Mother of GOD. Have we forgotten?

[SW-Shooter]

This incident has never been fully reported by FOX or the MSM(Sean Hannity's forum briefly covered it). NEVER FORGET!

http://www.snopes.com/politics/religion/flight297.asp

http://espositosmusings.files.wordpress.com/2009/11/air-tran-flight-297-incident1.pdf

DISPUTE:http://www.ajc.com/business/airtran-hero-wasn-t-226517.html

Subject: Long story short....

One week ago, I
went to Ohio on business and to see my father. On
Tuesday, November the 17th, I returned home. If you
read the papers the 18th you may have seen a blurb where a
AirTran flight was cancelled from Atlanta to Houston due to
a man who refused to get off of his cell phone before
takeoff. It was on Fox News Channel.

This was NOT what happened.
I was in 1st class coming home. 11 Muslim men got on
the plane in full attire. 2 sat in 1st class and the
rest peppered themselves throughout the plane all the way to
the back. As the plane taxied to the runway the
stewardesses gave the safety spiel we are all so familiar
with. At that time, one of the men got on his cell and
called one of his companions in the back and proceeded to
talk on the phone in Arabic very loudly and very
aggressively. This took the 1st stewardess out of the
picture for she repeatedly told the man that cell phones
were not permitted at the time. He ignored her as if
she was not there.

The 2nd man who answered the phone did the same and this
took out the 2nd stewardess. In the back of the plane
at this time, 2 younger Muslims, one in the back aisle, and
one in front of him, window, began to show footage of a
porno they had taped the night before, and were very loud
about it. Now..they are only permitted to do this
prior to Jihad. If a Muslim man goes into a strip
club, he has to view the woman via mirror with his back to
her. (don't ask me..I don't make the rules,
but I've studied) The 3rd stewardess informed them
that they were not to have electronic devices on at this
time. To which one of the men said "shut up
infidel dog!" She went to take the camcorder and
he began to scream in her face in Arabic. At that
exact moment, all 11 of them got up and started to walk the
cabin. This is where I had had enough! I got up
and started to the back where I heard a voice behind me from
another Texan twice my size say "I got your
back." I grabbed the man who had been on the
phone by the arm and said "you WILL go sit down or you
Will be thrown from this plane!" As I
"led" him around me to take his seat, the fellow
Texan grabbed him by the back of his neck and his waist and
headed out with him. I then grabbed the 2nd man and
said, "You WILL do the same!" He protested
but adrenaline was flowing now and he was going to go.
As I escorted him forward the plane doors open and 3 TSA
agents and 4 police officers entered. Me and my new
Texan friend were told to cease and desist for they had this
under control. I was happy to oblige actually.
There was some commotion in the back, but within moments,
all 11 were escorted off the plane. They then unloaded
their luggage.

We talked about the occurrence and were in disbelief that
it had happen, when suddenly, the door open again and on
walked all 11!! Stone faced, eyes front and robotic
(the only way I can describe it). The stewardess from
the back had been in tears and when she saw this, she was
having NONE of it! Being that I was up front, I heard
and saw the whole ordeal. She told the TSA agent there
was NO WAY she was staying on the plane with these
men. The agent told her they had searched them and
were going to go through their luggage with a fine tooth
comb and that they were allowed to proceed to Houston.
The captain and co-captain came out and told the agent
"we and our crew will not fly this plane!"
After a word or two, the entire crew, luggage in tow, left
the plane. 5 minutes later, the cabin door opened
again and a whole new crew walked on.

Again...this is where I had had enough!!! I got up
and asked "What the hell is going on!?!?" I
was told to take my seat. They were sorry for the
delay and I would be home shortly. I said
"I'm getting off this plane". The
stewardess sternly told me that she could not allow me to
get off. (now I'm mad!) I said "I am a
grown man who bought this ticket, whose time is mine with a
family at home and I am going through that door, or I'm
going through that door with you under my arm!! But I
am going through that door!!" And I heard a voice
behind me say "so am I". Then everyone
behind us started to get up and say the same. Within 2
minutes, I was walking off that plane where I was met with
more agents who asked me to write a statement. I had 5
hours to kill at this point so why the hell not. Due
to the amount of people who got off that flight, it was
cancelled. I was supposed to be in Houston at
6pm. I got here at 12:30am.

