Gas piston AR choice? [Archive] - M4Carbine.net Forums

adamb390

11-29-09, 14:57

Hey everyone i have been a member of this forum for a while, and this will be my first post, i mostly just read and gather info from what people say on hear, but i need some advice from yall because i know yall know ur stuff. I just sold my old bushmaster m4 a3 carbine to one of my friends, it was always kept clean after shooting, and never gave me any problems whatsoever. The reason i sold it is because i got to reading about some of the nicer ars, and also ars with the piston system, and instantly started craving one.:D My question is, and yes i have searched, and read the differences between both, which would be the better choice between the LWRCI M6 A2, and the LMT CQB MRP 16" Defender with the piston system? I have only held, and looked at the LMT MRP piston gun, i love the solid feel of it, the ergo grip, and the fact that u dont have to take the top of the rail off for cleaning. My local gun shop has one in stock, but it has some major scratches down to the bare metal where u take the piston and op rod out, and also on the left side of the receiver, it almost looks like the metal is uneven, i wouldnt say pitted, but not even and smooth like most ars ive seen. If i choose the lmt i would probably get another gun shop to order it directly from LMT, to hopefully get one that was alot smoother and without so many imperfections. The LWRCI will be my other choice, im really not to crazy about the top rail coming off with two screws, even though i know its a good design. From what ive read the LWRCI M6 A2 seems to be maybe the best, but im really not sure. Could yall please give some suggestions on which u would choose, and why if u were to purchase one of these. Im just not loaded with money, and this will be my only ar, and i wanna make the right decision. Thanks!

Ak44

11-29-09, 15:08

"Best" or "Better" is really subjective of the person who tells you their favorite or what they prefer. I have no experience with any LMT rifles, but do with an LWRC PSD 6.8 I really enjoy the fact that it is gas piston and runs very cool by the chamber and bolt and such. I made the mistake of getting a 6.8 upper when I should of gotten a 5.56 upper. I would say which one looks better to you and your wallet.

LettersFromEarth

11-29-09, 15:23

Welcome to M4C. The LMT is a nice weapon. I don't own one myself and truthfuly I don't think I want to. Go with LWRC. The M6A2 is what many fans of the brand seem to want to snuggle with for some reason but I think the M6A1 w/14.7 perm muzzle device is the better choice at least as far as my idea of aesthetics go. Good luck.

rightwingmaniac

11-29-09, 15:52

youre playing with fire with them words here!! let the piston vs. di war begin!! j/k.. i own the m6a2 in 6.8. its a nice weapon. my favorite of ALL my ar's. the price of ammo sucks really bad though.

i suggest not limiting yourself to just an ar. there are couple different routes you can go piston wise... the xcr, scar and acr... me, im waiting for the scar heavy to come out early next year... the xcr is one nice piece of work though too.

in my opinion go xcr if your wallet is thin, if not, wait for the scar h. it will be worth it.

halo2304

11-29-09, 18:57

I have no experience with piston-driven ARs, but it's a neat concept, much like the ZM/Para rifles. If I were to go the piston route, I'd take rightwing's advice or wait for a standardized piston design to take hold. What happens if something breaks, especially if the company decides to drop the model and/or design?

m4fun

11-29-09, 20:15

I went down the LWRC path, both 10.5" and 16" - I liked the benefits of a piston for 10.5" while firing in full auto, with a suppressor - cooler, cleaner, etc, etc. At the time only POF and LWRC were the real players and folks like Ares were just starting with there retro-fit pistons. I researched both the POF and LWRC designs and liked what I read about LWRC. Did not want to worry about adjust the gas setting when switching between suppressor or not, thinner profile of the LWRC and other things I cannot remember.

That said I tended to stick with what worked, and when my 10.5" went down, the LWRC folks were great with the fix. Bot my LWRCs are great and easy to clean ;) I think they are all catching up these days.

M16MANIAC

11-29-09, 20:18

jbo723

11-30-09, 09:45

I have both and if I had to suggest one given your situation, I would go with the LMT.
As stated above, you can change from piston to DI and vise versa along with caliber swaps..the biggest flaw at this point is propietary parts so with the LMT, having the Di option down the road would be beneficial from a parts stanpoint IMO..

dtibbals

11-30-09, 10:51

I have a POF and an LWRC. The LWRC is a great gun and I would recommend it to anyone.
I like the LMT options, if you get the gas piston it can be changed back to DI with a barrel and BCG swap. Also you can change calibers just as easy. I have not owned or fired LMT but they have a great reputation.
I don't think you can go wrong with either weapon.

