View Full Version : Took my new Glock 17 to range yesterday.
And my groupings were good... this was the best 15 round grouping of the day :D however I was aiming at the eagle in the middle of the official competition image :o roughly 10-15 yards.
http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/5287/image030xc.jpg
By caeser2001 (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/caeser2001), shot with 5610 XpressMusic (http://profile.imageshack.us/camerabuy.php?model=5610+XpressMusic&make=Nokia) at 2009-12-14
The Dumb Gun Collector
12-14-09, 17:56
Nice tight group!
MarshallDodge
12-14-09, 22:12
Very nice!
Dos Cylindros
12-15-09, 14:06
Glocks have always shot a little to the left for me. Every Glock I own, I have had to drift the rear sight to the right.
They're fixed Glock factory night sites
spamsammich
12-15-09, 20:29
Glocks have always shot a little to the left for me. Every Glock I own, I have had to drift the rear sight to the right.
You should write Glock and inform them that their fixtures are off ;)
You should write Glock and inform them that their fixtures are off ;)
Joke if you want, but Heinie makes their Glock rear sights with the notch purposely cut off-center because most people tend to pull their shots left with the Glocks. I always thought it was an interwebz rumor-myth until Richard Heinie mentioned it to me himself.
Glocks shoot to the left for me as well.
A well known instructor calls this shooting to the left with the Glock, "El Snatcho".
Glocks have always shot a little to the left for me. Every Glock I own, I have had to drift the rear sight to the right.
This is common practice for the VBPD.
Well at least you have a degree of precision on your side!
FWIW, when I see a right-handed student constantly shooting to the left with a Glock I recommend putting less finger through the trigger guard, pulling the trigger from closer to the tip of the finger than the first joint. This solves the problem for about half the people simply & quickly.
I am glad I am not the only one who shoots a Glock to the left. I had a chance to put some rounds through a G17 a few years back, trying to decide between a Glock or something else. From a rest I was centered up, from the hand I was left. Nice groups, but left. Other guns didn't do this so I passed on the Glock. I am a better shooter now, I wonder if it is still true for me? Do M&P shooters experience this?
Nice groups!
I also shoot to the left with my Glock 17. I have Trijicon sights on mine and I plan on moving the rear over once I get back stateside. I had always wondered if it was just me :confused:
I had to move my rear sight over on my G19 as I was shooting it to the left, however with a G17, G22, G30, I don't have this problem. These all have the rear sights centered. Anyone want to take a stab at why this is?
To elaborate on my earlier post, again with clues handed out by the same instructor, you have a pistol weighing about 1.5 lb loaded with a trigger weighing at least 5.5 lb, or maybe 6 or more. Trigger pull pressure will overcome the weight of the gun and make you pull to the lower left (right handers).
With proper trigger reset, shooting from a bench, all Glocks or any other DA or striker fired pistols will shoot POA/POI. All shooters are capable of duplicating this.
The problem starts when you shoot standing up or under some sort of simulated stress (match event), most of us right handed mortals will shoot low left to an extent. Some more, some less.
I shoot a nice 4" dead center group at 20 yds. with my Glock 19 when I'm taking my time. Then during GSSF or IDPA matches, those nice little groups start to wander low and left the faster I shoot.
If we all can do a perfect trigger reset every shot all the time, we'd be like shooting from a Ransom rest. :)
Todd,
I've noticed that on my G19 and especially on my M&P9 there is always movement of the front sight when doing the wall drill one handed. The only way I can can stop it is to clamp down on my grip. Is the front sight movement a function of not pressing the trigger straight back, or is it just from the striker releasing all that energy? Both my Glock and M&P9 are set up for 6lb-ish pulls (NY1/3.5 connector, and a PT.com M&P clone).
The balancing an empty case on the front sight/dry fire drill while is almost impossible for me with the M&P with one hand. With a 1911, no problem.
thanks,
James
This is common practice for the VBPD.
Wow, I had never heard that before! Maybe if they spent as much time at the range as Norfolk they wouldnt have to do that......:D
Wow, I had never heard that before! Maybe if they spent as much time at the range as Norfolk they wouldnt have to do that......:D
Maybe but keep in mind that not all officers are "gun guys" (or gals) and only shoot when they need to re-qual.
Maybe but keep in mind that not all officers are "gun guys" (or gals) and only shoot when they need to re-qual.
Youre preachin to the choir man. I witness the trials and tribulations of department quals twice a year......sometimes its enough to make you cringe. I was just takin the opportunity to poke the beach boys;)
LHQ -- If you're used to a very crisp 1911 SA trigger break, Glocks and M&Ps are going to take a little getting used to. They're simply more prone to suffer from things like grittiness and -- probably what you're having to deal with -- some overtravel. The M&P in particular tends to have a good bit of overtravel in a lot of their stock triggers.
However, look at just how much your sight moves when it does dip. I'm betting it's very slight. While a lot of folks point to the trigger press as the most important part of accuracy and the culprit for most bad shots, the reality is that it's almost always recoil anticipation (or, if you prefer for the better shooters, improper post ignition push timing). With a good two-handed hold, most folks can slap the holy hell out of a trigger and still get reasonably good hits at 7yd. It's when you literally push the whole gun off target with your arms because you responded too early to the recoil that things go south. Excuse the pun.
spamsammich
12-17-09, 00:43
On a good day I shoot POA=POI with my M&P 9. I found that I have to float my dot (came with factory 3 dot tritium night sights) even from rest. My dad swore up, down, and sideways that the sights were off on my gun. He's used to shooting a 1911. When he shot the gun from a rest, he shot just a little under POA but grouped well. He cuts his target in half with the front sight.
