View Full Version : Larue challenge to ARMs
trunkmonkey
12-17-09, 09:06
I haven't seen this up yet on m4carbine.
Larues challenge to ARMs. it's for real
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=2&f=219&t=182242
FromMyColdDeadHand
12-17-09, 12:07
I think it was talked about in the General forum, IIRC. That series of pics where the guy uses a Dillo bottle opener to break it the lever is pretty funny and worth an ad campaign in itself.
Powder_Burn
12-17-09, 12:47
My free Aimpoint Micro QD Mount arrives today along with all the normal swag. All I had to do was sacrifice my ARMS17/M68 which was quite therapeutic.
Correction: LaRue Sent me a CompM2 mount since it is closest to what I sent in for the trade.
It just gets more and more bizarre. Pretty cool way to get the ARMS stuff off the street though.
This would never work in the training side of the industry. "All you have to do, for a free class, is kill your last instructor..." That's just wrong.
Interesting way to get your point across.
Littlelebowski
12-17-09, 14:13
This would never work in the training side of the industry. "All you have to do, for a free class, is kill your last instructor..." That's just wrong.
Who's offering that?! Where?!
Just called LaRue & asked to verify this offer and I got a "Roger That!:p" offer ends 1/7/2010. :cool:
Just called LaRue & asked to verify this offer and I got a "Roger That!:p" offer ends 1/7/2010. :cool:
Why would you call? Mark LaRue posted it, and signed his name to it for everyone to see. He made follow-up posts to the thread confirming his intent. Sometimes people do the oddest things...
Sparky5019
12-17-09, 18:08
The only mounts I own are Larue so I hope Mark buries A.R.M.S. in a pile of their own browken mounts!!
Quality is perfect and service/guarantee is second to none!!
Sparky
Another drama fest involving Mark LaRue. When you base your product codes off you chief (at the time) competitors codes, what do you expect? You are just asking for a lawsuit. So instead of just fighting the lawsuit like a normal company he creates a drama fest to rile up his fan boys.
And this is different from a chart, or note that says "If you used my competitors #x, then use my #Y."
Why would you call? Mark LaRue posted it, and signed his name to it for everyone to see. He made follow-up posts to the thread confirming his intent. Sometimes people do the oddest things...
I don't believe everything I read on the internet, especially when it encourages me to destroy my property with the promise of replacing it for free! If that is odd then you must be VERY young & naive!
trunkmonkey
12-17-09, 20:31
While that's all good and interesting Fundi, but when it's posted on a couple other sites with Mark making the posting himself, with hundreds of posts and thousands of views I guess you could say the info is good to go.
Besides, I don't pass bum scoop. The chief posted it numb nuts.
I didn't read it on multiple other sites and why would one go to the little indians when one could go to The Chief;)
I don't believe everything I read on the internet, especially when it encourages me to destroy my property with the promise of replacing it for free! If that is odd then you must be VERY young & naive!
Hardly young, and actually personally known by at least two dozen folks on this website, to be one of the most skeptical and cynical mother****ers around.
It's not like Mark LaRue just showed up yesterday posting as LaRue_Tactical on AR15.com. Historically speaking, if you see it posted by that account, it has been factually backed up in actions by the company known as LaRue Tactical.
Maybe you're just a newbie, and have never met Mark LaRue, Mark Fingar or any of the other LT employees. Most of us on staff here have. Many of our posters have met him at SHOT, and conversed with him at length already. We also have met, shot with, or dined with employees of that company. Not to mention buying 100,000's of thousands of dollars of his gear between us.
He posted it, signed his name to it, and has a history of backing that up. Sorry you're new to the party and needed to call. Seems odd to me, and now you can understand why.
IIRC LaRue isn't the only target as ARMS is also going after Magpul. Maybe they should focus on putting out a good product and not be so worried about suing companies that make a better product.
Another drama fest involving Mark LaRue. When you base your product codes off you chief (at the time) competitors codes, what do you expect? You are just asking for a lawsuit. So instead of just fighting the lawsuit like a normal company he creates a drama fest to rile up his fan boys.
And this is different from a chart, or note that says "If you used my competitors #x, then use my #Y."
I put up a long post about this in General Discussion but my thread was deleted?
DocHolliday01
12-18-09, 05:21
IIRC LaRue isn't the only target as ARMS is also going after Magpul. Maybe they should focus on putting out a good product and not be so worried about suing companies that make a better product.
