View Full Version : Worst batch of Wolf primers ever
Tons of 223 brass sitting around, so I ordered 8K Wolf magnums through Wideners. Did a little plinking with the kids while visiting family and kept having malfunctions left and right. Didn't think much about it as I was clearing rounds to get them back shooting. Get home, start digging through what was picked up, and out of the 100-150 rounds fired 15 of them have deeply dimpled primers that didn't go bang.
This was out of my ADS Alpha that has had 2K or so rounds through it and that has never failed to ignite everything I'm thrown at it. Powder was the same jug of N135 that I've shot 500 or so out of with no issue. The only change being the new Wolf primers. I've never had a single hiccup from the exact same setup through the exact same rifle with the last box of CCI primers that I fed it.
That really sucks, as I bought the whole batch because I've heard nothing but excellent recommendations for their primers. If this ratio holds true, I can look forward to around 800 duds in the near future.
One thought and a question:
You might wnat to replace your hammer spring if it has many rounds on it. Hammer velocity may be a little low. Its a cheap fix, just a thought.
Have you ever tried Wolf regular small rifle primers? If so, any issues with piercing or leakage? I bought a couple thousand over a year ago but haven't used them yet. I'd heard later you should use the magnum variety due to the stronger cups, so I'm a little apprehensive about using these, but I've used other mfg's regular SR primers w/o incident.
I too bought 10k Wolf SRM primers from Wideners. I am on my 2nd thousand. Not a single failure out of two different AR's. I bought them #1, because it was available. 2- I had also heard good things. right now, I'm very happy with their performance.
One of the unfired. If this strike didn't do it, I'm not sure what would.
http://www.gsmedia.com/183857-7749.jpg
I had one of those and it looked exactly like your picture.
I was able to diagnose the problem as I had just cleaned my rifle the night before and on the second mag started to get hangfires. I tore down the bolt as I was suspicious about the firing pin. It was due to oil on the firing pin that had gotten in the firing pin recess near the extractor and slowed it just enough to not ignite the primers properly. Blasted the bolt out with some brake cleaner, cleaned the firing pin, re-lubed carefully and reassembled. It went bang without problem.
The thicker primer cups require significant speed and force (on the order of 22 ft lbs) to make them go bang.
From that pic, it appears that your primer was not seated properly. They should be slightly recessed and that one looks to be sticking out some. Without slightly stressing the priming compound under the envil, you will get missfires.
Gary - what was your lot/batch #?
I have loaded and loaded Wolf Primers and knock on wood - been really good-to-go.
Wow thanks for the heads up.
MarshallDodge
12-19-09, 19:23
I agree with the primer not being seated correctly.....at least that is what it looks like in the photo.
I have used Wolf large pistol primers and they are harder to seat than the Federal or Winchester that I am familiar with. I have shot around 500 so far in three different pistols without an issue.
From that pic, it appears that your primer was not seated properly. They should be slightly recessed and that one looks to be sticking out some. Without slightly stressing the priming compound under the envil, you will get missfires.
That was my first impression when I looked at the picture. I used to run into a similar problem while shooting my 45 ACP reloads. It turns out the improperly seated primers would be seated by the force of the firing pin striking it. There would be a mark from the firing pin, but it wouldn't be as deep as a normal firing pin mark. I could take the same round, load it and fire it with no problem.
I'll throw another vote in for improper seat.
I ran into the same thing when speer changed the primer well dimensions on the 357sig Lazy S brass. I had been using CCI's with a nickle coating. when they changed it the well was so tight that not only did they not seat all the way sometimes, sometime they would just crush.
I think I replaced every spring on two guns before I figured that one out.
the reason the primer doesn't go off is that when the pin hits, if the anvil isn't seated against the bottom of the well it just knocks the anvil down and then you've already got a dent and there's nothing between the cup and the anvil to go ignite.
I also agree with the primer not being seated correctly. Although the dimpling could have caused that appearance.
Wolf primers tend to be a few thousanths small others. And they have to be seated deep enough. If you hold a business card againt the back of the case & primer, you should see light coming through a gap between the card & primer.
Anytime you change something in your reloading mix, you have to thoroughly check everthing through the process. Your old settings (recipe) won't work because you have new things (ingredients) in the mix.