I bought the LMT piston for the same reasons as above. When you look at the price they are both pretty close but with the LMT I can change caliber very easily and quickly, I don't have to adjust the gas system since its self regulating (unlike the ruger and others system), the MRP rail is the nicest out there and one solid piece, has good factory sights and the SOPMOD stock (i do usually put troy or Magpul MBUS on them). I have a DI MRP and a piston. I am doing a new build and will probably purchase an LMT piston upper. I like the feel of the rifle, very solid build, well known brand and will retain its value.

I like the fact that if I want to change calibers I simply change the barrel and bolt in 5 minutes. An earlier poster said he wished he had bought his upper in 5.56 and with the LMT with a small investment he could have both.

I have not shot an LWRC but I hear good things about them. Another nice thing about LMT is if you choose to buy a second rifle at some time that is one of their DI MRP rifles and decide you want to change it to a piston you can do that pretty easily. Then you can swap parts out between the two.

Good luck! Don't think you can really go wrong either way!

PS My LMT rifles are cosmetically perfect when I purchased them.

David

CarlosDJackal

11-30-09, 11:11

I have 2 LWRC uppers; a 10.5-inch M6A1 and a 12.7-inch M6A3. I've put more than 10,000 rounds through the M6A1 and just over 2,500 rounds through the M6A3.

I had some issues with the M6A1 that were promptly addressed by the guys from LWRC (bad recoil spring and broken BCG key bolts). I have not has a single malfunction with the M6A3 that was not caused by a bad magazine (stuck follower) or user error (blocked ejection port during support-arm shooting).

FWIW.

adamb390

11-30-09, 11:21

Thanks for all the suggestions guys, from what ive heard both r top notch ars. The ar that i really wanted from the start has been the LMT since i handled one of the DI MRP guns a while back. I mentioned something to a salesman, in the one main gun shop i buy from, about having a piston driven LMT, and a few weeks later i walked in, and there was one on the shelf. The LMT he had, like i described above, had marring around where u take the operating rod out and also had the not extremely smooth receiver(almost like body work with uneven bondo). The other DI MRP beside it was flawless. I really love everything about the LMT, especially the rail that is super sturdy and doesnt come apart, guess the only thing that made me wonder was the one piston lmt i saw was not nearly as smooth as all the pictures i see on the net of them. I guess if i do go with the LMT, ill just order the rifle straight from LMT through another gun shop. I havent completely made my mind up, but more suggestions r welcome!:D

Failure2Stop

11-30-09, 12:12

Comparing prices between the two and their similar DI equivalents raises some interesting comparisons.

The LWRC M6A2 prices close to high-end DI offerings such as the Noveske Recce and the KAC SR15.

The LMT prices close to the upper/middle DI guns like the Daniel Defense M4 and the Noveske N4 Light Recce.

Given what kind of DI guns the money can buy, I would be more tempted by the LMT. LWRC may make a nice rifle, but so does Noveske, and until someone can prove that the benefit of a gas-tappet AR outweighs the known and proven performance of the Noveskes, I am in no hurry to spend my money elsewhere.

But that's just me, and is not a DI/Piston argument, but a cost to benefit analysis of my needs based on my skill and my experience with this genre of weapon.

William B.

11-30-09, 15:05

M16MANIAC

11-30-09, 15:51

What about your POF?

It has never had a single malfuntion and has about 3000 rounds through it. The only thing I don't like is the rail height. The piston system is the most simple design out of all the gas piston guns and seems very robust. There are no springs to break and has only 3 parts that can be removed from the gas block.
If not for the rail I would buy again without hesitation.
LWRC 6.8
POF 5.56
http://i449.photobucket.com/albums/qq212/KAB12869/GunsofFun033.jpg

Bowser

11-30-09, 15:53

Neither. I'd go addax tactical, uses the PWS system and you get more configuration choices from Chris, like barrels and rails. Plus he makes the bulldog improved PWS brake!

William B.

