View Full Version : HK P30 worth the premium?
The P30 is roughly 50% (at least) more expensive than a Glock 17 or M&P 9. Do you think it's worth it?
I think so, I bought one and enjoy the fact that you can change the grip to the way you like it.
John_Wayne777
12-09-09, 15:32
That's something only you can answer for yourself.
The P30 is certainly a very nice handgun. It's very well thought out, made with excellent quality, is probably the most ergonomically advanced handgun ever designed and is likely to offer you reliable and relatively trouble free service for many years. It's also kinda pricey, the accessories for it are fairly limited, and the spare magazines for it are super expensive.
When you figure all that other stuff in the TCO of the P30 ends up being a bit higher than the TCO of the Glock or M&P offerings even though the P30 isn't supposed to need any TLC until 25,000 rounds.
The P30 is an inherently accurate handgun, meaning that the weapon itself is capable of putting bullets through the same hole at reasonable distances....but that being said, I've seen guys do that with Glocks and M&P's too. M&P's are, in general, pretty accurate handguns themselves. Glocks are accurate enough for any reasonable purpose. As an example, at the mod class earlier this year yrac won the bullseye competition with a perfect score (all X or 10 ring) and I came in second with 1 9 ring hit using my M&P...and that was my fault rather than the pistol's.
While the trigger time I've had on the P30 has shown that it's a pretty good handgun, my personal choice was to standardize on the M&P as my go-to platform. They are easy to shoot, accurate, not insanely expensive to support, widely supported in the accessories/holster market, and I can get my hands on M&P's in multiple form factors and calibers pretty darn cheap.
If the crux of your question is whether or not the P30 will do anything that the G17 or M&P won't do, the answer is really "No." All three are very good handguns that are likely to offer a good service life. From that point it's a matter of examining support options and personal preferences to figure out which one you want to take home.
Buddy of mine got one, and it certainly is nice but not worth it to me when I can get mil discounted Glock 19s for $420 all day long. I do think the HK mag release is the best thing since.....boobies? Well maybe not but I do like it, my thumb is the perfect length for it. Thats the one thing my USP/USPc has over my Glocks. Try and rent one and see if its something you would rather have than 2 pistols.
Hunter Rose
12-09-09, 17:40
I do think the HK mag release is the best thing since.....boobies? Well maybe not but I do like it, my thumb is the perfect length for it. Thats the one thing my USP/USPc has over my Glocks. Try and rent one and see if its something you would rather have than 2 pistols.
If you like the USP Compact mag release, you should try it with an HK45c mag release installed. Larger and much easier to use. Costs only $11 shipped too.
gtmtnbiker98
12-09-09, 18:01
I think so, but then again, I own four of them (2 P30s and 2 P30Ls). You could call me biased.
The Dumb Gun Collector
12-09-09, 18:24
Probably the finest autoloading combat handgun available--IMHO.
FromMyColdDeadHand
12-09-09, 19:31
I fondled a P30 last time I was at the gun shop. IIRC, it didn't have a safety lever, just a decocker. Guy didn't know what variant it was, but it had a looooong trigger reset? Is that normal?
I was surprised how small the gun was. Grip was nice. Just the reset seemed like it was 1/3 inch +
I am a HUGE HK fan! I however don't have a P30 anymore. I would agree with everything people have said of the pro's of the P30. I have never had a gun more comfortable to the hand, love the mag release etc. However, I hate pistols that are double action for the first shot and than single action. I bought one knowing this but after using it I just could not get past the trigger. I don't own Sig's for that reason as well.
They are bringing out a P30 with a safety so you can carry them cocked and locked like a 1911. I will most likely be buying another one once they become available. I like HK but I have built my platforms around the G17/19/26 for 9mm and high quality 1911's for 45ACP. I do have an HK45 and love the pistol but after training so much with Glock and 1911's I find it hard to shoot the HK45 well because of the trigger reset. I have been considering selling the HK45 because of this, when I shoot it all the time I run it well.
