AFG users, post feedback here! [Archive]

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DrDrake

12-17-09, 12:03

Alright Fellas. I just received confrimation that all sample AFG's were shipped yesterday. Most of you should receive them by Friday with some of the local guys taking delivery today. PO box address will arrive Sat or Mon.

Per the instructions in the original thread http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=42414 please let us know what you think of the AFG in this thread. Pics would be great. I don't expect guys to instantly dump info. Post in here that you have received the package and give yourself a chance to make it to the range and try it out. If you can't make it to the range try some dry drills in your man space. All comments are welcome good, bad or ugly. Thanks guys.

http://i839.photobucket.com/albums/zz314/Magpul_Industries/AFG_9.jpg

stage2

12-17-09, 12:42

For any one that might not like theirs PM me for contact info, I'll take it off your hands! :D

SIMPLYDYNAMIC

12-18-09, 11:26

http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm118/magpuldynamics08/FUNNY%20PICS/DietCoke.jpg
WHOS THE KEY GRIP?!..... The AFG is! Buts that only if you understand the theory behind it!

Now… We know there is about to be some serious feedback on this thing, But remember if you are throwing this on your gun just because of the way it looks then
Your going down the wrong path! If you are not used to shooting this way, please understand that This may not be for you. However Please take in consideration the blood, sweat, and tears
that has been put into this Theory Based Product and that if you truly let it manipulate your body mechanics to the natural ergonomics that your body wants that gives you that unfair advantage then you have justified this theory in your own mind and then we all win!

What’s the difference between a Theory based product from our other products? Well… take the PMAG For example: The PMAG has been revolutionary in the fact that it has increased weapons performance, reliability And the obvious durability! The PMAG increase the efficiency and effectiveness of the Weapon system. Now if you have seen some of our other theory based products like the MS2 Sling, ASAP rear end Plate, and the Battery Assist Device (BAD) their mission is not to increase the performance of the weapon but to increase the performance of the Operator. They are designed to push your abilities to run that gun harder, faster, more accurate, and to work with what your baody does naturally under critical stress, and to work in 98% of the situations and senarios you may find yourself in.

Think about the mechanics behind shooting… understand the “why” of what we do,… not just the “How “ and the “What” Once you can grasp that you will fully understand the concept of the Magpul Angled Fore grip.

Here is a reminder of the ERONOMICS in action working with body mechanics
http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm118/magpuldynamics08/FUNNY%20PICS/Slide1.jpg

http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm118/magpuldynamics08/FUNNY%20PICS/Slide2.jpg

And remind all your friends to:
http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm118/magpuldynamics08/FUNNY%20PICS/280.png

Mega

12-18-09, 11:33

You guys are killing the rest of us who are waiting for the AFG to become available to us 'normal shooters'.
Tagging this thread so I can feel the love (or hate) through you lucky folks with product in-hand. :p

d90king

12-18-09, 11:44

Tagged for T&E thoughts and photos.

Titleist

12-18-09, 11:48

Smart shit and photos go here!

Thomas M-4

12-18-09, 11:55

Mine just showed up on the front porch:D

I have kac ras carbine length rail with a vltor off set light mount holding a SF 6p. I had to move the mount to the top rail there was not enough clearance for the wing nuts to tighten up.
No problem easy fix you could file a notch for clearance but I just moved the mount. It fits nicely with kac rail covers it also includes a flat panel if you do not like the finger bump.
First impression me likes alot I can use my support hand to pull the rifle in firmly into my shoulder pocket with complete comfort.

I will do a better post and post pics. I am going to be pretty busy today and will try to get to the range this weekend if it will ever stop raining.

RetreatHell

12-18-09, 12:37

Okay, now the pic of the "Full Retard" tennis-racket grip on the standard vert grip is just straight up funny!!:D

If you received one of these today in the mail and don't actually use it at the range by 2359 on Sunday night... you officially suck.;)

I have now tagged this bitch like a Tijuana whore!

Semper Fi,

-Paul

tylerw02

12-18-09, 14:01

Tagged

teufeldog

12-18-09, 15:05

A bit of forum instruction for all of you who submit a reply just to "tag" the thread for future notification. You don't need to do this. Simply navigate to the top of the thread, click the "Thread Tools" link, and select "Subscribe to this Thread". That is all. :cool:

bnanaphone

12-18-09, 15:45

This thread just stopped me from going full retard, thank you.

PRGGodfather

12-18-09, 16:53

Mine just arrived at the PD today. I will run it on a Colt 16" Carbine with DD Omega 7.0 -- AAR to follow within two weeks...

bradb55

12-18-09, 17:50

It was waiting for me on the pouch. :D

If haven't mounted the AFG on a weapon yet, but first thought was it was a typical well crafted magpul product.

When I open the package I notice a Insert. It was the "Straight Insert". I tryed the "Finger Shelf insert" as it was the one the came installed. I was not feeling it. My sauage fingers felt cramped. So I followed the paper work and swapped it out for the "Straight Insert". That was more up my ally. I like the thought of the finger shelf as it helps support my grip on the AFG but its just not for my fingers.

Thats all I have so far. More to come soon...................

Thanks again to Magpul for the chance to do the T&E.

Brad:)

militarymoron

12-18-09, 19:54

got mine, installed it, like it. i usually dislike finger shelves/bumps as they don't coincide with my fingers, but with the AFG, it's a good fit for me. i tried the straight shelf insert, but found that the finger shelf kept my hand in position better.
wrist angle feels comfortable and natural. i look forward to shooting with it. thanks magpul.

edited to add pics -
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v483/militarymoron/afg1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v483/militarymoron/afg2.jpg

d90king

12-18-09, 19:56

AFG arrived today, thank you Magpul. I installed it on my MRP, it was a simple install, and has very solid lock up. I installed it one slot back from the end of the rail. It does not allow an installation that is flush with the end of the rail due to placement of set screw. I will probably reinstall it where it sits just past the end of the rail so I can get just a bit more extension.

It is very well made as you would expect from MP and as stated locks solid to the rail. It comes with two finger stops and I will try it both ways to see what is most comfortable. It provides a very solid grip on your rifle and I couldn't distinguish much of a weight difference from the FUG I run. The grip provides a great angle when the rifle is at extension, but I haven't had a chance to do much with it from the ready...

I will do reports at 100, 500 and 1000 rounds which will give me adequate time to feel the difference in shooting with it vs the FUG.

Here are a few pics installed.
http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t5/d90king/DSCN1241.jpg
http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t5/d90king/DSCN1240.jpg
http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t5/d90king/DSCN1239.jpg
http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t5/d90king/DSCN1238.jpg
http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t5/d90king/DSCN1237.jpg
http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t5/d90king/DSCN1236.jpg

DARK-KNIGHT

12-18-09, 20:05

Mine was also found waiting patiently on the porch when I woke up (Midnights). I mounted it on my 10.5 sbr with a 9" DD rail. First off, it was very easy to mount and solid once attached. While I only got to play with it for a little while before work, it seemed like a very natural grip and was comfortable on the wrist. I do think I will prefer the flat attachment and will be swapping that out tomorrow to see how it feels. Thanks Magpul, and I hope to be able to shoot with it this week to provide more feedback.

Sierrahotel83

12-18-09, 21:39

d90king

12-18-09, 21:53

I would just like to know how feasable it would be to hand it over the end of the rails, trying to extend grip on the rifle... also I guess how far over the end of the rails it can be if feasable as well?

I would think an 1"+ maybe more depending on where the set screw falls on the rail. It will be plenty sturdy extended past the rail and your hand should have plenty of room...

Sierrahotel83

12-18-09, 22:24

Thanx that is all I need to know... I think I will get one and a KAC RAS in Jan.

LOKNLOD

12-18-09, 22:28

I received mine today as well, and after getting the kiddoes to sleep have had the chance to do a brief dry run. Here are some very preliminary thoughts...

First, I tried to slip it on my BCM midlength with Larue 12.0. This is the carbine I ran at the OKC MD class in Sept. and I already had it set up for the "half retard" grip with a stubby TD grip. Slight SNAFU right out of the gate... due to the shorter height of the 6 o'clock rail on the Larue, and the raised sides at the front of the AFG, the grip slides on very tightly. It will not slide past an XTM panel, VTAC light mount, or even a ladder panel. Now, with those removed, it does slide past, so that's only a minor inconvenience. However, the AFG sits so close to the 3 and 9 o'clock rails you can't reinstall anything on the rail directly above the front end of the AFG. A couple minutes with a file, dremel, or some sandpaper, and I think I'd be chopping tall cotton. I opted not to dick with it for now, since my other AR has a DD rail and I was eager to get a feel for it. If I end up with more of these, I've got no problem modding one to work with the LT rail.

On to my SBR, a 6933 with DD 9.5 FSP rail. On the DD rail, it fits no problemo and slides right under my XTMs and VTAC light mount, and replaces a TD grip that was chopped into a minimal handstop (about half the height of a stubby). I have not had this SBR long and am still playing with light placement...the AFG has either complicated this, or added new options, depending on how you look at it. Either way it will take some shooting time to figure out the best light setup for me.

Subjectively, it feels right at home on the longer rail where I can get more extension with my arm. Perhaps a little less so on the shorty, but I think the light issues are distracting me on that one. It's stupid to draw too many conclusions about weapon handling while standing in my gun room a.k.a. closet, so take that for what it's worth (about as much as your GM stock).

More objectively, the AFG is lightweight and fits snugly on both rails I tried it on. Install is easy, and swapping out the finger nubbin inserts is a piece of cake. (I like the nubbin in what I'd call the "down" position, thus far). I'm a little bummed I'm going to have to do some fitting to get everything where I want it on the Larue rail, but that's not the end of the world.

I will follow up with pics when I have better lighting, and should get a chance to do some shooting over the holiday break. I'm looking forward to it :cool:

bradb55

12-18-09, 23:04

O.k. I finally got a chance to mount this on my new midlength upper. It has standard handguards. I think most of everybody will be doing quad rail reports, so I thought I'd do a standard handguard one.

So after digging around in my parts bin, I came across a HG rail from a old gun project. I mounted it to the handguard and reinstalled guard. Its a BCM so the HG fits real tight.

The AFG slid right on. After trying different placements I found it best (for me) placement was with the front of the AFG just under the front sling attachment. Its a very nice fit. Zero slop in the HG or the AFG to the rail.

I hope to get some range time in this weekend and really get to test it out. I also can tell I'll need a remote switch for my light so its still usable when transitioning from right to left side.

Here are some pics. Sorry for the crappy pics (had to use the camera on the cell)

http://i782.photobucket.com/albums/yy110/bradb55/01.jpg
http://i782.photobucket.com/albums/yy110/bradb55/02.jpg
http://i782.photobucket.com/albums/yy110/bradb55/04.jpg
http://i782.photobucket.com/albums/yy110/bradb55/05.jpg
http://i782.photobucket.com/albums/yy110/bradb55/06.jpg
http://i782.photobucket.com/albums/yy110/bradb55/07.jpg

Sorry again for the shitty pics

Brad

steeltoe

12-19-09, 00:14

Thanks for the pics d90king!

