View Full Version : LEO's Please forgive Me
Gunfighter.45
11-25-09, 08:08
Good God guys I've been seeing alot and I mean ALOT of over weight LEO's. Shouldn't there be some type of fitness standard? I mean please forgive me but doesn't that make the DEPT look like shit? Those guys better watch their hearts man.
Good God guys I've been seeing alot and I mean ALOT of over weight LEO's. Shouldn't there be some type of fitness stanard? I mean please forgive me but doesn't that make the DEPT look like shit? Those guys better watch their hearts man.
Agreed. I'm LEO and I work out 3-4 times a week, not only for me, but for my fello officers.
Makes no sense AT ALL to have to pass a PT test when you leave POST, and then nothing after that. Some dept's requirea a PT test, and kudos to them. Mine doesn't and most don't. I do have to do a test for SWAT twice a year is all.
dwhitehorne
11-25-09, 11:02
Unfortuately it is a sign of the times. My agency has a PT test you must pass to get hired. A few years ago they dropped the body fat section of the test for new hires because it was weeding out to many applicants. I always thought that was what it was suppose to do?? David
Unfortuately it is a sign of the times. My agency has a PT test you must pass to get hired. A few years ago they dropped the body fat section of the test for new hires because it was weeding out to many applicants. I always thought that was what it was suppose to do?? David
I dont agree with a body fat test, but I do agree with pt standards.
In my town just about every cop could also play on a football team. They run a tight ship here.
My former Dept had a bi-annual PT test, but there were still guys who I KNOW coldn't pass it, but were still working the road. I don't know how though.
-RD62
I was once told by a very old and very large(re; FAT<his word) sheriffs deputy, that my young butt had better not run as he was too old and too fat to chase me so he would just have to shoot me:eek:. I can't say for sure but I don't think he was kidding, I do know that I never wanted to find out and realized that a life of crime was not for me.
On a more serious note I also wonder what are the requirements/restrictions in regards to an officiers physical condition for the various depts. I do know that here in Hillsborough county FL the SOs new hires have to be tobaco free for a min or two years and the physical requirements almost guarentee that one has to be in good to great shape. How strickly they enforce the reg, I do not know.
I will also say that I see way more obviously obese city of Tampa police officiers than I do county sheriffs deputies. I know that if I were on the job I would prefer to have a partner and co-workers in great condition, for all of our sake.
Hickory Shampoo
11-25-09, 15:10
A police force is (ideally) a cross-section of the community it serves. This includes body types, in addition to race, sex, etc. I agree it looks bad when someone you're relying on for protection and service can hardly make it up the sidewalk without getting winded, but it's a fact of life. Especially with age. One bad lift and the back goes out. Awkward landing after jumping over a fence. Add to that the work conditions. Finding relatively-healthy food at night is difficult, at best. Especially in smaller jurisdictions.
The department I work for initiated PT standards for officers a few years back. It's just not possible to get a 4000+ department up to a standard like that. The aforementioned PT test ended up being a joke. Anyone with even slightly elevated blood pressure, injury or a wicked hangnail got exempted. Today, an attempt at the annual PT test involves adding your name to the list and filling out a card that says you tried. If they made it mandatory to pass the test or be put on the rubber gun squad, there are over 2000 officers that could...hell....would retire and walk today. That would be a nightmare of epic proportions.
Personally, after nine years, I've managed to keep myself fit enough that I've only had to go back to supply once for the next pant size up. (34 to a 36, for the curious).
woodandsteel
11-25-09, 16:42
Personally, after nine years, I've managed to keep myself fit enough that I've only had to go back to supply once for the next pant size up. (34 to a 36, for the curious).
I had to also go from size 34 to 36. I have committed myself to getting back into shape. My wife is going on maternity leave in a couple of weeks. So, that leaves me with 12 weeks of no excuses for not going to the gym. Too bad I have to watch what I eat over the holidays.
We do PT testing once a year. The standards are not tough to meet. If for some reason you cannot pass, they will give you time to try again. If you still can't pass, they will hook you up with one of our PT Instructors who will try to help our goal. if you still can't pass, it will then go to the Chief's office to see if any further action should be taken.
PT and fitness standards are a struggle for both the admin and the line.
Trends show that agencies with them have fewer injuries, pay fewer claims, employees use less sick time and have longer terms of service. On the downside, they shrink the applicant pool. They also add disciplinary issues and potential labor claims and litigation.
