View Full Version : Smoke Grenades
Any one have experience with commercialized smoke grenades?
Ive seen many pratical applications of them in tactical environments, but what about in a Katrina type situation?
Are they worth having? just curios
Very true, I was unaware that these could potentially start fires
Useful signaling device in backcountry. Use does not require one to be a rocket scientist, but there are advisories to heed.
Outlander Systems
12-09-09, 20:38
Are these legal/available to civilians?
Yes you can find them on a variety of websites. Ammunitiontogo.com http://www.ammunitiontogo.com/catalog1/index.php/cName/milspec-smoke-grenades has the largest selection Ive seen thus far
I used to buy "cold" smoke grenades from this place: http://www.hi-vel.com/Catalog__23/Smoke_Generating_Devices/smoke_generating_devices.html
The pull ring type had no emitted spark and were allowed at places that otherwise would allow smoke grenades.
I remember the shipping fees sucked...hazmat.
Anyway, like I said previously, if you are going to get any of this stuff train with it responsibly. Dont burn your damn house down, harass your ex-girlfriend, or **** with your neighbor with it. It is a good tool that if brought up to the press would be restricted the next day.
DOC
Absolutely, I would be purchasing mine for my SHTF kit.
As far as storage goes are there any issues there?
Shadow_otw
12-10-09, 07:53
Cool!
About 15 - 20 years ago I was given a Grenade box. Its a mountable box with a flip top and latch to hold it closed. It holds four smoke grenades in a line and each cell is padded with thick felt.
Now I can fill it!
:D
They're legal here in Canada, but no one around bothers to sell them. At best, we can buy the smoke tubes, but we lack the pull-pin style smoke devices. Anyone care to ship?
What color do most have on hand? I would see the most use in purple, but I could be mistaken.
Cheers.
Iraq Ninja
12-12-09, 07:52
US grenade pin design is lacking IMHO. The Brits have a superior pin, which in some ways resembles a safety pin. You twist it and pull it out. More secure than our style.
I also like their Red Phos smoke grenades. It gives you an instant cloud of smoke and great for clearing out crowds of people, though a few of them may be on fire...
I also like their Red Phos smoke grenades. It gives you an instant cloud of smoke and great for clearing out crowds of people, though a few of them may be on fire...
Sig line material.
Iraq Ninja
12-12-09, 22:14
Here is a red phos grenade in action at a range. I don't suggest doing this at public ranges. Red phos is a bit less dangerous than white phos, but still has the shock and awe ability.
Sadly we are not allowed to carry them anymore. Hell, we can't even use thermite to destroy our vehicles.
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d127/Iraqninja/Misc/redphos.jpg
Iraq Ninja
12-12-09, 23:18
The DOD doesn't authorize the use of thermite anymore for most contractors. Not sure about the DS guys. Part of the reason was that vehicles were being burned when they didn't have to be, and that got expensive.
The Iraqis sometimes make an issue over smokes as well, but we have never had any problems. It is all a matter of attitude and respect.
Iraq Ninja
12-13-09, 00:28
Things have changed, and probably for the best. When you look at the sig acts for this year and last, it is hard to justify some of the stuff we used to carry.
We will probably always have smoke for signaling purposes.
I do miss those small little frag grenades, the ones about the size of the golf ball. Fun for parties and fishing. :)
Can you actually golf with those? Hypothetically speaking, of course...
-B
believeraz
12-13-09, 06:22
Thermite is out in my sphere of influence as well these days. Smoke and HC smoke is still good to go. Even though we can't burn anything with Thermite, HC smoke put on top of a combustible material (upholstered car seat, for instance) will burn very easily.
In the field, on average how many were you carrying?
Not sure on the total legality on this (still doing some reading) And also not sure about storage life or ability to do so at all.
Just one of those things that stuck in my head and when I read over the thread I figured I would share.
Might make for some fun range time anyway.
http://www.wonderhowto.com/search/make-colored-smoke-bomb/
I do miss those small little frag grenades, the ones about the size of the golf ball. Fun for parties and fishing. :)
I probably blew up close to a few thousand of those because they were "unserviceable"....:confused:
The DOD doesn't authorize the use of thermite anymore for most contractors... Part of the reason was that vehicles were being burned when they didn't have to be, and that got expensive.
Hilarious!
Moose-Knuckle
05-21-10, 07:50
I also like their Red Phos smoke grenades. It gives you an instant cloud of smoke and great for clearing out crowds of people, though a few of them may be on fire...
My morning caffine enriched beverage almost came out my nose. :D
Are these legal/available to civilians?
Yes, we sell them.
C4
NCPatrolAR
05-21-10, 08:43
I've been carrying an ALS pocket smoke on my plate carrier for about 5 years now (in Eagle 40mm pouch). Its there in case things go sideways and need some cover while I have to beat feet elsewhere.
