running a .308/7.62 in a carbine class...

[30 cal slut]

has anyone done it?

i got this question from an individual who does not have an AR/M4, but wants to take a carbine class, with an M1/A or similar.

can't say i remember anyone, say, in a class run by LAV, for example, that ran a battle rifle.

is there a unique safety issue being up close to a berm and shooting with a .308?

thanks.

-slut

[SHIVAN]

KevinB runs an SR-25, and Costa has been photographed recently using one too. Drake has used a Massoud too.

Vicker's held a battle rifle class in South Hill, VA several months ago.

Shouldn't be any issues with berms or steel, as M193 and M855 actually do more "damage" to steel up close than M80 ball does.

http://i685.photobucket.com/albums/vv219/RetreatHell/Magpul%20Class/IMG_9406.jpg
Thread: http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=39576

[SHIVAN]

http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/sh/huge/_32Y6330.jpg
http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/sh/huge/_32Y5764.jpg

Thread: http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=27518

[SHIVAN]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Tim_Orrock/Vickers%20Battle%20Rifle%20Class%209-01-07/Day%201/DSC00196.jpg

Thread: Battle Rifle Class AAR (http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=7337&highlight=vickers+battle+class)

[JeepDriver]

I've been wanting to do this myself. I have a full size M1A with UltiMAK rail and Aimpoint I would love to try out in a shooting and moving enviroment.

I would just prefer it to be an all Battle Rifle class.

[kmrtnsn]

I can see it now; someone transition an M1A to handgun, drop the M1A on the sling and subsequently break their toe with the muzzle.

[TOrrock]

has anyone done it?

i got this question from an individual who does not have an AR/M4, but wants to take a carbine class, with an M1/A or similar.

can't say i remember anyone, say, in a class run by LAV, for example, that ran a battle rifle.

is there a unique safety issue being up close to a berm and shooting with a .308?

thanks.

-slut

If he doesn't have an AR but has an M1A, then he should run with what he has, and any good instructor worthy of the title will be able to adapt to having him in the class and be able to help him out.

There shouldn't be any issues at all, as long as he's using good quality ammo.

[TOrrock]

I can see it now; someone transition an M1A to handgun, drop the M1A on the sling and subsequently break their toe with the muzzle.

http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=7337

Won't happen with a good quality sling.

[kmrtnsn]

I know, I was being facetious and merely commenting on the length of the M1A.

[30 cal slut]

thanks (and nice pics :D ).

we have some guys up in my neck of the woods who have M1/A's, and may not have the $$$ to pick up a dedicated M4 for a carbine class.

having said that, you're going to be paying an awful lot for 7.62 ammo to participate in class. :eek:

[Jager]

I ran through one of Hackathorn's "Urban Rifle" courses with an HK91 without any issues. I had the only .308, there was one 7.62x39 AK, all the rest were .223.

[Serpico1985]

I was going to take a class at U.S. Training Center, one of there basic carbine or pistol/carbine classes but at the time only had my LRB M14 clone (M25 receiver, Vltor stock, aimpoint, Vickers padded sling). I called up there and they checked with whoever has the final say so and they said it wouldn't be a problem. I was not able to take the course due to schedule conflict.

I recall a thread on lightfighter posing the same question. Pat Rodgers made comments on the poor safety location of the safety on the M1A/M14 and that it wasn't a good idea for a tactical fast paced class. I asked how the safety was in a poor location and he pointed out something painfully obvious that never occurred to me. You have to put your finger into the trigger guard to release the safety. Up until that point I had been practicing nightly from going from the low ready safety on to pointing at an imaginary target safety off and engaging safety dropping rifle then drawing secondary.

I guess you can train your way through that issue. But if you were releasing the safety and at that exact moment and something terrible or violent happened your finger would be in the trigger guard and I guess could squeeze unintentionally and have a negligent discharge.

Something like an SR25, FAL etc may be safer from a range officer point of view for a fast paced class.

Also, let me clarify, I love the M1A and think it’s a viable weapon system, especially with some of the modern upgrades. I would still like to get mine to a rifle class when time/money allow.

[30 cal slut]

...the poor safety location of the safety on the M1A/M14 and that it wasn't a good idea for a tactical fast paced class...You have to put your finger into the trigger guard to release the safety.

EEP. Good point. If you have a class with many beginners, maybe M1/A's aren't the best option.

[variablebinary]

Had a guy run an M1A scout in the last class I was in. He shot very well.

Also, I got to shoot his gun, and I must say, shooting 7.62 NATO made me tingly

[Business_Casual]

There is a "winter" modification for the M1A safety that allows you to use it without putting your finger inside the trigger guard.

M_P

[QuickStrike]

There is a "winter" modification for the M1A safety that allows you to use it without putting your finger inside the trigger guard.

M_P

+1.

This along with a stock with a pistol grip (Vltor and others), should allow you to engage/disengage the safety with your index finger outside of the trigger guard, and still keep a firing hand grip on the gun.

Even with my munchkin hands...

http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn121/quickstrikes112/wintersafetyoff.jpg

http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn121/quickstrikes112/wintersafetyon.jpg

Still not as good as the safety on an AR or FAL, but arguably equal to an enhanced AK safety with some practice + it's truely ambidextrous.

[macman37]

+1.

This along with a stock with a pistol grip (Vltor and others), should allow you to engage/disengage the safety with your index finger outside of the trigger guard, and still keep a firing hand grip on the gun.

Even with my munchkin hands...

http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn121/quickstrikes112/wintersafetyoff.jpg

http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn121/quickstrikes112/wintersafetyon.jpg

Still not as good as the safety on an AR or FAL, but arguably equal to an enhanced AK safety with some practice + it's truely ambidextrous.

Huh... nifty. Where does that come from?

[rob_s]

If the .308 is your primary and all you have, run it if the instructor is up for it. One of the benefits of the class environment is seeing if you guns & gear stand up to the application.

one thing to bear in mind, regardless of caliber, is that if you attend with an off-standard platform you had better come prepared to maintain your own weapon system. IMHO this means one complete spare rifle and enough spares parts to keep the gun running, but if you attend a class like an EAG you'll have the benefit of the instructor and staff having spares, tools, and know-how to keep the AR system running.

[QuickStrike]

Huh... nifty. Where does that come from?

I believe they were issued parts for especially cold weather. It might have come as a kit that included the winter trigger, but the winter trigger seems like a baaaaad idea..

The garand also had something like this. Dunno if they can interchange.

I got mine off of gunbroker.

[macman37]

I believe they were issued parts for especially cold weather. It might have come as a kit that included the winter trigger, but the winter trigger seems like a baaaaad idea..

The garand also had something like this. Dunno if they can interchange.

I got mine off of gunbroker.


I appreciate the followup. :)

[esskay]

Guys, thanks for the info about the "winter" safety, that's pretty neat.

I've been playing with using my strong thumb to flick off the safety after noticing Jason Falla doing that on TV. In absence of a winter safety, the thumb seems to be a solid way to go.