Ak44

12-19-09, 02:39

I got a AFG with a duck bill/lip in the handle. My initial thoughts, pretty cool. It definitely makes it more comfortable griping the rifle. A few things I've been thinking about...could it be possible to add rubber to the handle area? I know you guys are coming out with the MOE pistol grip that is made of rubber, maybe making the bottom rubberized? And possibly a QD socket at the back of the handle (portion facing the lower receiver/magwell?

d90king

12-19-09, 07:29

Thanks for the pics d90king!

No problem. Its the least I could do since MP was nice enough to give me a sneak peek for free.

bradb55

12-19-09, 08:28

And possibly a QD socket at the back of the handle (portion facing the lower receiver/magwell?

Thats not a bad idea! Since I had just finished this middy, I'm still waiting on my sling and front sling adapter.

But a QD socket would be a nice idea

tiger seven

12-19-09, 08:52

Got mine yesterday as well. I can't make it to the range this weekend (cold rain...) but after doing some dry-fire drills last night and practicing clearing my apartment :p I will share what I've found. The pics are blurry because I am both photographer and model.

First off, this is what my SBR looked like Friday morning.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y82/zulu15/SBR_wKAC.jpg

I recently switched to the KAC handstop, and I like it a lot. On a 7-inch rail there isn't much room for stuff, so I like that the handstop is small, lightweight and unobtrusive. Stubbier than even the stubbiest of stubby grips, it provides a positive index point for hand placement.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y82/zulu15/Grip_wKAC.jpg

So I tried the AFG in what I would call the "normal" position on a 7-inch rail.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y82/zulu15/AFG_normal.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y82/zulu15/Grip_normal.jpg

I like the way the AFG fits my hand, but I found it to be too far back for me. Somewhat uncomfortable. And I'm a little guy (5' 8") so I don't have gibbon arms either. So, since it only requires one rail slot for the crossbolt I decided I'd try moving it as far forward as possible. My only concern would be that it might be too loose if mounted this way. Note that you can only do this if you've removed the sling swivel, but I assume most people do that nowadays.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y82/zulu15/AFG_forwardedit.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y82/zulu15/Grip_forward.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y82/zulu15/Grip_forwardcloseup.jpg

Much better! It mounts rock-solid to the rail and it's much more comfortable. My hand fits it perfectly and my thumb is in a very natural position to both control the weapon and activate the light. I like the little A2-style finger groove as it provides a reference point for my fingers. My middle finger rests on the groove, index finger pointed forward slightly. Very comfortable, very natural feeling.

I will post more once I've had a chance to shoot with it mounted. Thanks again to Magpul!

Derek

JSGlock34

12-19-09, 09:32

Received my Magpul AFG yesterday. These are first impressions, as I need to put some rounds down range and use the AFG in a competition or two before I make any real conclusions.

As usual, the AFG is a quality product. Unsurprisingly, the texture and material remind me of the MIAD grip. Others have mentioned the design choice to use two hex screws and a slotted screw; I agree that it would make more sense to make all three the same type.

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x131/JSGlock34/AFD1.jpg

It weighs about two and a half ounces, and in practical terms since it replaces a few rail covers we're really only talking an additional ounce or two to add one to the rifle. It is a few ounces lighter than my LaRue FUG, and it certainly lighter than the VFGs pictured here.

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x131/JSGlock34/AFD4.jpg

I first tried it on my LMT SBR. The SBR is light and handy to begin with, and the AFG felt right at home. However, I had been running a Surefire X300 on one of the side rails, and I use the standard switch for activation. The way the AFG wraps around the side rails required the movement of the X300, and I'll need to experiment to find an optimal position for my light. The grip was natural feeling; 'pointability' was good. I run my VFG fairly far forward however, and my impression is that I could get my support hand slightly further forward and higher up on the gun with the stubby VFG. I've been running the VFG on this rifle for years though, so any change is going to take time to get used to.

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x131/JSGlock34/AFD5.jpg

Close up on the LaRue rail.

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x131/JSGlock34/AFD6.jpg

I then tried the AFG on my Noveske Recon. The Recon is a tack driver but a bit of a beast, weighing almost two pounds more than the SBR, much of it towards the front due to the weight of the stainless barrel and the SWS rail. The weight difference is particularly noticeable when switching from one to the other. I typically don't run a VFG on this rifle as I already find it front heavy.

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x131/JSGlock34/AFD7.jpg

On the Recon, the AFG was a welcome addition. It added little weight, but I felt my control and ability to point the muzzle was improved. My initial impression is that the longer rail of the Recon compared to the SBR allowed me to run the AFG further forward, and the positioning felt much more natural. I'm not sure if others will get a similar feel, but I think the AFG is going to work best on rifles with longer tubes or rail systems that allow you to extend your arms.

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x131/JSGlock34/AFD8.jpg

Again, these are initial impressions, and until I run the rifle with the AFG at a class or competition, this is like commenting on a car's handling after sitting in one in the showroom. I'll be keeping the AFG on the Recon for the time being though. I think it is a light weight, low cost option for those who are looking for forward grip functionality. I'm often looking for ways to shave weight from builds too, and the light weight of the AFG is very appealing.

Thanks to Magpul for giving me a chance to try out this new product.

Range Update: Finally got a chance to shoot this on the range with some friends. The AFG does help provide control and a comfortable, firm grip. However, during speed reloads we found it more difficult to quickly reassume our shooting grip, with much fumbling about to get back into position. Those with smoother tubes or VFGs came back to their natural support hand position much faster. This is likely a training issue and added time and familiarity with the AFG may address that.

militarymoron

12-19-09, 16:34

got mine, installed it, like the way it feels so far. i usually dislike finger shelves/bumps as they don't match up with my fingers, but with the AFG, it's a good fit for me. i tried the straight shelf insert, but found that the finger shelf kept my hand in position better.
initial impressions - wrist angle feels comfortable and natural. i look forward to shooting with it. thanks magpul.
other notes - the width at the front can prevent side rail covers from being used in conjunction with the AFG. i'd like to see a narrower version that isn't much wider than a rail cover, so that there's more clearance for side covers and flashlight mounts. i don't always have the option of mounting the light on the top rail, especially if there's a front sight mounted there, and i want the light mounted as far forward as possible.
IMHO, the AFG will work best with handguards longer than midlength if accessories are used with it.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v483/militarymoron/afg1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v483/militarymoron/afg2.jpg

RogerinTPA

12-19-09, 18:29

I mounted the AFG on my LMT MRP yesterday. It looks well constructed. As I did some dry fire, I noticed I didn't care for the finger shelf, since it felt awkward based on my individual shooting style. I went to the range and put 8 mags down range. I noticed the top of my left social finger was getting a little irritated after about 4 mags. After putting on gloves, it was a non issue. I'll switch to the smooth insert tomorrow and head back to the range.

I did notice that without gloves, my hand would slowly slip down as I applied rearward pressure during shooting. After using a VFG for a few years, using the "thumb break" grip, I've become accustomed to using it as leverage to pull the weapon into my shoulder, so maybe an increased angle of the forward section of maybe another 5 to 8 degrees, would allow a little more leverage. Since a design change like this will ruin the aesthetics of the original design, maybe you could designate it as AFG Mod 2, and the original AFG Mod 1. Maybe a Mod 3 with even a greater angle of 10-12 degrees more, over the original design, in order to please the majority of the shooters. Maybe a modular front half, to allow the shooter to change the grip angle, similar to the MIAD, being modular and interchangeable, so you won't have to have a Mod 2 &3 (Just thinking out loud).

It will take me a few range sessions to adjust to a new hand position, but nothing that can't be overcome. I'll put another 8 mags down range without the "finger shelf", and report back tomorrow afternoon.

Sierrahotel83

12-19-09, 19:02

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y82/zulu15/AFG_forwardedit.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y82/zulu15/Grip_forward.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y82/zulu15/Grip_forwardcloseup.jpg

Much better! It mounts rock-solid to the rail and it's much more comfortable. My hand fits it perfectly and my thumb is in a very natural position to both control the weapon and activate the light. I like the little A2-style finger groove as it provides a reference point for my fingers. My middle finger rests on the groove, index finger pointed forward slightly. Very comfortable, very natural feeling.

I will post more once I've had a chance to shoot with it mounted. Thanks again to Magpul!

Derek

This is exactly what I wanted to see I would to get one now.

Deltapaul

12-19-09, 21:06

Upon initial inspection I found the product to be of the same quality that i have come to expect from Magpul. It was easy to mount on my Troy MRF rail. I liked the comfort of the grip, but think it will take some getting used to, as I am used to having a modified grip on my vert grip. I did like gripping it with my index finger in front of it and have the center grip behind my ring finger. I have not been able to get out to the range with it yet unfortunately due to some crappy weather. Im looking forward to trying it out.

Titleist

12-20-09, 10:59

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2765/4198294213_e5102eca68_b.jpg

Let me preface this review by first establishing that anything to do with how your body interfaces with a weapon system will not be a review that’s binary in nature. There is no universal ‘this works’ or ‘this does not work’ as empirical facts on these types of products. What feels good to one person feels bad to another.

There’s been a rapid transition from vertical grips being used in the broom-handle sense, i.e hands fully around the column, and thus providing very little stability over the center axis of the rifle. So as the hand moves higher up along the line of the bore (in terms of grip) we’ve found that we need less tall of vertical grips to accomplish that need. A further variation on that is the idea of a hand-stop, which whittles away any unnecessary design to provide only a reference point for the hand to exert rearward pressure on.

The hand-stop concept is fantastic if you run a high tang grip. For me as a shooter I run my reaction side hand (or primary if working transitions) high, to the point where my knuckles are on top of the rail. The one issue that has been raised is the supination to the shooter’s wrist, or the over-extension caused by a hard 90-degree cant on the grip; the AFG works to solve this by using an angled gripping surface for the shooter.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2588/4199045812_abb895d3cf_b.jpg
Magpul AFG on Knights 11.5" SBR (Note angle of the wrist in relation to the AFG)

This review was compiled from the experiences of 3 shooters, myself, and two other experienced AR shooters who spent about 100+ rounds on each of my guns (11.5 Costa-style SBR, which is fitting for this test, and my KAC SR-15). Obviously the build quality is fantastic, it’s an affordably made, and well thought out product in terms of execution. The grip comes with two finger groove inserts, one in the A2 style nub, and one that’s smooth. I found for my hands the A2 groove interfered with my smaller hands, and I had to switch out to the flat profile insert (swappable within 1-2 minutes with only removing two screws to separate the AFG in half). The AFG mounts to the rail using a flat head screw and nut, to lock it in to the rail. The AFG takes up approximately the entire length of a standard 7” carbine rail. However you can position it further forward on the rail depending on what feels best for the shooter.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2689/4198293293_f2ae221a95_b.jpg
Knights Armament SR-15