Not sure on the total legality on this (still doing some reading) And also not sure about storage life or ability to do so at all.
Just one of those things that stuck in my head and when I read over the thread I figured I would share.
Might make for some fun range time anyway.
http://www.wonderhowto.com/search/make-colored-smoke-bomb/
I can't imagine the trouble my brother and I would have gotten ourselves into if we had the internet with it's exciting ne'er do well help forums like this available to us when we were kids! :D
theJanitor
05-21-10, 20:15
Yes, we sell them.
C4
link? price?
thanks.
I've been carrying an ALS pocket smoke on my plate carrier for about 5 years now (in Eagle 40mm pouch). Its there in case things go sideways and need some cover while I have to beat feet elsewhere.
What made you decide to carry the pocket vs the standard size? In an urban environment would the output of the standard size be overkill? Just curious.
NCPatrolAR
05-22-10, 05:18
What made you decide to carry the pocket vs the standard size? In an urban environment would the output of the standard size be overkill? Just curious.
size of the canister. A full size canister takes up too much space on my plate carrier while the pocket smoke takes minimal space. Also, for me the pocket smoke output is more than sufficient.
Can anyone provide some links for these? I can't find them anywhere... Thanks
Magic_Salad0892
01-30-11, 03:37
Are smoke grenades the only Less Than Lethal equipment that civis can own?
I kind of wanted to get CS Tear Gas grenades, for SHTF kit, but didn't know if they were actually legal. ALS has them, but I'm not sure if it's legal for me to own them.
Great information in this thread.
BTW:
http://www.alstechnologies.com/index.php?page=ALSG101OC
What is OC? Like Concussion grenades?
Are smoke grenades the only Less Than Lethal equipment that civis can own?
I kind of wanted to get CS Tear Gas grenades, for SHTF kit, but didn't know if they were actually legal. ALS has them, but I'm not sure if it's legal for me to own them.
Great information in this thread.
BTW:
http://www.alstechnologies.com/index.php?page=ALSG101OC
What is OC? Like Concussion grenades?
Definetly dont think those are legal, and making professional grade tear gas isnt exactly the easiest thing to do. If crowd control is what your after then there are other non lethal alternatives that are just as effective
Magic_Salad0892
02-01-11, 01:27
Like what? Flashbangs?
Were you saying OC or CS grenades were illegal?
That grenade has pepper spray- Oleoresin Capsicum.
Are smoke grenades the only Less Than Lethal equipment that civis can own?
I kind of wanted to get CS Tear Gas grenades, for SHTF kit, but didn't know if they were actually legal. ALS has them, but I'm not sure if it's legal for me to own them.
Great information in this thread.
BTW:
http://www.alstechnologies.com/index.php?page=ALSG101OC
What is OC? Like Concussion grenades?
Like what? Flashbangs?
shoot me a pm ;)
Were you saying OC or CS grenades were illegal?
Im not an SME on this by anymeans but I think CR is the illegal compound and CS, OC and another one I cant recall are legal to own/produce but the quantity per canister is limited. It might be best to check with your local department to find the legalities on this issue.
It seems like I read somewhere a couple weeks ago that smoke greandes are now illegal to civilians, something about the ignighter been considered a destructive device by the ATF. Does anyone else recall this?
Moose-Knuckle
02-02-11, 19:37
There are a couple of threads on two different forums right now on this. According to some in those threads ALS has told their distros that the BATFE has ruled the (M201A1 ignitor) fuse they use in their smoke cans as a DD. The M201A1 fuse is made with a Perchlorate mixture and Perchlorate is on the BATFE list of explosive compositions.
Nothing difinitive to date.
There are a couple of threads on two different forums right now on this. According to some in those threads ALS has told their distros that the BATFE has ruled the (M201A1 ignitor) fuse they use in their smoke cans as a DD. The M201A1 fuse is made with a Perchlorate mixture and Perchlorate is on the BATFE list of explosive compositions.
Nothing difinitive to date.
Thanks for the clairification.
FromMyColdDeadHand
02-02-11, 22:02
There are a couple of threads on two different forums right now on this. According to some in those threads ALS has told their distros that the BATFE has ruled the (M201A1 ignitor) fuse they use in their smoke cans as a DD. The M201A1 fuse is made with a Perchlorate mixture and Perchlorate is on the BATFE list of explosive compositions.
Nothing difinitive to date.
Does that mean what I think it means for civies that currently have smoke?
Any other alternatives?
Magic_Salad0892
02-03-11, 03:47
Thanks for the answer IG.
Does that mean that there is no LTL grenade substitute for civilians?
