View Full Version : New Recruites: No visable tattoo allowed on saluting arm.
My dad just called me (at work) to ask if I had been watching/listening to any news. He said that there are new rules that have some folks really upset about the fact that now any new recruite can not join the service if they have tattoos past 3" from the shoulder. Is this really something new? I thought they would pay for your ink removal under thier health care thing, but basically thought that you were not allowed any ink on lower arms for a while?
I can't locate any news release, and I know my father listens to AM radio KDKA 1020 in Pittsburgh, but even there I can't find anything.
Any of you heard any new changes in policy about ink on incoming recruites?
OK, I think I found what he is talking about:
Google this:
Tattoo keeps irwin teen out of air force
The top result will be KDKA news, just like I thought it would be. He has something on his forearm inked. My PC here at work will not let me see the video, so I can't hear what they are saying.
I was under the impression that that stuff required waivers already and has for quite a while. Maybe they are not granting the waivers anymore since they have been flooded with new applicants.
http://kdka.com/video?id=65851@kdka.dayport.com
This video says that it is a new rule put in place over the Turkey day holiday. Also, the AF says that it is a mistake and that she should be grandfathered in.
If you google her name you will find a slew of articles about it, most of them local Pittsburgh PA news sources: Her name is: Kayla Bresnan
Kayla- Thanks for your willingness to serve.
That being said, if you want in the AF, go get it removed. Make better decisions about what you do to your body. Contemplate...intensely...the future impact of such things on a variety of aspects of your life and potential livelihood.
I am tattooed, overly so by some standards, and I have no problem with this or any other employment rules or decisions based on excluding people due to ink.
As a tattooed person, I think that most tattoo (and the location on the body chosen for same) decisions are very indicative of the mindset of the person, and I firmly believe that barring a tragic life changing event people do NOT fundamentally change who they are and the old argument of "well I got it when I was young(er) and stupid" holds no water. Chances are very good that the same ****ed up priorities that caused them to get the bad ink are still present no matter how much time has passed.
I have tattoos as well even on my saluting arm. I fail to see how this impact(ed) my ability to do my job.
I have tattoos as well even on my saluting arm. I fail to see how this impact(ed) my ability to do my job.
I agree. They should be looking at other information to find someone unfit for duty. I have a few tattoos and the majority of my fellow marines have even more then i do. This alone is no indication of how somebody will perform in the military.
Semper Fi
Tim
I have always felt that if you are physically able to serve and wish to serve then you should be able to. Sure you have to cut your hair, etc but there are reasons for that. A tattoo is not something you can easily change and has no effect on your ability to serve.
theblackknight
12-02-09, 14:51
Its not a MCO, but tattoos below the sleeve line are said to exlude a Marine for most special duties such as Embassy Guard,Recruiter and Drill Instructor. All your command can do is strongly advise you not to.
A former AF recruiter in my office was talking about the new rule yesterday. It apparently came out over the weekend and those with ink visible in basically a T-shirt will not be allowed to enter the AF - contract or not. Again, it goes back to decision making - or lack there of. With that said, I don't have problems with folks with tattoos.
Spooky
That's pretty crazy when I enlisted like 8 years ago they just asked if mine was gang or race related. They also wanted to make my dress uniform would cover everything. My recruiter had tattoos on both the inside & outside of his forearms. I come from a tattooed family, but understand societies flinch when comes to tattoos on the face or hands. That type of tattooing usually denotes a certain lack of respect for authority
I am tattooed, overly so by some standards, and I have no problem with this or any other employment rules or decisions based on excluding people due to ink.
As a tattooed person, I think that most tattoo (and the location on the body chosen for same) decisions are very indicative of the mindset of the person, and I firmly believe that barring a tragic life changing event people do NOT fundamentally change who they are and the old argument of "well I got it when I was young(er) and stupid" holds no water. Chances are very good that the same ****ed up priorities that caused them to get the bad ink are still present no matter how much time has passed.
We're an interesting reversal of what most would expect, Rob.
I'm often inclined to give someone some benefit of the doubt on what I might otherwise think if a noteworthy period of time or life circumstance had passed since they got it. This is usually the position of those more like yourself. (I have no tatts, and don't care for them on others.)
Further, you'd usually find someone with tatts like yourself, esp several, to be more opposed to regulation and/or exclusion because of them.
On job impact...
To say that tatts don't change someone's ability to their job isn't wholly correct. It depends on their business. The symbolic speech that a tatt imparts can adversely impact business outcomes by creating or reinforcing negative stereotypes. In truth, it can positively impact it as well if that appearance appeals to the customer. All depends on the product, the customer, and the prevailing demographic.
Its not a MCO, but tattoos below the sleeve line are said to exlude a Marine for most special duties such as Embassy Guard,Recruiter and Drill Instructor. All your command can do is strongly advise you not to.
Not the case anymore, my friend. Any tattoos larger than your palm or visible while wearing service charlies, ie. above the collar and on hands is against MCO. Not sure which one, but definitely goes straight into a page eleven and documented. Violation of this order will get you at least a page 11 or njp and a wonder RE-4 reenlisment code. The code prevents you from reenlisting in any active component of the armed services... Even the army. WTF? My brother who was in the Corps with me had his reenlistment denied after six years and several meritorious citations and promotions because of a tattoo on the back of his neck. So, he went to LAPD where he has to cover it up everyday. At least they took him!
I new a guy who wanted in the Marines bad enough he had a guy take belt sander to the back of his head to remove a tattoo
Belmont31R
12-02-09, 19:44
Hmm...I thought the Army had changed the rules to allow neck tats. I know I saw a PVT at Lewis just before I got out, and he had one right next to his ear.