The disadvantage to the HK's is the cost of mags. I can buy 2-3 Glock high cap mags for the price of one HK mag. I have about 30 or so G17 mags and try to keep 20+ for each pistol I shoot. Mags are one thing that will possibly be banned so this plays a big role in choosing my equipment. It is a lot cheaper to run a G17/19 than a P30.
I decided to cut down the amount of brands and platforms for the reason of mags, holsters, spare parts etc.
If you don't own a Glock, Sig, M&P etc and are starting new and willing to spend the money the P30 is a great choice. Hard to go wrong with any of them!
David
NCPatrolAR
12-09-09, 20:24
I havent had a chance to shoot a P30 but have handled several over the past year or so. They fit my hand well, but I detest magazine release levers and that generally rules HK pistols for my purchasing
I'm a huge Glock fan but I've owned several H&K USPs over the years. I love everything about the P30 except the SA/DA thing. Now, if I could get one where I could carry it cocked in locked then yes, it would be worth it.
The P30 "might" be the best overall pistol on the market right now.....if you like the hammer fired ignition. Personally, I prefer DA/SA pistols over striker fired pistols. Must be all those years using the M9, M11, and now a P229 in law enforcement. DA gives you a very safe condition that only requires you to pull the trigger to get into the fight. Then of course when in single action mode it is a smoother and faster operation which gives you more time to get that front sight on target. Lastly, you have a second strike ability. It's a rare occurance, but you will encounter a round that does not go bang. Fortunately, mine have only been in training in which a quick second pull of the trigger fixed the problem.
I think so, but then again, I own four of them (2 P30s and 2 P30Ls). You could call me biased.
How's the balance on the P30L in comparison to the standard P30? I've heard it is a little front end heavy and feels more like it belongs on the range rather than on your hip?
NCPatrolAR
12-09-09, 20:53
Lastly, you have a second strike ability. It's a rare occurance, but you will encounter a round that does not go bang. Fortunately, mine have only been in training in which a quick second pull of the trigger fixed the problem.
Why do this? Any time I get a click instead of a bang; I immediately go into "Tap, rack, ready" unless I see that the slide is locked to the rear. Double striking a cartridge seems like a good way to put yourself behind the power curve.
John_Wayne777
12-09-09, 21:43
I'm a huge Glock fan but I've owned several H&K USPs over the years. I love everything about the P30 except the SA/DA thing. Now, if I could get one where I could carry it cocked in locked then yes, it would be worth it.
The LEM setup found in Todd's test P30 solves that issue nicely. Were I to get a P30 I would get it with the LEM trigger system.
I'm a huge Glock fan but I've owned several H&K USPs over the years. I love everything about the P30 except the SA/DA thing. Now, if I could get one where I could carry it cocked in locked then yes, it would be worth it.
i wish HK would bring back some striker fired pistols...
poly framed P7 anyone? :cool:
Why do this? Any time I get a click instead of a bang; I immediately go into "Tap, rack, ready" unless I see that the slide is locked to the rear. Double striking a cartridge seems like a good way to put yourself behind the power curve.
I would agree with you. However, when you are shooting at someone and your heart rate is near 200bpm, you tend to tend to pull the trigger a couple of times following a malfunction before muscle memory(or your brain) kicks in to clear it. I've always found it better to work with your body under extreme stress. If you're going to pull the trigger anyway following a malfunction, there is nothing lost is having a double strike capability.
I fondled a P30 last time I was at the gun shop. IIRC, it didn't have a safety lever, just a decocker. Guy didn't know what variant it was, but it had a looooong trigger reset? Is that normal?
You handled a V3. The reset on the P30 is longer than you'd be used to with a Glock, M&P, or 1911.
I love everything about the P30 except the SA/DA thing. Now, if I could get one where I could carry it cocked in locked then yes, it would be worth it.
LEM. As a long-time TDA advocate, I'm the first to admit I've become a convert to the LEM.