Look up the date, Nov. 17, 2009, Flight #297, Atlanta to
Houston.

If this wasn't a dry run, I don't know what one
is. The terrorists wanted to see how TSA would handle
it, how the crew would handle it, and how the passengers
would handle it.

I'm telling this to you because I want you to know. The
threat is real. I saw it with my own eyes.

-Tedd

edited to bold:


Whether or not this is true(the accounts are mixed, but lean towards false), it just goes to show that you can never take safety for granted. Would you stand to react if faced with this situation, or will you merely watch.

[milosz]

I'm curious why you went ahead and posted the Snopes link that dismisses almost the entirety of the account?

EDIT: Along with a local paper refuting it.

What's the point in posting a clearly fictitious account designed to scare people?

[SHIVAN]

There's usually three stories. "His", "hers" and the actual truth.

It typically holds true for all sorts of stories the news reports.

[FromMyColdDeadHand]

I've seen another research site say that there are some parts of the story that are wrong. The author supposedly was on another flight when this was all going down. Now, I find that rather odd than just use some random name. It would be nice if this guy came forward. The other is that a flight crew can't leave a plan full of people without handing off to another crew directly.

I just hate when these things get everyone riled up and stuff ends up being wrong. I would love to see someone like Glenn Beck put this front and center and chase it down.

Obviously, something happened.

[SW-Shooter]

I'm curious why you went ahead and posted the Snopes link that dismisses almost the entirety of the account?

EDIT: Along with a local paper refuting it.

What's the point in posting a clearly fictitious account designed to scare people?


This is a discussion forum, it's something I wanted to discuss. That's why I provided links, text and my discussion. Nothing more than for discussions sake.

[theblackknight]

wierd? im not sure. my bullshit alarm hasnt went off yet.

[SteyrAUG]

Sounds to me like a CAIR stunt where they get Muslims to look and act like terrorists and then see what happens.

If nothing happens they note the particulars for future events.

If something does happen, they can then claim harassment and racism, etc.

I never used to understand how old people could harbor resentment against the Japanese decades after the end of the war. Following 9-11 I understand.

I was on a plane a few years ago with a Muslim family where the Dad wore a skull cap and the wife wore a head scarf and I was extremely uncomfortable being on the plan with them. They even had a small child but to me it was like sitting next to a bunch of guys wearing prison orange.

The last two times I went home to Iowa I made the decision to drive rather than fly.

[Gentoo]

A plane full of people and no cell phone video of this incident has popped up on youtube yet?

Gotta lean towards BS personally.

[glocktogo]

The incident is verifiable, but the specifics of what exactly happened and why haven't been. You have eyewitness reports saying it's one thing and an unverifiable internet "source" saying it's something completely different.

FWIW, eyewitness accounts are notoriously unreliable. What the one woman interviewed by the press reports may well have been true, but not accurately depict every aspect of what went on in the cabin of the aircraft on the whole. Hypothertically, if she was in 6A, how would she know what happened in 22E?

I've worked several cases where a FA claimed a pax was interfering with the flight crew, when everyone else in the vicinity of the incident said it was a case of poor customer service. I've also seen cases where every indication points towards a dry run or intel gathering.

I'm leaning the same way SHIVAN is on this one though. We may never know exactly what happened.

[SW-Shooter]

A plane full of people and no cell phone video of this incident has popped up on youtube yet?

Gotta lean towards BS personally.


If that makes you sleep well at night, so be it.

[Gentoo]

If that makes you sleep well at night, so be it.

:rolleyes:

Get real. We have at best, spurious and dissimilar stories from a wide variety of dubious sources. Have you ever spoken to witnesses to a story in an attempt to gather information about what happened? I have. The stories that come back are sometimes so off the wall inaccurate its laughable. So pardon me if I give this a healthy dose of skepticism.

I suggest you loosen up the tinfoil and get some sleep.

[SteyrAUG]

A plane full of people and no cell phone video of this incident has popped up on youtube yet?

Gotta lean towards BS personally.



A plane full of people who were told they could NOT use their cellphones at the time.

