View Full Version : Islam Muslim Demographics and Birth Rates
I have found an interesting video while surfing the net. I just wanted to share it with everyone to get your thoughts. Its pretty scary stuff really. I have also herd the content in the video isn't quite accurate. Their is another video down playing this one.
Osama said he was going to take over the "Western World" with out every firing a weapon...This could be the way it goes down.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e0U5Kw57iv4
(you may have to copy and paste the link)
Later
Shane
I see a lot of Fear mongering but not a lot of facts. Especially about the birth rate.
But the entire Video Boils down to ON NOES THEY ARE DIFFERENT AND WILL TAKE US ALL OVER!!!
Seems to me to be thinly veiled Racism.
Their is verification of most of the statistics in the video....
Last time I checked a religious base did not constitue a race...JMO
I just found it interesting, and to know that when I have kids and grandchildren they will be living in a society dominated by Islam...
Statistics are one of the most easily misused tools in existence.
They are extrapolating data from today and ignoring normal Social and economic factors that cause these numbers to fluctuate. It is a method often used when a person or group is trying to push an agenda on the under informed. I see it a lot in the creationist movement, along with quote mining and flat out lies.
For instance. The idea of a population not being able to recover if the birth rate slips to 1.3 is based on old world economy where the work force was labor intensive and life spans were short.
Then they go on to assume that immigration statistics will stay the same over the next 20-40 years. This does not have any historical precedence. These numbers fluctuate and always have.
And of course lets not forget the Fear mongering. "40% of the Russian military will be Muslim in the future" Once again they are taking one data point and expanding on it to fit their agenda. Although I give them credit for trying to mix two fear into one. Many of us are old enough to remember the Cold war. So now they are mixing the old fear of Russia with the new one of Muslim Extremist. Unethical sure. But still a very calculated move on their part.
However the video lost even the tiniest bit of credibility it may have had when it ended with a call to action to spread the gospel.
I don't want to live under Islamic rule. But I also don't want to live under Christian rule. Both are equally bad as a government, and I dislike both religions equally. However they both have a right to exist, just not as any form of leadership.
I'm by no means a bible thumper. I do not fear any religion as I will never conform to a single set of ideals, but I do believe that this country will have a dominace shift in religions to a Islamic venue. This would not be a good thing in my opinion. I also understand that their are extremeist views for all religions going, but Islamic extremeist are the scariest. If you will not conform you shall die. No other religion that I know of has views as such and uses violence as the medium to fullfill that ideal.
Just imagine America under Sharia Law...I wonder the number of non Islamic extremeist that support this belief set. America is changing...so time will tell.
Actually we know a religion quite well that used violence and hate to push it's message. Christianity. Now of course things have changed over time, but there was a point in history when Christianity did the exact same thing that Islam is doing today.
The difference was the tools. The Dark and middle ages didn't have Guns, bombs, and other modern weapons. If there had been weapons like we see today then the crusades would probably have seen an ending of life in a large portion of Europe and the Middle East.
The Crusades, the Inquisition, etc all happened at a time when the Islamic world was in a time of huge scientific progression. The church saw science as an evil that had to be stopped and it held most of Europe back. Now fast forward to modern times, religion still sees science as evil but has lots it's hold on most of society. Islamic countries have fallen into the same pitfall but the idiots at the top still have enough control over the population to impose their backwards views on the general populace. So the Islamic world is socially where the Christians were during the middle ages.
It is my belief that eventually this too will pass just as it has with every other religion.
I do not hide my views. I feel that this world would be better off without ANY religion, Islam, Christianity, Judaism, etc are all dangerous to the progression of society. However I find the idea of the spread of Islam being more dangerous than the spread of any other religion to be a false argument. Mainly because what these number fail to take into account is that almost all of these Muslims who are spreading are not different from you or I. People who believe what they believe and go about their normal life working, and living.