Why do this? Any time I get a click instead of a bang; I immediately go into "Tap, rack, ready" unless I see that the slide is locked to the rear. Double striking a cartridge seems like a good way to put yourself behind the power curve.
I'm with Marcus on this one. No one is advocating teaching a purposeful second strike. But when you're driving along at top speed and get a misfire, you're probably going to press the trigger again without thinking about it, before you even realize you've had a stoppage, and before you can begin a clearance. I even had it happen at IDPA Nationals one year when a round of factory ammo misfired on the first strike and no one even realized it happened because the gun went "bang" two-tenths of a second later.
I'm a huge Glock fan but I've owned several H&K USPs over the years. I love everything about the P30 except the SA/DA thing. Now, if I could get one where I could carry it cocked in locked then yes, it would be worth it.
Its coming!!!! Should be available in less than 60 days. I have the exact same opinion.
i wish HK would bring back some striker fired pistols...
poly framed P7 anyone? :cool:
I LOVE the P7, just wish it was lighter. I would buy a poly P7!!!!
FromMyColdDeadHand
12-09-09, 23:39
So, what are all the trigger versions available for the P30? I read in a year old post on another forum that a "match trigger" would be available too???
I shot my father's new P30L yesterday. My impression was that I wouldn't want to own it in DA/SA form - the DA pull is heavier than any DA/SA I've shot (CZ, Sig).
And the stock sights are pretty bad for a $850+ pistol. Huge, distracting urine-yellow dots.
My trigger finger was dragging the trigger guard (which is an issue I had with a 642 revolver, so maybe I'm moving my finger in to compensate for the heavy pull), a definite turn-off.
Give it to me in SA/safety form or the lighter LEM ala ToddG's, and a set of Heinie Straight-8s, and I think I might like it a lot. But until those options are readily available, I'd go for the Glock (or M&P).
Worth the premium?
I think so, at least when you think about how small that difference is over the years that you will use it.
I saw a like new one for $720 in a shop a couple days ago, the extra new mags were selling for $30 and they were the 'new' style.
I would really like to find one with the LEM trigger.......
montanadave
12-10-09, 08:18
LEM. As a long-time TDA advocate, I'm the first to admit I've become a convert to the LEM.
I am contemplating the purchase of a P30 and recall you discussing the LEM in another thread. Can you redirect me to that information so that I can have a better understanding of the differences between this model and the V3 DA/SA model? I apologize for the hijack but I'm on the steep side of the learning curve with these pistols.
I am contemplating the purchase of a P30 and recall you discussing the LEM in another thread. Can you redirect me to that information so that I can have a better understanding of the differences between this model and the V3 DA/SA model? I apologize for the hijack but I'm on the steep side of the learning curve with these pistols.
Not Todd but here is the thread (http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=30461) you are asking for...
montanadave -- The LEM has what HK calls an "external hammer" and an "internal hammer." The internal hammer is cocked by the slide action when you load or fire the gun just like the TDA (DA/SA, Variant 3) gun. But there is no decocker because the external hammer's travel is directly linked to the trigger. When the trigger is forward, the external hammer is down; when the trigger is pulled backwards, the hammer cocks and releases.
The result is a first shot that is as long as the normal DA but has the trigger pull weight of the SA, with a reset, trigger travel, and weight the same as the SA for subsequent shots. When you are finished shooting, you do not have to decock the gun. Taking your finger off the trigger returns the trigger to its normal at-rest position fully forward.
Essentially, it alleviates the heavy DA stroke that many people complain about while maintaining the added safety of a longer initial trigger travel as well as providing the artifice of what looks like a decocked gun.
edited to add: Palmguy, thanks! Saved me the trouble of searching for it.
