View Full Version : Photojournalism advise
I know we have some good photo guys here so I thought some might have some advise. I am 32 & looking at going back to college for photojournalism. My last career has kind of burned me out & right now my wife can support us. If any of you are in the field & have any advise please feel free to post it or drop me a message. Also wanting to get a camera just for myself (so I don't keep fighting with the wife for it) & wondering what you guys would recommend. Thanks for the help.
militarymoron
11-30-09, 16:12
any concerns on your wife's part about you being away a lot on travel? i have a couple of photojournalist friends and they're single and always gone on travel or an assignment.
any concerns on your wife's part about you being away a lot on travel? i have a couple of photojournalist friends and they're single and always gone on travel or an assignment.
Not really. I love to on the road. I view home as a place to eat, sleep & enjoy some other activities, & my wife knows this. That being said if I was gone for 3 months & then home a day & gone 3 months over & over she might have a problem with it.
Gutshot John
11-30-09, 16:20
Journalism is a brutally tough job market to get into. Print journalism is going the way of the do-do and no one is hiring and everyone is getting laid off.
Even in the best of times starting photojournalists are amongst the lowest paid positions out there even if you find steady work. Most work free-lance which is a grind.
Seems like fun but the glamor will wear off quickly.
Journalism is a brutally tough job market to get into. Print journalism is going the way of the do-do and no one is hiring and everyone is getting laid off.
Even in the best of times starting photojournalists are amongst the lowest paid positions out there even if you find steady work. Most work free-lance which is a grind.
Seems like fun but the glamor will wear off quickly.
Really from what I've seen they seem to do ok. Sure not lots of money but pretty good. I have seen several openings around where I live for openings so I wasn't real worried about opening. However it may be just a spike. Thanks for the heads up I will continue to do research on the field & may have consider Mass Comunications for a wider career field.
photosniper
11-30-09, 17:47
If you like long hours, no pay, lots of boredom separated by brief moments of action, then photojournalism is for you. Honestly, I've been a photojournalist for 22 years, I speak from experience when I say, find something else to do for a career and do photography on the side.
Print media, newspapers and magazines mainly, have taken a downward tumble (or should I say death spiral) and there are not many jobs out there. For any entry level job, there may be 100 or more applicants, all willing to work for next to nothing. Most entry level PJ jobs are less than $25 grand a year. Like I said, I've been doing this for more than 20 years and I make just under $40 grand a year. And if you don't have a bachelor's degree, at the least, you won't even be considered for most positions.
PJ is a lot more than shooting photos these days. Multi-media is keeping journalism alive and you MUST be able to shoot quality video and collect audio. Add to that the need to be extremely capable on the computer to edit stills and video, transmit photos, write blogs etc.
There is a small market for photojournalism on-line with digital magazines and blogs but most don't pay or pay very little for photography. With the advances in digital photography and cameras, everyone can take a good photo nowadays. And since paying less is more important than high quality, mediocre photographers are taking away business from the people who truly make amazing images.
Hmm. two negative posts in a row. Well perhaps I may need to rethink my path. thanks for the info guys.
I've worked as a PJ & television journalist and I can only say, "DON'T DO IT!" Print journalism is a dying art. Lay off are huge. Most papers try to hire the same demographic percentages in house to have a parallel representation of the demographic of their market. To do this they hire the most educated people to write which are usually white males, followed by white females and then fill the PJ dept with minorities which makes it VERY difficult if you are a white male. The PJs are usually the most liberal crusaders you will ever meet and seriously discriminate against conservatives. I worked at one paper where I was the only non-vegan in the PJ dept and they were all giving me crap about the evils of the meat industries while they were all eating the morning donuts:eek: Hypocrites!