So how does it feel? Well…I’d say it’s a mixed bag. My KAC SBR uses a KAC hand-stop, and the longer SR-15 uses a non-QD Tango Down Stubby vertical grip. Each gun has it’s own unique setup as I run two completely different light/laser rigs on each. So lets start with the SR-15 first. On the Knights SR-15 the combination of Surefire Scout, AN/PEQ-15, and Magpul AFG did not feel good for me at all. The previous setup (and keep in mind this is a combination of interactions on different parts) which used the TD Stubby allowed me to slightly extend my left thumb forward to activate the light, and when using the PEQ (pressure pad is directly under the PEQ-15, placed in between the left and top rail) all I have to do is a slight wrist rotation to hit the pressure switch. When the AFG is in place it’s a much more pronounced move to hit the light. And with the PEQ-15 instead of rotating my hand back a few degrees to allow my thumb access to the pad I now have to extend my whole hand out since it’s already canted. Simply put it’s comfortable when shooting, but it’s uncomfortable when trying to work with the light and laser. The AFG also interferes with rail-mounted accessories like Larue mounts. The AFG cannot slide next to them without the user removing part of the AFG with a Dremel. This isn’t a big issue and is user-solvable quickly, but it’s still an issue worth pointing out. Since the review I’ve switched back to the Stubby, and I’ll get back to that in my conclusions.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2531/4198293847_4d82a2e85f_b.jpg
Magpul AFG used in combination light and laser (Surefire Scout, and Insight Technology AN/PEQ-15)

On the SBR the results were notably better. Because I run my Surefire at the 1 o’clock position this allowed me to better high grip on the AFG, and the results were comfortable, though not perfect. The 11.5” SBR also provides an interesting test bed. As my rifle is very similar to Chris Costa’s (I run a different light setup however) so it’s a situation where my rifle matches up very closely to those in the marketing material. So taking that in to account the biggest differences become the difference in body mechanics between the two shooters.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2642/4199046286_67a9d6411b_b.jpg
Magpul AFG on Knights 11.5" SBR

To summarize how the AFG feels, and all the shooters independently confirmed this after our demo (we all came to the same results separately) is that the AFG can be equated to a slippage in physical purchase (grip, not money). I equate it to sitting on your back, feet against the wall, as you push out with your feet you have a solid action/re-action to what you’re pushing against. The AFG feels more like pushing against an angled surface, in that the force is somewhat translated but the force also wants to go up and out. So while it accomplishes the job of pulling back it feels less positive in terms grip. The tango down grip provides a solid 90-degree point of reference for my hands and the hands of the shooters who demoed the AFG (and I can keep an extra 123A battery in the stubby). The same can be said of the KAC hand-stop. I will admit I like the AFG just a tiny bit more over the KAC hand-stop, which is why I’ll continue to use the AFG going forward. However I’ve found that the AFG for me at least was not the right choice for my longer SR-15. I understand the mentality behind the AFG, and I wouldn’t go so far as to say it’s a solution searching for a problem. As I said earlier this is not going to be a binary review, this is however going to be a binary product. You will either love it or hate it. My response to it on it being announced was very mixed bag, my response to it in use is still the same. The human body is absolutely unique among individuals; ergonomics is always about creating a compromise. It’s about making what feels good to the largest percentage of individuals. I’m in the percentage that just barely considers it an improvement.

However at 35 dollars it’s too cheap not to try out for yourself, make these decisions after some range time, and see how it works for yourself. I do want to thank Magpul for allowing me to try one of these out for free, and come to these conclusions myself as impartially as possible.

yallknowho

12-20-09, 14:35

fantastic review titleist, thanks.

Roy

12-20-09, 15:05

THANKS MP....

Got my AFG as i LAY in bed with a 102* fever. not feeling too great. 2 days later got it on my rifle.

Quality seems very high as with all MP stuff.

Threw my AFG on a 6920 with 7" Surefire Quad rail. Instilation was a breeze. lock up is sturdy. I am 6'02" and found it to be too close if i mounted in a " Nutrual" position on the rail. I slid it foward to the point that the "Duck Bill" was covering my bayonet lug. feels very comfortable there allows me to get a very high grip with my reaction side hand. thumb up near FSP. and allows me to activate my scout light with my reaction side thumb knuckle.

Impressions: I like the control i feel i have over the weapon. while clearing my house and engaging the invaders (read Snowmen); i felt i was able to change directon of the weapon very rapidly.

Things i would change:
Id like to see it a little grippier.. as im not sure how it may preform when wet/ hands are cold ect..

Id like to see a more pronnunced end. where the pinky sits so i can really lock the weapon toward me.

Concerns: My only concrns are as follows
Finding Trigger time
NOt sure it will still fit in the rack of my squad car due to the size of the AFG.
I am also concerned that my partner who missed the boat will try to steal my AFG out of the trunk of our car.

Ill try to find a camera and document this

THANKS AGAIN MAGPUL

Mate

12-20-09, 15:08

Titleist, is there anyway you could just move the peq-15 closer to the T1? That way you'd be able to wrap you're thumb around the 12 o clock position on the rail.

Just a thought.

Titleist

12-20-09, 17:40

Titleist, is there anyway you could just move the peq-15 closer to the T1? That way you'd be able to wrap you're thumb around the 12 o clock position on the rail.

Just a thought.

I could move the PEQ backwards like Travis runs his, but that to me creates two grips I have to employ when running my rifle. One in the day, and one at the night. And frankly that seems like a step backwards just to run a new piece of kit.

Where I have the stubby, surefire, and PEQ are perfect in my humble opinion. To hit the PEQ's pressure pad is a VERY slight rotation of my wrist backwards, with the AFG it's way more pronounced and i lose positive control over the front of the rifle. Here's a photo of that placement in regards to my hand: http://www.flickr.com/photos/isaac_marchionna/4105284224/sizes/l/in/set-72157622805709870/

Moving the PEQ back might make for a better grip during the day, but it would create a situation where I have to mentally re-grip the rifle during the night in a manner not as comfortable or as secure. The TD stubby creates one grip to rule them all...I mean it works 100 percent of the time for me.

bradb55

12-20-09, 17:55

Very well done Titleist!

Great review man.:)

Rated21R

12-20-09, 18:02

can't wait to hear/see more about these. seems like another great product from MagPul.

RogerinTPA

12-20-09, 18:06

Back from the range. I replaced the finger shelf and fired some Failure/Mozambique drills, NSR Drills, Vtac 2x2x2 and 1-5 drills. The AFG felt pretty comfortable shooting those drills, and felt much better than with the finger shelf the other day. I was able to drive the gun from target to target much better after I got used to using the AFG. As Roy stated, as my hands, without gloves, began to get a little sweaty, the grip seemed to slip and I had to use a higher grip. I can imagine it getting slippery with heavy sweat, rain, or during amphibious operations. A more aggressive texture would aid in driving the weapon and retention, under wet or dry conditions.

The AFG mounted to my LMT MRP

http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee15/RogerTPA/AFG/PC200005.jpg

http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee15/RogerTPA/AFG/PC200006.jpg

http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee15/RogerTPA/AFG/PC200004.jpg

http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee15/RogerTPA/AFG/PC200003.jpg

Zhurdan

12-21-09, 12:50

Alright, in order to avoid being made into a voodoo doll and poked and prodded with things I'd rather not, I went shooting this weekend with the AFG install. It was just a touch colder than "freeze your nads off", so I didn't stay out very long. I got a few pics (below) but for some reason, my wife wouldn't get out of the truck to snap some action photos. (wimp)

http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r127/Zhurdan/IMG_0607.jpg
http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r127/Zhurdan/IMG_0610.jpg

The spot where I set up my target stand had about 3' of snow, so I had to toss a coke can out there to shoot at so this is only my preliminary thoughts. (yes I retrieved it, I just didn't feel like carrying 60 lbs of target stand thru the snow)

I put 180 rounds down range, incorporating some mag changes and switching shoulders. I originally had it mounted a little further back, but quickly noticed that it needed to be more forward (where it's mounted in the pics) it's a little off the rail on the front end, but that seems to be a commonality in the other photos of others rifles. I'm a little concerned what that will mean on the 10.5" upper I'm waiting for a stamp on. I'm not sure it'll be of as much a benefit being the support arm most likely won't be extended enough. We shall see as soon as the magic stamp shows up.

As an aside, I've only been doing work with the ASP and MS2 in the living room and I gotta say, it's slicker than snot on a door knob when switching to support side working with it outside the living room. I did also notice that when the AFG was further out, I didn't have as hard a time finding correct hand position or bump the back end of it as I was when it was mounted further back. Kind of counter to what I'd thought, but it just felt a whole lot more natural further out.

I had the can dancing, but I'd really like to get two targets out there and do some back and forth work with the AFG. I think that's where it'll really shine.

Thanks again Magpul for allowing me to play around with this product. I'll be ordering a couple more (in OD... I just have a thing for green) when they become available.

dutch308

12-21-09, 13:17

Hey guys, The Holiday mail must really be messed up in my area. I recieved my shipped notice on the 17th and my AFG still hasnt arrived:-( Anyone else still twiddling their thumbs waiting?

d90king

12-21-09, 13:33

Hey guys, The Holiday mail must really be messed up in my area. I recieved my shipped notice on the 17th and my AFG still hasnt arrived:-( Anyone else still twiddling their thumbs waiting?

Hmmm, I wouldn't worry, YET.:D If its not there by Fri then your screwed.:p I am sure it is just the flood for the holiday that is causing your delay. It appears that many that made it into the T&E have received theirs.

Shawn.L

12-21-09, 16:14

http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x319/spelf01/SN851314.jpg

Just got my MI rail sections for the MOE handguards in today. I am suprised by how tight this all locks up, from the handguards through the rail to the AFG. Its solid.

On a bad note the front most section of my MOE hadguards broke off upon reinstillation :( its just cosmetic, but, oh well.

I have to get used to these short carbine handguards, I am used to a middy.

So far it seems nice, handles well, but I havent got to shoot with it yet. hopefully this weekend I'll get out if the weather cooperates maybe Sunday.

(the light is just a temp)

ejeffreyhorn

12-21-09, 16:22

Just got my MI rail sections for the MOE handguards in today. I am suprised by how tight this all locks up, from the handguards through the rail to the AFG. Its solid.

On a bad note the front most section of my MOE hadguards broke off upon reinstillation :( its just cosmetic, but, oh well.

I have to get used to these short carbine handguards, I am used to a middy.

So far it seems nice, handles well, but I havent got to shoot with it yet. hopefully this weekend I'll get out if the weather cooperates maybe Sunday.

(the light is just a temp)

Shawn - Do you have any additional pictures of your setup. I am really curious to get a better look at the AFG on the MOE handguard.

Also, what happened to cause the breakage on your handguards? Was it related to the addition of the rail or AFG?

CharlieKilo

12-21-09, 16:59

Anyone have pics with the AFG on a BCM Middy yet?

lindertw

12-21-09, 17:36

would the bottom of a DD RIS II rail pose any problems with mounting an AFG?

http://i910.photobucket.com/albums/ac306/lindertw/RIS_II_bottom.jpg?t=1261438207

Titleist

12-21-09, 17:44

As long as the cross screw doesn't go in that patch where a cross screw wouldn't go, then you'll be fine.

lindertw

12-21-09, 17:46

As long as the cross screw doesn't go in that patch where a cross screw wouldn't go, then you'll be fine.

thank you Titleist

Shawn.L

12-21-09, 18:16

Shawn - Do you have any additional pictures of your setup. I am really curious to get a better look at the AFG on the MOE handguard.