[Gentoo]

A plane full of people who were told they could NOT use their cellphones at the time.

And this is the same plane full of people who started a commotion and refused to fly with the "suspected terrorists"?

So, which are they? Blind little pansies who couldn't muster the balls to turn on a cell phone camera to tape some juicy shit or rebels refusing to fly? You can't have it both ways.

[LockenLoad]

And this is the same plane full of people who started a commotion and refused to fly with the "suspected terrorists"?

So, which are they? Blind little pansies who couldn't muster the balls to turn on a cell phone camera to tape some juicy shit or rebels refusing to fly? You can't have it both ways.

law abiding citizens, who obeyed the rules at first, but when they let a bunch of Muslim creeps back on, feared for there lives, assaulting the stewardess was enough to arrest the one guy alone and they let him back on? We put up with this Islam crap, but still have grand ma take off her shoes at the airport, sorry but I have lost most of my faith with authority of any kind in this country.

[Mac5.56]

law abiding citizens, who obeyed the rules at first, but when they let a bunch of Muslim creeps back on, feared for there lives, assaulting the stewardess was enough to arrest the one guy alone and they let him back on? We put up with this Islam crap, but still have grand ma take off her shoes at the airport, sorry but I have lost most of my faith with authority of any kind in this country.

THe incident didn't happen. Or did you miss that in your blind rage?

[JSantoro]

Whether or not this is true (the accounts are mixed, but lean towards false), it just goes to show that you can never take safety for granted. Would you stand to react if faced with this situation, or will you merely watch.

I always found the "MAYBE IT DIDN'T HAPPEN BUT IT COULD OH NOES!!" argumentative device as absolute proof-of-concept to be tiresome when used on me by a hand-wringing leftist nancy. Doesn't get any better seen used on a gun board.

Some big-mouthed Jethro wants to make himself out to be some internettoughguy and create this situation:
http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/3351/frankensteinvillagers.jpg (http://img17.imageshack.us/i/frankensteinvillagers.jpg/)
...so he writes an article and manages to get some notice on a Hannity web forum. Instant loss of any credibility with anybody who prefers properly fact-checked news in lieu of some mouth-breathers loud, shrill, mouth-frothing "truth."

The sound made by Hannity and his ilk when falling out of a boat = "DOOSH!!"

[LockenLoad]

THe incident didn't happen. Or did you miss that in your blind rage?

yea I missed that, blind rage? point me to something in this post that says it did not happen? I don't think the facts are all out yet, all I see is what Air Tran said what happened, they down play it which is good for there business? I think the truth lies in between the 2 versions, sorry but Muslims in this country need to get thier heads out of the sand and realize it scares people when they come on a plane in full Middle Eastern garb, I know I would want off even if they did nothing.

[LockenLoad]

I always found the "MAYBE IT DIDN'T HAPPEN BUT IT COULD OH NOES!!" argumentative device as absolute proof-of-concept to be tiresome when used on me by a hand-wringing leftist nancy. Doesn't get any better seen used on a gun board.

Some big-mouthed Jethro wants to make himself out to be some internettoughguy and create this situation:
http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/3351/frankensteinvillagers.jpg (http://img17.imageshack.us/i/frankensteinvillagers.jpg/)
...so he writes an article and manages to get some notice on a Hannity web forum. Instant loss of any credibility with anybody who prefers properly fact-checked news in lieu of some mouth-breathers loud, shrill, mouth-frothing "truth."

The sound made by Hannity and his ilk when falling out of a boat = "DOOSH!!"

Did you think that 9/11 was going to happen? I sure did'nt, but there were people who did see something coming, and were poo pooed by there higher ups from following the leads they had. I sure did not think the Pentagon could be attacked so easily.

[JSantoro]

Direct answer, yes, I knew in my gut that something akin to the 9/11 attacks was going to occur; we were wide open and practically asking for it. And when it did, a small part of me was morbidly satisfied, from the standpoint of "Hopefully, the nation will cowboy the f**k up." THAT has most emphatically NOT occurred, pointing to the farse this thread is based on, since we're going to base scenarios on fiction.