One way you can test if it is your primer is to make an empty load - , primer, case (no powder or projectile). Put on your eye & ear protection, find a safe target & background, and see if it fires. It's not a great test, but it can identify some problems. See if your bulging primers will fire or not. If you seat the primers deeper, are you having more success?
Once we adjusted our settings, we didn't have any problems. (Oh, and do pull any of these first batch out of your regular ammo, so it doesn't surprise you again!)
~wifey
HelloLarry
01-21-10, 13:02
Did you pull the bullets?
Was there any powder in the cases? I doubt it.
Did you pull the bullets?
Was there any powder in the cases? I doubt it.
I don't think so Larry. A SRM primer has enough oomph to bump the bullet into the barrel and make that scenario obvious to the shooter.
With wolf primers the compound is very visible/colorful. You can inspect them very easily before using them. I've never seen anything funky in any of my Wolf SRM or Large pistol primers.
This failure rate has to be something along the lines of improper seating. If the anvil isn't properly butted up into the pocket, the primer won't ignite.
HelloLarry
01-23-10, 17:30
I don't think so Larry. A SRM primer has enough oomph to bump the bullet into the barrel and make that scenario obvious to the shooter.
Not in my experience it doesn't, even with uncrimped ammo.
I will wait for Gary's reply. I hope he isn't embarrassed. Missing the charge in cases here and there happens to the best of us.
I will wait for Gary's reply. I hope he isn't embarrassed. Missing the charge in cases here and there happens to the best of us.
Possibly... but THAT MANY times?
For what it's worth, I don't miss powder charges any more. I visually check every piece of brass I put a bullet into. I think I did it one time 8 years ago when I was more worried about rate of production than quality.
I load slow these days and keep an eye on everything.
HelloLarry
01-24-10, 11:47
Yeah, I check them all too. But I still seem to end up with 3 or 4 per year out of about 4,000. :o
I had access to a progressive loader at one time. You should have seen how many rounds I could pump out with no powder using that thing! :D
I had access to a progressive loader at one time. You should have seen how many rounds I could pump out with no powder using that thing! :D
Yep. I load on a Dillon 550. And when that thing start acting up it's easy to get distracted when you're trying to uncluster a train wreck.
Not in my experience it doesn't, even with uncrimped ammo.
I will wait for Gary's reply. I hope he isn't embarrassed. Missing the charge in cases here and there happens to the best of us.
we used to drill out the flash hole in a .38 case and seat a primer in there. take the case and shove the open end into a block of canning wax. which then turns it in to a wax bullet. I never did get to chrony one, but they were moving.
that said, I've seen primers alone shove a bullet far enough into the throat that it takes a rod to knock it out.
that said, I've seen primers alone shove a bullet far enough into the throat that it takes a rod to knock it out.
That's what I'm thinking. I know I've seen a 38 spl. bump the bullet into the barrel, but who knows if there wasn't a partial powder charge in the case.
Also... is that a yellow primer? All of my WOLF SRMs are Silver.
Wolf Small Rifle are copper colored. Wolf Small Rifle magnum and 223 are brass colored. Old lots were nickel. This info per Wideners website.
HelloLarry
01-27-10, 09:34
I've seen primers alone shove a bullet far enough into the throat that it takes a rod to knock it out.
I certainly won't deny that it does happen, I'm just saying that it has never happened to me even using moly'd bullets in uncrimped cases seated to 2.25" for short range ammo or seated out to 2.6"+ with 80s. Point being that it's not a sure thing that the bullet is going to clear the case from just a primer going off.
I've seen guys leave the bullet in the throat just from removing an unfired round because they were seating the bullet to jam in the lands.
Wolf Small Rifle are copper colored. Wolf Small Rifle magnum and 223 are brass colored. Old lots were nickel. This info per Wideners website.
Ah.... I know I read somewhere that some of the Wolf Primers weren't Silver, but I couldn't remember which ones.
Anytime you change something in your reloading mix, you have to thoroughly check everthing through the process. Your old settings (recipe) won't work because you have new things (ingredients) in the mix.
~wifey
Words/actions to live by when reloading.
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