I love the P30, it fits like it was designed for me but its 9mm so I dont own one. I also dont like the price so Im going to get a SW M&P in 45 I think
montanadave -- The LEM has what HK calls an "external hammer" and an "internal hammer." The internal hammer is cocked by the slide action when you load or fire the gun just like the TDA (DA/SA, Variant 3) gun. But there is no decocker because the external hammer's travel is directly linked to the trigger. When the trigger is forward, the external hammer is down; when the trigger is pulled backwards, the hammer cocks and releases.
The result is a first shot that is as long as the normal DA but has the trigger pull weight of the SA, with a reset, trigger travel, and weight the same as the SA for subsequent shots. When you are finished shooting, you do not have to decock the gun. Taking your finger off the trigger returns the trigger to its normal at-rest position fully forward.
Essentially, it alleviates the heavy DA stroke that many people complain about while maintaining the added safety of a longer initial trigger travel as well as providing the artifice of what looks like a decocked gun.
edited to add: Palmguy, thanks! Saved me the trouble of searching for it.
So, you're saying that if you let the trigger go forward and reset after firing, that it will go back into double action mode? Do you have to maintain pressure on the trigger in order to keep it in single action?
No. My explanation is probably not great.
The gun is never really in DA mode. It's artifice. The external hammer is moved forward and back with the trigger like a DAO gun, but the internal hammer is always cocked (unless you dry fire or misfire) so the gun is always really in SA mode.
If you let the trigger past the reset point to the rest position, the external hammer appears decocked but except for the longer take-up, the trigger pull is still the same as if you hadn't blown past the reset point.
Perhaps the best way to think of it is as a SA trigger with a ton of pretravel.
I held one in my local shop, a P30L. I liked it a lot. If it where just the price of the gun that was the only hurdle then I would think strongly to getting one. I liked it enough to spend two pistols worth on it. But the mags are expensive and can be hard to find. Then there is H&K's seeming lack of interest in the civilian market, contrasting sharply with S&W and Glock's obvious great interest. Only the end user can decide if it is worth it to them. I would much prefer a LEM version myself.
Perhaps the best way to think of it is as a SA trigger with a ton of pretravel.
Gotcha. I'll have to go try one out sometime, but I'm betting I'll still prefer classic DA/SA.
Gotcha. I'll have to go try one out sometime, but I'm betting I'll still prefer classic DA/SA.
The LEM will essentially be identical to your TDA gun, except:
The initial trigger pull won't be as heavy.
You never need to decock.
Not surprisingly, the LEM was developed in response to LE agency complaints about TDA pistols that (1) had a heavy first trigger pull and (2) needed to be decocked.
LEM. As a long-time TDA advocate, I'm the first to admit I've become a convert to the LEM.
Hopefully I'll get a chance to shoot your P30 next month and see what the LEM is all about.
ETA: What does TDA stand for?
John_Wayne777
12-10-09, 22:22
Traditional double action. DA first shot, single action followups.
i wish HK would bring back some striker fired pistols...
poly framed P7 anyone? :cool:
I'm with you on this! H&K if you read this, make us a P7 for the 21st century!
The LEM will essentially be identical to your TDA gun, except:
The initial trigger pull won't be as heavy.
You never need to decock.
Not surprisingly, the LEM was developed in response to LE agency complaints about TDA pistols that (1) had a heavy first trigger pull and (2) needed to be decocked.
does it have second strike capability?
if you misfire i mean. can you pull the trigger again and have it hit the primer again?
i'd love to see a diagram of the internal workings of that thing.. it SOUNDS godawfully complicated, but the guys at HK are pretty clever, so i'm sure it works.
I'm with you on this! H&K if you read this, make us a P7 for the 21st century!
"sorry guys, you suck and we hate you"
best wishes,
Heckler and Koch
does it have second strike capability?
if you misfire i mean. can you pull the trigger again and have it hit the primer again?
Yes, but if the slide doesn't cycle (such as when you have a misfire), you are shooting in the otherwise never-used DA mode.
i'd love to see a diagram of the internal workings of that thing.. it SOUNDS godawfully complicated, but the guys at HK are pretty clever, so i'm sure it works.