Personally I dont care so long as they are not visible in dress uniform.
One of my buddies in my Squad had a huge tattoo on his chest before coming in and had to get it lasered off to go to Bootcamp. Right after I got back from Iraq (Spring 08) they passed the new MCO and had to document all the guys who had tattoos on their arms to be grandfathered in...if you could see tattoos wearing pt gear you had to get documented. They consider a single tattoo on the upper arm as a "sleeve" kinda ridiculous. As stated before I don't see how ink effects my job performance, the Marine Corps is always striving for a Professional look. I don't care what anyone says there's Garrison Marines and Field Marines :D
Hmm...I thought the Army had changed the rules to allow neck tats. I know I saw a PVT at Lewis just before I got out, and he had one right next to his ear.
I was talking to a Soldier yesterday whose neck tats were visible above the collar of his ACUs.
Wow. A big change from back in the day when everybody went out and got a tattoo right after bootcamp. I must be getting old. There are a few of us who have managed to go on and become successful professionals even with a few tattoos.
Thank God I went Navy.............
God Bless the Navy, someone's gotta heal Marines and give us a ride to where we need to go! :D
dookie1481
12-03-09, 01:11
Not the case anymore, my friend. Any tattoos larger than your palm or visible while wearing service charlies, ie. above the collar and on hands is against MCO. Not sure which one, but definitely goes straight into a page eleven and documented. Violation of this order will get you at least a page 11 or njp and a wonder RE-4 reenlisment code. The code prevents you from reenlisting in any active component of the armed services... Even the army. WTF? My brother who was in the Corps with me had his reenlistment denied after six years and several meritorious citations and promotions because of a tattoo on the back of his neck. So, he went to LAPD where he has to cover it up everyday. At least they took him!
My old team leader was stuck in DEP for almost 1.5 years waiting to get a tattoo removed from the back of his neck, and this was '98.
Jay
Getting a tattoo in a highly visible place at a young age is a big mistake in my opinion. You never know where life will lead you or what path your career may take, and a tattoo that say's "**** the Man" on your forearm will probably close some doors for you.
That being said I got a "regrettable" tattoo when I was 19 but it was on my upper arm and easily concealed. I'm currently getting it covered with a complete japanese style half sleeve :D. Having just turned 40 maybe it's a mid-life thing but I've always wanted to do it and am in a place where I'm old enough not to give a shit what other people think about it, and I'm settled in my career.
Thank God I went Navy.............
The Navy still requires wavers for ink below the T-shirt level.
Outlander Systems
12-03-09, 10:32
The military is free to choose whatever they want to do. I think ASVAB scores, psych profiles, and PT evaluations are more indicative of a soldier's performance than appearance, but I don't make the rules.
Anyway, barred from reenlistment in '01 and '03. Multiple recruiters informed me that regardless of concealment, Army policy at those times wouldn't allow any tattoos depicting...firearms. :rolleyes:
http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/9108/ttak2.jpg
http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/8986/ttak3.jpg
right now I'm working towards the Navy in the DEP program. I have one large tattoo that covers the elbow side of my left forearm, one tattoo over the right bicep from top of shoulder to just above the elbow, one on the back and one on the right inside wrist, which is slightly visible when in long shirt.
The Marine Corps recruiter had to go through all sorts of trouble to get my tattoos approved, the Navy recruiter looked at me with one eyebrow raised and said "you're fine"!
i can understand if the tattoo is in some way profound, but that kids tattoo was in no way profound.
Also to do this to him the DAY before shipping out is just plain wrong. Apparently the AF is doing this to all recruits, whether they have their contract or not?
They MUST not forget that the contract goes both ways! If the AF approves your tattoo and gives you a contract, they shouldn't be able to completely do a 180 and revoke it or pull it back.
plain stupid IMO.
Dunno if it actually was true but a Salt dog told me about some punk Marine who was clearly a bad egg, got "F*** You" tattoo'd on the ridge of his hand, so everytime he would salute an officer his tattoo would do the greeting. Then again this could of been just some scuttlebutt :D
JBecker 72
12-03-09, 16:56
Dunno if it actually was true but a Salt dog told me about some punk Marine who was clearly a bad egg, got "F*** You" tattoo'd on the ridge of his hand, so everytime he would salute an officer his tattoo would do the greeting. Then again this could of been just some scuttlebutt :D
I heard about "a guy" with the same tattoo when I was in the Army.
I'm calling shenanigans. :D
It would be pretty ridiculous if someone had that :D
JBecker 72
12-03-09, 18:49
It would be pretty ridiculous if someone had that :D
I think its something most of us enlisted guys wanted to say at one point or another in our career, and that tattoo would have fit the bill to a T.
:D
How much hell would I have gotten in basic for a peace sign on my arm (not visible with a t-shirt)?
RogerinTPA
12-03-09, 20:54
I think as much as Tats are very mainstream in our society, the military has always been more, if not extremely conservative to some if not all visible Tats, depending on your individual era. When I was in the 82d Abn Div, it was quite common to see Soldiers with AIRBORNE or SGT ROCK tats on there shoulders and forearms. In some HS/LD units, it could, and can be, a disqualifies and exclusion from certain classified missions. They are probably getting more and more recruits with Tats, and some higher ups are becoming preoccupied with what they would consider an unmilitary and undisciplined look. With the economy the way it is, and people climbing the fence to get a steady paycheck, they can afford to be more selective for the sake of that branch's image.
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