ACTUALLY shoot it very much.
It is cheaper for them to take the chance that you won't shoot it than to put quality parts in the weapon. If you actually do shoot it and break something, covering the shipping back to them and repair is a gamble they are willing to take.
C4
Ha! Yeah, I know them! Would never consider owning one.
Happens all the time. Ever heard of Oly Arms?
Most gun manufacturers do NOT expect the person buying their gun to ACTUALLY shoot it very much.
It is cheaper for them to take the chance that you won't shoot it than to put quality parts in the weapon. If you actually do shoot it and break something, covering the shipping back to them and repair is a gamble they are willing to take.
C4
Thats really fnn pathetic! I wish nothing but bad things on companies that do that shit.
SW-Shooter
11-25-09, 14:33
Here's me eating HUMBLE PIE. What a piece of shit this Taurus PT1911 is.
It didn't even make it to the range before the left side safety worked itself loose and came OUT. I'll have to find some way to get something out of it.
I put it back in its case where it will sit until I sell it or trade it off.:o:mad:
I'm sorry I ever tried to defend it for anything other than what Grant said it should be used for. My humble apologies for this waste of bandwidth.
Here's me eating HUMBLE PIE. What a piece of shit this Taurus PT1911 is.
It didn't even make it to the range before the left side safety worked itself loose and came OUT. I'll have to find some way to get something out of it.
I put it back in its case where it will sit until I sell it or trade it off.:o:mad:
I'm sorry I ever tried to defend it for anything other than what Grant said it should be used for. My humble apologies for this waste of bandwidth.
No worries, its how we all learn... If you note my post you experienced the same thing I did and warned of, except it snapped off on me!:eek:
My CCW is a Glock 30SF, and has been for the past year. I'd bet some people would say that it is a poor choice as well.
Some folks may not like the feel of Glocks, the trigger, the sights, whatever, but almost no one would claim that it is an unreliable or unsafe pistol.
That's what people are telling you about the Taurus - note the difference.
Here's me eating HUMBLE PIE. What a piece of shit this Taurus PT1911 is.
It didn't even make it to the range before the left side safety worked itself loose and came OUT. I'll have to find some way to get something out of it.
I put it back in its case where it will sit until I sell it or trade it off.:o:mad:
I'm sorry I ever tried to defend it for anything other than what Grant said it should be used for. My humble apologies for this waste of bandwidth.
It takes a big man to take a bite out of humble pie. It initially tastes like chit, but you will grow (as a man) because of it.
Call up Taurus and get the weapon fixed and then sell it. Save your money and guy a used TRP or WC.
C4
I believe Taurus will pick up shipping both ways.
montanadave
11-25-09, 14:53
This has been a most enlightening and, at times, amusing thread. Condolences to the OP on the pistol not living up to his expectations. That said, it appears to have met the expectations of several members who offered feedback on the Taurus.
When I got the 1911 bug several months back, I also looked at the Taurus, Rock Island, etc. but ended up buying a used Springfield MC Operator. Damn glad I did.
Here's me eating HUMBLE PIE. What a piece of shit this Taurus PT1911 is.
It didn't even make it to the range before the left side safety worked itself loose and came OUT. I'll have to find some way to get something out of it.
I put it back in its case where it will sit until I sell it or trade it off.:o:mad:
I'm sorry I ever tried to defend it for anything other than what Grant said it should be used for. My humble apologies for this waste of bandwidth.
Hey man, no worries, and I'm genuinely sorry it didn't work out for you.
Ship it back to Taurus for repair/replacement, and when you get it back, let it go (that's what gunshows are for), use the money for another pistol, ammo for the one you've got, and/or maybe a training class from a good instructor.
We all learn through experiences like this. I spent about 20 years in the retail end of the firearms industry. I don't own a Taurus because I've seen first hand how they can and will shit the bed.
If you're looking for a 1911 in the sub $1K range, honestly, the Springfield Armory WWII GI or the Springfield Milspec are good guns that can be used as a base to build on as you get the funds and an idea of where you'd like to take it.
John_Wayne777
11-25-09, 17:07
Here's me eating HUMBLE PIE. What a piece of shit this Taurus PT1911 is.
It didn't even make it to the range before the left side safety worked itself loose and came OUT. I'll have to find some way to get something out of it.
I put it back in its case where it will sit until I sell it or trade it off.:o:mad:
I'm sorry I ever tried to defend it for anything other than what Grant said it should be used for. My humble apologies for this waste of bandwidth.
Lessons learned the hard way are often the ones that stick with us most strongly. ;)
Don't beat yourself up over it. Everybody makes a purchase they regret every now and then. I've made several. In fact, that's the reason why a number of us have some fairly strong opinions...we've learned via the touching-the-hot-stove method a few times and it's left some scars. :D
SW-Shooter
11-25-09, 23:29
I really wanted people to be wrong about this gun, but I got what I what paid for. I won't be so quick to defend the next manufacturer that has a questionable history.