Sure there are the extremist, and the simple minded who can get pulled into such extremism, but they are not the group as a whole. For instance, I know 8 households in my neighborhood. One of these is a Muslim household. I have mentioned them before. Does this mean that 1/8 of the people I know are somehow dangerous? According to the video you linked yes they are. Reality just doesn't play out that way however. It is more likely the "good christian guy" who used to live next door is a danger, as is evident by the swat team breaking in his front door at 10PM one night.
P.S.
I understand that you didn't write or narroate this. I am responding to the video more than to you!
P.S. This is why I prefer Cats to Humans!
I do agree that religion is the root of all evil in this world today. Turn on any national news channel to verify that typically.
But I feel that the normal run of the mill Muslims that are just like you and I with a different belief set should be watched of sorts. Not literally, but figuratively. The word of Islam is basically a world of Muslim ideals and they will stop at no cost to fullfill this.
Your statements about the foundation of Christianity are correct many centuries ago. Their was violence. I'm sure it was terrible to have lived in that time frame if you where not a believer. But Average run of the mill Christians then let it happen, as modern day run of the mill Muslims will.
You said it best, the weaponry and tooling availabe during the middle ages is much different than what it is today with current technology. So fast forward to that same movement in the middle ages happening today, regardless of the sect, and it is pretty scary what could happen with items available to them today. Not to mention the sacraficial views and overall lack of humanity for their own die hard believers like suicide bombers.
That is why I believe people need to wake up to whats going on. If everyone lets this happen, we will soon be outnumberd and forced into a religion we have belief in, or die.
I think both of us would be dead, along with our families for not having any strong religioius beliefs either way.
JMO
PS...I understand
PS...LOL
Belmont31R
12-06-09, 12:48
Actually we know a religion quite well that used violence and hate to push it's message. Christianity. Now of course things have changed over time, but there was a point in history when Christianity did the exact same thing that Islam is doing today.
The difference was the tools. The Dark and middle ages didn't have Guns, bombs, and other modern weapons. If there had been weapons like we see today then the crusades would probably have seen an ending of life in a large portion of Europe and the Middle East.
The Crusades, the Inquisition, etc all happened at a time when the Islamic world was in a time of huge scientific progression. The church saw science as an evil that had to be stopped and it held most of Europe back. Now fast forward to modern times, religion still sees science as evil but has lots it's hold on most of society. Islamic countries have fallen into the same pitfall but the idiots at the top still have enough control over the population to impose their backwards views on the general populace. So the Islamic world is socially where the Christians were during the middle ages.
It is my belief that eventually this too will pass just as it has with every other religion.
I do not hide my views. I feel that this world would be better off without ANY religion, Islam, Christianity, Judaism, etc are all dangerous to the progression of society. However I find the idea of the spread of Islam being more dangerous than the spread of any other religion to be a false argument. Mainly because what these number fail to take into account is that almost all of these Muslims who are spreading are not different from you or I. People who believe what they believe and go about their normal life working, and living.
Sure there are the extremist, and the simple minded who can get pulled into such extremism, but they are not the group as a whole. For instance, I know 8 households in my neighborhood. One of these is a Muslim household. I have mentioned them before. Does this mean that 1/8 of the people I know are somehow dangerous? According to the video you linked yes they are. Reality just doesn't play out that way however. It is more likely the "good christian guy" who used to live next door is a danger, as is evident by the swat team breaking in his front door at 10PM one night.
P.S.
I understand that you didn't write or narroate this. I am responding to the video more than to you!
P.S. This is why I prefer Cats to Humans!
The Crusades were a short period in history, and what percent of Christians participated in them? Less than 1%?
Religion has been a tool of tyranny but so has many other non-religious based societies such as the 3rd Reich, the 30's-60's USSR, and late 40's & 50's China.
So the correlation to religion = hinders progression of society is false.
Also point out the US has a high percentage of religious people, and we have advanced society as a whole more in 200 years than the previous 2000 combined.
I am not religious at all (maybe if you want to call naturalism a religion) yet don't think religion is bad in and of itself. Some people use religion as an excuse for murder, tyranny, and oppression. Some people use being anti-religion for the same purpose, and you can make a valid argument that in the recent past of humanity (last 100 years) the anti-religion folks have done a lot more killing than the religious people. Add up the Nazis, USSR, and the Mao era China, and its easily more than anything else of the same time period.
