G19 vs G17 vs 1911 grip angle

[1oldgrunt]

Those of you who have shot G19's and 17's together do you notice a difference in the way they point.

here's my dilema I'm a long time 1911 shooter and if I grab a G17 it points Hi to me. Now if I shoot it a bunch ,I can compensate for it. the problem is ...IF I shoot a G17 for a while and grab a 1911 they point low for me.

Someone suggested a G19 ....but will it make a difference??

I like the reliability of a Glock over a 1911 but am hesitant to totally switch to the Glock platform.

Any relative input is greatly appreciated.

[ChicagoTex]

The only way the G19 should make a significant difference in grip angle is if your hands are on the large side (large enough that a G19 doesn't really fill it).

Where the G19 might be helpful is the balance issue which, in my opinion, is the greater contrast between a 1911 and Glock.

Try it at a gun shop and see.

If size isn't an issue, you should also make it a point to try a G34, most 1911 enthusiasts find they point a lot better for them than other Glocks.

[Business_Casual]

What does "point high" mean, anyway? Do you just point at the target and if the sights aren't on you give up and go back to a 1911? Could you aim the pistol after "raising it up" as they say on the Internet?

M_P

[silentsod]

I hear some manufacturers have begun putting three bumps on the pistol to help with this issue.

Hearsay until I see it for myself.


Grip angle is a non-issue as your brain will learn and correct for it quickly, as you have already experienced.

[Paul45]

The g17/22 and the G34/35 have the exact same frame. I have the opposite issue. I shoot the G17 lower than my 1911's - heavier trigger pull - I tend to pull it down. After a little practice I am OK. No issue going back to a 1911. Just focus on the sites and trigger control.
The G19/23 and the G26/27 shoot about the same as my large frames. If I focus on the sites and the trigger, I hit where I aim. Same with any gun - site control, trigger control, breath control. Just have to remember and focus. It is much easier if you stick to one type of trigger / action. When I do change action types, I change all the guns for awhile - .22's, bugs, practice guns, carry guns. Single action autos, double action autos, revolvers, Safe action autos. I practice then change, when I change back, I practice then change. I try to keep like actions together.

[MIKE G]

......

[BAC]

here's my dilema I'm a long time 1911 shooter and if I grab a G17 it points Hi to me. Now if I shoot it a bunch ,I can compensate for it. the problem is ...IF I shoot a G17 for a while and grab a 1911 they point low for me.

I grew up shooting a Glock 17, and my first pistol was a 1911. I'm back and forth between the two guns fairly regularly, so I know what you mean. My 1911 has an arched MSH, though, which I think helps mitigate the difference in the two guns' grips.

In my limited shooting experience with the Glock 19, I did not notice very much, if any, difference between the way I shot it and the way I shot a Glock 17. Coming off months of 1911 shooting, both pointed high for me until I reacquainted myself with the Glock grip. The main attraction for me of the Glock 19 over the 17 is that the 19 is small enough to conceal, where the 17 (for me) really isn't.


-B

[JonInWA]

I have both, and it frankly doesn't seem to make much of a difference to me in actual shooting. Perhaps it would be more perceptable if I shot one right after the other. Prior to this year, I would have stated that the G19 was slightly faster to shoot, because with mine I'd established my fastest set of competitition results (regarding both times and acccuracy), but this year I surpassed that record with my G17 (and with standard {albeit steel} Glock sights).

You might experience a slight bit more flexibility with a G19 for carry, particularly if you carry concealed. Regardless of the Glock chosen, you're going to have a significantly different grip/index compared to a 1911. Practice/training and dryfire makes it irrelevant (but shooting a 1911 and a Glock back-to-back, or both in a competition probably won't yield optimum results with either in the competition).

If you have a range or a friend who has both a G17 and a G19, try both-and then make your decision based on whichever you feel most comfortable with, and index/shoot the best with would be my recommendation.

Best, Jon

[1oldgrunt]

Modern Pirate thanks for the wise-### comments . BAC and Jon get it , sorry you don't.

The 1911 after 35+ years shooting one points quite narurally for me, with the Glock, I have to "break" my wrist downward so to speak. Yes, you still have to align the sites but in the real world nano seconds count. I'm about ready to commit to Glocks 100% but was curious if I went with that platform if grip angles would be problematic between the full size and compact guns. In a 1911 full size, commander, officers the grip angle remains constant.

I won't go into my shooting backround but it is extensive in both combat arms, LE, IPSC and IDPA ....so I have both real world and game experience....I am not an internet keyboard cammando with 3,000 posts, sorry guess you're the expert.

I asked because there are folks here with real experience as well as some trainers who have extensive knowledge....to those folks who answered without the nonsense, my sincerest thank you.

[crusader377]

Why not try the S&W MP. The grip angle and feel is very close to a M1911. I find it a very easy pistol to transition between the two platforms. Also it is an extremely reliable pistol like the glock.

[Business_Casual]

Modern Pirate thanks for the wise-### comments . BAC and Jon get it , sorry you don't.