I think I will just stick with what I already know. The 1911 will have to wait, I really want a TRP, but that's too steep and right now. I'll keep drooling and dreaming though.
You could get a GI/Mil-Spec to shoot now, and save up for the TRP package from the Springfield Custom Shop. Turnaround is about two months, prices are reasonable, workmanship is supposed to be excellent.
Personally, TRP on a GI/MS would be cooler anyway - I prefer the Colt-style rear serrations (and no fronts) to the TRP.
I really wanted people to be wrong about this gun, but I got what I what paid for. I won't be so quick to defend the next manufacturer that has a questionable history.
I think I will just stick with what I already know. The 1911 will have to wait, I really want a TRP, but that's too steep and right now. I'll keep drooling and dreaming though.
People always want folks like JW777, Templar and myself to be wrong. The problem is that we are connected with THE best firearms instructors in the industry, we have owned just about every gun made and work in the firearms industry.
We are rarely wrong about stuff. :D
C4
Dave Berryhill
11-26-09, 08:54
Keep in mind that most of the guys here who are offering negative opinions about Taurus pistols are not basing their opinions on 1 or 2 samples. From a statistical point of view, saying that "I bought a pistol and it works fine" doesn't mean much other than your particular pistol works ok.
Trainers, gunsmiths and even gun salesmen see a much larger sample of these pistols in action. The trainers' opinions are especially valuable because they see all types of pistols during classes where hundreds (sometimes thousands) of rounds are shot through them, which is more rounds than some people shoot through a pistol during their lifetime. They see which pistols puke and which one run like a Timex.
I don't think that anyone here is trying to convince people to buy Brand C or Brand S because they have a financial interest at stake. If there was a low priced pistol that was solid and reliable, EVERYONE would be jumping on it.
so before I bought the gun I detailed stripped it, in front of the gunstore clerk, after I signed a paper stating I would buy it if I could not get it back together without any extra parts laying around.
That is a smart move, also hilarious that the store made you do that. It's almost like saying "we dont know how it works or goes together so if you take it apart we cant get it back together"
I really wanted people to be wrong about this gun, but I got what I what paid for. I won't be so quick to defend the next manufacturer that has a questionable history.
I think I will just stick with what I already know. The 1911 will have to wait, I really want a TRP, but that's too steep and right now. I'll keep drooling and dreaming though.
I say save up the cash for what you really want instead of buying a mil-spec and sending it out later to be built up into something else.
It will take longer. But it will be worth the wait.
Good luck.
odiesplace
11-26-09, 21:46
For what its worth I bought one a few years back for my kids to shoot instead of my Kimber. It at about 1500 rounds with the only failure being a broken case in the chamber but I blame that on crappy gunshow ammo. It's a decent gun, not one that I would be comfortable staking my life on, but thats just me. Its held up well enough being abused by me and my teenagers. Hope that helps you some
Sucks it didn't work out.
I had one with about 6,000 rounds through it without failure before I blew up the barrel at a uspsa practice.
The safety can be fixed in about 10 seconds with a pair of pliars.
The Taurus was a good value for 500 bucks or so. But for the prices they are now the Springfield loaded and STI guns are a much better value. I run an average of 10,000 a year through my STI Trojan and its help up much better than the Trojan did. Slide to frame fit is still nice and tight.
I wouldn't get a milspec or GI. The 'smithing costs to get those up to par would equal the cost of the gun.
You don't need to spend anywhere near 2,000 bucks for a quality reliable 1911, probably half that, but the cheapest I would go is the Springfield loaded model which can be had for 800ish. Its got the basics you would want on an updated 1911 and they are great and reliable guns.
Mr. Berryhill is 100% correct. I too work in a gunstore part time, and have seen my share of guns with problems. The majority have had Taurus on the gun somewhere. That being said, we also sell Taurus revolvers & pistols, 2 to 1 over any other brand simply because they are generally less expensive. Does that make a difference in the brands of guns we see with problems....absolutely!! I have on my bench, today, a standard stainless PT-1911 that has problems with the offside safety coming out. Instead of trying to fix the problem, since the customer wants Crimson Trace Laser Grips installed I have also ordered one of the ambi-thumb safties from them that has been altered to work with the grips. The saftey is made by Wilson Combat and should take care of that problem.
I bought my PT-1911AR on a whim, if for no other reason to give the gun a good wringing out to hopefully unmask any underlying problems. Other than the loose fit of the barrel bushing to frame, corrected with an Ed Brown bushing, I have experienced no other problems. I am hopeful that I will not experience problems with the Taurus but one never knows!! That being said, I also felt the same way about a Kimber TLE II and a Springfield Loaded I had previously. Since both guns were still under warranty I sent them back to try to have the problems corrected and neither were ever repaired to my satisfaction. I also had a Colt Government Model that gave me problems, but I made the repairs myself. I ended up trading that gun off for another brand of 1911 that I wanted to try. I do not promote Taurus in any way but if someone asks about my experiences, I will gladly tell them.