For the line, troops struggling with them will have lower morale, and face disciplinary actions. They will also require off-duty time and discipline to maintain. The answer is a balance of standards that provides at least a minimum standard of appearance and fitness for duty. What those minimums should be is a moving target.
I like programs that provide incentives for fitness, like extra leave days, additional pay. With cops being as cheap as we are, waving a buck or two can help. Then again, it's a down economy. Applicant pools for government jobs are getting more competitive again. Standards can come back up, and agencies can cut dead weight that won't get with them.
woodandsteel
11-25-09, 21:03
I should add that we are allowed to work out on duty for one hour, three times a week. If we don't pass our PT, that one hour workout could become mandatory.
CarlosDJackal
11-25-09, 21:07
Good God guys I've been seeing alot and I mean ALOT of over weight LEO's. Shouldn't there be some type of fitness stanard? I mean please forgive me but doesn't that make the DEPT look like shit? Those guys better watch their hearts man.
For most agencies the fitness standards only exist while attending the Academy. While some agencies may offer bonuses to those who do well in some sort of fitness scores. Most do not have a program in place (as sad as that may be).
Belmont31R
11-25-09, 21:15
Im not LEO but weight doesn't always correlate to a persons ability. We had quite a few guys fail their weigh in but had no problems passing their PT test. Some guys are just built stocky and no matter what they do they will fall into the overweight category. They could ruck all day and night while the "skinny" so called fit people were out of energy and sucking.
Now obese fat with rolls all over the place is another story...they can shed some pounds and it will be beneficial to them. I dont see why there is no standard in some departments.
Im not LEO but weight doesn't always correlate to a persons ability.
Exactly. This is why if any sort of "standard" is put in place, it should consist of some form of generic PT test and not a BMI or body fat percentage calculation.
Our agency follows POPS standards to get into our Academy, but once we're in it's much tougher. In 12wks in the Academy I went from running 3-4miles/wk to about 25. I can look at a 10k now and say "bring it on." I also lost 10lbs the first week of academy. We would do crossfit types of workouts, and it was becoming the norm to meet at 0630 every Friday for that workout. Now out of training my workout regiment is much more well rounded than curls, chinups, bench press, situps, run.
Paladin4415
11-25-09, 21:52
A police force is (ideally) a cross-section of the community it serves. This includes body types, in addition to race, sex, etc.
Were you really serious with this statement?
A police force is (ideally) made up of the most qualified individuals, regardless of body types, race, gender, etc. Anything else is just politically correct garbage.
Were you really serious with this statement?
A police force is (ideally) made up of the most qualified individuals, regardless of body types, race, gender, etc. Anything else is just politically correct garbage.
Don't be discriminating against the fat and lazy. If somebody can get hired because they are black or a female then I should get hired too. Now gimme my damn affirmative action donut.
:D
RogerinTPA
11-25-09, 23:11
The LEOs in my AO (FL State Police, Sheriff's Office) are in pretty good shape. Most look ex military, but I have see some in other areas and other states, that would probably have a heart attack if things turned to shit. I would think that such a career path would promote individual fitness and healthy living, even if the department didn't have a PT/Hgt & Wht standard.
Cascades236
11-26-09, 01:21
We have a physical standard to get hired, after that only the SWAT team has regular physical testing. Luckily we have a very active police department. A large majority of our department have off duty activities that are in some way physically demanding. Be it skiing, running etc.
There are a number of contributing factors that may lead to weight gain for those that are less disciplined. Sometimes we have to eat on the run or we don't eat at all. Some weeks we work, go home sleep and work again. Sometimes we get dragged thru the mud on a frivalous lawsuit for two years (stress,) Some of us will be on patrol until we retire...all of these can lead to fat retention.
That said, I find time to workout 3 out of 4 days, sometimes that means not seeing my sweetheart at all that day. I owe it to my family, my partners, the public and myself. One day I may be called upon to take the boogie-man into custody, I train for that day.
Without reading the entire thread....
It comes down to $, my friends. Everything costs money to a dept. Training costs a lot of money. Ensuring that everyone meets a standard, costs money. If a dept is going to require every sworn to pass a PT test, then they sure better offer paid time, and facilities for, their officers to work out. No paid workout time, and no available facilities, and the unions can trash any PT test requirement.
