View Full Version : Manufacturere read this, take my idea, and make product
threeheadeddog
12-10-09, 20:38
I have been thinking alot lately about making my very basic mid-length AR more usable for me and cant get around the fact that I have long arms that need all or more of a midlength handguard for a "modern hold" that leaves little length left for both a front sight and light.
I basically need to have alot of length to get what I feel I want on the top rail when I buy a rail. This becomes even more of an issue when I am only wanting to do this project as a SBR and I find myself fighting the length of barrel vs length of handguard wanting the barrel as short as possible while having the handguard be long enought to not cramp my shooting form.
Anyway alot of talk to get to the point. Why not make a rail mounted light with a built in fixed front sight. Basically an x300 with a post and ears. I dont know about the feasability of doing it in a flip up style ,but common someone please make one of these.
Just an open rant. Thought that complaining to myself was doing no good so maby something good would come from complaining out loud.
have you seen this?
http://www.danieldefense.com/img/product/c4cd4e0379a66e0736da6ae5f6065dee.jpg
have you seen this?
http://www.danieldefense.com/img/product/c4cd4e0379a66e0736da6ae5f6065dee.jpg
Yeah, and it's not what he wants.
If he puts a light at 12 o'clock in front of the front sight, then it'll block the sights because it'll be too high sitting on top of the rail.
I don't understand why anybody puts a top rail in front of the front sight. Anything mounted on the rail and the front sight are going to be in the way of each other.
ThreeHeadedDog, this is a great idea. I hope somebody builds it.
Bimmer
An x300 won't block the sights.
ETA: Sorry, this is a Streamlight TLR-1 in the photo
http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/sh/large/_Q8P9759.jpg
OK, I was wrong (again), though it looks like it's really close to blocking the sights (close enough that a TLR-1 in the same spot would block the sights).
Regardless, ThreeHeadedDog's idea is a good one...
Bimmer
OK, I was wrong (again), though it looks like it's really close to blocking the sights (close enough that a TLR-1 in the same spot would block the sights).
Regardless, ThreeHeadedDog's idea is a good one...
Bimmer
The photo shows a TLR-1, my mistake.
spamsammich
12-11-09, 13:19
http://web.me.com/supermarkus/iWeb/Site/LMT%20carbine%20update_files/IMG_1704.jpg
I don't have any problems with my MBUS and a X300.
RetreatHell
12-11-09, 16:19
Here's a pic from a recent EAG Tactical carbine course that I snagged from another forum. The rifle belongs to Stephen_H (at least I'm pretty sure it's the same Stephen, I could be wrong though).
Look closely, there's a front sight mounted on the Surefire X300 benzel. When asked if it was a pre-production product or a prototype, he said, "A little of both, I think." That's all the comments I saw on it, though.
I personally think it looks pretty damn cool and is a great idea, although I currently have no need for one on any of my present carbine setups. But I know a lot of guys would like to have them if they ever become available.
http://i685.photobucket.com/albums/vv219/RetreatHell/Magpul%20AFG/146102205_PR_COC_-_4.jpg
Semper Fi,
-Paul
threeheadeddog
12-11-09, 20:30
That last pic looks like a great adaptation of what I was looking for. I know that there are many people putting front sights in front of the weapon light and I think that that is great, but for me it is simply not very easy.
I dont know the proper way to measure arm length but I just measured 80 inches +- from tip of finger to tip of finger(wing span, I guess). I use up alot of space on my handguard to get into the modern form. A front sight/light combo would free up some room for me to get my off hand out and over the gun to control recoil better.
I currently am running a mid-length with standard handguard and fixed front sight, and dont really have enough room to grip it right. My off hand thumb hangs over onto the fixed sight; which, though I havent actually heated the gun up very well, I suspect would get hot and uncomfortable under more rigorous use.
Yeah, and it's not what he wants.
If he puts a light at 12 o'clock in front of the front sight, then it'll block the sights because it'll be too high sitting on top of the rail.
I don't understand why anybody puts a top rail in front of the front sight. Anything mounted on the rail and the front sight are going to be in the way of each other.
ThreeHeadedDog, this is a great idea. I hope somebody builds it.
Bimmer
you'd be wrong...
OK, I was wrong (again), though it looks like it's really close to blocking the sights (close enough that a TLR-1 in the same spot would block the sights).
Bimmer
DOH! two in a row!
just kidding... :D
How's about a rail mounted front sight post that is also a ring mount for standard diameter flashlight? Think scope ring (proper diameter for a flashlight) with the top part of a FSP on top of it (at the proper height).
Bottom: Rail mount + bottom half of flashlight ring mount.
Top: Top of flashlight ring mount + the rest of the front sight post.
...so basically your flashlight is mounted through the middle of your FSP.
This is a 16" barrel with a 12" rail. I get pretty far out on it. X300 @ 12 o'clock. Not sure if I would want the BU front sight mounted to the light. sight mounted to light, mounted to rail. Seems like quite a few places for alignment to go bad at just the wrong time, which is why I generally like the standard FSP on a hard use rifle, for its durability. Wouldn't be against giving one a T&E.
http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd60/SSDSurf/Guns/IMG_31281.jpg
Here's a quick MS Paint sketch of the sorta thing I was thinking (ignore lack of symmetry, scale, etc)...
http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg90/mattj__photos/ar/fsp-lightmount.jpg
That green/yellow thing in the middle represents the light.