I haven't shot other M&Ps to compare. With Glocks, I've had problems with recoil anticipation and shooting low/left but I know it's me because from a rest and cutting the target in half I'm POA=POI. Now I usually blame myself before the gun if accuracy is off.
I shoot about the same poi to the right with my XD and Sig. I then shot from bench with the XD and poa=poi. I haven't tried with Sig or Glock yet.
millerlite
12-18-09, 11:31
hey guys, whats the wall drill?
hey guys, whats the wall drill?
Here ya go buddy: http://pistol-training.com/drills/wall-drill
FWIW, when I see a right-handed student constantly shooting to the left with a Glock I recommend putting less finger through the trigger guard, pulling the trigger from closer to the tip of the finger than the first joint. This solves the problem for about half the people simply & quickly.
I was doing that + dragging the tip of my finger along the trigger guard on his M&P and Sigma and voila accuracy dramatically improved.
Not to hijack, but since the topic of shooting left with a Glock came up....I shoot POA with my 23 and 30. Dead left with my 27, not sure why.
FWIW, when I see a right-handed student constantly shooting to the left with a Glock I recommend putting less finger through the trigger guard, pulling the trigger from closer to the tip of the finger than the first joint. This solves the problem for about half the people simply & quickly.
Todd,
I shoot left with my glocks, someday's, more then others.
One thing I noticed, is that the heavier the trigger, the worse it is. My personal guns have 3.5# connectors, work gun from former employer, 5.5#, and now 8#. They "seem" to be progressively worse. Drifting the rear sight only mitigates it.
What at least one instructor(at work) told me, was I needed more finger on the trigger, which is kinda what I thought. When I consciously put more finger on the trigger, and therfore, pull it more directly to the rear, it seems to cure it, to a degree. Problem, with that, the gun does not sit very centered in my hand.
I've had other "shooters", tell me to push with my left thumb on the frame, or squeeze harder with my left hand. Perhaps I am a girly man?
While, I've had other brands shoot left, I don't recall it being anywhere near as consistent or pronounced as with the Glocks.
I'm sure learning to shoot a handgun with a 1911, and then 20 plus years of shooting 1911's with short triggers and flat MSH's, has not helped. Not my smaller hands(size 8 in flight gloves).
My M&P .40 w/pro sear, and M&P .45 with stock trigger, don't "seem" to exhibit this problem.
I use the term "seem" in quotes, because I do not want to make any absolute statements, as any number of things could've changed, including my grip.
I will be taking, yet another, basic pistol class with LAV, and will make the effort to have him examine my grip and what I'm doing wrong, to get this straight.
Any hints, pointers. Unfortunately my shooting is limited thes days. But, hey I still qual at over 90% so it can't be all bad.;)
Thanks,
Bob
I'm convinced that some Glocks tend to shoot left period. When I do the wall drill, and when I dry fire in general, my front sight is dead steady, I can even keep an empty case on my front sight, generally, when I dry fire. My best bullseye efforts yield around a .5" group (outside edge to outside edge) at 25 feet, off hand, but with my Glock 17 that group winds up 1.5 cm to the left. I've drifted the rear sights of both of my Glock 17's right.
However both of my Glock 19's shoot dead on. Now the grips and trigger reach and even trigger (target trigger of G19 vs the smooth one of the G17) are different, so I am in fact still a bit suspicious that it is a mal-manipulation of the G17 that's causing the G17's to group left, but since my dry fire does not reflect this (even witnessed by others) I can only surmise that for whatever reason G17's shoot left on their own.
Could it be something to do with the way the barrel's locking lug engages the slide lock (a bit off center)? I can't remember the chap's name that sells those forged slide locks that are supposed to increase accuracy in the Glock, but these things, I think, are purported to engage the locking lug more consistently, and more evenly, and I wonder if they'd cure the shoot left problem.
So in short it does seem that less than optimal trigger and sight control exacerbates, or even causes the shoot left problem, so this further confuses the issue, but again, I'd say that if your dry fire reveals no problems with trigger and sight control, it is probably the gun.
Bob -- When "use less finger" doesn't work, the next thing I try is "use more trigger." It's not nearly as common, but it does help some people. And fwiw, I've got fairly short fingers and have never worried about the traditional "slide in a straight line with forearm" kind of grip that people used to teach. Getting a solid grip on the gun is what matters.
Thanks Todd, I'll try and see, hopefully LAV can put eyes on for me.
I understand on the center grip thing, but, sometimes I feel like my thumb knuckle is, under the grip strap. I've thought about seeing if Bowie or Ben could notch it, like some of the 1911 grip safeties.
I also know that the gun is recoiling before the bullet leaves the barrel, so therefore I believe that grip, both position, and strength, can affect bullet impact, and to a much lesser extent stance. Am I off on this?
Another thing I have noticed, is the Glock trigger lock. Sometimes, especially with gloves, your finger does not release the lock, therefor you gradually increase pressure, finally the meat of your finger curls around, the trigger unlocks, and you shank the shot.
The smaller grip insert on the M&P, along with the hinged trigger, alleviates this, at least for me.
Bob
Your grip can definitely affect point of impact. But that's a function of imparting pressure on the gun post-ignition. Don't do that. :cool:
As for the Glock trigger safety, it's definitely an issue under some circumstances. The first shooting PASP had with their new G37s resulted in a stoppage which was blamed on the Trooper's thick gloves failing to press the trigger safety.
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