Also, what happened to cause the breakage on your handguards? Was it related to the addition of the rail or AFG?

http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x319/spelf01/SN851315.jpg
http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x319/spelf01/SN851316.jpg
http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x319/spelf01/SN851317.jpg

as to the handguards, IDK, I just noticed it after reassembly

CharlieKilo

12-21-09, 18:45

Is it just me, or was the AFG sized to fit the MOE hand guard perfectly?

RichFitz

12-21-09, 22:57

http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x319/spelf01/SN851314.jpg

On a bad note the front most section of my MOE handguards broke off upon reinstillation :( its just cosmetic, but, oh well.

I have never seen a break like that, weird. Contact our tech support and we will replace the handguard for you.

Bantee

12-21-09, 23:05

I have never seen a break like that, weird. Contact our tech support and we will replace the handguard for you.

And that gentlemen is what makes Magpul the best in the business as far as I'm concerned.

wake.joe

12-21-09, 23:51

Still writing my text review. (As well as making some hardware modification to how I'd like the AFG to sit. ;) ) But in response to those asking for more pictures on an MOE foregrip, here they are!

It fits great on a rail with rail covers. But, it hangs down too far on the MOE. (I personally think.) I like the forward-most part of the AFG underneath the FSB. It felt pretty good. But it was still too tall to get a comfortable hold on the rifle. I am working out modifying to illustrate. Essentially, I'd like to see the bottom half of an MOE Foregrip with the AFG molded in. Tomorrow or Wed. I will post my modifications. If they work out.

Here are pictures of the AFG mounted centered on the MOE, and then out front of it (Which worked out pretty nice.)

http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb300/AdrianJoe/IMG_0290.jpg

http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb300/AdrianJoe/IMG_0294.jpg

http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb300/AdrianJoe/IMG_0295-2.jpg

http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb300/AdrianJoe/IMG_0296.jpg

http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb300/AdrianJoe/IMG_0297.jpg

http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb300/AdrianJoe/IMG_0298.jpg

http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb300/AdrianJoe/IMG_0303.jpg

http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb300/AdrianJoe/IMG_0306.jpg

Not my hands!

http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb300/AdrianJoe/IMG_0308.jpg

http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb300/AdrianJoe/IMG_0310.jpg

http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb300/AdrianJoe/IMG_0312.jpg

http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb300/AdrianJoe/IMG_0314.jpg

Zeus

12-22-09, 00:19

...but on the MOE fore grip (any carbine length), isn't it too close for a comfortable grip? Looks like anyone with decent length arms would lose the advantage of the grip angle (that the AFG was designed for). Don't get me wrong, got a MOE fore grip on my go to carbine right now, I just can't help but wonder if the AFG was not designed with longer rails in mind from the get go.

BTW Joe, you got some pretty hands there :p

wake.joe

12-22-09, 00:26

...but on the MOE fore grip (any carbine length), isn't it too close for a comfortable grip?

Yes, if you like to hold very far out. I found it perfect if I put the "flat" area of the AFG underneath the FSB. I don't hold as far out as most people, though. It's not comfortable, to me, and I'd rather take a round to the elbow than the arm pit. :cool:

BTW Joe, you got some pretty hands there :p

Heck yeah. :D My manicurist is god himself.

Zeus

12-22-09, 00:39

My statements are purely academic at this point not getting in on the T&E (Damit!). I'm just applying the biomechanics that were used in the introduction of the AFG. I do like the concept. Also, I still run a Sixell Innovations Never Quit Grip on my goto gun. So I have a wide range of what's "comfortable" for the moment.

I prefer to not take the round in the first place... he who shoots last... well, we all know. ;)

Heck yeah. My manicurist is god himself.

LOL!

wake.joe

12-22-09, 00:52

Your academic opinion is pretty accurate!

nickdrak

12-22-09, 01:59

Very interesting!!! I always get a throbbing pain in my wrist after extended range sessions, and especially when running/deploying my duty rifle in the current Chicago winter temps due to some arthritis in my wirst. I currently run a Knights handstop, but I think this AFG may help me out a bit with the pain. I will order one as soon as they come available to try out....

agr1279

12-22-09, 07:08

I have got mine and haven't had a chance to play with it on the rifle yet. It does look well made. I will work on getting it taken care of over the next couple of days.

Dan Jones

ejeffreyhorn

12-22-09, 11:17

Travis.L - Thanks for the additional photos.

It fits great on a rail with rail covers. But, it hangs down too far on the MOE. (I personally think.) I like the forward-most part of the AFG underneath the FSB. It felt pretty good. But it was still too tall to get a comfortable hold on the rifle. I am working out modifying to illustrate. Essentially, I'd like to see the bottom half of an MOE Foregrip with the AFG molded in. Tomorrow or Wed. I will post my modifications. If they work out.

What wake.joe describes here was part of my concern when asking for photos.

Part of what the AFG was designed for - as I understand it - is to get your thumb higher up on the centerline of the bore at the right wrist angle. It appears to me that the sheer vertical distance between the AFG and the top of the MOE handguards would make that difficult for some.

Shawn.L

12-22-09, 14:43

I have never seen a break like that, weird. Contact our tech support and we will replace the handguard for you.

I just called and they are shipping me a new one out.
always excellent customer service.

CCK

12-22-09, 17:24

Can some one post a pic from the muzzle of the rifle. I've yet to see exactly how the wings at front angle up.

Thanks,
Chris

SPDGG

12-22-09, 17:25

Thank You Magpul :D

I received mine, will post pics/feedback/review soon.

dutch308

12-22-09, 17:36

Just recieved mine about an hour ago!!! Will get it mounted and try to hit the range Tomorrow after work!

bradb55

12-22-09, 21:09

Someone ask for a middy with an AFG and a front shot of the AFG mounted. Sorry its not a rail gun, but I'm waiting on the midlength MOE handguards.

http://i782.photobucket.com/albums/yy110/bradb55/01.jpg

http://i782.photobucket.com/albums/yy110/bradb55/02.jpg

CoryCop25

12-23-09, 09:53

And that gentlemen is what makes Magpul the best in the business as far as I'm concerned.

+1!!!!

kwelz

12-24-09, 11:43

Well this morning I got my AFG in. I went to install it on one of my rifles and immediately found a problem. When using a DD Omega X rail, the size of the AFG precludes the mounting of anything on the side panels. Even XT and XTM panels mounted on the side get in the way. And my Flashlight mount is right out. I need to look at my configuration and figure out what I need to change. Will try to post photos later.

og556

12-24-09, 17:22

I just received mine today after ordering it through DSG Arms on Monday. I installed it on my Noveske N4 Light RECCE Low-Pro and it slid on without a hitch. The fit seems to be tight and stable and the quality is top notch, there is no excess flash or fit issues.

I run this carbine with three XTM rail panels on the left and right side of the rails and there were no clearance issues with the AFG on this N4.

My initial handling impressions are very positive so far. I used the thumb break grip with my TD stubby VFG previous to this and it worked but this was never comfortable for me especially with a front heavy carbine like this. I even ran my rifle for a while without VFG but had trouble maintaining a consistent support arm position during drills.

The AFG seems to remedy my issues running a traditional VFG using the thumb break grip as well as the consistent grip issue I have when not running a VFG. It feels a lot more comfortable holding this rifle and allows me to pull the rifle into my shoulder without fatigue while maintaining a steady stance/grip.

I can't wait to get out to the range next week with this but so far the AFG seems like a winner !

I will take some pictures tomorrow or the day after with my GF's new camera I got her for Christmas.

bradb55

12-25-09, 10:35

I guess I'll be buying a second one.

My wife and son give me a MI quad rail for my AK for Christmas. So while everyone was enjoying their gifts I decided to seek away and install the rail system.

Once I had it installed I removed the AFG from my Middy and installed it on the MI rail. The AFG was a perfect fit. I think this is what I've been missing. It definitely makes for a better forum for me. AFG has a great feel on my AK. One concern is where my thumb ends up. Because an AK has a thicker handguard and where the sights are I can not put my thumb over the top of the rail with out blocking the front sight. So I end up with my thumb inline with the gastube. I guess I'll end wear gloves with or the AFG. I've heard the MI rail gets hot.

The AFG does not interfere with inserting magazines at all. The oringal sling attach does get tangled around and mess with my thumb alittle bit, but a sling rail attachment will solve that.

Here are some pix

http://i782.photobucket.com/albums/yy110/bradb55/AKQuad002.jpg

http://i782.photobucket.com/albums/yy110/bradb55/AKQuad005.jpg

http://i782.photobucket.com/albums/yy110/bradb55/AKQuad008.jpg

http://i782.photobucket.com/albums/yy110/bradb55/AKQuad011.jpg

http://i782.photobucket.com/albums/yy110/bradb55/AKQuad004.jpg

chenzzo

12-26-09, 19:18

First off, thanks to Magpul for sending so many of these out for free for people to test them out and evaluate them. I know most of the people who got these are probably big AR guys and have tried every different AR doodad out already, but having just finished my first AR, I thought I might offer a little different insight.

First off, I love how this thing is put together. If you're familiar with any of the other magpul gear, then expect the same level of quality here. It's very solid and well put together. Minor gripe is that to mount it you use a flat head screwdriver but to take it apart to change out the finger grip insert you have to use an allen wrench. Minor quibble but it seems like using the same sort of fastener would have made it a little more user friendly.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v318/chenzzo/MAGPUL%20AFG/afgsideinsert.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v318/chenzzo/MAGPUL%20AFG/sidew223.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v318/chenzzo/MAGPUL%20AFG/afg3-4.jpg

Secondly, (and this is not an AFG issue, rather a MOE hand guard issue) is that once you add a piece of rail on the bottom of the hand guard and then add some sort of fore grip to it, that leverage pulling on the hand guard make it seem a little less stable than it does when you're just holding on to the hand guard itself. I didn't notice that much wobble in the hand guards when I shot with them last week, but once you add a VFG or the AFG, the leverage generated from your hand pushing on the fore grip, exaggerates the issue. It's worse with a standard fore grip than with the AFG though. As a result of this, I'm most likely going to get a rail system of some sort eventually.

As far as mounting the AFG goes, it's a snap. I used a 4" piece of aluminum rail from ERGO. I don't think you really need more than that unless you're wanting to add something else on the rail as well. The 4" piece is almost exactly the same length as the AFG. In the pics below you can see a little rail sticking out the back, but that's just because I've got the AFG riding forward where my hand naturally falls when I do this grip style. The single bolt goes through the rails and locks the AFG in place.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v318/chenzzo/MAGPUL%20AFG/afgbottom.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v318/chenzzo/MAGPUL%20AFG/afginside.jpg

Look at the pics below to see that while it does take up more horizontal space on the rail, it takes up a TON less space vertically, and would be ideal for a SBR or CQ rifle where you're trying to avoid having bits of gear sticking out to catch on stuff.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v318/chenzzo/MAGPUL%20AFG/mountedrail.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v318/chenzzo/MAGPUL%20AFG/mountedvfg.jpg

The finger grip protrusion worried me when I first saw pictures but it falls directly between my first two fingers and the last two fingers. As easy as that piece is to flip over or remove and replace with the smooth insert though, I can't imagine any one having problems. I was also worried about the overall size of the AFG, because I have very large hands, but it seems to have been designed with that in mind, or with gloved hands in mind, as it fits my hand almost perfectly.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v318/chenzzo/MAGPUL%20AFG/afgonlybottom.jpg

This last picture is to show a bit better how the AFG interacts with the MOE hand guards since I've seen a ton of people asking about it. I can definitely see Magpul making a version of the AFG that just replaces the bottom piece of the MOE hand guard. It seems like it would be the natural progression to just alter the MOE hand guard altogether or increase the price a bit and give a straight bottom or a AFG bottom piece.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v318/chenzzo/MAGPUL%20AFG/afgfrontview.jpg

As far as using it goes, I haven't had a chance to fire it with the AFG installed yet, but the bastardized grip that I was using with the VFG is the exact same grip that the AFG pretty much automatically puts you in. From the pistol training I've done, I know that the closer your hands are to the same axis as bore of the gun, the more accurate you tend to be and the less felt recoil you perceive. As such, the grip that the AFG forces you into does pretty much the same thing on the AR platform. For me personally I can't see paying 50-100 for a standard vertical foregrip that I'll be jury rigging to work with this grip style, when someone out there is now making something that works perfectly for this style and is considerably cheaper.