Your 9/11 example is one of valid information being ignored to a detrimental effect. Mine, which is specific to the nonsense posted, is one of crap info being ignored to a hopefully positive effect. Ergo, metaphorically, if I were talking about the benefits of airing a tire down if one is going off-road in sand, your response is to insist that Tom Seaver didn't deserve to win the Cy Young Award in 1969.

[ST911]

A plane full of people who were told they could NOT use their cellphones at the time.

People actually turn their electronic devices off when told to do so? I suppose there are some, but they never seem to sit next to me. :)

Given such an incident, I'd have a camera in my hand, or the hand of someone else, so fast...

[SteyrAUG]

And this is the same plane full of people who started a commotion and refused to fly with the "suspected terrorists"?

So, which are they? Blind little pansies who couldn't muster the balls to turn on a cell phone camera to tape some juicy shit or rebels refusing to fly? You can't have it both ways.

Sure you can. Sounds like what I'd do.

Refuse to fly but not violate any rules I do not have to violate towards that end. I would just want off the plane with as few problems as possible.

[LockenLoad]

Direct answer, yes, I knew in my gut that something akin to the 9/11 attacks was going to occur; we were wide open and practically asking for it. And when it did, a small part of me was morbidly satisfied, from the standpoint of "Hopefully, the nation will cowboy the f**k up." THAT has most emphatically NOT occurred, pointing to the farse this thread is based on, since we're going to base scenarios on fiction.

Your 9/11 example is one of valid information being ignored to a detrimental effect. Mine, which is specific to the nonsense posted, is one of crap info being ignored to a hopefully positive effect. Ergo, metaphorically, if I were talking about the benefits of airing a tire down if one is going off-road in sand, your response is to insist that Tom Seaver didn't deserve to win the Cy Young Award in 1969.

your analogy with Tom Seaver is poor at best, Too the point, I will take you at your word you saw a 9/11 event coming, I would say the masses did not, I brought up 9/11 because it changed peoples mindsets about what can happen( not too mention both involved planes and Muslims), we lived in a kind of utopian state up until then. I believe we had a similar event in Phoenix, 6 Muslim guys causing issues on the plane very similar sounding.

[Gentoo]

Look, the biggest problem with all this is the simple fact that noone can offer a good explanation of WHY the major news organizations would avoid or help bury this story.

"Possible terrorists caught planning another 9/11, delays flight for hours, film at 11" would net huge, huge ratings and viewership. There is no incentive for them to brush it aside, and huge incentive for them to blow every last little detail out of proportion. Every other attempted terrorist attack (shoe bomber, NYC tunnels, etc) was covered to death in the media. Why ignore this one? While I don't exactly trust the MSM for good, accurate information the bottom line is that sensational news sells. This would be news for a week if true.

The fact that the MSM has ignored this event means one of two things:

1. They are part of a vast government conspiracy to keep it from the public for whatever reason.

2. There was nothing newsworthy that happened.

[SteyrAUG]

Look, the biggest problem with all this is the simple fact that noone can offer a good explanation of WHY the major news organizations would avoid or help bury this story.



Same reason the Ft. Hood shooter was instantly declared to be "not an act of terrorism" and his Muslim background not a factor in the shooting.

The MSM likes to be the "anti racist" and stories of Muslims who scared regular folks but didn't do anything else just seems racist.

Now just so we are on the same page, I think there are many versions of the story here and the one in the original post does smack of a "Send This To Everyone You Know If You Love America" exaggerated chain email.

Could very well be a case where only one, or a handful of people actually wanted to get off the plane. Might have only been a few Muslims and not gang of twelve. Probably lots and lots of exaggeration going on.

However, the basic premise remains possible. That a number of Muslim men deliberately "acted the part" to see what would happen. This has happened before following 9-11 in other countries and has been reported a few times.

Obviously it could be individuals sympathetic to, or members of Islamic terrorist organizations testing resolve and response of a given airline, airport, passengers, etc. for the planning of future attacks. Could also be an effort to create many "cry wolf" situations where Muslims are continuously "profiled" and declared possible terrorists when in fact no act of terrorism can be proven to have been planned.

And while I'm certain such things are done for the above reasons, I personally feel it was probably a CAIR stunt done to demonstrate how Muslims are unfairly profiled since 9-11 by a racist population who sees them all as terrorists.

