PDA

View Full Version : Plate carrier ideas for L/E



Chameleox
12-10-09, 11:44
To All,
(please bear with me; there's some backstory, and details are necessary)
I belong to a relatively large city's part time tactical team. I'm currently assigned to a perimeter element. Due to recent team shake ups, our section's responsibilities have switched to close perimeter support (runners, gas, break and rake, arrest team/entry support, and driving the Bearcat) from a role best described as "sniper support". The latter didn't make sense as we're in an urban environment, but we trained as if a 100 yard crawl and stalk (with vest, backpack, and 30lb spotlight) was the norm. This was obviously flawed, and was likely an adaptation to our more rural or secluded training environments, vs our operating environment.
So, now we're realized that for the most part, we'll be setting up a perimeter within a 1-2 house radius around the target for actual call ups, and are more likely than not going to be holding on windows, backdoors, and making some entries on warrants (which are really our primary jobs) and being closer to the problem than we originally thought (I can remember in some circumstances in our older model the snipers were closer to the target house than we were).
The PROBLEM is that with this shift in duties and training (which was needed) we need to look at how our gear is set up. Entry uses III armor and occasionally plates. We're issued OD Blackhawk zip up MOLLE vests, and have to either bring in our patrol armor or put an old vest in the gear truck. A lot of our gear funds go elsewhere (thats a rant for later).
When the shift in duties, along with a new team leader, came up, I proposed that we look for some sort of armor and LB system that will suit our needs for protection and mobility. I figured that we'd need more protection than an old patrol vest, but probably less than the entry team's setup. I also didn't want to use the entry teams old vests for a number of reasons, not least of which is that as the perimeter team, concealment and mobility are still somewhat important to us, and the old entry vests wouldn't let us carry our equipment where we're used to and don't blend in as well as our multicam does.
So, I proposed looking at MOLLE plate carriers that would allow us to work with our concealed vests, and allow us to "up-armor" if needed. I figured that we'd get them in OD or Ranger/Smoke Green to aid in concealment.
SO, I looked at several plate carriers, and Eagle's Rhodesian Plate Carrier stands out for these reasons:
1. It allows the operator to carry plates or not, depending on the mission
2. It's not too big, so it would allow for more mobility, and allow us to carry gas or the dam spotlights on our backs
3. There is a back panel available (as well as the Yote pack), which would allow us to put plates on our backs (and hang POLICE placards, which is important to the brass)
4. Not too expensive (we have the plates)

Summed up, I'm looking for suggestions for an armor/load bearing setup for a perimeter element for a tactical team that will either operate with or close to the entry element in a close support role, or separately in an open field type environment (we also have several large parks). I'm looking for a system that can be worn with armor or without, depending on mission needs. Our loadout is typically 200 rnds of .223, comms, cuffs, and water (gas and bangs are carried sometimes, too, and a couple of us also have IFAKs).
Any help that you can provide is greatly appreciated.
Thanks for looking.

NCPatrolAR
12-10-09, 11:56
How about the Mayflower MOLLE armor carrier? Another suggestion would be the Paraclete SOHPC

Chameleox
12-10-09, 12:34
Thanks NC.
The Paraclete design looks like it's intended to be worn with standalone plates only, and not with concealable armor. If that's the case, then we'd likely have to buy new plates. I'm all for it, but I think the bosses will balk at the idea.
I like the Mayflower design. Reviews here seem to paint a great picture of this company. Correct me if I'm wrong, but according to their site you can order one for plates only and one for plates and armor combined? One that would let us wear our concealable armor underneath and plates on top would be perfect! Decent price too. Do you or anyone else here have any experience with this Mayflower product? https://mayflower-rc.com/our-products/low-vis-assault-armor-carrier/

NCPatrolAR
12-10-09, 13:48
The SOHPC will not allow you to use your concealment cut armor unless you were it in a carrier under the SOHPC.

Here is a link for reviews of the Mayflower carrier

https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=34596&highlight=Mayflower

Keith E.
12-11-09, 11:15
Please consider side protection also as my home county just lost a Deputy b/c of that.

Keith

Chameleox
12-11-09, 11:50
Well, I talked to the big boss (or at least bigger boss) about this yesterday. He likes the idea, and hopes it gets brought forward.
I'd like side coverage too. Mayflower looks like the one that would best suit our needs and provide side coverage.
Part of the concern is convincing the bosses that we need protection and mobility, while at the same time convincing them that our mission has changed and necessitates the upgrade.
Training dates later this month. I'll try to pitch the idea.

MIKE G
12-11-09, 12:12
.....

