View Full Version : Is Iran posed to be the next Nazi Germani?
SW-Shooter
12-05-09, 01:51
Iran has sponsored radical Islamic units for years.
They are tight with Chavez, Fidel, and others. They have their beach head.
Problems in Saudi Arabia with Yemeni insurgents taking Saudi Arabian soil and holding it.
Are they posed to be the next "Big" threat.
discussion?
variablebinary
12-05-09, 06:32
Iran doesn't have the capacity to be like NAZI Germany
No we should not go to war with Iran. They are no threat to the USA. If the Israelis have a problem with Iran, let them deal with it. The same goes for every other nation in that region.
This perpetual state of war the USA has been in needs to end.
I don't think they have the same industrial and military capacity that Germany had.
If you think Iran has the potential to tip the world into war, then yes. Are they in a unique position to leverage significant power? Yes.
They have been killing Americans since 1983, they are a threat and will continue to be a threat. IMHO, they are the real target in the WOT.
I believe it is not the case but it is interesting that the Persians were somewhat allied with the Nazis and are not of Arabic descent.
Iran has sponsored radical Islamic units for years.
They are tight with Chavez, Fidel, and others. They have their beach head.
Problems in Saudi Arabia with Yemeni insurgents taking Saudi Arabian soil and holding it.
Are they posed to be the next "Big" threat.
discussion?
Don't take your eye off of Russia (or Putin).
Iran doesn't have the capacity to be like NAZI Germany
No we should not go to war with Iran. They are no threat to the USA. If the Israelis have a problem with Iran, let them deal with it. The same goes for every other nation in that region.
This perpetual state of war the USA has been in needs to end.
Variablebinary......the problem is....you don't understand the enemy and who it is. Saudi Arabia and its money tell the muslims around the world what to think and what being a good muslim is...remember they are the original muslims so they should know....according to them. Now until we "the Western world" really understand what the muslim world is doing and fight them to a stand still soon (20-30 years) you will find your the only one left on the "block" who doesn't want to be muslim and then it is too late.
You need to look at every major conflict around the globe at this time and where "terrorist" acts are occuring and you'll see that they are "new" country's being prostilitized to becoming Muslim......when a religion states in its text....text that can be changed by no one!... ever!.. as it came directly from Allah to the prophet Mohammad, in order to praise Allah one must convert or kill the non-believers (Infidels----which I'm proud to be!) then they will never be done with this war...therefore we can't be either...unless you plan on converting.....I DON"T!
For your information,..... if you study this in any detail you'll realize the radical muslims have been at war with us since the 1920's.....that equates to roughly 90 years of being at war with "us" (The West).......looks like we have some catching up to do in the "hate" department or in the be prepared to defend yourself department....which ever you prefer...
I wish everyone would wake the hell up and learn about the bastards that want to kill everyone of us!
Now Iran you say isn't a problem....listen to the PM's (acemadenijad-sp?) speeches......Isreal must be wiped off of the map and the great satan must die.....oh.. they believe we...the U.S.!.. is the great satan....how long will it take for someone to tell us they are going to shoot us in the face before we believe them....right now it doesn't look like Iran has a gun right?......well when they get a Nuke they'll have the ultimate gun and then it is drawn in our faces...a little late don't you think???? Now I'm not stating that tomorrow we attack but we sure as hell better be ready when Iran is "drawing" their weapon so we can shoot them in the face first........I know it sounds so far fetched but you just think of a weapon 100 times more powerful then Hiroshima in the U.S......Baltmore would vanish...Atlanta....pick your city and it goes....that is the kind of "gun" the enemy of everyone in this country wants to have and will use....they won't get it and threaten us they will use it...they WILL use it and no talking will stop them.
So please get your damn head out of the sand before it gets cut off by the extremists..........
Enjoy....Outlaw5
Iran is the number one enemy of the United States and has been so since 1979. They have been killing Americans ever since and will continue to do so.
Iran will be nuke capable within a year. It is only a matter of time before they do exactly what they have been saying they would do for years now.
Sadly, many of the people of Iran are not unfriendly to the US or the West. They are however ruled by the Islamist zealots and will ultimately have to pay the price for that. Unless we can unleash them. That will require leadership from our government which is currently non-existant. It will require pre-emptive strikes on many of Iran's facilities, governmental nodes, and military command structures. It will require work and balls. And even then its not guaranteed to work. Doing nothing however only guarantees Israel's destruction, nuclear terrorism around the world, a nuclear arms race amongst other Arab nations, and ultimately seal our own fate. Its all a nice thought brought to you by Islamic madmen.
variablebinary
12-05-09, 09:21
Variablebinary......the problem is....you don't understand the enemy and who it is. Saudi Arabia and its money tell the muslims around the world what to think and what being a good muslim is...remember they are the original muslims so they should know....according to them. Now until we "the Western world" really understand what the muslim world is doing and fight them to a stand still soon (20-30 years) you will find your the only one left on the "block" who doesn't want to be muslim and then it is too late.