Yes the US has a lot of religious people (although that number is on the decline) However we are not a Religious country. We are not ruled by any religion nor are we allowed to be. And while there is no question that we have made great progress in the US, just think where we could be.
For the love of god (haha I know bad humor) we still have people trying to push Creationism and ID in schools. We have religion opposing Science at every turn and not having an understanding of what the scientific process even is. So no thankfully our government can not be religious, but religion has still done it's best to stifle progress. This is especially evident in the Medical field. Genetic testing, fertility and birth control, stem cell research, etc. And you think Christianity is bad? Whooooo buddy! Strict Islam makes us look downright progressive over here. So don't think I am just targeting Christianity, they just make an easier example.
And while the Governments of Russia and China were anti religious, you can not tie them to all Atheist any more than you can say all Christians are child rapist just because some Child rapists are Christians.
And for the Record Hitler was quite religious and used it in his propaganda. But lets be honest. He was just plain bat shit crazy so I think we can all agree he isn't a good example of anything except being crazy and needing to die..
I would also say it is hard to call the crusades a short period of time. They went on for around 200 years which is ~10% of the modern calender. And of course a large portion of Christianity did not participate in them directly. Armies were only so large. But they were authorized and encouraged from he top and supported by a great many people both in the population and leadership.
I will correct myself though and concede a point to you. religion in and of itself if not a bad thing. However using a religion, any religion, to further a social agenda at the cost of the truth is an atrocity. This can be forcing your beliefs onto others, killing others because they believe differently, or just using your belief to try to deny truth. This is when I start having a problem with religion. And of the 3 Abrahamic religions, only Judaism seems to have moved away from this. Of course that gets us into the stages of religions and that is a topic for another time.
By the way, I do love a good debate and am glad we can keep it civil so hopefully the Mods won't beat us with a big stick and lock the thread. :D I am going out for beer and football with some Friends. But I will be back later guys.
P.S. I wonder if this is how Judaism felt about Christianity when it was on the rise? It just occurred to me and is food for thought.
The Crusades were a short period in history, and what percent of Christians participated in them? Less than 1%?
Religion has been a tool of tyranny but so has many other non-religious based societies such as the 3rd Reich, the 30's-60's USSR, and late 40's & 50's China.
So the correlation to religion = hinders progression of society is false.
Also point out the US has a high percentage of religious people, and we have advanced society as a whole more in 200 years than the previous 2000 combined.
I am not religious at all (maybe if you want to call naturalism a religion) yet don't think religion is bad in and of itself. Some people use religion as an excuse for murder, tyranny, and oppression. Some people use being anti-religion for the same purpose, and you can make a valid argument that in the recent past of humanity (last 100 years) the anti-religion folks have done a lot more killing than the religious people. Add up the Nazis, USSR, and the Mao era China, and its easily more than anything else of the same time period.
SW-Shooter
12-06-09, 21:42
They will take over the world.
Yes the US has a lot of religious people (although that number is on the decline) However we are not a Religious country. We are not ruled by any religion nor are we allowed to be. And while there is no question that we have made great progress in the US, just think where we could be.
this unfortunately misconception is to blame for the current a-theist and agnostic jihad against the last tendrils of christianity in this country. until the 1960s, this wasn't just a "religious country," it was a christian country- ruled by open christians who prayed to Jesus at the opening and closing of political assemblies and public addresses. our law is based on judeo-christian morality. the left's own beloved FDR invoked the name of Jesus in every public address he gave in three terms as president. the now-minority truly evangelical christians in this country have finally been shunned, stigmatized, and plain beaten down enough that we're finally pushing back against the rapid illegalization of our religion, which the other side is using as evidence that we're somehow taking over the country. couldn't be farther from the truth- at least you acknowledge we're on the decline.