It's just a two-part hammer, really. The internal part, which is a semicircle, locks in the cocked position with the mainspring completely compressed. But the external part sort of "floats" with the trigger. When the trigger is pulled the trigger bar moves forward, the hammer moves backwards and finally the sear is tripped, releasing the hammer forward as with any hammer-fired gun.
"sorry guys, you suck and we hate you"
HK made the first polymer-framed handgun.
HK made the first modern striker-fired gun.
If I were a betting man, I'd expect to see a SFA HK within the next three years on the outside.
FromMyColdDeadHand
12-11-09, 08:07
HK made the first polymer-framed handgun.
HK made the first modern striker-fired gun.
If I were a betting man, I'd expect to see a SFA HK within the next three years on the outside.
SFA is a Squeeze Fired Action? Now that is something I could get excited about. A single stack 9mm down in the low 20 oz would be really interesting. That dog would hunt. I wouldn't even mind a 5 inch barrel model due to the barrel geometry.
Would you be more surprised if it came out, or if it didn't come out?
SFA = Striker Fired Action
FromMyColdDeadHand
12-11-09, 08:13
Ughh, I need to get rid of this P7 addiction I have.
I like my interpretation of the TLA better.
Yes, but if the slide doesn't cycle (such as when you have a misfire), you are shooting in the otherwise never-used DA mode.
It's just a two-part hammer, really. The internal part, which is a semicircle, locks in the cocked position with the mainspring completely compressed. But the external part sort of "floats" with the trigger. When the trigger is pulled the trigger bar moves forward, the hammer moves backwards and finally the sear is tripped, releasing the hammer forward as with any hammer-fired gun.
HK made the first polymer-framed handgun.
HK made the first modern striker-fired gun.
If I were a betting man, I'd expect to see a SFA HK within the next three years on the outside.
it does seem odd that HK has spent the last decade or so making very traditional style browning locked handguns, when previously they had gas delay, roller delay, hydraulic delay (or something). so it would be no surprise to see a return of something striker fired.
if it feels anything like the old P7 my glocks are gonna be collecting dust :D
Alpha Sierra
12-12-09, 08:21
When I look at my value equation, no, neither HK handguns nor rifles are worth the coin.
Not when there are less expensive options that have accumulated plenty of objective evidence of superior performance.
decodeddiesel
12-12-09, 08:37
When I look at my value equation, no, neither HK handguns nor rifles are worth the coin.
Not when there are less expensive options that have accumulated plenty of objective evidence of superior performance.
Very true when you consider you have Glock 17/19 and S&W M&P are available at a such a lower price point. Also the whole value for the dollar thing really figures in when you consider the cost and availability of spare magazines, ouch!
Still though I would love to have a P30.
I am also in the category of respecting/coveting a P30. However, I try to stick with some core gun-buying principles, which are not absolute, but I follow them whenever I can:
* Buy American, when I can do so without compromising important factors like reliability.
* Total cost of ownership (get the pistol that is going to cost significantly less over 10 years of regular use)
* Service quality (how good is the maker's warranty service)
* Aftermarket support (availability and price of parts, sights, mags, and holsters)
* Overall reliability
When I looked at these factors, for me, the M&P easily came out on top in the first 4 over the P30. In the overall reliability category, it MAY turn out (after more usage data has been collected on both pistol series) that the P30 is slightly more reliable than the M&P. But nobody knows for sure yet, and in any case, it has been well established that BOTH pistols are reliable enough for service usage. So for me, it's basically a tie on the factor of reliability, not enough info is available to swing the decision either way.
So with the above info in mind, plus the fact that I just like how well I can shoot the M&P, it was an easy decision to go with the M&P platform. To me, the P30 is an excellent gun but "not worth the premium", given the availability of guns like the G19 and the M&P.
The P30 slide is even wider than a 9mm Glock slide--a concern for IWB carry. I also see no use in sacrificing size, weight, complexity and bore axis to accommodate multiple fire control configurations.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.