You need to look at every major conflict around the globe at this time and where "terrorist" acts are occuring and you'll see that they are "new" country's being prostilitized to becoming Muslim......when a religion states in its text....text that can be changed by no one!... ever!.. as it came directly from Allah to the prophet Mohammad, in order to praise Allah one must convert or kill the non-believers (Infidels----which I'm proud to be!) then they will never be done with this war...therefore we can't be either...unless you plan on converting.....I DON"T!
For your information,..... if you study this in any detail you'll realize the radical muslims have been at war with us since the 1920's.....that equates to roughly 90 years of being at war with "us" (The West).......looks like we have some catching up to do in the "hate" department or in the be prepared to defend yourself department....which ever you prefer...
I wish everyone would wake the hell up and learn about the bastards that want to kill everyone of us!
Now Iran you say isn't a problem....listen to the PM's (acemadenijad-sp?) speeches......Isreal must be wiped off of the map and the great satan must die.....oh.. they believe we...the U.S.!.. is the great satan....how long will it take for someone to tell us they are going to shoot us in the face before we believe them....right now it doesn't look like Iran has a gun right?......well when they get a Nuke they'll have the ultimate gun and then it is drawn in our faces...a little late don't you think???? Now I'm not stating that tomorrow we attack but we sure as hell better be ready when Iran is "drawing" their weapon so we can shoot them in the face first........I know it sounds so far fetched but you just think of a weapon 100 times more powerful then Hiroshima in the U.S......Baltmore would vanish...Atlanta....pick your city and it goes....that is the kind of "gun" the enemy of everyone in this country wants to have and will use....they won't get it and threaten us they will use it...they WILL use it and no talking will stop them.
So please get your damn head out of the sand before it gets cut off by the extremists..........
Enjoy....Outlaw5
Please. I've heard the same junior college level political analysis for the past ten years or so. We keep hearing the same justifications over and over about every Islamic nation in the middle east.
The real enemy is Iran
The real enemy is Afghanistan
The real enemy is Iraq
The real enemy is Libya
The real enemy is Lebanon
Iran cannot defeat the USA. Only the USA can defeat the USA through domestic political correctness and geo-political stupidity.
If Israel is afraid of being wiped off the map they better grow some balls and deal with their problem. The USA cant continue with this "whack a mole" use of our military might in the Arab world. We just cant sustain it. The moderate Arab nations, Europeans and Israelis need to get their shit together and deal the problems in their backyard.
I am against any and all American military action against Iran without a clear cut objective with an end game and exit strategy.
actually,
the younger generations of the "People" of Iran are friendly to westerners.
Iranians are actually Persians.
The "nutjob" president of Iran is the issue.
Im also of the thought to let Israel and even Saudi take care of Iran.
Below in red...
Please. I've heard the same junior college level political analysis for the past ten years or so. We keep hearing the same justifications over and over about every Islamic nation in the middle east.
The real enemy is Iran The real problem are the Islamists in Iran
The real enemy is Afghanistan Nope. It was the Taliban and AQ.
The real enemy is IraqNope, it was the Bathist regime that defied international agreements it signed on to.
The real enemy is LibyaThat little problem was rectified by Reagan.
The real enemy is Lebanon Nope, the problem there is Hezbollah - which of course is a primary proxy of Iran.
Iran cannot defeat the USA. Only the USA can defeat the USA through domestic political correctness and geo-political stupidity. Iran can't defeat the USA in a strict military sense, but it can send it reeling like a rabid comet off course once it gets a dirty nuke or worse popped on our soil or even in Europe's front yard.
If Israel is afraid of being wiped off the map they better grow some balls and deal with their problem. Oh they will and they would have much earlier if we had gotten out of their way.The USA cant continue with this "whack a mole" use of our military might in the Arab world. On this we agree. I'd rather go right into the heart of the cancer rather than treat the symptoms.We just cant sustain it. The moderate Arab nations, Europeans and Israelis need to get their shit together and deal the problems in their backyard. Unfortunately, when you are talking 30 seconds from launch to impact, it is also our backyard.
I am against any and all American military action against Iran without a clear cut objective with an end game and exit strategy. Agreed. It should be clear cut. Wipe out any semblance of Islamist control of Iran.
Outlander Systems
12-05-09, 09:53
VB, ultimately, the American People = "The Real Enemy"
When I step back from all the hubris and noise, and twits on the 'tube, all I see is a bunch of bullshit, where, with every "enemy" the US has to give up more of something, to obtain...what exactly?
I've had my rights, security, and freedom trampled on more by greasebags in suits, the psychos in turbans.
After this recent little debacle with party-crashers at the White House and insurgents within the military itself, I don't ****ing EVER want to hear shit about a Patriot Act II, nor am I cordially going to accept spreading my cheeks at the TSA booth at the Airport. I'm ****ing sick of it. Additional screening my ass. All these measures are nothing more than a front, a smokescreen, for gradually grinding our collective rights down at a rate slow enough to not alarm us. I'm done with it. I don't believe that any law, or bill, or "act" is going to "protect me", any more than I believe banning guns keeps me "safer".