Why did I spend my money on another Taurus....because I also own 2 PT-145's and a model 415 revolver and a PT-24/7 that have thousands of rounds through them and have had zero problems.
tex
I shot one and the thumb safety promplty broke off.
I have a friend that had one, took several trips back for every other part that would break on it.
You'll hear countless stories like this.
Maybe one you could write off and say "well, it wasnt yours" or "You didnt really give it a shot" or "Thats a sample size of one." But once you see that many many people have had these experiances you have to begin to take the quanity of it as a serious guage of performance.
My issue is this:
You can get a decent 1911 for $400 more. If you are a shooter, someone who takes SD seriously, takes classes, practices, trains, competes, you will easily put twice that money in ammo through it in the first year.
I just dont see the big deal in saving a couple hundred dollars on a gun I will put thousands of dollars in ammo through.
FWIW I carry Wilson CQB, It will eat multiples of its purchase price in ammo in its lifetime and is a firearm I could pass on to my son, and his beyond that.
If you cant afford a decent 1911, and the expensive 45ACP ammo it will eat thats OK. Plenty of people cant. You can effectively protect yourself, train, compete, and practice at 1/4 of the cost with a G19.
I
My issue is this:
You can get a decent 1911 for $400 more. If you are a shooter, someone who takes SD seriously, takes classes, practices, trains, competes, you will easily put twice that money in ammo through it in the first year.
Thats very true.
had a guy I shoot with who had to send his Wilson in to get recoated, the innards reworked, and a new barrel installed after two years of ownership.
The wilson is a 3,000 dollar gun but you gotta figure he had close to 6,000 bucks worth of ammo through it. Thankfully he reloads or it would have been closer to 15,000$
The guns really are the cheap part of shooting, they're just the biggest lump sum.
The price differential between the Taurus 1911 and the SIG 1911 isn't big enough to not get the SIG.
SW-Shooter
12-01-09, 01:27
I'd like to thank all that have responded and my sincerest gratitude and apologies to those that I responded so critically to.
I'm getting older and not always wiser, it's hard to in this ever changing world of tools of the trade. Just when you think you get one platform down and feel confident about it, you realize another oldie but goody has caught your eye. Always remember to do your research before you leap. I'd like to think this has been my worst gun buying mistake, I can hold my head high that it has been my costliest. So I'm not out too bad after-all. Look at all of those .45 GAP guys, hell I'm still just a scrawny teenager compared to those boys. I feel better already.:D
Thanks for not kicking the new guy.
SW-Shooter,
That is part of the reason these forums are so popular......for not "kicking the new guy". I can't tell you how many times I have been somewhere that a valid question was asked about a firearm and the person answering the question was either rude, answered the questions in such a way that the person asking the question felt like an idiot for asking or even answering the question with the wrong answer and knowingly doing so to, in some way punish the asker, for some unknown reason. In the forums, you can get a myriad of answers which gives you a bunch of options to make a educated choice from.
tex45acp
operator77
12-01-09, 15:16
I own a taurus pt 1911 as well as a pt 99 afs
personally I have not had problems with either.
On the 1911, the only reviews I've read were written by John Taffin, Clint Smith,Greg Rodriguez, and Patrick Sweeney, all of whom seem to put it on par with the Para GI expert, and the Springfield GI. As far as problems, an extractor failed at 2000 rounds on Mr Sweeney's test model. Personally i chose the Taurus because of the features not standard with the GI's: full length guide rod & reverse plug, novak "straight eight" sights, serrated slide front, checkered 30 DPI triggerguard, mainspring housing, and front strap, beavertail safety, skeleton serrated trigger, custom fit barrel, and slide, polished feed ramp, lowered and flared ejection port, and beveled mag well. I'm not keen on the extended mag release, or the ambi. saftey, nor do I like the "internal lock" (luckily replacing the hammer circumvents the key lock). I'm not going to say I would choose it over an Ed Brown. But i'm certian you won't find a better 1911 with as many features in it's price range.
(I say that after about a year of looking for one!)
In the end, it's your gun, not anyone elses. Only you know what works for you.
I have had a PT 1911 for almost a year. I have shot around 750 rounds through it without any problems. The Trigger is not bad, crisp. The hammer is not my favorite, certainly not a wilson. The thumb safety could be a little nicer and I don't need one of both sides. I was not paying 2000-3000 for a wilson either. I paid a little over 600 for a new SS PT 1911 AR. I can say that everthing has worked well. It shoots accurately. My biggest complaint is I think the grip safety is to high. If a person has problems with the gun ejecting and firing every so often, One might make sure that they are gripping the grip safety tight enough. Having said that, it can be fixed.
Over all I think it is a good gun for what you are paying for.