[glocktogo]

Looks like it's time to put the internet hoax email to bed at least:


AirTran ‘hero' wasn't on plane, airline says
By Alexis Stevens
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
It's a little easier to understand why a Houston man who claimed to have thwarted a potential terrorist attack on a flight leaving Atlanta has not answered repeated requests to tell his story.
He was not on the plane, AirTran Airways says.
"After conducting additional research into this situation, we have verified, according to flight manifests [legally binding documents] that the individual that allegedly created a first-hand account of events on-board AirTran Airways Flight 297, a Theodore Petruna, was never actually on-board the flight," AirTran said in a statement, which the The Atlanta Journal-Constitution was the first to obtain.
An e-mail from a Tedd Petruna, in which he told the AJC via a Facebook message Friday was intended only for friends and family, made the rounds online this week after a friend apparently forwarded it to others. In a matter of days, Petruna's account appeared in chat rooms and blogs and on conspiracy theorists' Web sites.
The AJC was forwarded the e-mail dozens of times this week, as readers saw Petruna's tale and noticed conflicting information between it and earlier news reports of the flight delay Nov. 17. Some readers simply asked the AJC to further investigate the matter.
But others who forwarded the message accused the AJC of participating in a politically correct cover-up.
The intriguing story made for intense fodder among bloggers.
Petruna's story appeared in a blog on the Web site for The Project 9.12, a group started by Fox News commentator Glenn Beck. A Canadian news site picked up the story. Dallas Morning News airline columnist Terry Maxon made it the subject of his blog for a second time this week on Friday. And snopes.com, a Web site that sniffs out rumors to decipher between fact and fiction, followed the story.
In its continued investigation into the incident, the AJC made several attempts to speak to Petruna about the incident. He has declined throughout the week to respond to repeated e-mail and phone attempts by the AJC to talk to him. That last request was made Saturday.
Additionally, AJC interviews with people on the plane, airline officials and federal agencies did not corroborate his story.
According to AirTran, shortly after 4:40 p.m. on Nov. 17, Flight 297 bound for Houston taxied toward the runway of Atlanta's Hartsfield-Jackson International Airport. But before the Boeing 717 made it to the runway, the pilot decided to return the plane to the gate. A flight attendant had apparently asked a male passenger twice to put away a cellphone or camera, but the man had not done so. The flight attendant then took the device from the man.
At the gate, the passenger -- who didn't speak English -- and a companion were asked to leave the plane, which they did without incident, the airline reported.
When it was determined the problem was caused by a language barrier, AirTran and Transportation Security Administration officials allowed the man, and 12 others traveling with him, to reboard, and the flight left for Houston a little more than two hours later. Later, officials said the entire incident was the result of a miscommunication.
Nancy Deveikis was seated directly behind the unidentified man on the flight. She believes he spoke Spanish. Deveikis said the man was looking at pictures on a camera and did not understand the flight attendant's requests to turn the device off.
Petruna's account was drastically different. It was forwarded to others by A. Gene Hackemack, who vouched for him as a former NASA colleague. Petruna claimed he witnessed an incident involving Middle Eastern passengers on the flight and attempted to stop the incident from escalating.
"I grabbed the man who had been on the phone by the arm and said ‘you will go sit down or you will be thrown from this plane,' " Petruna wrote. Continuing, Petruna said 11 men dressed in "full attire" speaking Arabic got on the plane together.
Hackemack, when reached by telephone earlier this week at his Texas home, stood by the story and gave the AJC a home phone number for Petruna. Hackemack did not respond to a request for comment Friday by the AJC.
"Thank God for people like Tedd Petruna," wrote Hackemack wrote in the e-mail he forwarded.
Keith Robinson didn't make it to the gate in time to board Flight 297 for its initial attempt to depart. Robinson, a Texas chaplain, said he watched as upset crew members and passengers poured back into the terminal after the incident on the plane.
"You could tell something was going on," Robinson told the AJC. Robinson said a passenger getting off the plane asked him whether he intended to get on the plane and fly to Houston.
"I'm a chaplain, that's where I'm supposed to be," Robinson said he told the man.
Robinson said the flight to Houston was a quiet one, giving him time to write down his account of what he had seen.
"The feeling that I have from what I observed is there was intentional intimidation," Robinson said. "It was almost an ethnic bullying situation."
Robinson recounted what he witnessed for reporters at KHOU-TV in Houston on Thursday. Petruna, however, told the station that he could not appear on camera.
In an e-mail to the AJC Saturday evening, Robinson said whether or not Petruna was on the flight, the incident aboard the plane caused fear among the flight's crew members.
A replacement flight crew was brought on board, but that is not uncommon, AirTran said. A delay such as this one could quickly affect scheduling for later flights, according to AirTran spokesman Christopher White.
"We have reserve crews ready to jump in at a moments notice," White said late Saturday.
Friday afternoon, AirTran responded to Petruna's allegations in a point-by-point response to his e-mail, posted on the airline's internal Web site and made available to the media.
"There are no reports of any passenger standing up in a threatening manner," according to the AirTran statement. "At no time was there any physical altercation between passengers."
Although AirTran previously had declined to release the flight manifest, that changed Friday evening. In addition to discounting Petruna's story, the airline responded to the amount of attention it believed the circulated e-mail was gaining, White said.
There was no way Petruna could have seen what he described on Flight 297, AirTran said in a statement. Petruna departed from Akron-Canton, Ohio, on AirTran Flight 205 on Nov. 17, officials said. He was supposed to connect to Flight 297 for Houston, but he missed his first flight out of Ohio. And therefore, he missed the connecting flight.
AirTran said Flight 297 first left its gate at 4:40 p.m., "a full 26 minutes before Flight 205 arrived at the gate in Atlanta, making this flight connection impossible."