The so-called National Security Apparatus is a sham, and with every "enemy" and every "war" the American people have to sacrifice something else. Oh, but it's always to keep us safe from the big bad boogeyman. :rolleyes:
From what I've seen from Fort Hood shootings and White House Partygate is that all the measures we've put in place to keep things "safe" are a whitewash.
No, we don't need any more "enemies". Based on the FedGov's behaviour apparently liberty's the only enemy on their radar.
I'm sorry, but I'm about War'd out.
I think Wall Street and the Fed have done more damage to the United States than Al Qaeda could ever hope to.
Keep being distracted by boogeymen for grown-ups, while we're witnessing the biggest transfer of wealth/theft in human history.
Don't take your eye off of Russia (or Putin).
Or the Monsters Within the Beltway or China, for that matter. And surely you err greatly if you take your eyes off of the EU as well as Jerusalem.
My point is that *ALL* of the Great Powers and Influential Ones ae jockeying themselves for a potential energy bonanza with the TAPI pipeline (i.e, Turkmenistan, Afghanistan, Pakistan, India) and others in attempt to bypass Russia. Russia has Nord Stream and South Stream and is proposing others to weaken the West. I know I have some serious detractors relative to geopolitics but time shall prove me correct, unfortunately.
I'm sorry, but I'm about War'd out.
Unfortunately, the enemies of peace are not.
Although I agree with some of your points, I think you are lumping issues together that are not related.
VB, ultimately, the American People = "The Real Enemy"
When I step back from all the hubris and noise, and twits on the 'tube, all I see is a bunch of bullshit, where, with every "enemy" the US has to give up more of something, to obtain...what exactly?
I've had my rights, security, and freedom trampled on more by greasebags in suits, the psychos in turbans.
After this recent little debacle with party-crashers at the White House and insurgents within the military itself, I don't ****ing EVER want to hear shit about a Patriot Act II, nor am I cordially going to accept spreading my cheeks at the TSA booth at the Airport. I'm ****ing sick of it. Additional screening my ass. All these measures are nothing more than a front, a smokescreen, for gradually grinding our collective rights down at a rate slow enough to not alarm us. I'm done with it. I don't believe that any law, or bill, or "act" is going to "protect me", any more than I believe banning guns keeps me "safer".
The so-called National Security Apparatus is a sham, and with every "enemy" and every "war" the American people have to sacrifice something else. Oh, but it's always to keep us safe from the big bad boogeyman. :rolleyes:
From what I've seen from Fort Hood shootings and White House Partygate is that all the measures we've put in place to keep things "safe" are a whitewash.
No, we don't need any more "enemies". Based on the FedGov's behaviour apparently liberty's the only enemy on their radar.
I'm sorry, but I'm about War'd out.
I think Wall Street and the Fed have done more damage to the United States than Al Qaeda could ever hope to.
Keep being distracted by boogeymen for grown-ups, while we're witnessing the biggest transfer of wealth/theft in human history.
Very well spoken, sir.
VB, ultimately, the American People = "The Real Enemy"
When I step back from all the hubris and noise, and twits on the 'tube, all I see is a bunch of bullshit, where, with every "enemy" the US has to give up more of something, to obtain...what exactly?
I've had my rights, security, and freedom trampled on more by greasebags in suits, the psychos in turbans.
After this recent little debacle with party-crashers at the White House and insurgents within the military itself, I don't ****ing EVER want to hear shit about a Patriot Act II, nor am I cordially going to accept spreading my cheeks at the TSA booth at the Airport. I'm ****ing sick of it. Additional screening my ass. All these measures are nothing more than a front, a smokescreen, for gradually grinding our collective rights down at a rate slow enough to not alarm us. I'm done with it. I don't believe that any law, or bill, or "act" is going to "protect me", any more than I believe banning guns keeps me "safer".
The so-called National Security Apparatus is a sham, and with every "enemy" and every "war" the American people have to sacrifice something else. Oh, but it's always to keep us safe from the big bad boogeyman. :rolleyes:
From what I've seen from Fort Hood shootings and White House Partygate is that all the measures we've put in place to keep things "safe" are a whitewash.
No, we don't need any more "enemies". Based on the FedGov's behaviour apparently liberty's the only enemy on their radar.
I'm sorry, but I'm about War'd out.
I think Wall Street and the Fed have done more damage to the United States than Al Qaeda could ever hope to.
Keep being distracted by boogeymen for grown-ups, while we're witnessing the biggest transfer of wealth/theft in human history.
Well put. We have allowed ourselves to be seriously distracted for far too long. I'm not sure the US populace will ever perceive it in the manner that you've just described. Your opinion is erroneously considered "treason" by many here and throughout the US.
I'm with you, brother.
Being a "big threat" is in no way equivalent to being "Nazi Germany" - the semiotics of the Nazi regime are unlike those of any other. Introducing them into any discussion not actually about Nazis or neo-Nazis is guaranteed to render the discussion pointless (hence, Godwin).
Is Iran a "threat"? To regional hegemony, to its own people, sure.
To the American Way of Life or something? No.
China is a much greater threat to our well-being and global standing. And the good of humanity (China has become the leading bad actor in Africa, by a rather large margin), etc..
rubberneck
12-05-09, 16:12
Iran has sponsored radical Islamic units for years.