I am getting ready to have a trigger job, Have a Wilson Combat Commander Hammer installed, have the grip safety tuned, and Have a Wilson Combat thumb safety installed, when this is done, all internal parts will be tuned together. As well I am going to have the ejector tuned, just to make the gun work smoother, no problems with it but it is cheap to have done. All of this will cost around 180.00 including labor and parts by a 1911 gunsmith guru. This will still be far less than a wilson or Ed Brown or other High in 1911,s.
In my opinon, one just has to decide how much they want to spend and get what you can for that amount of money. There are lemons in all brands. However a 1911 is basicly, two forged steal parts--Frame and Slide. The rest is the parts inside. I believe the most important thing is that the parts that are inside and tuned to each other in saying that I mean all sharp edges have been smooth where parts meet, touch, slide against each other. Springs are set to the proper tension to allow the gun to work at its best.
I am know expert, but have shot guns for most of my life, since I was 6 years old. I have had owned the supposedly best gun made and then the cheaper end. I have liked both and disliked both. To me it comes down to how does the gun fit your style of shooting. Every person is different in how they hold and shoot guns.
My Dad has a safe queen Taurus 1911, but puts all his real use duties on his G17.
I've shot it a couple times, it has well under 200 rounds through it and FTFs are pretty common (Win White Box). He bought it just to have a 1911, so for that, I guess it isn't bad. I would NEVER trust my life to it, while I have no experience with the 1911 platform, for any weapon to FTF under 200 rounds from as a factory weapon is quite sad. Just my $.02, in my limited experiences, although apparently it doesn't mean a thing anyways.
For the several people who have said they put 7 or 800 rounds through it over a period of time without issue...thats not a lot of rounds. I certainly would not be quoting magazine 'reviews' either since they have a vested interest in catering to advertisers. I read all the gun mags too but when you see a review of a weapon and there is a full page ad of the same weapon on the next page..then I take the review with a grain of salt or two...As a long time 1911 guy who no longer troubles with them I cannot imagine why you would buy a low dollar 1911 instead of a Glock, M&P etc if you could only have one.
operator77
12-05-09, 07:09
If we new shooters are to discount reviews of Taurus pistols due to the ad space they purchase in gun magazines, do we apply the same to Ed Brown, Wilson Combat, Para USA, and Kimber?
I can honestly say this is a sore spot for me, since I am new to gun ownership and culture, as well as limited in my funds (law enforcement in my state remains a low paying job) It seems that, according to every Gunshop, forum, and armchair Rambo, every gun I've purchased EVER, has been a piece of crap: my Colt LE 6920 should have been a piston driven Daniel defence. My Taurus pt99 should have been a Baretta 92fs, (which is also said to be inferior, and hence should be a Springfield XD(m) ) and my Taurus PT1911 should have been anything but...
I honestly mean no offence in my rant, and I know full well this forum, and by extension, lifestyle is one of the "gearhead" mentality, but to equate with cars; Not everyone drives a mustang. Yes a mustang can far out perform a Honda accord, but they both get you to work...
As for my Taurus? Both pistols are over the 2000 round mark, with no problems I haven't had with my service weapon (S&W M&P40)
... But I am taking donations from those who believe I'm ill equiped, so that I can order an Ed Brown Special Forces Bobtail... :)
Operator77, when someone makes a gear recommendation here, it's not about getting personal about someone's purchase or choice, it comes from actual experience and history with a company or piece of kit.
Like I said in my previous post, if you buy a Taurus, it's not a guaranteed piece of shit, but the likely hood of getting one that is going to let you down is much higher than it should be.
There are plenty of good choices for defensive handguns that are in the $500 ballpark (Glock, M&P, Beretta 92FS), or even less if you find a good used piece.
I'd also highly doubt you'll have anyone telling you that your choice of a Colt 6920 was a bad one....
Again, people get tied up with personal emotions over gear instead of just looking at it dispassionately.
So, anyway, welcome to M4C, take a look around and enjoy.
If we new shooters are to discount reviews of Taurus pistols due to the ad space they purchase in gun magazines, do we apply the same to Ed Brown, Wilson Combat, Para USA, and Kimber?
I can honestly say this is a sore spot for me, since I am new to gun ownership and culture, as well as limited in my funds (law enforcement in my state remains a low paying job) It seems that, according to every Gunshop, forum, and armchair Rambo, every gun I've purchased EVER, has been a piece of crap: my Colt LE 6920 should have been a piston driven Daniel defence. My Taurus pt99 should have been a Baretta 92fs, (which is also said to be inferior, and hence should be a Springfield XD(m) ) and my Taurus PT1911 should have been anything but...
I honestly mean no offence in my rant, and I know full well this forum, and by extension, lifestyle is one of the "gearhead" mentality, but to equate with cars; Not everyone drives a mustang. Yes a mustang can far out perform a Honda accord, but they both get you to work...