The papers often screw over the PJs once you reach the highest pay scale, by jerking you around till you are willing to be bought off for early retirement so they can hire a young CHEAP PJ to replace you. There is little future in it unless you are a black, female, lesbian, muslim, transexual with a peg leg (because they can say they employ 6 demographics with one person:p)
Missouri has one of the top PJ schools in the country if not the best. UT Austin is VERY GOOD also. I am a Nikon guy, but today I would go Canon. Good Luck!
photosniper
12-01-09, 12:12
I've worked as a PJ & television journalist and I can only say, "DON'T DO IT!" Print journalism is a dying art. Lay off are huge. Most papers try to hire the same demographic percentages in house to have a parallel representation of the demographic of their market. To do this they hire the most educated people to write which are usually white males, followed by white females and then fill the PJ dept with minorities which makes it VERY difficult if you are a white male. The PJs are usually the most liberal crusaders you will ever meet and seriously discriminate against conservatives. I worked at one paper where I was the only non-vegan in the PJ dept and they were all giving me crap about the evils of the meat industries while they were all eating the morning donuts:eek: Hypocrites!
The papers often screw over the PJs once you reach the highest pay scale, by jerking you around till you are willing to be bought off for early retirement so they can hire a young CHEAP PJ to replace you. There is little future in it unless you are a black, female, lesbian, muslim, transexual with a peg leg (because they can say they employ 6 demographics with one person:p)
Missouri has one of the top PJ schools in the country if not the best. UT Austin is VERY GOOD also. I am a Nikon guy, but today I would go Canon. Good Luck!
That's pretty accurate, especially the description of PJ's being liberal crusaders. Most of the younger generation PJ's are just that. They are the kids who where dressed in black and part of the Anarchy groups while they were in high school. There are some old-school guys like myself left, especially in the more rural newspapers.
As for the Nikon/Canon thing, that debate is about as furious as the 9 vs 45, Glock vs M&P and all the other debates. Personally, Nikon's newest bodies kick the shit out of anything Canon has on the market right now.
And since paying less is more important than high quality, mediocre photographers are taking away business from the people who truly make amazing images.
This is very true, I started photography as a hobby and ended up getting paid pretty good for weddings, birthdays, engagements, etc...2 years ago. It was nice to have extra cash for a weekend thing. Now I'm having trouble even finding interest. It seems more and more will do free photos for my portfolio guys are popping up in my area. Sucks....
Amongst my PJ buddies (from the manual focus, prime lens toting, film era:eek:) we call ourselves "endangered curmudgeons". The first time I worked with Judy Walgren when she was at the Dallas Morning News she had just won her Pulitzer and we were having dinner with some other Pultzer PJs and I was spouting my drivel about how to cover something accurately and balanced as a code of journalistic integrity, yadah, yadah & you'd thought I yelled out "Bush Akbar" while praying at Mecca:eek::p I was attacked for my naivete... and told that in the new age of photojournalism "you must pick a side!". I said, "that is called documentary photography: photography with a POINT OF VIEW ans it is NOT journalism". Pretty much cut my throat with that lot:p
I guess now they call it Advocacy Journalism and it seems to have replaced almost all balanced journalism:mad:
I have Nikkor lenses from 17 to 1000 and still have my F3, N90 & F5 and still haven't made the jump to Digital. I'm really interested in Canon's Live View features. I love my F3 best:D
Spoon...you might go out and take some stunning shots of sunsets and sunrises behind some pumpjacks and workover rigs for your portfloio and then contact the independent oil operators and such in the area to see if they want shots of "THEIR" rigs or tanks, etc. with their logo on them. Then plan the shot and on a good morning or evening go get the shot. They loves those in their homes and offices and to give as gifts and they will pay $$$ for a "great" shot. You get enough of those sunsets around the Permian Basin to knock out several a year if your diligent.
Weddings pay better in Midland ;)(Go Bulldogs!:p)
Well to be honest this is all a little discouraging. I appreciate all the info guys. With big decisions it pays to get advise. Does anyone feel that the market might change in a few years? Also, what about balanced or even conservative media making a comeback? I look around & it seems that sales & health care are the only growing fields. Sadly neither of those interest me. Perhaps naive, but I was really hoping to find something I enjoy doing & try to make a career at it. I'm really getting into nature & survival, but I have not found a way to make money in either really. Well thanks again everyone. I'll just keep trying to figure this out.
FromMyColdDeadHand
12-02-09, 01:35
You might be able to supplement with some stock photography work. Shoot, shoot, shoot as you are doing other PJ stuff and that might help pay the bills. I put 15 pics on iStock in 2007 that I made about $170 bucks this year. I just don't have time to post more.