They are tight with Chavez, Fidel, and others. They have their beach head.
Problems in Saudi Arabia with Yemeni insurgents taking Saudi Arabian soil and holding it.
Are they posed to be the next "Big" threat.
discussion?
No. They share the same irrational twisted hatred of the Jews but the Nazi's had the industrial capacity Iran lacks, and more importantly they had the intellectual to leverage that capacity. Iran could become a serious threat regionally but make no mistake about it there are at least three countries that could turn Iran into a parking lot without even breaking a sweat.
No. They share the same irrational twisted hatred of the Jews but the Nazi's had the industrial capacity Iran lacks, and more importantly they had the intellectual to leverage that capacity. Iran could become a serious threat regionally but make no mistake about it there are at least three countries that could turn Iran into a parking lot without even breaking a sweat.
The Israelis have more spies in Iran than anyone else.
When that lone North Korean rocket is 500ft in the air, 6 Nukes will be airborne heading their way! Iran is a very old Civilization, it will get no older, in one big bang. Their Prime Minister has told the Word, do something about Iran, or we most certainly will.
I am against any and all American military action against Iran without a clear cut objective with an end game and exit strategy.
Even tactical air strikes?
No way, not Americans problem.
Israel, they are the people under threat, first thing to go, the Nuke plants.
Just think, what kind of person wants to kill every Man, Woman, and Child in Israel! Disgusting sick person.
Oh, you want me to say what I mean? OK.
Germany was a great industrial power with a host of natural resources. Iran has...................some oil. Germany had a professional military that was well trained, well equipped, and could project power across continents, albeit they did manage to outpace their logistics train. I don't see Iran ever projecting power beyond its contiguous neighbors.
Germany had a professional military that was well trained, well equipped, and could project power across continents, albeit they did manage to outpace their logistics train. I don't see Iran ever projecting power beyond its contiguous neighbors.
Correct as far as the German military capability, but aren't you forgetting about the potential Iranian nuclear capability combined with the missiles they are developing? Isn't that the main X-factor here?
I think we should stand by Israel no matter what. But, even if you don't you still must agree that we have large bases in range of their current missiles. Let alone whatever they may have a year or two from now.
They'd get one strike. Hit a target near any potential allies and destroy access to Islam's three most holy shrines? I don't see it happening.
As for Israel, I been to Lebanon twice, the first time in '83; **** Israel.
As for Israel, I been to Lebanon twice, the first time in '83; **** Israel.
So they are not a viable ally in the war on terror and should be disregarded? And they are also so bad you would watch them be extinguished?
This because you were in Lebanon? What did you see or hear while there to make you say such a thing?
They'd get one strike.
A few hundred or maybe even thousand American dead is acceptable?
Make no mistake, Israel is not an ally of ours. They are "friends" of convenience and nothing more and the convenience is on their end. For the 10 billion dollars a year we pay them I think we could buy much better friends. Iran has missiles of regional range, they cannot strike CONUS. Anywhere they might strike regionally would create a fall-out problem for themselves and any potential allies, taking the rational use of nukes as a first strike weapon off of the table. There would be no strategic or tactical benefit for the use of an Iranian nuke. What would they follow it up with, a conventional power projection (invasion)? I don't think so. Iran lacks the means to do this. I also believe that we have the regional intercept capability to negate the use of any Iranian nuke outside of a high speed flat trajectory launch and they lack that type of platform.
Make no mistake, Israel is not an ally of ours. They are "friends" of convenience and nothing more and the convenience is on their end.
Are you basically implying they are a paid-off enemy of sorts? Why, because of the spying and the USS Liberty?
Just so I/we understand.
Israel had information on the planning of the Iranian planned and financed attack on the barracks and didn't pass it on. They were pissed because we were there in the first place and even madder about the humiliation handed they field commander a few months before when he tried to lead an armored column through Marine held territory (stopped by a Marine officer putting his .45 to the Israeli officer's head and telling him, no or else). The Liberty? Another good case in point. Jonathan Pollard, anyone? The Israelis are our friends as much as the Chinese are.
Anywhere they might strike regionally would create a fall-out problem for themselves and any potential allies, taking the rational use of nukes as a first strike weapon off of the table. There would be no strategic or tactical benefit for the use of an Iranian nuke. What would they follow it up with, a conventional power projection (invasion)? I don't think so. Iran lacks the means to do this.
You're assuming they're rational?
A first strike use of a nuke by Iran on any of their neighbors would be tantamount to a use on themselves. There would be no gain. A use in the name of Islam that would effectively destroy holy Islamic sites? I don't see it. It would be like Catholics destroying the Vatican to smite the Italians in Rome. Iran lacks the ability to self sustain industrially, economically, or agriculturally. Iran must trade its oil to keeps its economy going. A use of a nuke by Iran would bring trade to a standstill, it would be suicide for the country and the revolution.
A first strike use of a nuke by Iran on any of their neighbors would be tantamount to a use on themselves. There would be no gain.
And what is the benefit of the defiant way they are behaving now? Where is the gain in that? You speak as though you know their end game.