My thoughts exactly. I hope ARMS loses the few customers they still have over this bullshit.
IIRC LaRue isn't the only target as ARMS is also going after Magpul. Maybe they should focus on putting out a good product and not be so worried about suing companies that make a better product.
Suing Magpul is about Patent Infringement, not about trademarks issues like with Mark LaRue.
I'm personally meh on the lawsuits, I am sick of his show boating, he did the same thing with ADM, and AAC. He riles up his fanboys who relentlessly attack the competitors. Something that I can't condone, and my sending habits reflect it.
He posted it, signed his name to it, and has a history of backing that up. Sorry you're new to the party and needed to call. Seems odd to me, and now you can understand why.
Not unusual for accounts to be hacked in one way or another so it pays to take care before attacking something you own :) I'm sure his tech guy would confirm they get regular hack attempts, depending on network topography and how they log into the store front getting access to an internal system can be reasonably easy. There are many tools available which will NOT be picked up by a normal AV program. (Stops posting boring IT crap now before he gets detailed and off on a tangent...)
If someone didn't know this was on many forums then making sure seems like the safe, sane and logical thing to do. Matter of fact I wish more people would fact check some of the crap that's posted on other forums.
Hacking an account like his an posting something like this offer would be a good way to do damage.
Suing Magpul is about Patent Infringement, not about trademarks issues like with Mark LaRue.
I'm personally meh on the lawsuits, I am sick of his show boating, he did the same thing with ADM, and AAC. He riles up his fanboys who relentlessly attack the competitors. Something that I can't condone, and my spending habits reflect it.
+1
I tried to come up with just one $10 word to describe my feelings on LaRue but had to settle for two, bloviate and ostentatious. I can barely spell them so can someone help me use them in a sentence?
Not unusual for accounts to be hacked in one way or another so it pays to take care before attacking something you own :) I'm sure his tech guy would confirm they get regular hack attempts, depending on network topography and how they log into the store front getting access to an internal system can be reasonably easy. There are many tools available which will NOT be picked up by a normal AV program. (Stops posting boring IT crap now before he gets detailed and off on a tangent...)
If someone didn't know this was on many forums then making sure seems like the safe, sane and logical thing to do. Matter of fact I wish more people would fact check some of the crap that's posted on other forums.
Hacking an account like his an posting something like this offer would be a good way to do damage.
Yeah, his account got hacked and he posted again and again, and even in other threads not relating to that claim. He used the same diction, bold type, and bravado as he always does, but it was really Xi Xang Xa from the LuKang province acting as him, and telling people to break ARMS stuff -- with whom he is currently in a legal battle. Yeah, the hacked account buzzers just whirled in the background.
Stop with the tinfoil-Chinese-hackers-behind-every-bush nonsense. :rolleyes:
You don't see anyone calling him up when he is giving away $1,000 uppers with a lottery number draw.
As I said, if you're a newbie to Mark LaRue, then a call would be warranted. I suppose. Seems odd considering how prolific a poster and internet marketeer he's been in the last few years. Think about it, Mark LaRue scours the internet day after day looking for posts related to him, his company and his name. Think he would have missed that? Unlikely.
I don't care who disagrees, it seems odd to call the shop to verify an offer by LaRue_Tactical that has been running for days and days with no "Holy Shit! My account was hacked posts...."
Sparky5019
12-18-09, 09:37
I really don't give a shit if he is making drama over it or not! I LOVE his product and think he is a stand up guy. I also happen to enjoy twisting the knife a little (it makes certain situations in life more tolerable and even enjoyable...ya gotta have a little fun!).
I tend to enjoy the way he handled it...JMHO.
Sparky
Yeah, his account got hacked and he posted again and again, and even in other threads not relating to that claim. He used the same diction, bold type, and bravado as he always does, but it was really Xi Xang Xa from the LuKang province acting as him, and telling people to break ARMS stuff -- with whom he is currently in a legal battle. Yeah, the hacked account buzzers just whirled in the background.
Stop with the tinfoil-Chinese-hackers-behind-every-bush nonsense. :rolleyes:
You don't see anyone calling him up when he is giving away $1,000 uppers with a lottery number draw.
As I said, if you're a newbie to Mark LaRue, then a call would be warranted. I suppose. Seems odd considering how prolific a poster and internet marketeer he's been in the last few years. Think about it, Mark LaRue scours the internet day after day looking for posts related to him, his company and his name. Think he would have missed that? Unlikely.