Surf, you may be right about the durability / coming out of alignment concerns -- on the other hand, we trust ring mounts like that to keep scopes and stuff aligned, so I dunno.
the_fallguy
12-11-09, 23:25
I think it might work on the lights that don't have adjustable bezels. Streamlight's SSL-1 would be a good candidate since it looks like the whole front end/bezel assembly is screwed on. A cnc machined bezel with the FSP wouldn't be as big of a stretch for them to convert to. Send e'm a letter or call a rep and ask about it.
OK, I was wrong (again), though it looks like it's really close to blocking the sights (close enough that a TLR-1 in the same spot would block the sights).
Regardless, ThreeHeadedDog's idea is a good one...
Bimmer
I have a DDM4 with a Streamlight TLR1 mounted at 12 oclock in front of the FSB. It does not block the front sight. It does slightly change the sight picture because you don't see as much of the base of the FSB, but you get a full view of the important thing, the sight post. I sighted the rifle in with the light mounted and am able to get good groupings at 50 yards despite the fact that I suck at irons.
What would be really solid is a lower profile X300 type light.
threeheadeddog
12-13-09, 13:30
For me the profile doesnt matter. Just the added rail space that placing both the front sight and light on 12 o'clock rail takes up. I guess untill some manufacturer does something I may just try and mount my light in either the 10:30 or 1:30 position(when I get the rail that is).
As a side note I dont think you would need to have a zero issue with front sight for this. If it did happen that instead of a X300/front post combo it was simply a light-mount/front sight combo like mattj posted you could always have the light mount have a solid hole (as in no tightening screws or anything just rail lock, big hole and post on top) with the mounting tension devise seperate. Try to visualize a mount long enough to have 2 rings. One is just the sight with the tightening ring behind it so the sight doenst have a worry of loostening. One could also use a collet type tightening devise.
Just food for thought.
Thomas M-4
12-13-09, 13:39
Is this what you are talking about.
http://www.m-guns.com/photos//aem_small.thumb.jpg
The Larue goose neck rail with an x300 and a dd front sight might give you what you want, you should have almost 10" of top rail behind the front sight.
If it did happen that instead of a X300/front post combo it was simply a light-mount/front sight combo like mattj posted you could always have the light mount have a solid hole (as in no tightening screws or anything just rail lock, big hole and post on top) with the mounting tension devise seperate. Try to visualize a mount long enough to have 2 rings. One is just the sight with the tightening ring behind it so the sight doenst have a worry of loostening. One could also use a collet type tightening devise.
Just food for thought.
threeheadeddog: That's a really good thought about not using the front sight itself to hold the light -- I think the winner is to make the rail mounted FSP not a light mount at all, but just a FSP that has a donut hole in it, the height and size/shape of the hole designed such that all or part of "most" lights will be able to pass through the hole. That way, it could be just as "solid" as any other rail mounted FSP, and it would allow you to use a standard (or integrated into the light) light mount and either mount the light:
a) behind the "donut fsp" so that the front of the light is inside of or passes through the "fsp donut".
-or-
b) in front of the "donut fsp" so that the rear of the light (and presumably the rear tail switch/button) sticks out the back of the FSP giving the user access to it.
I suppose there's no reason that there couldn't also be a integral to the gas block version of the same concept for those who want/need the durability of having the FSP integral to the gas block.
I think the winner is to make the rail mounted FSP not a light mount at all, but just a FSP that has a donut hole in it, the height and size/shape of the hole designed such that all or part of "most" lights will be able to pass through the hole.
+1
Make the whole 1", since that seems to be the "standard" size of the barrels of weapon lights...
Bimmer
threeheadeddog
12-14-09, 20:58
mattj
We are thinking very similar. Your last post is a great idea. Especially for those wanting to use standard lights for this.
I actually came to this thread again to post another idea very similar to yours that hit me today. For specifically the x300 you could make a front sight post with the donut hole that had a shelf just behind the post with 6 pre-cut holes corresponding to the threaded holes on the underside of the x300 to low mount the x300. Looking at robs' pics of the x300 and trl-1 on his websight it would probably be no higher than a standard trl-1 and if the x300 was designed to slip through donut then be screwed on it would be no longer than just using a x300 by itself.
threeheadeddog
12-14-09, 20:59
Oh btw I thing I forgot to say that my ideal SBR size would be using a 11.5 inch barrel, which is why I am so worried about overall rail space.
mattj
We are thinking very similar. Your last post is a great idea. Especially for those wanting to use standard lights for this.
I actually came to this thread again to post another idea very similar to yours that hit me today. For specifically the x300 you could make a front sight post with the donut hole that had a shelf just behind the post with 6 pre-cut holes corresponding to the threaded holes on the underside of the x300 to low mount the x300. Looking at robs' pics of the x300 and trl-1 on his websight it would probably be no higher than a standard trl-1 and if the x300 was designed to slip through donut then be screwed on it would be no longer than just using a x300 by itself.
I'm totally following -- I think that would be really slick. Now we just need somebody to hurry up and make both versions! I wish I had a 3d printer and some CAD skills to rapid prototype them just to play with.
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