It seems being a pro photographer is like being a pro shooter or porn. There are a lot of people that think they can do it, get into it for cut rate pay, decide they can't make a living and get out. Sure there are people who do it and make a nice living, but not that many.
i held a pretty well paying photography job at 17, working upstate new york making almost 6k a month but it was a seasonal job. i realized alot of photography can be pretty seasonal so i gave it up. that was 12 years ago. one thing i was reminded on a regular basis, everyone had an elective photo class in jr college, its never mentioned what their grade was though.
militarymoron
12-02-09, 08:49
I'm really interested in Canon's Live View features. I love my F3 best:D
most of nikon's new DSLRs have live view.
photosniper
12-02-09, 12:42
You might be able to supplement with some stock photography work. Shoot, shoot, shoot as you are doing other PJ stuff and that might help pay the bills. I put 15 pics on iStock in 2007 that I made about $170 bucks this year. I just don't have time to post more.
It seems being a pro photographer is like being a pro shooter or porn. There are a lot of people that think they can do it, get into it for cut rate pay, decide they can't make a living and get out. Sure there are people who do it and make a nice living, but not that many.
Not to pick on you but agencies like iStock are part of the reason why there is no money in photojournalism anymore. Companies like that do not adhere to industry standard licensing fees, usually operating on a higher volume basis at a much, much lower cost.
Spade - No, I don't see any resurgence of photojournalism with the current trend of "community journalism" becoming so popular. Why pay a pro photog when you can get it for free? And with the on-line market, there is very little desire for bankrolling high quality, in-depth photojournalism.
Personally, I'm moving in other directions (personal defense training among other things) and have launched a "tactical" photography website (which is still in the works). My goal is to be able to provide high quality training multi-media to tac teams and the police/tactical unit/special ops industry in general.
photosniper
12-02-09, 12:46
I have Nikkor lenses from 17 to 1000 and still have my F3, N90 & F5 and still haven't made the jump to Digital. I'm really interested in Canon's Live View features. I love my F3 best:D
Tellin ya bro, Nikon is the SHIT right now. The D300, D700 and D3 series all have live view, though for me it's uses are very limited. Sucks the crap out of the batteries too.
I was always a big fan of the F2A with the MD-2 motor. Five pounds of steel that worked well as a camera or to hammer in fence posts.
If you want to do photography, go commercial, and know the right people. PJ work, as already stated is dead or working on a slow death.
The glamor of traveling the world on someone elses dime to shoot and write is long past, and in the cases where it still happens, its because the guys are well established and working for large companies.
Listen to what the guys are telling you in this thread.
Also wanting to get a camera just for myself (so I don't keep fighting with the wife for it) & wondering what you guys would recommend. Thanks for the help.
I love my Canon equipment, and wouldn't dream of changing. As far as making a recommendation, without knowing your price and what your plans are to do with it, it would be a guessing game. Canon and Nikon are both putting out stellar cameras, but getting the right model and glass can be important. I shoot with everything from an old P&S to a 1DSmkIII, its all a matter of what I'm looking to do.
If you want to do photography, go commercial, and know the right people. PJ work, as already stated is dead or working on a slow death.
The glamor of traveling the world on someone elses dime to shoot and write is long past, and in the cases where it still happens, its because the guys are well established and working for large companies.
Listen to what the guys are telling you in this thread.
Stick, if going commercial would you suggest taking photog with an art degree then?
Tellin ya bro, Nikon is the SHIT right now. The D300, D700 and D3 series all have live view, though for me it's uses are very limited. Sucks the crap out of the batteries too.
I was always a big fan of the F2A with the MD-2 motor. Five pounds of steel that worked well as a camera or to hammer in fence posts.
LOL, my F3 with its MD4 motordrive will stop M855 no problem:p
If you want to do photography, go commercial, and know the right people. PJ work, as already stated is dead or working on a slow death.
The glamor of traveling the world on someone elses dime to shoot and write is long past, and in the cases where it still happens, its because the guys are well established and working for large companies.
Listen to what the guys are telling you in this thread.
Stick is right here, PJ wannabes and photogs are all falling out of the trees right now and not making the cut. It has NEVER paid that well. Successful commercial photogs can make big $.