The ergonomics of it feel very nice in the hand. I've let some other non-AR rifle shooters feel the gun with with the AFG installed and they commented on how natural it felt. The fact that you don't have to over-supinate your hand makes a world of difference in the pointabilty of the rifle. Personally if I supinate my wrist in the typical hunting rifle position for a long period of time, the tendons in the back of my hand start to ache. That doesn't happen for me with the AFG, which is another reason that I like it. It definitely seems like a lot of thought went into this to get the angle and the ergonomics down.

That's about it till I get a chance to shoot with it installed. Thanks again Magpul!

NCPatrolAR

12-28-09, 09:41

I ordered an AFG from DSG and it arrived last week. Due the weather and my work schedule I haven't had a chance to take it the range but have been doing dry practice with at home. So far it seems to be working as well as the stubby VFGs I've been running for the past few years. I do feel that I can apply a bit more reward pressure with the AFG versus the stubby grips though. Live-fire drills on the range will determine if I keep it or not.

There are several issues I've seen with the AFG. In order to get the grip to fit on the MI rails I use, I had to dremel the inside of the grip (only one side) in order to get it to clear the screws at the front of the handguard. There was no interference from the years old XT panels I use.

The second issue I've encountered is the slick nature of the grip. I find my hand sliding down and off the grip. I plan to mark up the grip with a soldering iron in order to improve the grip.

Jay Cunningham

12-28-09, 14:15

One concern is where my thumb ends up. Because an AK has a thicker handguard and where the sights are I can not put my thumb over the top of the rail with out blocking the front sight. So I end up with my thumb inline with the gastube. I guess I'll end wear gloves with or the AFG. I've heard the MI rail gets hot.

Um yeah I would be a little worried about that too. You are going to burn your hand, even with gloves - at least from looking at your picture.

d90king

12-28-09, 14:50

d90king

12-28-09, 14:52

bradb55

12-28-09, 21:03

Um yeah I would be a little worried about that too. You are going to burn your hand, even with gloves - at least from looking at your picture.

Katar & D90king,
OH does it get hot. I thought it might ride ok, but it don't work that way. It got very hot without and with gloves. I've since moved it back a little on the rail. It doesn't give the hold I was looking for. Its still a lot better than just holding the rail itself. Even after moving it back alittle it still DOES NOT interfere with loads as would a VFG.

nickdrak

12-28-09, 21:48

Mine just came in today. I mounted it, and I immediately noticed that it takes alot of the pressure off of my arthritic support hand wrist when compared to the KAC hand stop that I have been running for several months.

So far I dig it! I will post further impressions after I have my patrol rifle out during an extended patrol deployment & after some range time....

SHIVAN

12-28-09, 21:49

I got mine installed and gave it a whirl on a 10.5" Noveske barreled DD Lite railed SBR. My initial impression is that the theory laid out about more natural control seems to carry over to the execution of the AFG.

Control seems a little more natural, and the position and shape of the AFG seem to dictate precise repetitive placement of the hand presentation after presentation.

Personal preference would be to have a slightly more aggressive bump at this location:

http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee192/SHIVAN308/Stuff/AFG_edited.jpg

Nothing drastic, maybe just a a 1/4" more, or even equivalent to the front bump. It would satisfy my personal preference of comfort.

I am also going to add some grip tape to the front surfaces and see how I like it.

nickdrak

12-28-09, 21:50

Shivan,

Good point. I am with you on having a little more of a ledge or grasping point on the area you have indicated to assist in pulling the rifle in.

Dr. Fixit

12-29-09, 09:46

I received mine just before Christmas. It is well made just like the other products from Magpul. One thing that I did notice is that when fully installed (per the instructions) onto a standard carbine length handguard the angle created by the grip feels slightly awkward, putting pressure on the wrist, but I do suspect this is from the shortness of the carbine handguards and not the AFG itself.

I will post again once the holidays are over...

Wilco

12-29-09, 23:33

RetreatHell

12-30-09, 01:02

What it seems to me, and correct me if I'm wrong, but this appears to be more for 9" rails +, correct. I'm 6'0" and on a 7" rail it seems like I would be cramped up.

What seems to be the consensus of the guys that have these on 7" rails?

I personally feel that it's pretty pointless on a 7" rail for the majority of shooters out there. You can just get away with it on a 9" rail, but it definitely feels and works best on 10+ inch rails.

I'm sure that there are some out there that have 7" carbine length rails that the AFG works great for them due to their personal body type and physical characteristics. However, I think that it will do more harm than good for most shooters who mount it on a 7" rail, as the AFG is specifically designed to place your hand into the thumb-break grip with your reaction-side arm extended almost all the way. That's how you're able to control recoil so well using that particular grip.

So if you have long arms and you have the AFG mounted on a 7" rail, and you're gripping the rail the way it's meant to be gripped when using the AFG, then your arm is going to be bent pretty drastically at the elbow, thereby practically nullifying any advantages that the AFG gives to you. But I guess if you've got very short arms and have an AFG mounted on a 7" carbine rail, and have the collapsible stock extended 3+ positions, then it would probably work rather well for you (I'm just assuming, here).

These are just my opinions, so hopefully no one with the AFG mounted on a carbine length rail gets all butt-hurt after reading this. But I suppose if you feel that your AFG works out perfectly for you on your 7" rail, then that's all that matters in the end.

Semper Fi,

-Paul

kwelz

12-30-09, 01:22

Something it does an OK job of is adding a bit of length to a short rail. But a 7 inch rail is still to short.

SWATcop556

12-31-09, 01:29

Anyone stipple theirs yet and, if so, do you have any pics?

RetreatHell

12-31-09, 02:04

Anyone stipple theirs yet and, if so, do you have any pics?

Mine should be arriving tomorrow, and I plan on stippling it in the next couple days. I'll make sure to post pics of it afterwards for you, brother.;)

Take care and Semper Fi,

-Paul

d90king

12-31-09, 09:34

Mine should be arriving tomorrow, and I plan on stippling it in the next couple days. I'll make sure to post pics of it afterwards for you, brother.;)

Take care and Semper Fi,

-Paul

That would be great! I would like to see one stippled and how it changes the texture!

rkba01

12-31-09, 09:53

Anyone stipple theirs yet and, if so, do you have any pics?
Kilo 1-1 did.
https://www.m4carbine.net/showpost.php?p=525034&postcount=196

pakieser

12-31-09, 11:02

Got mine today. My initial impression is I don't like it.

I wanted to like it, but it just doesn't work for me.

Mounted on an MOE carbine forend, even with the AFG mounted as far forward as I can get it, the grip breaks my wrist in an extremely uncomfortable manner.

I tried messing around with the distance and I think that if I mounted this at the end of a longer forend, it would work much better for me. I've been toying with the idea of putting a 13.5" rail on my gun, so I'm going to set it aside for now in case that project ever comes to fruition.

I have long arms and arthritic wrists, so it's entirely possible other people will have different experiences.

Other than the ergonomic issue, the execution is very good, durable plastic and easy-to adjust hardware. I really like being able to remove it with a flathead.

I also really like being able to remove the finger groove - mad props to Magpul for making it optional! Too many manufacturers don't do that.

If the angle were not so extreme, I think it would work better for me; on a lark I tried mounting it backwards and it felt much better. There could be a market for grips with different angles.

It's a good product, but not for me - at least, not right now.

SWATcop556

12-31-09, 12:49

Kilo 1-1 did.
https://www.m4carbine.net/showpost.php?p=525034&postcount=196

Thanks, that's what I was looking for.

LOKNLOD

12-31-09, 20:32

I'm replying to my original post, rather than editing, because many things have been discussed since then and I didn't want to edit my post and make it look like I was a clairvoyant to people who might read up later.

I received mine today as well, and after getting the kiddoes to sleep have had the chance to do a brief dry run. Here are some very preliminary thoughts...

First, I tried to slip it on my BCM midlength with Larue 12.0. This is the carbine I ran at the OKC MD class in Sept. and I already had it set up for the "half retard" grip with a stubby TD grip. Slight SNAFU right out of the gate... due to the shorter height of the 6 o'clock rail on the Larue, and the raised sides at the front of the AFG, the grip slides on very tightly. It will not slide past an XTM panel, VTAC light mount, or even a ladder panel. Now, with those removed, it does slide past, so that's only a minor inconvenience. However, the AFG sits so close to the 3 and 9 o'clock rails you can't reinstall anything on the rail directly above the front end of the AFG. A couple minutes with a file, dremel, or some sandpaper, and I think I'd be chopping tall cotton. I opted not to dick with it for now, since my other AR has a DD rail and I was eager to get a feel for it. If I end up with more of these, I've got no problem modding one to work with the LT rail.

On to my SBR, a 6933 with DD 9.5 FSP rail. On the DD rail, it fits no problemo and slides right under my XTMs and VTAC light mount, and replaces a TD grip that was chopped into a minimal handstop (about half the height of a stubby). I have not had this SBR long and am still playing with light placement...the AFG has either complicated this, or added new options, depending on how you look at it. Either way it will take some shooting time to figure out the best light setup for me.

Subjectively, it feels right at home on the longer rail where I can get more extension with my arm. Perhaps a little less so on the shorty, but I think the light issues are distracting me on that one. It's stupid to draw too many conclusions about weapon handling while standing in my gun room a.k.a. closet, so take that for what it's worth (about as much as your GM stock).

More objectively, the AFG is lightweight and fits snugly on both rails I tried it on. Install is easy, and swapping out the finger nubbin inserts is a piece of cake. (I like the nubbin in what I'd call the "down" position, thus far). I'm a little bummed I'm going to have to do some fitting to get everything where I want it on the Larue rail, but that's not the end of the world.

I will follow up with pics when I have better lighting, and should get a chance to do some shooting over the holiday break. I'm looking forward to it

Alright, well I've finally had the time to go back and get some pics on both rifles and my grip with the different setups, and fiddle with it some more. I was using a stack of Christmas trash for a tripod, so forgive the picture quality. Please keep in mind also that I am not a professional warrior, just a guy who wants to be as effective as possible with my weapons on the off chance that if I am ever shooting somebody, I want to do it really well. Feel free to mock my goofy ass for posing in the garage, but if my technique looks like too much of a soup sandwich, just forget I went to a Magpul class a while back. I don't want Chris's beard to come after me with Mike's tomahawk in the dead of night for ruining their rep. :cool:

First up, let's hit on a few of the design issues that others have brought up.