A use in the name of Islam that would effectively destroy holy Islamic sites? I don't see it.
Really? Do you see them blowing up civilians, mostly fellow muslims, as a matter of routine in the name of islam? But no buildings?
Ever?
:rolleyes:
A first strike use of a nuke by Iran on any of their neighbors would be tantamount to a use on themselves. There would be no gain. A use in the name of Islam that would effectively destroy holy Islamic sites? I don't see it. It would be like Catholics destroying the Vatican to smite the Italians in Rome. Iran lacks the ability to self sustain industrially, economically, or agriculturally. Iran must trade its oil to keeps its economy going. A use of a nuke by Iran would bring trade to a standstill, it would be suicide for the country and the revolution.
I don't pretend to know what's going on in the minds of the Iranian leadership.
However,if they're really only interested in "bringing forth the twelfth Imam" as they've said(many believe they're sincere)...None of your points matter much.
The Twelfth Iman cannot be "brought forth". He will come when the time is right, alongside Jesus to right the world according to Shia beliefs. The holy sites of the Shia faith are between Israel and Iran. Mecca and Medina are also holy sites. To harm any of them would undermine both the Shia and Sunni beliefs. Iran cannot afford to do that, and won't.
The Hojjatieh?
Again,i have no idea what they're thinking...
Although,some of Ahmadinejad's own words seem to suggest otherwise.
Just the first sources i found with a quick search...
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/12/15/AR2005121501428.html
http://www.ashbrook.org/publicat/guest/05/vonheyking/twelfthimam.html
From the first link...
Ahmadinejad said publicly that the main mission of the Islamic Revolution is to pave the way for the reappearance of the Twelfth Imam.
He's also spoke of "wiping Israel off the map" in practically the same breath when making other similar comments about the 12th Imam.
The second had links to some of the speeches/sources but they seem to be broken.It's also a good example of why i don't have a clue as to what they believe(not sure if "they" know themselves).:confused:
they are radical muslims. nothing is rational or predictable with their kind. fk them and fk that entire part of the world. Israel is nothing but trouble, a little kid on a playground with a baseball bat.
they are radical Muslims. nothing is rational or predictable with their kind. fk them and fk that entire part of the world. Israel is nothing but trouble, a little kid on a playground with a baseball bat.
Blame the Brits, they gave that land away in 1948, and it was not theirs to give away!
Mind you they have done wonders with it, lands have been given, and taken since the beginning of time, whole County's in some cases.
It does seem to be a done deal now does it not? Ever since the break up of the Soviet Union, land and names changed around then, the possibility of missing nuclear devices (suitcase bombs, etc) reared it's ugly head, nothing yet?
With nothing to loose, and no where to go, and a definite nuclear strike capability, Israel will not hesitate to use that material if they decide to, IMHO.
Fortified Villages any one?
There would be no gain.
Thats never stopped an Islamist before.
Unfortunately, the enemies of peace are not.
Although I agree with some of your points, I think you are lumping issues together that are not related.
Don't know why I got the update to this thread so late but.......
I agree we are fighting Islam, not random nations as some posters have stated and you countered well. Your statement that 'radical islam' post 1920s is accurate save adding the 'contemporary' qualifier with it. Wahabbism (sp but don't care) got its start in the mid 19th C to get back to the good old days before muslims were sinful and still in charge. When WWI ended and the Turk Empire was no more, muslims got pissed and have stayed pissed.
Not to nit pic.....
The reality is that islam has had bloody boarders since its inception. What we are seeing is simply the latest round of a fight that's been going since the 7th C.
Until that fundamental fact is recognized we will continue to make perfectly sound decisions that are based upon a flawed premise.
As for Israel, I been to Lebanon twice, the first time in '83; **** Israel.
I was there in 82 and back again in the fall of 83, left in Feb 84 while with 2/8. While I don't think Israel acted as angels in that war, they were simply defending them selves from the PLO.
Remember, it was Iranian's and their proxies that got the fight going with the MNF and kept it going. They are now the hezbos that run Lebanon.
Shiite Islam has Iran at its center, Sunni has Saudi Arabia. Suffi? Don't know where the center is for them.
Again, just another round in the 1,400 year long war. The common denominator is Islam.
Not to nit pic.....
The reality is that islam has had bloody boarders since its inception. What we are seeing is simply the latest round of a fight that's been going since the 7th C.
Until that fundamental fact is recognized we will continue to make perfectly sound decisions that are based upon a flawed premise.
Absolutely.
The fight will continue regardless of whether we are "tired" of it. We weren't even around when the fight started, but the Islamists aim to finish it regardless of what we think or how we feel.
The unedumacated public best gets its head out of its rear end and be prepared to get done what needs to get done before its too late.
Absolutely.
The fight will continue regardless of whether we are "tired" of it. We weren't even around when the fight started, but the Psalmists aim to finish it regardless of what we think or how we feel.
The uneducated public best gets its head out of its rear end and be prepared to get done what needs to get done before its too late.
