View Full Version : Barrel choice
I am trying to finish up a build, and I am not too sure on the barrel yet. In my mind, I cant get it out of my head that I need a 1" diameter barrel to get anything accurate, but the prices are right for the BCM uppers right now, and I cant seem to convince myself that the cfh BCM barrels will be accurate enough.
The longest range I go to will be 300, and minute of bad guy is all I really care about, but its nice to have some tight groups now and again with some heavy ammo.
Any suggestions, or stick with the BCM middy deals?
The barrel is kind of the heart of the build. What do you plan on using this for?
-B
it will be my first complete 5.56 AR, and I kind of want it to be a do-all gun.
Ideally 16" mid length with a low-pro gas block and a rifle length rail, rail mounted sights (thinking centurion HK style or Troy), an aimpoint with a magnifier and I would also have a decent scope for longer range that would later be mounted on a more purpose built gun, but for the time being, i want a do all gun. The weight isnt so much an issue, but if the standard hammer forged barrels are not going to limit me, theres no reason to use a 37 pound match barrel i guess...
I'd suggest a 16 inch HBAR (aka government style), Sabre Defense makes some nice ones, there are lots of custom barrels out there as well.
I'd suggest a 16 inch HBAR (aka government style), Sabre Defense makes some nice ones, there are lots of custom barrels out there as well.
so a govt profile?
so a govt profile?Yes, it's a bit heavier and it usually has a mid-length gas system on it. There are heavier barrels, but in a 16 inch I don't think they're necessary. But, on the other hand, if you want one...SAbre makes what they call an SPR, you can see it at the top of the page here (http://www.sabredefence.com/commercial.php?focus=barrel), in a variety of lengths.
That's not to say don't go shopping at other locations, I posted that because it's handy and has good photos of the various barrels they make.
Fastpat,
Are you pointing out the difference between hbar configurations and gov't profiled barrels?
Hbar usually refers to heavy barrels, which are heavy under the handguards. Gov't profile usually means the lighter profile under the handguards.
http://rockriverarms.com/images/products/bblcm09.gif
From Rock River Arm's website:
For example, the top barrel is more of a gov't profile, the 2nd down is more of a hbar profile.
Orionz06,
If you were looking for an all around, general purpose gun, something like a BCM Mid-length would probably do well. These might shoot well, but they aren't precision target guns as they are built to be durable combat grade guns. That is where you have to define your accuracy requirements well(what you want to do with it) for someone to give good suggestions. If you are looking for a bit more precision, then you might want to move up to a cut stainless barrel. Something like this for example. (http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-SS410-16-Mid-Length-Upper-Receiver-Group-p/bcm-urg-mid16%20ss410.htm)
Remember, precision is going to be the repeatability of your system. That means you, the ammo, the weapon, the optic... and will be determined by your group size. Accuracy is based on the ability for you to hit your target. You need a balance of both.
FWIW: FYI Called into RRA & Barrels are on "INDEFINITE BACKORDER" Rep. Said havent shipped individual barrel assemblies in about 1-1 1/2 years time. Anything shipping was from past BO being filled from dealers.
Just dont want anyone waiting thinking its coming. Rep. did confirm the website will be updated once stock is replenished.
I am trying to finish up a build, and I am not too sure on the barrel yet. In my mind, I cant get it out of my head that I need a 1" diameter barrel to get anything accurate, but the prices are right for the BCM uppers right now, and I cant seem to convince myself that the cfh BCM barrels will be accurate enough.
The longest range I go to will be 300, and minute of bad guy is all I really care about, but its nice to have some tight groups now and again with some heavy ammo.
Any suggestions, or stick with the BCM middy deals?
Stick with BCM. They makes one of the best combat uppers out there.
C4
I'd suggest a 16 inch HBAR (aka government style), Sabre Defense makes some nice ones, there are lots of custom barrels out there as well.
HBAR barrels suck. No need for all the extra weight.
C4
FWIW: FYI Called into RRA & Barrels are on "INDEFINITE BACKORDER" Rep. Said havent shipped individual barrel assemblies in about 1-1 1/2 time. Anything shipping was from past BO being filled from dealers.
Just dont want anyone waiting thinking its coming. Rep. did confirm the website will be updated once stock is replenished.
Why would anyone order a RRA barrel (let alone wait for one)???
C4
This is the Sabre Defense barrel that will be a part of the upper I have on order.
http://images54.fotki.com/v555/photos/5/41655/8123914/Sabre_M5_barrel-vi.jpg
This is what Sabre calls a heavy barrel, one of them any way.
http://images17.fotki.com/v372/photos/5/41655/8123914/Heavybarrel-vi.jpg
Why would anyone order a RRA barrel (let alone wait for one)???