Texture: Yes, overall it could be grippier. I'd like to see a more omni-directional "gritty" pattern like on the sides of the MIAD grip vs. the horizontal bars, but for all I know, the mold designs for this part could be limiting the options. With so many easy (read: cheap) DIY options to rough up plastic surfaces, I think the texture is a non-issue. Going to a more aggressive texture could get as many complaints as it does kudos, so I think the current version falls satisfactorily in the middle ground somewhere. I also believe that it's easy to over-analyze something like texture when you've got time to think about it, and then it kind of fades to the background when you're actually shooting.

Screws & fastners: I read some complaints/concerns about the usage of differing screw types for the mounting screw vs. the disassembly screws, with folks insisting they should use the same head type (usually wanting slotted for both). I think the setup is just right as is. The slotted screw head for the crossbolt makes sense because it might be moved/removed in the field, but the tiny screws that hold the two halves of the grip together make sense to be hex socket head. There's no good reason to be removing those in the field (or ever, really, once you decide which insert to use). And slotted screws that small would really be too tiny to use any improvised driver on, and would be more prone to stripping than the hex head. On a related note, it would be great if the hex nut for the crossbolt could be captured on the part, somehow. While playing musical foregrips in my garage, I dropped it several times. It wasn't hard to find on concrete, but in grass, mud, or sand it'd be easy to lose.

Next, let's talk about the fit issue on Larue rails. Without knowing the whole story, it seems like a pretty big oversight to release these in a form that doesn't function at full capacity with one of the most common rails on the market. But I don't want to assume too much. The LT rail certainly poses it's own challenge due to the lower height of the 6 o'clock rail -- Obligatory comparison pic, DD Lite rail on left, Larue rail on right:
http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f392/LOKNLOD/Guns/AFG/th_DDvsLTrailheights.jpg (http://s51.photobucket.com/albums/f392/LOKNLOD/Guns/AFG/?action=view&current=DDvsLTrailheights.jpg)
but since I was able to make it work with some filing/trimming without destroying the AFG, I think it would be reasonable to have fit the LT rail out of the box with no mods. I did end up trimming quite a bit from mine, as shown below with one side done. I ended up taking even more off the other side, to make a notch where my VTAC light mount would fit.
http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f392/LOKNLOD/Guns/AFG/th_AFGonLTRail.jpg (http://s51.photobucket.com/albums/f392/LOKNLOD/Guns/AFG/?action=view&current=AFGonLTRail.jpg) http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f392/LOKNLOD/Guns/AFG/th_onesidetrimmed2.jpg (http://s51.photobucket.com/albums/f392/LOKNLOD/Guns/AFG/?action=view&current=onesidetrimmed2.jpg) http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f392/LOKNLOD/Guns/AFG/th_onesidetrimmed.jpg (http://s51.photobucket.com/albums/f392/LOKNLOD/Guns/AFG/?action=view&current=onesidetrimmed.jpg)

First carbine, built on a BCM midlength upper with Larue 12.0, TR24, and UBR. I shot it at the OKC Magpul Dynamics Carbine 1 class at the end of September, configured as shown here with a TD Stubby grip. This is how I gripped the rifle, both with and without activating the light.
http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f392/LOKNLOD/Guns/AFG/th_Midpre-AFG.jpg (http://s51.photobucket.com/albums/f392/LOKNLOD/Guns/AFG/?action=view&current=Midpre-AFG.jpg)http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f392/LOKNLOD/Guns/AFG/th_MidVFGnonlight.jpg (http://s51.photobucket.com/albums/f392/LOKNLOD/Guns/AFG/?action=view&current=MidVFGnonlight.jpg)http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f392/LOKNLOD/Guns/AFG/th_MidVFGlight.jpg (http://s51.photobucket.com/albums/f392/LOKNLOD/Guns/AFG/?action=view&current=MidVFGlight.jpg)

With the long rail, I'm able to slide the AFG way up front, and get it into a position that works well with my both my existing light configuration and my shooting grip/stance. I realize that "feels" is a very fuzzy way of describing something, but the AFG on this carbine "feels" natural. I'm able to get the right amount of arm extension, and still apply an even pull on the gun back into my body. I suspect it might result in less hand/arm fatigue, but honestly I think it will take a lot of trigger time to decide that. That's a difficult thing to test objectively.
http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f392/LOKNLOD/Guns/AFG/th_MidAFGnonlight.jpg (http://s51.photobucket.com/albums/f392/LOKNLOD/Guns/AFG/?action=view&current=MidAFGnonlight.jpg)http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f392/LOKNLOD/Guns/AFG/th_MidAFGlight.jpg (http://s51.photobucket.com/albums/f392/LOKNLOD/Guns/AFG/?action=view&current=MidAFGlight.jpg)

My attempt to shoehorn the AFG onto a shorter rail met with some of the same issues as many of the other users. My SBR is a Colt 6933 with a DD Lite 9.5 FSP, and currently I've got a TD grip that I've chopped into more of a "rifle nipple" handstop than a vert grip. Since taking possession in October, one thing I still don't have nailed down 100% is my light configuration -- what I've ended up with thusfar is mounting at 1:00 and reaching over with my thumb to hit it. Putting it at 11:00 like my midlenght forces either my hand too far back on the rail, or the light so far out that it sticks way out past the muzzle. This forces my grip to get a little awkward when using the light, but I've kind of accepted that as a compromise for the short length, for now. Here it is pre-AFG, and how I've been using it:
http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f392/LOKNLOD/Guns/AFG/th_6933pre-AFG.jpg (http://s51.photobucket.com/albums/f392/LOKNLOD/Guns/AFG/?action=view&current=6933pre-AFG.jpg) http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f392/LOKNLOD/Guns/AFG/th_6933VFGnonlight.jpg (http://s51.photobucket.com/albums/f392/LOKNLOD/Guns/AFG/?action=view&current=6933VFGnonlight.jpg) non-light http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f392/LOKNLOD/Guns/AFG/th_6933VFGlight.jpg (http://s51.photobucket.com/albums/f392/LOKNLOD/Guns/AFG/?action=view&current=6933VFGlight.jpg) w/ light

I began by trying the AFG all the way forward on the rail. In this position, my non-light grip actually feels pretty decent, and I can get my hand a little farther forward than I could before, but I have a major change in position to activate my light:
http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f392/LOKNLOD/Guns/AFG/th_6933AFGfwd.jpg (http://s51.photobucket.com/albums/f392/LOKNLOD/Guns/AFG/?action=view&current=6933AFGfwd.jpg)http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f392/LOKNLOD/Guns/AFG/th_6933AFGfwdnonlight.jpg (http://s51.photobucket.com/albums/f392/LOKNLOD/Guns/AFG/?action=view&current=6933AFGfwdnonlight.jpg) non-light http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f392/LOKNLOD/Guns/AFG/th_6933AFGfwdlight.jpg (http://s51.photobucket.com/albums/f392/LOKNLOD/Guns/AFG/?action=view&current=6933AFGfwdlight.jpg) w/ light
I don't think it translates well in the pictures, but it also feels a lot more awkward reaching over the top with my thumb with the AFG mounted. My hand is more "open", and I'm gripping using my finger strength vs. my hand strength, if that makes sense. Not cool.

So next I slid the AFG back a few notches, and swapped the light to the 11:00 position, and slid it forward in the mount, like so:
http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f392/LOKNLOD/Guns/AFG/th_6933AFGrear.jpg (http://s51.photobucket.com/albums/f392/LOKNLOD/Guns/AFG/?action=view&current=6933AFGrear.jpg)
As you can see it sticks out past the muzzle slightly. This allowed me to operate the light with a little less drama, but my arm extension doesn't feel as solid as it does mounted farther out.
http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f392/LOKNLOD/Guns/AFG/th_6933AFGrearnonlight.jpg (http://s51.photobucket.com/albums/f392/LOKNLOD/Guns/AFG/?action=view&current=6933AFGrearnonlight.jpg) non-light http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f392/LOKNLOD/Guns/AFG/th_6933AFGrearnonlight.jpg (http://s51.photobucket.com/albums/f392/LOKNLOD/Guns/AFG/?action=view&current=6933AFGrearnonlight.jpg)
As you can see, this lets me operate might light with less shift, but overall it just doesn't feel "right".

All in all, I just don't feel much gain on the short setup. If I was running a 10" or 11" non-FSB rail, perhaps with a 12:00 light mount, or a tape-switch setup, I think the AFG would fit my SBR feng-shui a lot better; as is, I don't feel there is a benefit over my current setup. As much as I like the concept, the AFG isn't worth the cost of reconfiguring my whole rifle around it. Rail length and weaponlight configuration are the stumbling blocks to AFG usage for me, and with the 9.5 I've got enough rail length if I didn't have the light issues. I was already hoping to try out a different light setup, so while the AFG will not be making a home on my SBR right now, I might give it another go in the future.

On the other hand, the AFG feels right at home on my midlength rifle, and will stay there for the time being. I might even paint it to match :D If you're already shooting with the technique the AFG facilitates, and have a carbine where it can play nicely with your other gear, then the AFG should be a welcome addition to your setup. If you don't currently shoot with this grip/stance, it would be good piece to slap onto your gun and give it a try. Just understand what the AFG is, and isn't. It's just a small part of a system, a system that includes both your weapons and gear and especially yourself. It's not a part to make you a better shooter, it's a part to allow a you as a shooter to work more efficiently and therefore effectively by removing a friction point and allowing your body and weapon to stop fighting against each other and work together. It's got a specific application and if you try and pidgeonhole it onto another role (like at the back of a rail on an SBR with a bipod, from another thread...sorry, dude) then don't be surprised if the results vary.

So, in summary: Good design and construction, as expected, though I'm still a little puzzled on the Larue rail issues. A great match to a long-railed carbine, but kind of self-defeating, ergonomically, on a short-railed gun. At least for me.

Last, but certainly not least, I'd like to thank the folks at Magpul for giving all us the opportunity to try out cool new gear like this. I know between all the forums, they ate the cost of a whole mess of these things (plus shipping!). No doubt anything with "Magpul" stamped on it sells pretty well out of the gate regardless, but trying to get them into peoples hands and encouraging reviews says to me that they really believe these can be an worthwhile addition to your rifle. Thanks. [/brownnose]

CarlosDJackal

01-01-10, 00:59

Unlike most of you, I did not get to test MagPul's AFG for free. :( Bust since I only use a VFG primarily because of my left wrist (I shattered it when I was 12 y.o.); I have been looking for an angles grip.

So as soon as I found someone who had the AFG in stock (DSG Arms), I ordered two and put thes to the test today.

I installed the first on on my Subgun which is a CMMG 7.3" upper on my F/A Converted SP1. In semi-auto, even with this short a barrel, I found that the AFG helps me drive the muzzle between targets better.

But when I switched the subgun to the "happy" setting; I found that it did not provide me with the same control as a VFG. However, in semi-auto, regardless if I was shooting the 9mm or the .223/5.56mm it was very controllable.