As for my Taurus? Both pistols are over the 2000 round mark, with no problems I haven't had with my service weapon (S&W M&P40)
... But I am taking donations from those who believe I'm ill equiped, so that I can order an Ed Brown Special Forces Bobtail... :)
Gun ads in magazines are just that. Ads. They do not mean that the weapon is a quality one.
Gunwriters typically give GLOWING reviews on guns because they get them for FREE. Also, most gunwriters know next to nothing about guns (or look at the technical specs of a gun and understand what makes a quality gun a quality gun).
So ignore gun ads and gunwriters reviews (generally).
Where to go for REAL reviews of stuff. Well that can be a hard one. One of the things I do a lot is talk to instructors that see a lot of guns go through their classes. This has always worked out well for me.
Is every Oly AR or Taurus pistol a lemon? Of course not. Can you get one of those guns to run well for you? Sure can. You always have to look at the law of averages. How many guns have gone to say 5,000rds in a year? Not that many.
Another thing you can look at is LARGE federal and state LE organizations. Which gun did they choose? Does the FBI use ANY Taurus products? No.
For combat guns (1911), I would stick with WC and EB (or have a well know custom 1911 builder make you one).
For combat guns (polymer), I would stick with Glock, HK and S&W.
For combat guns (metal), I would stick with S&W, SIG (older ones), CZ, HK, and Beretta
For AR's, I would stick with: Colt, Noveske, BCM, CD, S&W, KAC, DD.
C4
Yes. I would not buy anything based on a mag review or ad. There is quite a difference between the brands you mention by the way. I would not own a Kimber or Para and they are at least a level below Wilson or Brown.
If we new shooters are to discount reviews of Taurus pistols due to the ad space they purchase in gun magazines, do we apply the same to Ed Brown, Wilson Combat, Para USA, and Kimber?
... But I am taking donations from those who believe I'm ill equiped, so that I can order an Ed Brown Special Forces Bobtail... :)
John_Wayne777
12-05-09, 12:35
If we new shooters are to discount reviews of Taurus pistols due to the ad space they purchase in gun magazines, do we apply the same to Ed Brown, Wilson Combat, Para USA, and Kimber?
Yes. Adds are next to meaningless. An exception would be if company X took out an add announcing that their model Y had just won a large contract with agency Z after a grueling and comprehensive testing regimen. That would have some value to the consumer.
I can honestly say this is a sore spot for me, since I am new to gun ownership and culture, as well as limited in my funds (law enforcement in my state remains a low paying job) It seems that, according to every Gunshop, forum, and armchair Rambo,
Basically you're talking about unqualified opinions. There are indeed a great number of people out there who are not the least bit bashful about sharing an opinion that exceeds their level of experience by a considerable margin. Internet forums and gunshops are often primary offenders in that category.
M4Carbine.net is a bit different as there are a number of people here with backgrounds and experience that can be verified. Here you'll find a mixture of law enforcement, military, and civilian enthusiasts who put, on average, considerably more rounds downrange every year than you'll find on most other forums.
every gun I've purchased EVER, has been a piece of crap: my Colt LE 6920 should have been a piston driven Daniel defence.
Which should be a clue about the background of the person saying such a thing. In reality the 6920 is the standard by which all other carbines are measured. While every specimen of 6920 isn't perfect, the materials and QC that go into the 6920 are objectively superior to the QC and materials that go into a lot of other rifles on the market. Daniel Defense makes a carbine that, in my opinion, competes nicely with the 6920 by offering the same quality plus some desirable enhancements...but their guns are DI and not piston. :D
My Taurus pt99 should have been a Baretta 92fs, (which is also said to be inferior, and hence should be a Springfield XD(m) ) and my Taurus PT1911 should have been anything but...
Now there is a great deal of truth in this, whether the people offering the opinion had the background to back it up or not. The simple truth is that I have an easier time coming up with specimens of Taurus semi-autos that didn't work than coming up with ones that do work. My formerly favorite gunstore sent LOTS of pistols back to Taurus for major function issues...some of which were never resolved.
...and that's only the people who bothered to shoot the pistols. A great many more did not. To many people a handgun purchase could be mounted behind glass with "BREAK IN CASE OF EMERGENCY" written on it. They are treated much like those dust covered fire extinguishers who were last inspected in 1987 that we've all seen at least once in our lives. I have an uncle, for example, who purchased a .380 Beretta sometime during the Nixon administration. Earlier this year he finally finished off the 50 round box of FMJ ammo that he bought with the pistol. In his experience, his Beretta and the .380 cartridge it fires is great because it's exceeded his needs all these years.
The point is that his experience is exceptionally limited. I've personally put a little over 10,000 rounds downrange through a handgun this year, and I'm on the very shallow end of the pool on this site.