For the love of god (haha I know bad humor) we still have people trying to push Creationism and ID in schools. We have religion opposing Science at every turn and not having an understanding of what the scientific process even is. So no thankfully our government can not be religious, but religion has still done it's best to stifle progress. This is especially evident in the Medical field. Genetic testing, fertility and birth control, stem cell research, etc. And you think Christianity is bad?
with all of these "improvements" comes a cost. publicly educated Americans have been so indoctinated in the idea of progression that the idea that perhaps some of these so called "advancements" will, and are, contributing to the extinction of not only our race, but our species, never even occurs. fortunately, being the literalistic, fundamentalist christian that i am, i don't believe the world will continue long enough to fully suffer from the dead-stop of physiological evolution, gene contamination, and all the horrors that are sure to come from stem-cell and gnome research.
And for the Record Hitler was quite religious and used it in his propaganda. But lets be honest. He was just plain bat shit crazy so I think we can all agree he isn't a good example of anything except being crazy and needing to die.
actually, for the record, hitler was basically un-religious. he did use some theistic themes in his master-race propaganda, but it wasn't pushed very hard- no germans were forced or even encouraged to be any particular religion. he had no religious leaders, didn't attend any church, didnt observe any religious rules or customs, and certainly wasn't anything close to "christian."
I would also say it is hard to call the crusades a short period of time. They went on for around 200 years which is ~10% of the modern calender. And of course a large portion of Christianity did not participate in them directly. Armies were only so large. But they were authorized and encouraged from he top and supported by a great many people both in the population and leadership.
in a 200 year time-span, 29 years of campaigning took place with about half that in active combat operations... 15 years is hardly 200 years. during these 29 years, all the classical atrocities associated with midieval warfare were committed- but christians were generally too busy getting their asses handed to them to subject any populations to their religion.
and let's not forget the most important part of this equation: christians were fighting to reclaim the holy lands from muslim invasion
I will correct myself though and concede a point to you. religion in and of itself if not a bad thing. However using a religion, any religion, to further a social agenda at the cost of the truth is an atrocity. This can be forcing your beliefs onto others, killing others because they believe differently, or just using your belief to try to deny truth.
science is the broad term used to describe the mother religion which birthed the individual sects being forced on christians who are doing their best to hold onto truth. how is that not an atrocity? because i don't buy your religion you'd like to see mine wiped out.
Actually we know a religion quite well that used violence and hate to push it's message. Christianity. Now of course things have changed over time, but there was a point in history when Christianity did the exact same thing that Islam is doing today.
and YOU are doing the exact same thing you just criticized about the video- skewing the facts to push your agenda. do you really think you can compare christianity to islam in this regard? the spanish inquisition is a dark stain on religion as a whole, but to claim that it's even related to modern christianity is absurd. first of all, islam began chopping heads off infidels before there was a spain to have an inquisition. secondly, christianity was never jihaded into any culture- europe was vastly christian long before inquisitors began torturing a small, select-few individuals who didn't buy their brand of christianity. and this wasn't a symptom of religion- it was a classic example of the evil of "absolute power." as stated, far worse examples are readily available from a-theistic totalitarian bodies.
islam invaded entire regions of the globe, putting to death all who wouldn't convert to islam on the spot- putting to death many more who didn't even get the option. mass slaughterings.. the great prophet himself claimed to have personally beheaded over 500 infidels on his own, and he was an otherwise busy guy. do you honestly think christianity and islam are comparable? contrary to your claims, and probably popular opinion- christianity has never been forced upon a population at the edge of a sword on any measurable scale.
The Crusades, the Inquisition, etc all happened at a time when the Islamic world was in a time of huge scientific progression. The church saw science as an evil that had to be stopped and it held most of Europe back.
i'm not sure how you've come to this conclusion.. there was literally no science during the period of history known as the Dark Ages.. that's why religion was so important. the fall of Rome led to complete scientific darkness. mathmatics, astronomy, medicine, engineering, etc... nonexistant. despite a shitty form of government in the roman catholic church, advancement did occure- and a lot of times because the church commissioned research in particular areas of study. western civilization would have most likely fallen into barbarianism without the maintainence of history, education and order the church provided. despite the retardedness of the catholic church, it held europe together after the single greatest collapse of civilization the world still has ever seen.