Duane P. McGray
Executive Director
Airport Law Enforcement Agencies Network

[JSantoro]

http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/1051/hilarious.gif (http://img189.imageshack.us/i/hilarious.gif/)

[SW-Shooter]

Just because the email is a "hoax", doesn't mean someone else didn't witness the events. Remember the 6 or so Muslims that were removed from a flight in 2005-06? CAIR raised a big stink about that. I'm not saying it did or didn't happen. It's likely it was a faint, or a deception tactic to place focus on what's likely not to occur. If we looks only upon the obvious we will fail to see anything else.

The MSM has nothing to gain by running the Islamic fear factor up the flagpole. In fact the only people they care to throw under the bus is people that lack color, pay taxes, and love America. We are the new pariah. Everyone else gets a pass.

I remember after 9/11, black people were relieved that L.E & .gov found a new target. Now they recruit from Somalia, and other African nations. Many appear similar to Hispanics in skin tone. This is about blending in. We don't hear about all of the little crimes that occur with a Muslim actor, but I guarantee they exist. Those crimes blend in with everything else, it doesn't mean they didn't happen.

It's all about blending in.

[glocktogo]

Just because the email is a "hoax", doesn't mean someone else didn't witness the events. Remember the 6 or so Muslims that were removed from a flight in 2005-06? CAIR raised a big stink about that. I'm not saying it did or didn't happen. It's likely it was a faint, or a deception tactic to place focus on what's likely not to occur. If we looks only upon the obvious we will fail to see anything else.

The MSM has nothing to gain by running the Islamic fear factor up the flagpole. In fact the only people they care to throw under the bus is people that lack color, pay taxes, and love America. We are the new pariah. Everyone else gets a pass.

I remember after 9/11, black people were relieved that L.E & .gov found a new target. Now they recruit from Somalia, and other African nations. Many appear similar to Hispanics in skin tone. This is about blending in. We don't hear about all of the little crimes that occur with a Muslim actor, but I guarantee they exist. Those crimes blend in with everything else, it doesn't mean they didn't happen.

It's all about blending in.

Hence my statement
it's time to put the internet hoax email to bed at least. That doesn't mean nothing happened, but it damages the credibility of anyone yelling fire in the crowded airport terminal. It's my job to be critical of events such as these, but that doesn't mean there's a terrorist behind every potted plant at the airport. :(

[SteyrAUG]

Clearly CAIR has been successful in getting their agents hired to the top positions at AirTran.