I don't care who disagrees, it seems odd to call the shop to verify an offer by LaRue_Tactical that has been running for days and days with no "Holy Shit! My account was hacked posts...."
shivan, you are simply wrong and have arrogantly backed yourself into a corner and are too proud to backdown and apologize. The rest of us do not "scour" the internet to get confirmation on things (or at all for that matter) when we can call the source like "NORMAL BUSINESS" is conducted, its not "odd" its NORMAL & prudent.
I really don't give a shit if he is making drama over it or not! I LOVE his product and think he is a stand up guy. I also happen to enjoy twisting the knife a little (it makes certain situations in life more tolerable and even enjoyable...ya gotta have a little fun!).
I tend to enjoy the way he handled it...JMHO.
Sparky
Me too. I like guys willing to not allow the whitecollar rules to dictate how they play the game. You gotta say that LaRue makes great products and has got some serious SACK on the guy:p It would make some good Reality TV in that guys life I'll bet:p
I have people in parking lots stop me and ask if they can photograph my "especially our snipers" bumper sticker all the time! I love LaRue's humor!
Okay gentleman I think we all agree this is legitimate so let's move on. If not I'll be forced to lock the thread.
I put up a long post about this in General Discussion but my thread was deleted?
Boganz, I don't find any record of you creating a thread on this subject so it certainly wasn't deleted or moved.
Okay gentleman I think we all agree this is legitimate so let's move on. If not I'll be forced to lock the thread.
Yep, I agree. The legitimacy of the offer is not in question -- it wever was...
Mark LaRue uses AR15.com as his primary means of communication with his customers, and the general public. If it's posted using the LaRue_Tactical account, history has shown, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that it is backed by Mark LaRue since he is the one posting and running the show.
I also agree that we need to get back on topic. Thanks for keeping us straight!
I wish everyone a VERY MERRY CHRISTMAS & hope everyone gets some LaRue in there stockings:p
Sparky5019
12-21-09, 07:19
Absolutely...I have a 9" handguard arriving this morning!!:D:D:D
Merry Christmas!
Sparky
Singlestack Wonder
12-26-09, 20:41
From Michael Bane's blog:
==============================================================================================================
Color Me Puzzled...
...as to why Richard Swan, CEO of Atlantic Research Marketing System and his wife and VP, Sharon, would donate $500 each to the campaign of rabidly antigun MA Senate candidate Martha Croakly instead of pro-gun Republican Scott Brown? A.R.M.S. has been around a long time and they make a superb line of products for black rifles — not exactly beloved in Massachusetts.
==============================================================================================================
Swan is clueless........
CarlosDJackal
12-26-09, 21:54
Hmmm. I may have to take advantage of this offer. I have an ARMS offset mount that I would love to "exhcange" for a Larue mount. The damned thing just will not stay torqued down. The gooseneck keeps loosening up with use even with loctite. :)
and they make a superb line of products for black rifles
Be neat to see what metrics define "superb" in that guy's mind. Maybe in Bizarro world...
http://img693.imageshack.us/img693/7848/bizarro.jpg (http://img693.imageshack.us/i/bizarro.jpg/)
From Michael Bane's blog:
Color Me Puzzled...as to why Richard Swan, CEO of Atlantic Research Marketing System and his wife and VP, Sharon, would donate $500 each to the campaign of rabidly antigun MA Senate candidate Martha Croakly instead of pro-gun Republican Scott Brown? A.R.M.S. has been around a long time and they make a superb line of products for black rifles — not exactly beloved in Massachusetts.
Be neat to see what metrics define "superb" in that guy's mind. Maybe in Bizarro world...
"Sponsorhip" and "Advertising" are the metrics for many others. Jus' saying.
Bane's show has a little something for everyone, but a definite lean toward the masses and gun pop-culture. ARMS shortcomings would indeed be "superb" for them.
There is a thread going on over at THR.org about ARMS donating to the anti gun politicos. Tonight this post appeared from a new account by the name of "factual"
This type of posting, by anyone easily misled to irrational name calling, is slander and character assassination, since it based on not having one bit of first hand knowledge of what the facts are. What makes it, and other contrived postings dangerous, the source. The self serving misinformation and multiple twisting of facts, by a TX company on trial in a Federal court, who think they are wise to try the case on the Internet, they and their surrogates will discover was a bad idea when they enter a real trial.