As for my Taurus? Both pistols are over the 2000 round mark, with no problems I haven't had with my service weapon (S&W M&P40)
Here's a key difference: Your M&P is built to have a service life of at least 20,000 rounds. Some parts replacement will be required at regular intervals, but in general that pistol should be good to go for at least 20,000 rounds of relatively trouble free, low maintenance service.
What's the intended lifespan of Taurus pistols?
In the AR market the 6920 is highly regarded because it's built with QC processes that are meant to ensure it works out of the box and it's made from materials that are designed to offer a long service life. Other guns may be cheaper and have better marketing, but when you consider them in aggregate next to 6920's in aggregate they won't offer the lifespan or quality of service that the 6920 (and similarly built carbines) offer.
The same is true in the handgun world. A $523.00 Glock 17/19/26 or $520.00 M&P 9/9C sitting in the gunstore display case is MUCH more likely to offer me a reliable, durable product with good customer service should I encounter a problem than the $510.00 Taurus 24/7, $490.00 PT-911, or $540.00 PT-1911 sitting in the same case. That's just the reality of it. The same is true of a LOT of other pistols in that display case from a number of other manufacturers...including the $1,185.00 Kimber 1911. (All real world prices from a gunstore visit yesterday)
... But I am taking donations from those who believe I'm ill equiped, so that I can order an Ed Brown Special Forces Bobtail... :)
I think a 1911 is a terrible idea for someone in your position. My personal experience with the 1911 (the 1911 was my go-to platform for a number of years) and what I've learned from 1911 experts like Larry Vickers and Ken Hackathorn has pretty much convinced me that 1911's are best suited for those who have lots of money, lots of time, lots of knowledge about the platform and making it function as a sidearm, and enough love for the 1911 that they are willing to put up with the headaches that come with the platform.
Generally police officers (especially those with families) don't have a lot of time most don't have an abundance of money, and damn few 1911 owners actually know how the 1911 works and what it takes to keep one running as a sidearm. (I carried one for years and THOUGHT I knew. I was wrong.) As such I would generally recommend to sticking with platforms that don't require as much investment and TLC as the 1911 platform requires. I would certainly advise against trying to get the benefits of the 1911 platform on the cheap. Trust me: I've tried it. It rarely works out.
There is no such thing as a bad 1911 or 1991A1. Maybe with the exception of the Llama. Think of them as the modular handgun, like the AR platform. You can make them anything you want over time. It will cost you like a previous poster said, but dont do it all at once and you should be fine. Hell I got one of them Philippians ones from Centerfiresystems for 399.00 and it shoots just fine everytime. It is in a bug out bag that I put together for the wife under the spare tire in her Envoy. And the one pictured I got 25 years ago when I was 14 and is a combination Detonics/AMT with Wilson upgrades. http://i415.photobucket.com/albums/pp231/wedge-duncan/detonics.jpg
John_Wayne777
12-07-09, 18:49
There is no such thing as a bad 1911 or 1991A1.
I must respectfully disagree because I've owned a couple of them...and no matter what I did to them I could not make them function properly. I finally ended up selling them at a considerable loss.
William B.
12-07-09, 20:12
Hell I got one of them Philippians ones from Centerfiresystems for 399.00 and it shoots just fine everytime.
Philippians is a book of the Bible. They don't make 1911's
Philippians is a book of the Bible. They don't make 1911's
But if they did, would it shoot Jewish ammo?
(sorry, couldn't resist...)
William B.
12-08-09, 15:22
But if they did, would it shoot Jewish ammo?
(sorry, couldn't resist...)
I'm not sure... ask the guy with the "Philippian" 1911. :D
I must respectfully disagree because I've owned a couple of them...and no matter what I did to them I could not make them function properly. I finally ended up selling them at a considerable loss.
DITTO.
C4
Some of the 1911s on the market have things wrong with them you cannot fix like a mag funnel in the wrong location or pin holes you can not fit any pin into because they are too big.
tracker722
12-08-09, 16:56
*****************************
Outlander Systems
12-13-09, 13:11
I'm in a similar boat as SW-Shooter.
I bought one in 2007, before ever finding this forum. My original goal was to play with it to see if I even liked the platform, and to treat it like a base-gun for upgrades.
For me, personally, the 1911 is the most ergonomic pistol I've laid hands on. That is a big plus.
Here's the skinny:
I've got one. Before I had the opportunity to take the POS to the range, my brother pulled the slide back and the ambi-safety snapped in two. The damned thing hasn't been fired. That was approximately a year ago.
Rather than sell it, I'd prefer to keep it as a truck pistol.
Since I still need to replace the safety (after the incident, my motivation to do ANYTHING with this pistol went into the shitter), I'm considering replacing everything but the frame. At the very least, just dropping some decent guts into it.
At the time I bought it, and even to this day, I know very little about 1911s, except that about 7 years ago I had a Kimber that totally sucked balls, and turned me off of the platform until I bought this Taurus that snapped a safety with something as simple as pulling back the slide. I don't plan on doing any high-volume shooting with the Taurus.