However I find the idea of the spread of Islam being more dangerous than the spread of any other religion to be a false argument. Mainly because what these number fail to take into account is that almost all of these Muslims who are spreading are not different from you or I. People who believe what they believe and go about their normal life working, and living.
when did YHWH or Jesus ever tell people to kill nonbelievers? the Bible, old and new testaments, explicitly command believers to be hospitable to non-believers- to observe their customs when in their countries and to allow non-believers to observe their own customs when in ours. we're encouraged to "share the gospel," and nothing else, in efforts to convert people. yes- God commanded Israel to wipe out entire populations at select few times, but that's all over now. there are no more prophets coming- from this point, we're to endure this world until our Savior returns.
islam, by severe contrast, commands it's believers to kill all infidels if they will not convert. according to islam, it is the duty of all believers to spread islam across the world at the point of the sword. a true bible-believing christian like myself is no danger to you. a true koran-believing muslim will kill you if he can. big difference.
this unfortunately misconception is to blame for the current a-theist and agnostic jihad against the last tendrils of christianity in this country. until the 1960s, this wasn't just a "religious country," it was a christian country- ruled by open christians who prayed to Jesus at the opening and closing of political assemblies and public addresses. our law is based on judeo-christian morality. the left's own beloved FDR invoked the name of Jesus in every public address he gave in three terms as president. the now-minority truly evangelical christians in this country have finally been shunned, stigmatized, and plain beaten down enough that we're finally pushing back against the rapid illegalization of our religion, which the other side is using as evidence that we're somehow taking over the country. couldn't be farther from the truth- at least you acknowledge we're on the decline.
There is a difference between someone in leadership being Christian and our country being Christian. The supposed Judeo-Christian morality actually goes back further than the Religions of Abraham and is found in parts of the world that were not touched by these religion, if not in their exact form at least in part. Another interesting note. Many of the founding fathers were Diest, not devout Christians.
I also bring in an important document. The treaty of Tripoli in 1796 the following was said.
Art. 11. As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen; and, as the said States never entered into any war, or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties, that no pretext arising from religious opinions, shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries
Interesting to see how much bearing this has on modern time by the way if you replace Pirates with Terrorist in the wording.
And the claim of Your religion being made illegal is not only false but a blatant attempt to skew the facts. No religion is illegal in this country, nor should it be. However religion is a deeply personal matter that has no place in the public setting through either education or government. It should be in church and home is a person so chooses.
Some claim that you can't have morals without religion but this is patently false. We are by nature social beings with a hard wired desire to better not only ourselves but our species. It is in furtherance of this that our moral code has been put to paper. Other social species show the same desires and actions whether it be other forms of Apes, insect, or various other animals.
[/QUOTE]
with all of these "improvements" comes a cost. publicly educated Americans have been so indoctinated in the idea of progression that the idea that perhaps some of these so called "advancements" will, and are, contributing to the extinction of not only our race, but our species, never even occurs. fortunately, being the literalistic, fundamentalist christian that i am, i don't believe the world will continue long enough to fully suffer from the dead-stop of physiological evolution, gene contamination, and all the horrors that are sure to come from stem-cell and gnome research.
For the record I didn't have public education. I was raised in a religious household and taught in Private Religious schools. But I was also taught to think for myself. Something I am grateful for. And many students of any type of school don't get.
I am curious as to something you said above.
and are, contributing to the extinction of not only our race, but our species
Perhaps I am reading this wrong but it sounds a bit... Well lets just say it disturbs me the way that Is worded and I would like to hear clarification before I respond to that part.
Outside of this though you are showing a lack of understanding of what is involved with Stem Cell and Gene research. These are not going to lead to the contamination of the human genome. They are leading to the possible cure for diseases that have plagued mankind for as long as we have walked on two legs.