The only issue I have is when I tried to install it onto two of my carbines. I could not install it onto my carbine that had a Midwest Industries 2-piece forestock and my LWRCI M6A1, the sling swivel prevented its installation on the rail (see images below).

http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w169/CarlosDJackal/AFGIssues2-1.jpg

What I also observed is that the AFG seems to work better with carbines that has a mid-length gas system. I also suspect that it will be as effective on rifles.

However,while I still need to run drills with it to get a better idea of its utiltity, I am impressed with the increase control the AFG provides. I'll re-post after I use it some more.

CoryCop25

01-02-10, 13:19

I ordered an AFG from Brownell's the other day. It should be sitting on my porch when I get home from Florida tomorrow.

BushmasterFanBoy

01-02-10, 15:47

snip

Thanks a BUNCH for that post. Quite informative. I've ordered mine from AIM, and after I sandpaper it to fit my LT rail, I'll post a writeup/pics here. :D

SWATcop556

01-02-10, 23:45

For the longest time I've been going back and forth on using a Vertical Grip (VG) and not using one. I found that using a VG I felt I had a better support of the rifle and my arms did not seem to wear out on me as fast but running without one I had much more control over the rifle and could "drive" it better. The angle my wrist was held at was the problem with not using a VG.

I then (as many others did) adopted the "thumb-break" method and began to run a VG again.

This is a pic of my SBR that I use for SWAT:
http://i845.photobucket.com/albums/ab12/SWATcop1911/AFG/IMG_1573.jpg

This is a pic of my BCM Midlength I use for uniformed patrol:
http://i845.photobucket.com/albums/ab12/SWATcop1911/AFG/IMG_1586.jpg

Both rifles I utilized the thumb-break method and I found that my times were dropping, my groups were tighter, I was faster on target, and I had more control over muzzle rise and the rifle in general. The best part was that I was not near as worn out at the end of a shooting session, training, or call-out. I felt this technique was "as good as it gets" for me.

Upon the release of the AFG I decided to give it a go and see if it could improve on the thumb-break method. I read the theory behind its design and felt that it was well thought out and not just re-inventing the wheel. I also am a self-professed drinker of the Magpul koolaid (as you can see by my rifle setup). I ordered mine from DSG with the LEO/Mil discount.

I had already read about issues of running the AFG with the Larue rail so I was prepared and had some sandpaper on-hand. I used 60, 140, and 320.

Now, everyone has seen the pics of the AFG that have been posted and have seen the "wings" that stick off to the side which is causing the interference. They can be seen here along the very top of the grip.

http://www.magpul.com/pdfs/AFGNewsfeed.pdf

I started with the coarse (60) and worked my way down to the extra fine (320) and in about 15 minutes I had removed the wings and smoothed the surface down.

http://i845.photobucket.com/albums/ab12/SWATcop1911/AFG/IMG_1575.jpg

http://i845.photobucket.com/albums/ab12/SWATcop1911/AFG/IMG_1579.jpg

http://i845.photobucket.com/albums/ab12/SWATcop1911/AFG/IMG_1580.jpg

http://i845.photobucket.com/albums/ab12/SWATcop1911/AFG/IMG_1578.jpg

I was then able to slide the AFG onto the Larue rails on both of my rifles without having to remove the XTM panels on the 3 and 9 o'clock rails. It was still a very tight fit so a little tapping on the front using standard hammer nudged it right into place.

http://i845.photobucket.com/albums/ab12/SWATcop1911/AFG/IMG_1581.jpg

http://i845.photobucket.com/albums/ab12/SWATcop1911/AFG/IMG_1582.jpg
(photos taken before screw was re-installed)

I then took the rifle to SWAT training and ran it through several rifle stages and used it in the shoot house. (Sorry, no-live action shots per policy) All total about 1000 rounds were fired through the rifle between me and team members.

I then returned home and installed it on the midlength with the 9.0 rail. I realized that I was going to have to heavily modify the AFG to run the X300 in its normal place so I chose to remove the light for the shooting session, as seen here:

http://i845.photobucket.com/albums/ab12/SWATcop1911/AFG/IMG_1588.jpg

I fired around 300 rounds on my own time using the midlength running several drills from barricades to shooting on the move.

CONCLUSION: I actually prefer the standard VG to the AFG. I prefer the 90 degree grip angle using the thumb-break method. I feel I can pull the rifle into my shoulder and have better control over the muzzle.

The AFG grip angle was too shallow for me and I had a hard time with my hand sliding towards the receiver as I moved from target to target. The surface was also WAY to slick even with the A2 finger notch insert. When transitioning from left to right I actually felt the AFG interfered with getting a positive grip on the forend. With training time on the AFG I'm sure this problem would be less of an issue. Just one more reason you should train with your gear before you jump off into the deep end. :cool:

I would like to see a more textured surface and a more pronounced ridge at the bottom to keep the hand in place. I wear gloves for SWAT and patrol and found that I had even less control than with bare hands. I know a lot of people say you shouldn't need to wear gloves but I feel they are necessary. Protecting my hands is a top priority, even though I prefer to shot without gloves.

I'm going to move the AFG to a training rifle and I'll continue to run it in competitions and see if I warm up to it but I'm not selling off my FUG's any time soon. For $35 it is well worth trying and seeing if it is something you are going to use and I'll still use mine. Who knows, down the road I might convert over to the AFG but for me, that time is not now.

CoryCop25

01-03-10, 20:03

I got home from Florida today around 2:00 and BEHOLD! There was a tiny package in my mail box from Brownell's ($31.00 shipped with LE discount) I drove strait through (18 hours) so I was not about to attempt to go to the range today on no sleep. I did, however; run some dry drills in the house with my wife looking at me and rolling her eyes as she was sitting on the couch, doing her homework.

Let's get the negatives out of the way first..... STIPPLING IS A MUST! I find it way too slick. I have about 6 cubic yards of grip tape on my duty G-22 and I am slowly sanding the plastic off of my seatbelt release in my cruiser. I will most likely grip tape the AFG or dig out the wood burning iron.
Another issue that I quickly picked out was the fact that for some reason, with the AFG, I am not puling the stock into my shoulder tightly. Maybe I just need a bit more practice and that will correct itself with live fire.
Both of these issues were pointed out by other posters but the next one I didn't see. I did a few transition to weak hand drills and what I found was that because my light (Pentagon Duolight) is at the 3 O'clock position, I cannot grab the AFG with my right hand when transitioning to my left shoulder. The light is directly over spot where I would place my hand. Because I am short (509) and a carbine rail is enough rail for me to reach, the fact that the light is in the way would lead me to believe that a longer rail would be the better option with the AFG. I am ordering a Daniel Defense Middy barrel and 12 inch lite rail this week and the AFG will work better on this setup with a G2 in a VTAC offset light mount. This leads to the final negative which is that the new build is in FDE and the AFGs are only available in black. So if the very nice guys at Magpul wanna test out the AFG in FDE since I missed the first run, I would kindly forward my information! :D

On to the positives... I found it very comfortable to hold and to control. I installed the AFG on my rail without tightening it and it seemed to slide right into place where I felt it was comfortable for me. The finger step has no effect on comfort for me whatsoever. I left it on and could care less if it was there or not. The front hand/finger stop could use another quarter inch, just for piece of mind. While doing reloading drills and snapping up from the ready, my support hand very naturally went right into position on the AFG. I was actually surprised that I was coming to the ready and forgetting I had a new piece of equipment on my rifle. I did notice that I was ever so slightly canting my rifle counter clockwise. I cant my pistols the same way though so it doesn't bother me at all. I was using a Knight"s VFG and my pressure switch for my light was attached to the VFG. I moved the pressure switch to the top of the rail at about 12:30 and I can activate the light comfortably and it is actually in a better position IMHO because it will now be harder to accidentally activate the light. What I like the most about the AFG is that it lessens the signature of my rifle significantly from the VFG. The Pentagon light is pretty bulky on the right side and with the AFG attached, it seems to streamline the look of the rifle which is a postitve when it comes to slicing the pie.
Well, that was my $.02 on the AFG without using live ammunition yet. I have no idea when my schedule will permit me to get to the range but it will be within a week. Great job MAGPUL on another fine piece of kit. I will be vicioulsy hunting another AFG in FDE!

PRGGodfather

01-07-10, 14:50

Looks like people have reviewed this pretty thoroughly, so there isn't anything to add, but for the record, here is a summary of my comments:

In a nutshell:

Carbine length rails too short to mount flashlight on same rail
Works better on middy, but flashlight mounting solutions for both middy and carbine required use of an FSB 1913 mount (all my rifles have fixed FSBs), which worked well
Texture is a little smooth and could use more aggressive stippling
Shelf insert is preferred, to prevent sliding
Control was excellent at this grip angle
Finish was excellent and mounted to my DD Omega rails with no tapping
Could be a little more streamlined to accommodate more rail brands and panels

As intended, a good piece of kit. It may not be for everyone, but the concept is definitely a good direction and the AFG is reasonably useful as built. Most folks using it will likely make no modifications in its current incarnation.

glocktogo

01-07-10, 15:25

Most people are pointing out that it doesn't work well on a 7" rail. But neither does a VFG placed at the end of the rail. There's nothing to grip but stuff that gets hot forward of the rail.

I put one on the 7" Omega on my 6933. For me, it positions my hand better than it otherwise would without it. It puts my thumb directly behind the FSB and with a MI FSB rail, places the flashlight switch about as well as can be at the 11:00 position. It also allows me to put the forward part of my hand beyond the rail without getting too close to the barrel.

Obviously with a longer barrel I'd prefer a longer forend. Yes it does work better on my Noveske Switchblock Low Pro 14.5". But if you have a short rail, I wouldn't dismiss it as an option. JMO, YMMV

Go4broke

01-07-10, 16:10

BushmasterFanBoy

01-07-10, 18:19

Ok, here's my thoughts so far, based on absolutely nothing but dryfire.

I like the concept, but I'm not too sure about the implementation. What the hell does that mean? Well, I like the idea of a grip that fits the realm between a stubby VFG and a handstop, because this is precisely how I grip my VFG's. But I'm not sure that the AFG as it stands now is the piece of kit to do it.

Several things strike me first. This is designed for the high-hold shooting that Magpul Dynamics is known for advocating. I'm not even sure how this grip would work if one weren't using the parallel-to-bore position with the support elbow, which, thankfully is how I've been shooting for the last 10 months or so.

IMHO, this is great. Products that cater to the core of the tactical shooting community are always welcome, especially ones that make very good use of a particular technique. I really admire what Magpul/Magpul Dynamics have done with the BAD, AFG, etc. Travis and Chris have solid ideas about training and introducing new products that follow with those ideas produces a synergy that can only benefit the user.

I thought upon first seeing it that I would immediately swap for the A1 smooth strap and ditch the A2, well, I did, and I think it turned me off to the grip before I had given it a chance. I remembered reading a post of Travis's on TOS where he remarked about the ability to flip the A2 nub around various directions. Well, me, with no AFG in hand at the time, had thought "whoopty do, what will flipping around the tumor do?" Now, with the AFG in front of me sporting my arch-nemisis, the finger bossing, tumor like A2 nub, I can tell you this: TRY THE A2 NUB! If you think you don't like it, flip it around. Travis's post made so much sense in light of this fact, and it's incredibly how well thought out the nub actually is.