My Grandson was in Beirut early this year, a mini war started up while him and his fellow engineer were running a class on the Airport property, they put the plane back together, some Brit turned up in a plain flight suit, flew them out, as the runway lights turned off! And he could see green tracer rounds crossing the place they had just vacated! We call him 007 now.
That City used to be the jewel of the Med.
Please. I've heard the same junior college level political analysis for the past ten years or so. We keep hearing the same justifications over and over about every Islamic nation in the middle east.
The real enemy is Iran
The real enemy is Afghanistan
The real enemy is Iraq
The real enemy is Libya
The real enemy is Lebanon
Iran cannot defeat the USA. Only the USA can defeat the USA through domestic political correctness and geo-political stupidity.
If Israel is afraid of being wiped off the map they better grow some balls and deal with their problem. The USA cant continue with this "whack a mole" use of our military might in the Arab world. We just cant sustain it. The moderate Arab nations, Europeans and Israelis need to get their shit together and deal the problems in their backyard.
I am against any and all American military action against Iran without a clear cut objective with an end game and exit strategy.
And what Major "Senior" College are you from????????
Small minds College of podunck? Listen, in your great retort I noticed you sighted no real information or understanding of the larger problem...I expected that.....again...pull your head out of the sand before it gets cut off.
Outlaw5
And what Major "Senior" College are you from????????
Small minds College of podunck? Listen, in your great retort I noticed you sighted no real information or understanding of the larger problem...I expected that.....again...pull your head out of the sand before it gets cut off.
Outlaw5
Please forgive me if I am speaking out of turn, and maybe I am too simplistic, but here goes.
The Middle east has the oil.
We need the oil.
We have some of the best engineers in the World, well maybe not just some, actually a whole bunch.
Can we not find a domestic way to run our ground transportation, not on oil.
We have underwater craft that run without gas, I know there is a million reasons that my thoughts are non starters? Greed being one, big business being linked.
The middle east is still in the stone age, stop buying their oil, they will slip back in to it more.
They thrive on hate, and a religion that convinces people how good it will be when the blow themselves to bits as a human bomb! Having all these virgins, that they will not know what to do with, said virgins not having much fun, they have been mutilated to make sure they don't!
Hullo!
Our Military are over there, standing in between a myriad of people who hate each other, and they live there! Our guys are standing in between them, just getting themselves crippled and killed, to stop them killing each other!
One more time... Hullo.
Hullo!
And let me ask you: is it just Israel you have a problem with or is there a larger group of people you have a problem with?
Just wondering, no offense.
shit, man... you sure love to pull out the antisemite card, don't you? Germany replaced a social ethnic superiority complex with a moral superiority complex. you're still a bunch of ****in supremacists.
shit, man... you sure love to pull out the antisemite card, don't you? Germany replaced a social ethnic superiority complex with a moral superiority complex. you're still a bunch of ****in supremacists.
What the is this reply supposed to represent? Been drinking tonight? Just having a bad day overall? I mean really, I am clueless.
I agree with Terminal Effect. While I like the gentleman he was referring to, he is coming up as a potential racist due to his seemingly blind hate.
And what is the benefit of the defiant way they are behaving now? Where is the gain in that? You speak as though you know their end game.
Actually, this is pretty clear.
Acting defiant increases their standing as a regional power - defying the Americans, projection of military power, etc.. You might recall a little decade-long war they had with a regional enemy a couple decades back...
It also increases the government's power internally - standing up to the Americans is popular with "red state Iran," and not entirely unpopular with the "blue state Iran." The urbanites and youth protesting at the last election were hardly pro-American.
No nation wants to appear weak - caving to the West puts Iran in a weaker posture with their neighbors and with trading partners (China, Russia, the west).
Please forgive me if I am speaking out of turn, and maybe I am too simplistic, but here goes.
The Middle east has the oil.
We need the oil.
We have some of the best engineers in the World, well maybe not just some, actually a whole bunch.
Can we not find a domestic way to run our ground transportation, not on oil.
We have underwater craft that run without gas, I know there is a million reasons that my thoughts are non starters? Greed being one, big business being linked.
The middle east is still in the stone age, stop buying their oil, they will slip back in to it more.
They thrive on hate, and a religion that convinces people how good it will be when the blow themselves to bits as a human bomb! Having all these virgins, that they will not know what to do with, said virgins not having much fun, they have been mutilated to make sure they don't!
Hullo!
Our Military are over there, standing in between a myriad of people who hate each other, and they live there! Our guys are standing in between them, just getting themselves crippled and killed, to stop them killing each other!
One more time... Hullo.
Hullo!
Your point is well taken. One reason the Muslim Brotherhood (who got their start in the 1920 right after WWI - See my previous post) has been able to be so active is due to the cash we pay for oil. Absolutely no doubt about it. I want us off oil not because I like polar bears and to hug trees but to stick it to islam.
Actually, this is pretty clear.
Acting defiant increases their standing as a regional power - defying the Americans, projection of military power, etc.. You might recall a little decade-long war they had with a regional enemy a couple decades back...
I really don't see their defiance as being any type of intelligent strategy all things considered. They are headed down a dead end road this time and everybody knows it.