Fact, A.R.M.S. has been a strong gun rights advocate for 30 years, and continues to donate large amounts of moneys and time to protect those rights. Some times, having a voice in the opposition’s camp requires an entrance donation. An Attorney General needs to hear our side of the story, an Attorney General enforces the law does not make it. So far, MA is keeping, not banning the black rifles, thanks to people like the Swans and others who go the extra mile, by trying to reason against anti gun politicians. When the case is over, and the facts are known, there will be a lot of people who will wish they let the law and court system do its job, before putting their foot in their mouth, by attacking some of the best friends they ever will have! Attacking the MA AG, who has been willing to listen, vs her terrible predecessor, doesn't help matters here either, but the guy in TX doesn't care, he doesn't live here.
Falsehoods about the law suit abound, but since the defendant from TX is the only one trying to try the case on the Internet, it is obvious where the falsehoods emanate from.
Just to provide more facts, A.R.M.S., has had office representation in Israel for approx. twenty years, been a large supplier and confidant to the I.D.F. for those many years.
Make your chat room a responsible place for facts, not a bill board for falsehoods from a TX man already on trial for defamation of character and slander, on top of the patent and trademark violations.
ATOMD needs to grow up.
If you look at the donations, the Swans donated to Jones,and Mcdonald who are strong gun rights people.
http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=493791
I laughed, I cried, I responded. :P
Who else thinks this person works for, or is Dick Swan.
Actually if you look up the donor lists, Dick (or Richard) Swan has donated much more to Republicans then he has to Democrats. I went to Open Secrets to look it up myself after I saw that post to confirm it.
And factual is right, this is a typical LaRue tactic he fights lawsuits in the court of public opinion. The fact is that ARMs has the trademark of Throw Lever when it comes to firearms, and #17 when it comes to optic mounts. LaRue chose to model their part numbers after the ARMs part numbers, and they are getting slapped for it.
So let me get this right. He is suing them over the use of the #17? How can you trademark a number? Can somebody with some consumer law info fill me in?
CarlosDJackal
12-28-09, 08:36
So let me get this right. He is suing them over the use of the #17? How can you trademark a number? Can somebody with some consumer law info fill me in?
I was wondering the same thing. If I remember it correctly, Intel tried the same thing with their 386 and 486 processor. I think they sued AMZ for using the same numbers for comparable chips and lost out because the judge decreed that you would not patent numbers. This is why Intel started giving chips names.
Sounds kinda frivolous and sour-grapes based to me. I can understand if Larue had outright stolen their design.
I've never met or talked to mark Larue. I understand from those who have that he's a bit of a flake. But Larue tactical makes some of the best accessories available AND they stand behind their product 100%. Plus they never fail to take the opportunity to thank their customers and end-users.
Actually if you look up the donor lists, Dick (or Richard) Swan has donated much more to Republicans then he has to Democrats. I went to Open Secrets to look it up myself after I saw that post to confirm it.
That's kind of like saying "well this guy here has been in hundreds of banks before and only robbed one". So what? Why is he contributing to a rabidly anti-gun candidate for US Senate?
And factual is right, this is a typical LaRue tactic he fights lawsuits in the court of public opinion. The fact is that ARMs has the trademark of Throw Lever when it comes to firearms, and #17 when it comes to optic mounts. LaRue chose to model their part numbers after the ARMs part numbers, and they are getting slapped for it.
Why should he not fight it in the court of public opinion? It's probably good for his business. I'm hardly a Mark Larue fanboy, but from what I've seen about Swan's lawsuits, I'd agree with IG's sentiment that "Maybe they should focus on putting out a good product and not be so worried about suing companies that make a better product."
That's kind of like saying "well this guy here has been in hundreds of banks before and only robbed one". So what? Why is he contributing to a rabidly anti-gun candidate for US Senate?
To get some traction to speak with her. She is much more likely to listen to someone who donated to her campaign then some random yob. I'm not saying that Factual may not be a troll account, or astroturf, but what he says does make sense, and happens commonly.
Why should he not fight it in the court of public opinion? It's probably good for his business. I'm hardly a Mark Larue fanboy, but from what I've seen about Swan's lawsuits, I'd agree with IG's sentiment that "Maybe they should focus on putting out a good product and not be so worried about suing companies that make a better product."
Mark LaRue could have easily changed his part numbers and avoided the lawsuit. Few trademark lawsuits aren't preceded first by cease and desist letters.