11-30-09, 15:57

It has never had a single malfuntion and has about 3000 rounds through it. The only thing I don't like is the rail height. The piston system is the most simple design out of all the gas piston guns and seems very robust. There are no springs to break and has only 3 parts that can be removed from the gas block.
If not for the rail I would buy again without hesitation.

Thanks for the pic. Those are sweet looking firearms. My buddy has a POF that I've handled, but I've never fired it and I don't think he's put it through its paces either.

strambo

12-01-09, 05:49

Buy the flawless DI MRP. Register the lower and add a 12" piston conversion!

variablebinary

12-01-09, 06:14

d90king

12-01-09, 07:01

I own a MRP and a M6A3. I have been very pleasantly surprised at how well the LWRCI has performed to date, but I cant give you a hard use report as of yet. The LMT MRP has never missed a beat, and their quality is unsurpassed IMHO.

I come from the mindset that the real benefits of a piston AR, is when shooting shorties, FA with a can, so I don't think you will find a big difference between a 16" piston vs a DI rifle.

Both companies make fine weapons not sure that one is better than the other... I do like what LWRCI did with their one piece BCG...

M6A3
http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t5/d90king/DSCN1225.jpg

dtibbals

12-01-09, 11:24

Given the recent HK416/MR556 news, I would sit tight till SHOT.

It's not a stretch to say that a civilian HK416 will alter the industry in a big way.

I own an LWRC, and I like it a lot, but to be honest, I wouldnt have even bothered with it if I could have gotten an HK if the price wasnt insane

I am a huge HK guy and will buy one of each caliber if we can actually buy them. Given the track record of HK releasing anything on time I would not sit around and wait till they did. If they do the price is going to be in SCAR or higher range, it is HK after all. Also with the current anti gunners in power we all have to look at potential shorter time lines in the sense of how long we have to get the things we want. If I was the OP I would hate to sit around and wait for a rifle that may or may not get released, the cost could be high and then if there are any new laws what is available will sky rocket in price and you probably won't be able to get what you want.

So I would buy a quality weapon now. If HK comes out with their rifle and you want one either buy one or sell your other rifle and replace it with the HK. At least you have a good quality rifle no matter what.

adamb390

12-01-09, 12:10

Hey yall thanks for the pictures and suggestions, im really still just thinking about the LMT or the LWRCI. I think from what ive heard, and my initial feeling, after seeing and handling the LMT, im leaning more in that direction. But feel free to continue the suggestions, and pictures!

2risky

12-05-09, 09:03

When I bought my LWRC I wanted to compare the LWRC and LMT, but the difficulty was finding either! I got lucky and I'm very happy with it. No functional issues at all and a quality built weapon. It's amazing how clean the bolt is after firing. Good luck with your choice.

JSK

12-05-09, 16:34

LWRC A2

Kchen986

12-05-09, 16:49

If you do LWRC go with the M6A2-S (stretch for more rail space and longer recoil impulse) or the M6A3.

I'm very happy with mine. No carrier tilt, no cam pin wear. Very reliable.

http://x05.xanga.com/fe8f505768c30257652362/m205043553.jpg

Features:

Ferritic Nitrocarburized (sp?) barrel and piston parts for enhanced wear resistance and lubricity
Self-regulating piston cup which is also self-cleaning (scrubs against nozzle to remove excess carbon)
Teflon-Nickel plated Bolt carrier for lubricity
One piece bolt carrier
Custom Cam pin to avoid Cam-pin-receiver wear.
MIAD & VLTOR E-mod stock

--------------

To be fair however, I hear the LWRCs recoil is harsher than the LMTs, but I have yet to fire a LMT.