Despite what many people think, scientist is not some gung ho, progress at any cost institution. Science by its, nature doubts and questions and is cautious. The Peer review process is a meat grinder that will attack the slightest flaw or danger in an idea.
actually, for the record, hitler was basically un-religious. he did use some theistic themes in his master-race propaganda, but it wasn't pushed very hard- no germans were forced or even encouraged to be any particular religion. he had no religious leaders, didn't attend any church, didnt observe any religious rules or customs, and certainly wasn't anything close to "christian."
Hitler used religion as a weapon. He would quote the bible when it suited him and ignore it when it didn't As I said. I think we can all agree that he was bat shit insane and does not represent modern Christianity.
in a 200 year time-span, 29 years of campaigning took place with about half that in active combat operations... 15 years is hardly 200 years. during these 29 years, all the classical atrocities associated with midieval warfare were committed- but christians were generally too busy getting their asses handed to them to subject any populations to their religion.
and let's not forget the most important part of this equation: christians were fighting to reclaim the holy lands from muslim invasion
First we need to remember that the Holy land is also the Muslim Holy land. They share the same god with you, even if they practice differently.
I am not going to argue who was good and who was bad. Frankly both sides were bad. One invaded the other, then got invaded themselves. then killed or converted the population, then it all happened again. It is a scar upon history and one that people seem to ignore.
science is the broad term used to describe the mother religion which birthed the individual sects being forced on christians who are doing their best to hold onto truth. how is that not an atrocity? because i don't buy your religion you'd like to see mine wiped out.
Wow. Ummm There is a lot of misconceptions here.
First off Science is not a religion. Religions require worship and faith. Science is based on facts. 2+2=4 is a true statement and is easily provable. it does not require faith nor worship. The way that the human body works can be shown and proven through testing and observation and therefore saying that blood exposed to oxygen turns red is a truth.
Now religion on the other hand requires Faith. You BELIEVE in something that is not provable. As long as this doesn't conflict with the truth then I don't think this is a bad thing. You can believe in god. This is your prerogative, however you can not PROVE god.
For instance, say I was to believe that water at room temperature is solid. I can believe this. I can write about it. However testing would prove this to be a mistaken belief. No matter how much I want to believe that water is a solid at room temperature, I would be incorrect. I can not stand on it. I can not hold it, I can not cut it. At this point I am faced with two choices. Abandon my incorrect belief that water is solid and accept what is proven, or continue to deny the proof before me.
Now this is not to say you should not believe in god. That, once again is something deeply personal that science does not discuss. What science does discuss is what can be proven.
–noun, plural truths /truðz, truθs/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [troothz, trooths]
1. the true or actual state of a matter: .
2. conformity with fact or reality; verity: the truth of a statement.
3. a verified or indisputable fact, proposition, principle, or the like: mathematical truths.
There are more but I truncated it to save space here. But I got it off Dictionary.com so you can go look at the rest if you wish.
Truth is defines as something that is the actual state of a matter. Something that i provable is by definition true. So your statement that Christianity is holding onto what is "true" is actually false. Christianity is holding not what they believe. And unless it goes against what is otherwise proven, then science doesn't care.
[/QUOTE]
and YOU are doing the exact same thing you just criticized about the video- skewing the facts to push your agenda. do you really think you can compare christianity to islam in this regard? the spanish inquisition is a dark stain on religion as a whole, but to claim that it's even related to modern christianity is absurd. first of all, islam began chopping heads off infidels before there was a spain to have an inquisition. secondly, christianity was never jihaded into any culture- europe was vastly christian long before inquisitors began torturing a small, select-few individuals who didn't buy their brand of christianity. and this wasn't a symptom of religion- it was a classic example of the evil of "absolute power." as stated, far worse examples are readily available from a-theistic totalitarian bodies.
Actually I have skewed no facts whatsoever. I have presented them and my argument.
Christianity has declared few all out wars yes. (Ignoring the Crusades for now). What it was really good at was twisting the local pagan rituals and using them to indoctrinate new people with minimal impact. That Christmas tree I bet you have in your house just like I do is a pagan symbol. Easter took its dates from Pagan fertility festivals, and the list goes on.