And no the court of public opinion is not where lawsuits are fought, because you are easily get slapped down. Look at the Apple v. Psystar lots of people supported Psystar, but Psystar got slapped with an injunction that basically put them out of business.
CarlosDJackal,
The trademark lawsuit you are thinking about was over the MMX trademark. And AMD settled. You are confusing the trademark lawsuit with the Micro Code lawsuits, which involved Patent infringement. And were messy, some Intel won, some AMD won. And eventually they called a truce and did cross licensing.
To get some traction to speak with her. She is much more likely to listen to someone who donated to her campaign then some random yob. I'm not saying that Factual may not be a troll account, or astroturf, but what he says does make sense, and happens commonly.
Mmm hmmm. If he thinks that by giving this woman a grand that he can convince her to take up the cause of freedom instead of statism, he's dumber than I thought.
Mark LaRue could have easily changed his part numbers and avoided the lawsuit. Few trademark lawsuits aren't preceded first by cease and desist letters.
From what I've seen, Swan has a trademark on "#17"; and the closest I've seen to that in LT's P/N scheme is "LT-170". Perhaps it's just me, but I would have told the guy to sod off as well. It's a stupid lawsuit. And once again, perhaps Swan should expend his energy in the direction of making his shit better.
And no the court of public opinion is not where lawsuits are fought, because you are easily get slapped down. Look at the Apple v. Psystar lots of people supported Psystar, but Psystar got slapped with an injunction that basically put them out of business.
I never made the claim that fighting in the court of public opinion was going to help them win the actual lawsuit. Apple v Psystar is far from the same.
CarlosDJackal,
The trademark lawsuit you are thinking about was over the MMX trademark. And AMD settled. You are confusing the trademark lawsuit with the Micro Code lawsuits, which involved Patent infringement. And were messy, some Intel won, some AMD won. And eventually they called a truce and did cross licensing.
No, he is correct. There was a case (1991, IIRC) where Intel sued AMD for using the number "386" and lost.
There is a thread going on over at THR.org about ARMS donating to the anti gun politicos. Tonight this post appeared from a new account by the name of "factual"
http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=493791
I laughed, I cried, I responded. :P
Who else thinks this person works for, or is Dick Swan.
Apparently the THR Moderator does, especially since factual's e-mail address is sswan****.....
Funny stuff.
Mmm hmmm. If he thinks that by giving this woman a grand that he can convince her to take up the cause of freedom instead of statism, he's dumber than I thought.
No but he may be able to convince to take a less extreme path. Many companies do this. They give most of their money to the candidate that will give them the best results, but give a smaller amount to the other to hedge their bets so they have some access if they win.
I never made the claim that fighting in the court of public opinion was going to help them win the actual lawsuit. Apple v Psystar is far from the same.
No I used Apple v Psystar as an extreme example. But this is the usual LaRue grandstanding, he slings muds against all this opponents. Instead of just fighting the lawsuit (or otherwise make product) he goes as far as he can without crossing the slander/libel line. And he's done this more then once. AAC, ADM, et al. Now ARMS is his current target.
No, he is correct. There was a case (1991, IIRC) where Intel sued AMD for using the number "386" and lost.
I don't find a record of that, not even in AMD's own Intel litigation site. But it seems like a bad ruling. Numbers have been upheld as trademark able within a given industry sector. For example Boeing holds trademarks for all the 7X7.
Apparently the THR Moderator does, especially since factual's e-mail address is sswan****.....
Funny stuff.
Haha That was great. You know I strongly disagree with what is going on at THR right now, but I have to give some of the Mods credit in cases like this.
William B.
01-18-10, 22:31
Has anybody who sent their ARMS mount off to LaRue Tactical for replacement received their replacement yet? How long should I expect to wait?
Mine was a little over 2 weeks, I just got it at the end of last week. I would imagine they were pretty backed up, and with shot show it makes things even crazier.
usaffarmer
01-18-10, 23:32
I sent mine in acouple days before chirstmas and with in 10 day had a box from them. Made a nice birthday for myself.
<Colt LE6920> When did you send yours in to them?
William B.
01-19-10, 09:56
I sent mine in acouple days before chirstmas and with in 10 day had a box from them. Made a nice birthday for myself.
<Colt LE6920> When did you send yours in to them?
I got a tracking code from the PO. LaRue got my mounts on Jan 4th.
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