It's not a matter of if, but when. They are being defiant because they are hateful fanatics, not articulate strategists.
The urbanites and youth protesting at the last election were hardly pro-American.
Actually, there is a tremendous of pro-western sentiment in Iran among the youth. This is fairly common knowledge.
What the is this reply supposed to represent? Been drinking tonight? Just having a bad day overall? I mean really, I am clueless.
I agree with Terminal Effect. While I like the gentleman he was referring to, he is coming up as a potential racist due to his seemingly blind hate.
if he's got the right to pull the racism card any time anyone makes a negative comment about Israel, jews, or jewish culture, then i have the right to call bullshit on that bullshit. he's more of a supremacist than those he tries to stigmatize.
that's all i have to say about it, i'm not getting wrapped up in another racism derailment with this kid.
if he's got the right to pull the racism card any time anyone makes a negative comment about Israel, jews, or jewish culture, then i have the right to call bullshit on that bullshit. he's more of a supremacist than those he tries to stigmatize.
that's all i have to say about it, i'm not getting wrapped up in another racism derailment with this kid.
Well, I have no clue of your past with him. So I am ignorant there.
But, to rush to call someone posting from Berlin, a German I may foolishly assume, an anti-semite for defending Israel might seem a bit odd at first glance, would it not?
Or do you know something I don't?
I really don't see their defiance as being any type of intelligent strategy all things considered. They are headed down a dead end road this time and everybody knows it.
It's not a matter of if, but when. They are being defiant because they are hateful fanatics, not articulate strategists.
Your logic is as circular as a Krispy Kreme. "They're nuts, so they're going to act nuts. How do I know they're nuts? Because they're nuts."
It's easy to take any given position if you just decide everyone on the opposite side is acting irrationally. Problem is, that bears little resemblance to reality.
There is zero indication that the political leadership of Iran - which, mind you, has actually only been the leadership for a half decade - wishes to commit an enormous act of suicide for the nation by launching a nuclear bomb. Nor has the religious leadership of Iran (which is more powerful than the political) done so, by any measure, over the course of 30 years.
You can claim they've acted criminally, aided terrorists, yada yada yada - but none of those are irrational acts.
There are strong, sound political principles behind a nation-state acting belligerently and/or attempting to acquire nuclear weapons. Nukes make you a player on the global stage. Nukes give you the ultimate trump card in the face of potential attack - the same reason the Israelis went nuclear, the same reason we built the largest stockpiles on Earth.
Actually, there is a tremendous of pro-western sentiment in Iran among the youth. This is fairly common knowledge.
In certain sectors of the educated youth, there's always been pro-Western sentiment. Including the time of the Revolution. It is not a large number compared to the population. It is not even a large number compared to those who oppose Ahmadinejad.
How much do you know about the players in the recent Presidential debacle? Not much if you think they presented a pro-Western face. The closest we've come since 1979 was Khatami, and I don't recall conservatives championing him too strongly.
Don't confuse the lack of "DEATH TO THE GREAT SATAN" chants with being "pro-Western." Young Iranians are nationalists - they have no interest in seeing a moderate religious government or secular government getting in bed with the West as the Shah did.
SW-Shooter
12-06-09, 19:33
Iranians want our prosperity, music, movies, technology, etc...
But they don't want the Infidel West that goes along with it. They hate us, period. Persians have a self prophetic destiny to conquer the world. Just look at their history. Crusades anyone.
Your logic is as circular as a Krispy Kreme. "They're nuts, so they're going to act nuts. How do I know they're nuts? Because they're nuts."
The only thing "Krispy Kreme" here is your laughably flawed logic. I know what Iran is, don't spout your self-righteous nonsense on me.
There is zero indication that the political leadership of Iran - which, mind you, has actually only been the leadership for a half decade - wishes to commit an enormous act of suicide for the nation by launching a nuclear bomb.
Yes, they are the stable ones now that I think about it. And have always proven so over the years. :rolleyes:
You can claim they've acted criminally, aided terrorists, yada yada yada - but none of those are irrational acts.
Fundamentally, financially and religiously supporting terrorism is not irrational? Seriously, did you actually think about this before you wrote it?
This argument is too ludicrous to continue. Let's defend the sanity of Iran and it's hard-liners in power while refuting the support of the youth. Fu*king unbelievable.
It's easy to take any given position if you just decide everyone on the opposite side is acting irrationally. Problem is, that bears little resemblance to reality.
There is zero indication that the political leadership of Iran - which, mind you, has actually only been the leadership for a half decade - wishes to commit an enormous act of suicide for the nation by launching a nuclear bomb. Nor has the religious leadership of Iran (which is more powerful than the political) done so, by any measure, over the course of 30 years.
You can claim they've acted criminally, aided terrorists, yada yada yada - but none of those are irrational acts.
There are strong, sound political principles behind a nation-state acting belligerently and/or attempting to acquire nuclear weapons. Nukes make you a player on the global stage. Nukes give you the ultimate trump card in the face of potential attack - the same reason the Israelis went nuclear, the same reason we built the largest stockpiles on Earth.