Good luck with your choice,
-K

adamb390

12-05-09, 21:12

Hey yall, thanks for the replies, i called LMT a few days ago and they said if i ordered one itd be May before i got it, so i started lookin for the LWRC. I found a dealer a short drive away, but his guns didnt have the new one piece bolt carrier or QC sling attachment in the rail. I know i coulda upgraded, but if im going to be paying that much, i kinda want it already on the rifle. So today i go back just lookin at the LMT i told yall was kinda rough looking, with small uneven spots in the aluminum on the side of the receiver, and some pretty rough scratches. The LMT is honestly the rifle i had wanted all along, no offence to LWRC or anything, i just love the way the rail is made, and how solid it feels. Now i know yall r gona laugh, but i never thought to ask the salesman that i always do business with, if they had anymore in the back,i thought because of the backordered guns, and everyone on the net talking about having a hard time getting one, that was the only one they had, and i was wrong. I thought well i ll just go ask, and when i did he went and checked, and came out with a new freakin LMT piston gun that had no scratches or imperfections like the other one. So today i came home with the gun i had wanted from the start, and a big chunk taken outta my pocket. ;) When i got home though, it was getting dark, so i didnt have time to shoot it. I have taken the stock off and apart, and also split the upper and lower and took the bolt carrier out, and the piston rod out of the front to make sure everything was right, and to familiarize myself with the rifle. Tomorrow i should get to test it out a little!:D Thanks for the suggestions and pictures yall!

dtibbals

12-05-09, 21:38

You made a great choice! I ordered one June of last year and it came in a few weeks ago. I have it set up for now but will most likely be adding a Nightforce 1-4 optic but using an EOtech for now. Still need to add a light, going to put on a SF LED on it, probably the new scout that runs on 1 CR123A.

Here are some pics of my new rifle:

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j88/dtchicago/photo7.jpg

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j88/dtchicago/photo8.jpg

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j88/dtchicago/photo5.jpg

thmpr

12-06-09, 00:35

After owning both models: LMT and LWRC, it is a very hard choice for a new comer. Both had no issues, MOA accuracy, and aesthetically gorgeous. The main pro going for LMT is the quick barrel change....

lawusmc0844

12-06-09, 14:35

I own a LWRC M6A2 upper and LMT MRP piston upper. Both are excellent piston systems in my opinion, even though I don't have high round counts through them (need to save money and stuck in PRKali!) Both have their own strengths & weaknesses. This is my comparison of the two uppers

LWRC M6A2

PROS
- 1/7 cold hammer forged ferritic nitrocarburized barrel
- Slick full-auto Teflon Nickel BCG with raised grooves
- Comes with Troy front and rear BUIS
- Well designed piston system, low profile
- Top rail is continuous with flat-top, no loss of zero in my experience when removed

CONS
- Expensive
- Top rail must be removed to access the piston
- 3 piece piston can be a bitch to remove
- Rail could be longer
- Gas pushed out of piston cup gets all over the front sight and anything else attached near the cup's location
- Mine came with the older two-piece BCG, and the staking job does not look GTG to me. I plan to get the new one piece soon
- Heavier

LMT MRP Piston

PROS
- Monolithic rail
- Quick change barrel & gas system capability provides unmatched versatility
- 2 piece piston is easily removed from the front
- Comes with LMT's Tactical latch charging handle
- BCG is one piece, has O ring insert and like all LMT products, well-made
- Lighter
- Less expensive

CONS
- Current availability (Ordered mine direct from LMT earlier this year, received it in October)
- Mine came with semi-auto BCG (LMT doesn't sell F/A BCGs to non-LE/mil contracts?)
- Since BCG doesn't look designed for anti-tilt, I am concerned if it can cause future issues (I've fired only 400rds through it and no gouges in my receiver extension so far)
- Does not come with BUIS
- Very tight fit (emailed LMT and they said they purposely machined them for a tight fit. It fits my KD lower with some effort but does not want to close down on my Daniel Defense lower. I guess this will appeal to the "fit and finish" crowd :rolleyes:)

strambo

12-06-09, 23:09

Since BCG doesn't look designed for anti-tilt,It is, it has the raised portion in the rear.

adamb390

12-06-09, 23:34

Well i got to shoot it today, took it, and my fairly new colt rail gun out to run a few rounds through em. The LMT ran flawlessly, no jams or hangups in a 120rds.,which i know aint alot to most guys on here lol. Put about 50 something through the rail gun with only one failure for the slide to lock fully forward, but ran smoothly other than that! I did take the op rod outta the rifle when i got through shooting, and wiped the small bit of carbon buildup off of the end of the rod. It was sure alot easier than cleaning the whole bolt and carrier like i had to do on my old DI Bushmaster. I know ill still have to clean the carrier and bolt but this should cut down alot on doing it so often.......plus i was outta CLP, or i would have cause im ticky bout my stuff:D