Not that I agree with it, but that is reality. I keep fit enough to do the job, but there are some that are there for a paycheck. This is true in every profession.
Hickory Shampoo
11-26-09, 07:17
Were you really serious with this statement?
A police force is (ideally) made up of the most qualified individuals, regardless of body types, race, gender, etc. Anything else is just politically correct garbage.
I figured the qualified part was obvious. My point was you can't hope to staff a large, local department with nothing but perfectly fit officers. It may work for smaller agencies, but you'd have to drop other standards drastically to find several thousand applicants with ideal body types.
RogerinTPA
11-26-09, 08:19
Without reading the entire thread....
It comes down to $, my friends. Everything costs money to a dept. Training costs a lot of money. Ensuring that everyone meets a standard, costs money. If a dept is going to require every sworn to pass a PT test, then they sure better offer paid time, and facilities for, their officers to work out. No paid workout time, and no available facilities, and the unions can trash any PT test requirement.
Not that I agree with it, but that is reality. I keep fit enough to do the job, but there are some that are there for a paycheck. This is true in every profession.
Completely agree. Even if they didn't have a PT standard, it would be money well spent to have a gym inside a station, to promote physical fitness, stress relief and diet, to better prepare a LEO to better perform his/hers' job as well as lower health care cost.
dwhitehorne
11-26-09, 08:59
For most agencies the fitness standards only exist while attending the Academy. While some agencies may offer bonuses to those who do well in some sort of fitness scores. Most do not have a program in place (as sad as that may be).
Out test is suppose to be administered every 6 months. If you get a 450 or better out of possible 500 point you get a paid day off award. I love it. Free leave that never expires. :D David
Only pt we get is our physical fitness test on the second or third day at Glynco, hence the reason for the Grimmace-shaped officers.:D
Locally I see members of the admin team having to deal with the problem personally much more than the officer on duty. Most cops on the street are in good shape compared to 20 years ago. A lot of that may be due to prior service in the military, etc. There is definitely more awareness.
The desk sitters have the problem - they simply can't and don't burn calories like they used to - but probably haven't adjusted their diet to compensate. Risk no longer factors in as a daily part of the routine, either.
Now, there are other factors, but one slanted view is that overweight officers are a result of the management culture and a direct testimony of it's leadership. I say that having been in those shoes in the Reserves 22 years.
In a "civilian" leadership position, I'm sure it's more difficult.
With heath care packages and the obesity epidemic, this will get attended to in the fine print. I would expect incentives in health care - like the "Complete this survey for a 10% reduction in premium!" that I participated in.
Unfortunately for them, the obese are easier to spot than say, those with PTSD. The condition will get attention.
A community will get the law enforcement personnel and service that they desire. Through planning and intent, or lack or caring and inability to pay for well qualified folks.
It is much the same with firearms qualifications and training. Just what do you want and how much are you willing to pay to get it?
Training programs of any sort cost money. Elevated standards, sometimes any standards, are a cost to maintain. All of that has a bearing on the quality of police services.
If you really want a change, get elected to your local government entity and work to actually get that change. Go to where the responsibility is at and change it from there.
Good God guys I've been seeing alot and I mean ALOT of over weight LEO's. Shouldn't there be some type of fitness standard? I mean please forgive me but doesn't that make the DEPT look like shit? Those guys better watch their hearts man.
Yes....
My PD has one of the best Gyms in the City. We also have a smaller gym in a northern precinct and the city is building another precinct with a gym in it. They are open to police 24/7. I can count on one hand the officers I see in the gym. People will find a way not to work out.
A community will get the law enforcement personnel and service that they desire. Through planning and intent, or lack or caring and inability to pay for well qualified folks.
It is much the same with firearms qualifications and training. Just what do you want and how much are you willing to pay to get it?
Training programs of any sort cost money. Elevated standards, sometimes any standards, are a cost to maintain. All of that has a bearing on the quality of police services.
If you really want a change, get elected to your local government entity and work to actually get that change. Go to where the responsibility is at and change it from there.
I like this answer....
in an unrelated note, a good friend of mine is HPD, he always stayed in awesome shape, he got a couple of promotions, changed depts so he works a lot of undercover, he actually had to "soften up" a bit so he didnt look like a cop :p
I helped him when i could, it wasnt pretty :eek: lots of beers :D
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