[/QUOTE]
islam invaded entire regions of the globe, putting to death all who wouldn't convert to islam on the spot- putting to death many more who didn't even get the option. mass slaughterings.. the great prophet himself claimed to have personally beheaded over 500 infidels on his own, and he was an otherwise busy guy. do you honestly think christianity and islam are comparable? contrary to your claims, and probably popular opinion- christianity has never been forced upon a population at the edge of a sword on any measurable scale.
To the same extent? No. But Christianity has used the convert or die method more than a few times. And you keep marginalizing the Inquisition, crusades, etc. Yes I do equate those to the same issues we currently face with Islam. I think the comparison is very relevant.
i'm not sure how you've come to this conclusion.. there was literally no science during the period of history known as the Dark Ages.. that's why religion was so important. the fall of Rome led to complete scientific darkness. mathmatics, astronomy, medicine, engineering, etc... nonexistant. despite a shitty form of government in the roman catholic church, advancement did occure- and a lot of times because the church commissioned research in particular areas of study. western civilization would have most likely fallen into barbarianism without the maintainence of history, education and order the church provided. despite the retardedness of the catholic church, it held europe together after the single greatest collapse of civilization the world still has ever seen.
In the 7 and 800s Islam has Hospitals, libraries, and even astronomical observatories. These and other great advancements continued till the 12th century or so when we start to see the decline leading up to the Islam we see today which forces an almost 3rd world form of living on its people.
I am curious as to this advancement from the Christian churches. Was that before, during, or after they finished persecuting men such as Galileo and banning their works?
when did YHWH or Jesus ever tell people to kill nonbelievers? the Bible, old and new testaments, explicitly command believers to be hospitable to non-believers- to observe their customs when in their countries and to allow non-believers to observe their own customs when in ours. we're encouraged to "share the gospel," and nothing else, in efforts to convert people. yes- God commanded Israel to wipe out entire populations at select few times, but that's all over now. there are no more prophets coming- from this point, we're to endure this world until our Savior returns.
Are you really trying to say that the OT does not talk of killing? I have seen less bloodshed in Quinton tarentino Movies!
For example :
This is what the LORD Almighty says: 'I will punish the Amalekites for what they did to Israel when they waylaid them as they came up from Egypt. Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy everything that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys. (1st Sam 15:2-3)
Pretty harsh in my opinion. But hey what do I know right?
islam, by severe contrast, commands it's believers to kill all infidels if they will not convert. according to islam, it is the duty of all believers to spread islam across the world at the point of the sword. a true bible-believing christian like myself is no danger to you. a true koran-believing muslim will kill you if he can. big difference.
I know Quran reading Muslims and Bible reading Christians. I see little difference between them in mindset or danger. I also have seen fundamentalist on both sides that scar the hell out of me.
The true danger from any religion comes when people try to replace reality with their own twisted view of it. Sometimes they are a danger to a small number of people such as with a suicide bomb. Other times they are a danger to society as a whole such as denying science and the advancements if can bring us. All religions do this. Or more appropriately some followers of all religions do this. It is a perversion of what they claim to believe.
If there was a god would he or she or it, want us to hold ourselves back? To fear knowledge and truth? If a god did that then it is not worthy of worship and instead worthy of only our pity. But even when I did believe in a god I never believed in a god like that. I was raised to believe in a god of Love and understanding. Once that accepted all and looked into our hearts, not our color or creed.
I know look to truth instead of faith. But that does not change my understanding of how I was raised and what I learned in that time. Despite what you probably think I don't hate religion, nor do I hate anyone who is a person of faith. I would stand right beside you to defend your right to worship as you see fit. If you or someone else wanted to believe that the world was created by little green men who got bored one day I would laugh at you, and then fight tooth and nail to make sure you could continue to believe that.
But my defense of a religion stops at the point it start to ask us all to believe something that is false and tries to force that upon society. At that point it crosses over from religion to rule. And that is something I do not believe religion should do.
That Christmas tree I bet you have in your house just like I do is a pagan symbol. Easter took its dates from Pagan fertility festivals, and the list goes on.
nope. we don't taint holy days with pagan rituals and decorations in my house.. so no tree here. and no stupid eggs on easter, either.
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