The 1911 after 35+ years shooting one points quite narurally for me, with the Glock, I have to "break" my wrist downward so to speak. Yes, you still have to align the sites but in the real world nano seconds count. I'm about ready to commit to Glocks 100% but was curious if I went with that platform if grip angles would be problematic between the full size and compact guns. In a 1911 full size, commander, officers the grip angle remains constant.

I won't go into my shooting backround but it is extensive in both combat arms, LE, IPSC and IDPA ....so I have both real world and game experience....I am not an internet keyboard cammando with 3,000 posts, sorry guess you're the expert.

I asked because there are folks here with real experience as well as some trainers who have extensive knowledge....to those folks who answered without the nonsense, my sincerest thank you.

See, now here's where you went off track - you said, and I quote "any relative input is appreciated" close quote. So were you lying and you simply wanted people to post answers that agreed with your preconceived notions? I guess I should both take offense and be awed by your skill and experience; was that the intent?

The truth is, if you spent the next few range sessions focused on one pistol and learing it in detail, all those problems would go away. Regardless of who makes it and which model. Trying a pistol one time for a few rounds is always going to return the result you found.

It's a matter of training and practice, not pistol design. All designs have their flaws, but not nearly as many as the people holding the pistols do. Dedicate a month of dry-fire and range sessions to a pistol before you decide it "points high" for you.

M_P

[1oldgrunt]

Modern Pirate not going to get into a whizzin contest but .....read what you posted, you were being a jerk......

I've put over a half million rounds thru various 1911's....military, LE, IPSC etc

been a military and LE trainer and instructed competiton shooters. I've studied under Col Cooper, Chuck Taylor, JM Plaxco and a few others...I've won or placed in many State matches , regionals, sectionals and been to a FEW IPSC Nationals.

I also shot a Glock in competition for a couple years....

so YES I've put the time in. There is a transition between the two, for me at least

I'm not debating 1911 vs Glock ....rather G17 vs G19 as I have no real time behind a 19.

I wasn't looking for agreement or confirmation.

[Ziptie]

Grunt, I know exactly what you mean, and because of that, the GLOCKs sit and gather dust, part of the 'inactive reserves'. I solved it with a SiG.

Zip

[MarshallDodge]

I have similar issues and I try hard to perform the fundamentals of concentrating on the front sight when shooting any pistol. One thing that I have found with the Glock is that the large flat slide distracts me, while the rounded top of the 1911 helps me re-acquire the front sight.

I don't notice it near as much on my M&P40 and can switch between it and a 1911 pretty easily.

[maximus83]

I like the reliability of a Glock over a 1911 but am hesitant to totally switch to the Glock platform.


You might consider the M&P as well. It's reliable (in the sense that many large agencies are switching to the M&P for service usage), but another interesting thing for your scenario is, I've seen a number of 1911 users (including me) who think that the M&P has a grip angle and points in a way that is closer to a 1911 than any other polymer gun. Worth checking out, anyway.

[moyler]

...Practice/training and dryfire makes it irrelevant...


Best seven words in the thread.

This has been my experience. I enjoy both platforms.

[John_Wayne777]

Folks, remember that we try and maintain a collegial atmosphere around here as a means of facilitating discussion and minimizing arguments.

[Danny Boy]

As much as I've begun to hate publicizing Boresight Solutions for fear of the wait list becoming even longer, Ben did a great grip reduction job on mine to make it point flatter like a 1911.

Just my preference. Best of the Glock and a 1911 in my humble opinion.

Chopped on the back to reduce the lift:

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x51/coltm733/BSS%20Glock/DSC00014-1.jpg

[gringop]

I've been shooting and carrying a G19 for 3 years or more. I typically shoot 800 rounds a month between practice and matches.
I just picked up a G17 in the last 2 months. There is a significant difference in the way that the G17 points compared to the G19. The G17 points higher.

That being said, it took me about 20 minutes of practice to get up to speed with the G17. I would suggest you go ahead and switch to Glocks. The ammo $$$ savings going to 9mm, the higher capacity, lower weight and enhanced reliability will more than make up for the harsher Glock trigger and different grip angle. Be sure to budget for better sights, the factory ones really suck.

Gringop

[m4shooter]

I have all 3 . G17,G19, and a Colt 1911. I know what you mean by pointing differently. When presenting from a holster I dont see much difference between a 19 & 17. But, when just picking 1 up or from a table,etc. The 19 does point a little high. My 1911 just points naturally no matter what. I put a set of big dots on my Glocks. now they seem to point the same. How did a set of sights do this? I am guessing because the dot up front with the v rear. Basicly you put the dot on top of the i. Works for me and is very fast. Here is where I am going to get flamed. I am not as much concerned with accuracy, The G19 is my primary carry piece so it is a close range self defense weapon. I can put all 15 rds. in a 4" group at 15 yrds as fast as I can shoot. I'm not SWAt,Spec Ops, etc. So I dont have to worry about small,tight groups. I am shooting at center mass and can do that every time under stress.

This works for me so I am happy and confident with it. I have found that 3 dot sights dont work for me. A plain rear with gold bead on my 1911 or big dots on my Glocks work.