C4 Agree, Reason I posted above. Lot better options for your $$$. Should have posted a link to another source, BCM :D
Fastpat,
Orionz06,
If you were looking for an all around, general purpose gun, something like a BCM Mid-length would probably do well. These might shoot well, but they aren't precision target guns as they are built to be durable combat grade guns. That is where you have to define your accuracy requirements well(what you want to do with it) for someone to give good suggestions. If you are looking for a bit more precision, then you might want to move up to a cut stainless barrel. Something like this for example. (http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-SS410-16-Mid-Length-Upper-Receiver-Group-p/bcm-urg-mid16%20ss410.htm)
Remember, precision is going to be the repeatability of your system. That means you, the ammo, the weapon, the optic... and will be determined by your group size. Accuracy is based on the ability for you to hit your target. You need a balance of both.
I guess the better answer is I want a very accurate combat barrel, and will consider a little extra weight if it is more likely to improve my chances...
Stick with BCM. They makes one of the best combat uppers out there.
C4
so i have heard... would you consider their CFH barrels to be more accurate, or just more durable?
so i have heard... would you consider their CFH barrels to be more accurate, or just more durable?
More accurate.
C4
Agree, Reason I posted above. Lot better options for your $$$. Should have posted a link to another source, BCM :D
If you notice, I did post a link to BCM and mentioned their uppers. The picture was the first found in a quick internet search showing the difference between HBAR like profiles and gov't profiles. Conveniently, Rock River Arms had them both in once picture. The purpose of that section of my post was to use a picture to illustrate and hopefully clarify the discussion at hand. Rock River Arms was only mentioned as it is their website, their photograph. I do not see where Rock River Arms was mentioned at all in this thread as a source for barrels until you brought up their lack of availability.
If you notice, I did post a link to BCM and mentioned their uppers. The picture was the first found in a quick internet search showing the difference between HBAR like profiles and gov't profiles. Conveniently, Rock River Arms had them both in once picture. The purpose of that section of my post was to use a picture to illustrate and hopefully clarify the discussion at hand. Rock River Arms was only mentioned as it is their website, their photograph. I do not see where Rock River Arms was mentioned at all in this thread as a source for barrels until you brought up their lack of availability.
I caught that, dont worry, I havent purchased RRA...
in about a week I will be using one of the posters (in this thread) to obtain my upper with a CHF barrel (bcm middy)
I guess the better answer is I want a very accurate combat barrel, and will consider a little extra weight if it is more likely to improve my chances...
Gotcha. Some folks like to create unreal expectations of the level of accuracy.
Photo by USMC03 as posted in this thread (PG3) of a target that we shoot in matches at 400-ish yards (http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=2475):
http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk99/USMC03_photos/Monthly%20Rifle%20Matches/IMG_2054_1.jpg
My 16" mid length AR's (BCM and Sabre barrels) with the gov't profile will consistently hit this target if I do my part. This target is convenient for 400 yards as the target is tall and scored hit/miss, so you have some advantage engaging that target without being overly critical about the range. I have hit that target at 400 yards, with my first round of the day/match using an Aimpoint ML3 with a 2MOA dot and 55gr ball ammunition. It usually takes me a couple rounds and walking the impacts in though, as I'm a lousy shooter. To be fair, engaging that target is much easier with a magnifier or conventional scope. This would be more of an example of combat grade accuracy, as I have no idea about the group sizes my gun will shoot at that range.
I wasn't implying that you, "UVvis", were directing anyone to buy RRA. Apologize if it looked like that, wasnt my intent.
I didnt want anyone to look up the pic & make a "click" buy. I understand there are better options available from more reliable sources & would want others to know as well. Reason for my follow up post.
Thanks
Belmont31R
12-03-09, 00:23
Just my opinion but there is little reason to get an HBAR barrel in regular 4150. The Colt 6921HB uppers came about to reduce the chance of a cook off after sustained FA fire. There is little reason for the casual shooter to get an HBAR. All it ends up doing is adding tons of weight in front. Gov profile is not ideal but is fine for most people.
A good all around barrel is the hammer forged type. They offer increased wear resistance, a little better accuracy, and will do everything most people need.
You can go SS but they are not ideal for sustained fire, and wear out more quickly. It would not be my choice for an all around barrel.
If you want to build your own look into the BCM 16" middy barrels. They are sold in both hammer forged and regular 4150. You can also get a Noveske middy upper, and use that as the basis for your build. I think BCM sells them for a little over $600.
If you want an M4 contour Daniel Defense also sells stripped barrels in both HF and standard.
...This is what Sabre calls a heavy barrel, one of them any way.
http://images17.fotki.com/v372/photos/5/41655/8123914/Heavybarrel-vi.jpg
Actually that is what Sabre would designate as a mid-weight. Their heavy offerings would be their A3 National Match, Heavy Bench Target, Varmint, etc.
If you want to build your own look into the BCM 16" middy barrels. They are sold in both hammer forged and regular 4150. You can also get a Noveske middy upper, and use that as the basis for your build. I think BCM sells them for a little over $600.
The Noveske you talk about, it doesnt get thin under the handguard? I cannot find a pic of it... seems like that would give me the meat I want and hammer forged in a decent priced upper to build from
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