Chameleox
12-11-09, 13:18
The option to not wear plates came about because a lot of operators and brass on the team still think that we'll be worm crawling through 4 backyards to the target address, carrying a metric shitload of gear in backpacks (ECWCS, spotlights, helmet, gasmask, etc).
This mentality came from training in what could be called a "ghost town". See, we had available to us about a thousand acres of grassland, prairie, and decommissioned buildings and warehouses that would function as our training facility (the folks who owned it were pretty cop friendly). We could train with multiple buildings, without having people watch us or worry about the neighbors complaining about the noise. Problem was, this area was without the close packed houses, roads, walls, fences, etc. that we actually operate in, and had no streetlights or ambient lights. So, we schlepped all that stuff in, and it became part of the SOP.
Some people, primarily those in charge, think we'll need to load up and move out with everything on our backs, which while possible is a long way off of what our actual mission parameters are. Being able to doff the plates is a concession to those want that capability, though I plan on leaving mine in.
Side coverage? I agree, but as it is, we hardly have front or rear coverage. After talking to one of the other commanders, I'm more inclined to shoot for the moon with this project, and get something more like the SOHPC, which I like. I disregarded the side armor issue at first because it was already unlikely that the bosses would go for the idea at all, and jacking up the price wasn't going to help. I was actually going to just buy something out of pocket and be done with it($ is a factor).
The other concern that I have is that in our current setup, most of the perimeter guys thread their belts through the vests bottom straps, and keep it all together in one piece. If we switched, we'd have to go with a separate belt system. I'm OK with that since I do it now. Some of the guys will bitch about it though, and the bosses will complain about cost and procurement, but given the state of society these days, I think its worth it.
The more I look at Mayflower and the Paraclete designs, the more I like them, and think they'll suit our needs nicely. If the department is willing to fund them (and they might if proposed properly), then I'll go with one of them.
Thanks guys.

GIFFMANN
12-11-09, 14:48
Mayflower definitely has some great options. I just sold some to a local Federal agency as well as a local Security firm looking to improve protection for their roving patrols through some less than desirable areas.


Whereabouts in the midwest are you located? I'd be happy to, if you guys are close enough, to bring some sample setups out for you guys to play with and such.

MIKE G
12-11-09, 15:29
......

Klear Above
12-14-09, 15:09
For the role that you need one carrier to fill, I have to agree with the gentlemen above. If you are planning on running armor all the time (it is a good idea if people are going to dependably shoot at you), then the SOHPC is a great way to go. There are enough threads about the greatness that is the SOHPC, it works. If you are looking for a rig that will work with concealment (duty) armor, and you can run slick, or with plates, or with a field expedient chest rack attached directly, or with shoulder straps without the armor carrier....then the Mayflower Low Pro Carrier with the Gen 4 QD Chest Rack can't be beat. Just my two cents.

Chameleox
12-15-09, 07:44
We do run some sort of armor all the time. Currently its IIIA vests concealed under a split front vest(for the most part, we're using our old, expired, patrol vests). For what we do, I just don't think its enough. Some of my teammates don't seem to mind. That's the initial reason for wanting a plate carrying capability in a system that will work without plates; some people think its enough and just don't want to be burdened with more armor:confused:.

I like the SOHPC and the Mayflower setups, from what I've seen. I like the of having the armor and plates in one package. We had a year end check in of sorts yesterday at training. The boss is skeptical of getting funding for armor, but sees the merit. He's given me the go ahead to start writing a proposal for new armor for our section.
Thanks for all your support, everyone.
Chameleox

Chameleox
12-28-09, 12:42
Thanks for the help everyone!
I wrote up a short proposal, highlighting the need for our section to have our own plate carrier system, noted why the current system and the cheap option of giving us old entry vests won't work, and listed some of the available models and styles that are out there. The bosses seem pleased, and we'll hopefully be moving forward with this very soon.
Thanks again!

igoswoop
12-28-09, 13:12
THIS: http://www.skdtac.com/PIG_Plate_Carrier_p/pig.502.htm

Just dropped a few days ago. With all the flexibility it offers, it might be worth a look. Patrol Incident Gear by Eagle is really solid kit from everything I've handled.

Kentucky Cop
12-28-09, 15:39
THIS: http://www.skdtac.com/PIG_Plate_Carrier_p/pig.502.htm

Just dropped a few days ago. With all the flexibility it offers, it might be worth a look. Patrol Incident Gear by Eagle is really solid kit from everything I've handled.

That rig is super nice! I was always in love with the Mayflower but that one has my eye. The only drawback on the PIG is that you cant put any soft armor in it which I think was one of the OP's requirements. If only the PIG accepted "duty" armor and the plates....it would be a winner in my book.
Cheers!

Chameleox
12-29-09, 07:39
I think they're going to offer soft backers or inserts for the PIG later in the year. It might be an option. It seems that some of the bosses think we can fast track this, which is a big plus, since we're running missions NOW. I think they have their eyes on the Mayflower system.

Kentucky Cop
12-29-09, 14:50
I think they're going to offer soft backers or inserts for the PIG later in the year. It might be an option. It seems that some of the bosses think we can fast track this, which is a big plus, since we're running missions NOW. I think they have their eyes on the Mayflower system.

Have you checked out the sticky on "Load Out Gear"? Check out the Tactical Tailor HEV. It seems to do what your asking out of a vest and very comparable to the Mayflower and Paraclete. Price is in the range also.......just another option for you to look at. The HEV appears to accept "duty armor" and plates.

CBTech
12-29-09, 15:25
My suggestion would be to go SOHPC and encourage SOP to be that plates stay in. If you are having to worm crawl to avoid detection than the threat is real enough to justify armor AND your possibility for detection thus requiring an immediate response is present.




Word up.

My unit uses the SOHPC and it's not a pain in the ass to operate with the plates. You can't dictate when someone is going to shoot your ass so why gamble on armor.