Most end users are happy with mediocrity these days and so all the wannabes dumping images into fly by night stock agencies have put everyone out of business. Hell, try and shoot wildlife... for get it... you are competing with retired multi-millionaires with more gear and time than you ever dreamed of having spending 6-12 months a year in game parks top lodges burning millions of images with their digital bodies and selling all their images at a huge loss and looking like a hero to their photo club back in Germany or where ever... if they get a photo published here or there.
If you want to go commercial then remember its ALL about self marketing and FINDING work. If you count on the work finding you forget it. You must HUSTLE your butt off to find clients.
Unless your a top wedding photographer in debutante-land its a tough life that takes a special personality and drive to make it happen.
Stick, if going commercial would you suggest taking photog with an art degree then?
No idea, I'm a full time city cop who does 30-50hrs a week of photography as a side gig. I only work in one area of photography, so I'm not a good source of info for your question.
A BJ (Bachelors in Journalism) with an emphasis in photojournalism is a very difficult degree because you have to take the exact same classes as a journalism student...lots of writing...and then in addition the photography part which is VERY time consuming and you will HAVE to work at the school newspaper which is very time consuming. It is the best way to become a PJ, but a waste if you are going commercial. If you want to go commercial the best way is either going to someplace like RIT and or working as an assistant to a commercial photographer. You might try assisting for awhile to see if you like the work. Many photographers will only hire assistants that do not want to be photographers so as not to create competition for themselves and give away all there hard earned trade secrets. Big Time photographers will hire wannabes, but often the local struggling photographers hire non-photographers only and go thru them pretty fast.
This is a VERY competitive dog-eat-dog world!
Some tips...your portfolio is only as good as your weakest image (if all you have is 5 good ones only present 5 good ones)...editors that only compliment your work and have no advice are really blowing you off and think your work isn't worth their time and editors that critique your work ruthlessly think your work is worthy of their time and the ruthless critique should be taken as a great compliment! Good Luck!
A BJ (Bachelors in Journalism) with an emphasis in photojournalism is a very difficult degree because you have to take the exact same classes as a journalism student...lots of writing...and then in addition the photography part which is VERY time consuming and you will HAVE to work at the school newspaper which is very time consuming. It is the best way to become a PJ, but a waste if you are going commercial. If you want to go commercial the best way is either going to someplace like RIT and or working as an assistant to a commercial photographer. You might try assisting for awhile to see if you like the work. Many photographers will only hire assistants that do not want to be photographers so as not to create competition for themselves and give away all there hard earned trade secrets. Big Time photographers will hire wannabes, but often the local struggling photographers hire non-photographers only and go thru them pretty fast.
This is a VERY competitive dog-eat-dog world!
Some tips...your portfolio is only as good as your weakest image (if all you have is 5 good ones only present 5 good ones)...editors that only compliment your work and have no advice are really blowing you off and think your work isn't worth their time and editors that critique your work ruthlessly think your work is worthy of their time and the ruthless critique should be taken as a great compliment! Good Luck!
Thanks for the help & the info.
photosniper
12-06-09, 10:52
Spade, if you are really interested in a career in photography, look to the medical side. There is a ton of money to be made for photographers in that field and there is little competition. Unlike commercial, wedding, portrait, pj, and other specialties, medical photography really has nothing to do with personal creativity and everything to do with being extremely technically proficient. Plus, you won't have every Tom, Dick and Harry and soccer mom with a camera competing with you.
RTI offers a pretty good medical photography course and I believe that John Hopkins still offers a med photo course. If I were to do it all over again, that is that route I'd take.
It's been pointed out that commercial photogs make big $$'s but the thing is, like PJ and wedding photography, there is a very small percentage of photographers making a very large percentage of the money. I doubt if 1 out of 1000 photographers truly makes a living solely on photography. I work full time at top scale (union shop) at a daily newspaper and still have to whore myself out to get by, and that is with 20+ years experience as a photog.
That is a great recommendation. Finding a niche speciality is a great way to make $ and create job security. Obviously photographing DoDo Birds as a specialty won't cut it but finding a specialty like medical photography which is just going to be a growth industry is a good idea. I have a buddy who specializes in photographing machinery and computer systems and does very well and it gives him the cushion to do personal documentary projects. Of course getting a medical degree (nursing) is a better idea;)
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