Other than the safety, what parts should I replace and in what order?
I figure this'll be a great way to get started on knowing how to work on a 1911. The beauty of this situation is that if I **** it up, I absolutely do not care.
I took a class with Giles Stock.
When someone would have a POS gun or one he simply did not aprove of (RE: anything DA/SA) he would say
"We could have a little work done on that gun. What you do is have your smith remove the sights, then have him install them on a new gun. Now you can just get rid of that those old parts."
or something to that effect :)
There is no such thing as a bad 1911 or 1991A1.
This isn't true even for the major 1911 brands. My first 1911 was a Colt Combat Commander that's been to Wilson multiple times for reliability work and still can't make it through more than a couple magazines without a variety of FTF/FTE/Stovepipes occurring. I still own the weapon because it was my first 1911, my wife bought it for me, it's a Colt Combat Commander for goodness sakes, and I have a strict don't sell guns rule. It sits in the safe, rarely even going to the range because the performance is so abysmal no matter the magazine or ammo I use in it.
Every manufacturer (including semi-custom houses) has the potential to produce a good or bad pistol occasionally. You just want to buy from a manufacturer whose deck is stacked in the good product direction. That ain't Taurus.
SW-Shooter
12-13-09, 20:50
Sent it back to Taurus, they "fixed" it.
Traded it straight across for a NIB Glock 23, never looked back!:D
I know that the Taurus is supposedly worth a few $ more than the Glock, but :rolleyes: whatever.
fadedtrends
01-17-10, 23:07
First off if I offend anyone I don't care. Say all you want about taurus, Im sure alot of it is because you've spent alot of money on your 1911, I've owned a PT1911 for eight months, my brother has had one for a little over a year we live in different states bought them at different dealers, and out of the 1400+ rounds I've put through mine I haven't experience one failure with factory ammo, I've had 2 failure to feed on hand loads, (bullet seated to high) I cannot say the same for my kimber or my glock 19 or G23 or my XD-9 or XD-45 or my springfield 1911 Loaded. Out of the box it was as accurate as a defensive handgun needs to be. My brother has had zero failures with factory ammo (doesn't handload so no report there) and has nearly 700rnds though his. say what you will about fit and finish, one lesson that should be learned, lets drop my cheap taurus in the mud now lets drop your expensive tight tolerance wilson/kimber what have you and see who's gun has fewer problems, it's the AK vs M16 argument. does my finish rub off from the holster yes, does it make me winch when it does no.
You nay sayers are like corvette drivers, I could take a cheaper tuned Japanese car that still costs less, out perform you in every venue and you'd still call my car a P.O.S. well it maybe cheaper but I don't compensate for what I lack by spending money on something that is clearly not worth the price.
Buying a cheap gun that doesn't work is alot easier to swallow than buying a way over priced gun that has issues you over look and make excuses for.
Bottom line I'd trust my life to my taurus. Anybody who goes and buys a gun and trusts their life to it before some serious range time is a fool I don't care how much you spend.
Btw the comment was made about police/fbi/military not using taurus products, Because taurus doesn't submit their guns for testing to any of those agencies so your point is what???? I don't see alot of police agencies that issue guns in the $1000+ range either so what does that tell you? in fact most agencies issue the plastic guns does that mean 1911's in general suck????
Taurus is what it is, like it or leave it. I shoot my guns not worship them like gods.
Anybody who spends over $1000 dollars on a defensive pistol is a bigger idiot than the people who buy a taurus.
Anyway tomorrow I'm going to the range and I'm gonna watch the custom gun guys make their excuses on why their guns malfunctioned, probably a certain box of ammo. idiots.
Now all you wanna be gun guru's come dispell my myths on why Wilson combat, Ed Brown and Kimber reign supreme and cast me out as a heretic. I also own a bushmaster M4 tell me how and why that is a P.O.S. too please.
Most of you who've spent an obcene amount on a pistol will justify its problems even if it shot you in the foot. I mean that had to be because I was shooting cheap ammo.
Either way I don't care, if you've had a bad experience boohoo for you, now shut up.
First off if I offend anyone I don't care.
(...)
Anybody who spends over $1000 dollars on a defensive pistol is a bigger idiot than the people who buy a taurus.
(...)
I also own a bushmaster M4 tell me how and why that is a P.O.S. too please.
(...)
Either way I don't care, if you've had a bad experience boohoo for you, now shut up.
http://9x19mm.com/photoalbum/albums/userpics/keeptalking.jpg
Business_Casual
01-18-10, 08:13
I am an old 1911 guy from a long way back so before I bought the gun I detailed stripped it, in front of the gunstore clerk, after I signed a paper stating I would buy it if I could not get it back together without any extra parts laying around.
Was that a pre-printed form? I've never been to a gunstore where they had that policy and form handy.