In certain sectors of the educated youth, there's always been pro-Western sentiment. Including the time of the Revolution. It is not a large number compared to the population. It is not even a large number compared to those who oppose Ahmadinejad.
How much do you know about the players in the recent Presidential debacle? Not much if you think they presented a pro-Western face. The closest we've come since 1979 was Khatami, and I don't recall conservatives championing him too strongly.
Don't confuse the lack of "DEATH TO THE GREAT SATAN" chants with being "pro-Western." Young Iranians are nationalists - they have no interest in seeing a moderate religious government or secular government getting in bed with the West as the Shah did.
Agreed. Especially the nukes. It certainly would make them a player. Historically, they have issues with Russia and Israel has problems with everyone in the region. And both have nuclear arsenals. Add the US and British interest and you add another dimension. Oh, those nations are the core of NATO so you have the weight of EU (politically and militarily as well). There is also issues between some Arab states and the Persians. I see where they are coming from historically. Let's not even look at our role in deposing the lawfully, legally elected leadership with a military coup which put the hardline religious folk in power there. We've fumbled our way through foreign policy it seems. Of course, hindsight is 20/20...
Just a note to all... Enjoy the debate; However, make your point WITHOUT personal attacks...
1st and only WARNING...
B
Iranians want our prosperity, music, movies, technology, etc...
But they don't want the Infidel West that goes along with it. They hate us, period. Persians have a self prophetic destiny to conquer the world. Just look at their history. Crusades anyone.
We have our own, too. Manifest Destiny, the British Empire and the EU and their proposed NWO. You cannot paint with such a broad brush, my friend.
The only thing "Krispy Kreme" here is your laughably flawed logic. I know what Iran is, don't spout your self-righteous nonsense on me.
"I know because I know." This is not an argument.
Yes, they are the stable ones now that I think about it. And have always proven so over the years. :rolleyes:
I didn't say they were stable - the Iranian political spectrum is rather unstable, actually - allegiances shift, the religious and military winds shift.
But there is no indication that any of the players are irrational and wish to have the entire nation-state destroyed for Allah. Nor can you offer up any substantiation of your claims, aside from "Iran is crazy!"
Fundamentally, financially and religiously supporting terrorism is not irrational? Seriously, did you actually think about this before you wrote it?
No, it's not irrational. "Terrorism" is no more or less rational than conventional warfare.
Aside from the political and military uses of terrorism, let's look at it on a micro level.
Are the practitioners of terrorism blowing themselves up? Did bin Laden saddle up on 9/11? Of course not - those using terrorism for their ends exploit others, keeping themselves largely out of harm's way. Such has been the way of the world since we started throwing rocks at each other.
This argument is too ludicrous to continue. Let's defend the sanity of Iran and it's hard-liners in power while refuting the support of the youth. Fu*king unbelievable.
I don't have a personal interest in the matter, so sure - I'll "defend" or "refute" whatever the facts tell me to. As an atheist, I'm hardly one to support a fundamentalist theocracy - but that disagreement doesn't make them insane.
I don't believe that repeating hot-button words (terrorism!) or value pronouncements constitutes a reasonable argument.
"I know because I know." This is not an argument.
But I never implied this. I am a student of history (not to the extent of GutshotJohn, perhaps) and always stay on top of international events. I know things that I took the time to educate myself with, factual things. It is your argument that is going in circles.
No, it's not irrational. "Terrorism" is no more or less rational than conventional warfare.
Astounding. This is where we can gracefully part ways.
But I never implied this. I am a student of history (not to the extent of GutshotJohn, perhaps) and always stay on top of international events. I know things that I took the time to educate myself with, factual things. It is your argument that is going in circles.
Yes, you're now making an appeal to your personal authority on all things Iran. Unfortunately, your authority is unconvincing.
Astounding. This is where we can gracefully part ways.
Why? What is inherently irrational about "terrorism"?
Please forgive me if I am speaking out of turn, and maybe I am too simplistic, but here goes.
The Middle east has the oil.
We need the oil.
We have some of the best engineers in the World, well maybe not just some, actually a whole bunch.
Can we not find a domestic way to run our ground transportation, not on oil.
We have underwater craft that run without gas, I know there is a million reasons that my thoughts are non starters? Greed being one, big business being linked.
The middle east is still in the stone age, stop buying their oil, they will slip back in to it more.
They thrive on hate, and a religion that convinces people how good it will be when the blow themselves to bits as a human bomb! Having all these virgins, that they will not know what to do with, said virgins not having much fun, they have been mutilated to make sure they don't!
Hullo!
Our Military are over there, standing in between a myriad of people who hate each other, and they live there! Our guys are standing in between them, just getting themselves crippled and killed, to stop them killing each other!
One more time... Hullo.
Hullo!
While this point is good and on the money.....don't think of our goals. Think about the Salafist goals of controlling the world through Islamic Ideology. Whether we are there or not since the world gets its oil from the region the world will continue to fund the region and allow the Salafist movement to continue to expand and radicalize youth wherever they go. The oil money is a major factor in the spread of Islam so the "problem" with terrorists will continue until all recognize and pray to Allah. Just a counter point. Outlaw5
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.