Moose-Knuckle
02-03-11, 17:07
Does that mean what I think it means for civies that currently have smoke?
Any other alternatives?
We're all waiting to hear if in fact they are NOW DD's and if so if the ones in circulation will be grandfathered.
I've read that ALS is working on a different fuse that will be ATF friendly, until their next ruling anyway.
As an ALS Tech dealer I will give the info that I have been given.
In mid October of last year I contacted my POC at ALS to place an order for some flashbang trainers for a training customer. These use a standard fuse body with a small amount of flash powder (under the amount to qualify as a DD) to simulate a flashbang for more economical training with less paperwork. I was informed that the ATF had decided to begin enforcing a statue that was already on the books that classifies the fuse assembly (and contents) as explosive materials. In order to ship the order I had to either provide an address for an LE/MIL agency or unit and POC to receive the shipment or provide a copy of an explosives license. This applied to any item with a fuse (smoke grenades, flash bang trainers, etc).
These items are not newly classified as Destructive Devices, they are simply considered explosive material as they always have been but the ATF is now enforcing regulations regarding sales, possession, etc. To what extent I do not know other than the fact that I can only sell these to agencies and units now (or license holders).
I hope that clears the muddy waters a little. I also hope that ALS can come up with an alternative that maintains the same 'manual of arms' for training purposes. It is much easier (logistically and administratively) to use smoke, bangs, etc for familiarization training when the paperwork required is at a minimum.
Reviving the dead here. Just checking to see if a commercial product has stepped in to fill this smoke grenade gap. I could see the utility of to product during a Baltimore style uprising/zombie apocalypse.
Outlander Systems
10-23-15, 09:28
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2GDPJGfGaPc
http://us.enolagaye.com/military/#
I see I'm not the only one that has gone to EG for smokes.
Someday I'll have to get one of their large ones and see if it's worth it over the standard tubes, but the standard tubes to put out a surprisingly good amount of smoke, for a toy.
I've heard some folks mention marine (boats) smokes.
Any of those worth anything?
Also, if any folks with relevant experience are still around- does smoke color matter as far as effectiveness of cover?
For example, let's say I keep a red and green smoke for signaling, but for "get out of dodge" smoke intended to give concealment, would denser (or at least, *perceived* denser) color like purple, blue, etc. be the better choice?
What about black smoke?
Outlander Systems
10-23-15, 16:59
Black is the ticket for maximum cover.
Short of the real-deal, the EG's are the best that I've come across.
I haven't tried the big ones yet. The standard fits in a 40mm pouch like a glove.
I see I'm not the only one that has gone to EG for smokes.
Someday I'll have to get one of their large ones and see if it's worth it over the standard tubes, but the standard tubes to put out a surprisingly good amount of smoke, for a toy.
I've heard some folks mention marine (boats) smokes.
Any of those worth anything?
Also, if any folks with relevant experience are still around- does smoke color matter as far as effectiveness of cover?
For example, let's say I keep a red and green smoke for signaling, but for "get out of dodge" smoke intended to give concealment, would denser (or at least, *perceived* denser) color like purple, blue, etc. be the better choice?
What about black smoke?
I haven't tried the big ones yet. The standard fits in a 40mm pouch like a glove.
I did not know that.
There's a couple FS/Tyr flashbang pouches that fit them. Also BFG NOW TQ straps do a pretty good job too. And you can fit 2 of them in a Tactical Tailor Fight Light Bang/Smoke pouch. Wonder if the 40mm pouch may be a little more low profile...
Dammit, now I have to spend more money on gear... :laugh:
Smoke grenades are cool. They kind of suck to stand in though.
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Straight Shooter
10-24-15, 07:15
Whats the price on these?
Smoke grenades are cool. They kind of suck to stand in though.
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So are the new ALS OC vapor grenades.
Outlander Systems
10-24-15, 09:50
$5-$7
Whats the price on these?
$5-$7
Before hazmat.... :rolleyes:
Probably a good idea if ordering online to go in with a couple others so you can buy bulk- I know one place I was looking had a great price on each but like $30 hazmat. Nuts.
Yes they are legal unless restricted locally. I am a dealer for ALS but I only sell local to VA as I am not setup to ship HAZMAT. I am not sure how Ammunition to go gets away with selling CS but in the packet I filled out it basically said that I can only have it shipped direct to an agency. All other smoke I can have shipped direct to me.
Anyway, like I said previously, if you are going to get any of this stuff train with it responsibly. Dont burn your damn house down, harass your ex-girlfriend, or **** with your neighbor with it. It is a good tool that if brought up to the press would be restricted the next day.
DOC
Where are you in VA? I wouldn't mind getting more
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Awesome. Thx. Any dealer you recommend?
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