M_P
Uhhhhhh.......
Who 'fit' that grip safety? Looks quite uncomfortable.
The ears of the frame protrude beneath the surface of the grip safety itself.
And what is the purpose of the grip tape on the underside of the dustcover?
Wouldn't that hinder a draw from a holster?
Just curious, not bashing.
:confused:
There is no such thing as a bad 1911 or 1991A1. Maybe with the exception of the Llama. Think of them as the modular handgun, like the AR platform. You can make them anything you want over time. It will cost you like a previous poster said, but dont do it all at once and you should be fine. Hell I got one of them Philippians ones from Centerfiresystems for 399.00 and it shoots just fine everytime. It is in a bug out bag that I put together for the wife under the spare tire in her Envoy. And the one pictured I got 25 years ago when I was 14 and is a combination Detonics/AMT with Wilson upgrades. http://i415.photobucket.com/albums/pp231/wedge-duncan/detonics.jpg
Yea Taurus sucks, my Lorcin is 103248024739324802-32 times more accurate (I can hit oxygen bottles from 200 yards) and more reliable (I heard the Secret Squirrel Recon Rangers carry them all over the world).
Pass the tinfoil please.
907_bushmaster
09-22-11, 12:13
i own a pt1911 and a pt92af
i cant say much to the pt92,but as far as the 1911..i can say anything i want about it becuase i have this ****ing wick chunk of steel for 2 yrs and have dam near 7k of ammo thro it,i live in alaska i hunt fish swimm hike and mudd with my pt1911, it does have some aftermarket w.c parts in it and mags..but it by far is the farthest thing from trash..having seid that iam gonna shoot myself in the foot,it is a gun that is hit or miss,hit it and its great for the price miss it and have a nightmare.i hit it and i love it i wouldnt trade it for any brand period.no way in hell would i take a nighthawk,wc,colt,sig any high end 1911 through anything like my pt becuase those spendy 1911 are holster/safe queens..i bought cheap and built up as stupid as this sounds i have a strong bond with my 1911,it has never let me down ever..tho it needs a duracoat it was black now its kinda blackish??? with silver trim hahahaha:p
+1 On the grip safety.
I absolutely DESPISE the Taurus grip safety fit and "Contour".
It makes it not only uncomfortable, but if you have the pistol at any angle or dont have an iron grip on it, then it wont fire.
I imagine they tried to contour it for looks but it simply doesnt work.
A guy I used to shoot with owns one, along with many Kimber
1911''s, the Taurus just doesnt stand up.
I agree with another poster....its not the worst one out there, the Rock Island I think takes the cake IMHO.
I'm with 907 Operator. I also live in Alaska and take my PT1911 or my G21 on all my outdoors adventures. My Taurus has well over 2K rounds through her and still goes bang every time. I have not replaced one part on her yet. I would not have chosen the Taurus but it was a gift from the wifey and she knew no better at the time (God bless her). I cant say I'm disapointed though. It has been a great gun thus far. I prefer her to my old Springfield.
907_bushmaster
09-24-11, 12:31
I'm with 907 Operator. I also live in Alaska and take my PT1911 or my G21 on all my outdoors adventures. My Taurus has well over 2K rounds through her and still goes bang every time. I have not replaced one part on her yet. I would not have chosen the Taurus but it was a gift from the wifey and she knew no better at the time (God bless her). I cant say I'm disapointed though. It has been a great gun thus far. I prefer her to my old Springfield.
iam not saying its amazing,but what i am saying is i couldnt let any of you guys bash my pt1911..i JUST havnt seen these problems that some other owners and some other 1911 nazi's are speaking of..i just havnt call it luck good matience idc but dont call it trash..i wanna start beating on my pt92 so i can say i own 2 great taurus guns but winter is coming and idk,i dont do alot of shooting:suicide2:
Why the hatred? I've heard of finish, and hammer follow issues but don't other manufacturers 1911 style firearms have their(or had) problems from time to time?
Aside from all of the Taurus bashing, why do you consider this 1911 a no go? Please provide some substantiation. Please don't post the typical Taurus bashing rhetoric.
I've not heard of one instance of a 1911 KB from this model.
ETA: I understand this is a low price point 1911, and will not compete with a 2K 1911.
When I worked in gun retail, we had so many of them with problems right out of the box that I could never trust one. Just all sorts of strange stuff. Barrel link pins cut so long you needed a vice and a mallet to get the slide off, etc.
The one we put on the range was always breaking- sights falling off, safety falling out, etc. They're trash.
We had much better results with the ones out of the Phillipines- they're actually a decent quality product, especially for the price. We had fewer Rock Islands come back to us than we did Kimbers- and we sold a lot more Rock Islands. The Rock Islands are kind of basic- if you want something nicer, try a Metro Arms. We had great reviews on those, and a couple of our customers with Kimbers and Nighthawks commented on how close they were in accuracy and general workmanship.
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