The nub serves a purpose to index your hand. Well, on an A2 pistol grip, its useless, since it "tells" you to grip much too low, and no one likes being told by their gun how the hell they should grip it. With the A2 nub on the AFG, its quite helpful in a couple of ways. One, it provides a superb index point. When using something like the AFG, where its very technique-sensitive, it pays to have a precise index position on the grip. And two, it also provides an additional point of rearward pull. Something of note, is that flipping the nub around changes each of these features drastically. Try which way you like best.

The A1 strap is going in the parts drawer for now. :D

As my timer is currently still with PACT for service, I can't give you any concrete times, but I don't notice a difference anyways, and it wouldn't be fair at this point with my limited experience with the AFG.

I also noticed a slightly increased steadiness in the gun, which is very unusual for a grip style that mitigates recoil primarily. I can't tell at this point whether its simply me spending enough time with the gun to get accustomed to the weight, or if its the grip taking a load off my arm.

So, what didn't I like? First off, I had to file down the darn thing to fit it to my rail with XTM panels! ;) But that's not a big issue, as it can be fixed in later runs or even by an end user with about 5 minutes on their hands. My main complaint is actually so subjective, that I hardly even feel that it should register as a complaint.

What really bothers me is the portion of the grip behind the interchangeable panel. I can't put my finger on it, but it seems slightly out of place. Maybe its too small, and my ring and pinkie fingers want to wrap around it, or maybe its too big, and they should wrap around it. Maybe its angled incorrectly to my wrist, who knows. Maybe (and this is likely) I just haven't spent enough time with the darn thing yet. ;)

Either way, I'd like to applaud the fine folks at Magpul for introducing another of their new Theory Based Products.

And although I didn't get mine for free for T&E, I still feel obligated to share some pics with you guys.

My carbine with AFG

http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd283/Burke888/DSC_6560.jpg

Note the newly replaced A2 nub

http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd283/Burke888/DSC_6562.jpg

Here's my grip method

http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd283/Burke888/DSC_6565.jpg

Also from another angle

http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd283/Burke888/DSC_6572.jpg

And a shot of light activation.

http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd283/Burke888/DSC_6568.jpg

Due to my 11oclock mount, I have to shift my hand slightly, and the AFG being a very specific grip, I'm not sure how well this will continue to work, but I've tried all other solutions with this particular mount.

John Hearne

01-07-10, 21:48

How does the AFG work with an X300 mounted at 12:00?

agr1279

01-07-10, 22:08

I finally got a chance to try the AFG out. As previous posters have stated it is a very well thought out design. I did not give it a hard workout due to time considerations. My work gun is basically a RRA Government model with a Surefire rail. Normally set up is a Surefire 951 light mounted under the front sight base as far forward as I can get it. Right in front of the magwell I've installed a Knights VFG. I like the light under the barrel which gives me a narrow weapon platform and less likely to get caught on anything.

I ended up mounting the AFG as far forward as I could. I did not like it due to it being too close. I would have liked to have tried it on mid or full length rail. I didn't get an pictures due to not having access to a camera at the time.

There were two other firearms instructor who also tried it. They had the same thoughts.

Dan

htxred

01-13-10, 07:45

i received my copy a few weeks ago and threw it on the sr-15 and ran 500 rnds through it in one day. i am very pleased with the product and my wrist is too.

Before getting the afg, i didnt run any sort of VFG on my rifle. i've tried them all, tango stubby, larue FUG, kac handstop, etc. and never felt comfortable with any of them. my wrist just seem to break unnaturally and always felt an extreme about of strain on the bottom. i've always been a fan of a very aggressive forward support grip and usually keep my thumb high above the bbl pointing down range. this caused for a very unnaturally break in my wrist and would always leave it sore after a 500+ rnd session.

at first the AFG did the exact same thing, but i changed up the way i held the rifle. instead of creating a re-ward pull of the rifle into my chest, i sort of just held the rifle out infront of me. i just the left hand to sort of support the "wobble" of the muzzle and discontinued pulling it into my chest. in doing so, it relieved some of the strain from my wrist. i also started to wrap my thumb around the rail to where it basically almost sits on top of the rifle. if my thumb is not there, its sitting inbetween the left rail and top rail (gets hot though). this felt a lot more natural for me and i was also able to get on/transition to target quicker.

AFG is staying on my rifle.

ColdDeadHands

01-15-10, 06:48

I received my AFG yesterday and put it on my LMT Carbine Length Rail and have to say it really belongs on 9" + rails. After I was done playing around with it I installed it on my Noveske 10" rail but couldn't really fondle it since my Noveske is kinda in pieces at the moment. Will update after I get it fixed this weekend.

og556

01-15-10, 19:00

After I got the AFG I ran about 200 rounds through my N4 Recce and for some reason when I tried to pull my rifle against my shoulder during firing drills I had trouble with my fingers slipping even with the finger groove.

The only improvement besides a more aggressive texture would be more material on the area which my support hand pinky rests.

CarlosDJackal

01-15-10, 21:31

I finally got to shoot my 12.7" LWRCI M6A3 with the AFG installed. My previous test was shooting the same rifle with the Ceiner .22LR conversion kit. This is the first time I was able to shoot actual .223 ammo (Wolf).

I have been using a Larue FUG in the stubby configuration and wanted to try the AFG because of its lower profile. I use a VFG because I had shattered my left wrist when I was 12-years old and supporting a rifle for an extended length of time hurts my wrist.

Unfortunately, I had the same issue with teh AFG. My wrist not only started hurting but it also started locking up after 2 magazines (damned arthritis). So I took it off and reinstalled the stubby FUG.

With my childhood injury this accessory just does not work for me. I still like the concept and kudos for Magpul for once again trying something new.

I have introduced two of my shooting buddies to it and they seem to like it. We'll have to see how they end up liking it in the long-term.

Armati

01-15-10, 23:40

Just a thought...

Have you considered making a tac light in this form factor? Something along the lines of the Surefire foregrips for the MP5.

steeltoe

01-19-10, 20:23

I dig it. A lot. One thing I noticed is the nub really helps, with a high grip it's perfect. If I regress to holding it like a hunting rifle it puts the nub in the wrong place. Solution; don't grip it like a hunting rifle. When I grip it like my pistol support hand it works. Well worth the money I think. (Don't care for the two different screw heads either, but that's been said).

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d65/steeltoe73/IMG_0064-1.jpg

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d65/steeltoe73/IMG_0066-1.jpg

Sierrahotel83

01-19-10, 21:42

Steeltoe How do you like the Troy MRF-CX? I was thinking about putting them on my rifle at some point.

Sierrahotel83

01-19-10, 21:50

I recently got an AFG at a gunshow... I really like it but haven't got to shoot it... I decided that it wasn't grippy enough so I took a soldering Iron to it... now it is much better

http://i459.photobucket.com/albums/qq311/shrockster/100_0756.jpg

http://i459.photobucket.com/albums/qq311/shrockster/100_0757.jpg

http://i459.photobucket.com/albums/qq311/shrockster/100_0758.jpg

http://i459.photobucket.com/albums/qq311/shrockster/100_0759.jpg

the only thing I do not like has nothing to do with the AFG but with my rifle, I wish it had longer handguards.

steeltoe

01-20-10, 00:02

The MRF-CX is probably my favorite add on. Easy as pie to install. That's a great stippling job I'm toying with the idea. I imagine with gloves the standard plastic would be near impossible to hold.

Sierrahotel83

01-20-10, 07:34

I would say so but let me say that the stippling was a pain to do, it took a steady hand and about an hour and a half:cool:

steeltoe

01-20-10, 21:29

Interestingly enough the AFG Travis is showing off at SHOT is also hand stippled! There is video on arf com.

yellowthunder

01-23-10, 21:35

Haven't seen any pics of the VFG on the Vltor CASV so I thought to post some pics.

http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u135/yellowthunders/IMG_1126.jpg
http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u135/yellowthunders/IMG_1128.jpg
http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u135/yellowthunders/IMG_1130.jpg
http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u135/yellowthunders/IMG_1140.jpg
http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u135/yellowthunders/IMG_1141.jpg

I was worried that I might have to trim down the VFG due to the CASV's profile, but there was no problems at all. I have small hands so I was concerned about that too, but again no problem either. Like many have said, I also think some stippling or grip tape would be great. I haven't been to the range yet but I'm looking forward to testing it out. The VFG is way better than a VFG but then what do I know? I'm just a mall ninja :D

bradb55

01-23-10, 22:07

http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u135/yellowthunders/IMG_1126.jpg
http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u135/yellowthunders/IMG_1128.jpg
http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u135/yellowthunders/IMG_1130.jpg
http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u135/yellowthunders/IMG_1140.jpg
http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u135/yellowthunders/IMG_1141.jpg

:D

Can we get some close ups of that lower? That is a Mega lower right?

The AFG on the CASV looks good.

yellowthunder

01-23-10, 22:10

Can we get some close ups of that lower? That is a Mega lower right?

The AFG on the CASV looks good.

Good eye! PM sent, don't want to go far off topic here unless others want to see a close up

pittbull

01-27-10, 11:15

OK. So after all that reading, my question has not been answered.

Exactly how many slots does the AFG take up?

CoryCop25

01-27-10, 11:22

OK. So after all that reading, my question has not been answered.

Exactly how many slots does the AFG take up?

13 plus the beefy one at the end of the rail. that's counting the raised sections. If your rail is numbered, it will take up 13 numbers.

pittbull

01-27-10, 11:26

13 plus the beefy one at the end of the rail. that's counting the raised sections. If your rail is numbered, it will take up 13 numbers.

Ask and ye shall receive. Thank you Cory.

CoryCop25

01-27-10, 11:56

Ask and ye shall receive. Thank you Cory.

No sweat! I just happened to be installing one on my new 12 inch DD Lite rail as I was perusing the threads!

two_ton_anchor

01-29-10, 17:41

I placed the AFG and UTG rail on yesterday (I had the MOE handguard but didn't really dig it). Really like this grip...I've since moved it up a bit more to accomodate my monkey arms. Locks in really well and has a lemon-fresh scent that makes my wife love me more and my kids listen. Also makes coffee in the FDE version...so I hear.

Pictures as soon as my computer quits being a full retard.

HeavyDuty

02-06-10, 17:57

Mine came in a few weeks ago from AIM, but I've been busy enough that I didn't have time to do anything with it until today.

The Guinea pig I'm using for AFG experimentation is my 9mm carbine that wears a 13" TRX Extreme rail. I've never tried a VFG on this one, but was considering a handstop of some kind when the AFG was announced.

I mounted a rail section and have been messing with positioning. I'm having a hard time figuring out where it feels best - right now the front is just shy of 11" out, and I think this works. I'll keep playing with it.

I'm not sure how the ergonomics are going to work for me, though. Gripping the AFG with my thumb over the top of the rail is putting a lot of tension on the outside of my wrist. I'll play with it some more, but it may not work for me. It's a nicely made piece of kit, though!

One thing I'm playing with is forefinger position. For some reason wrapping my forefinger around the front of the tab works slightly better than keeping all my finders on the AFG. In this case there's rail in front of the AFG, but I'm not sure I want to get used to doing this in case I chose to adopt these and put one on a shorter rail.

RetreatHell

02-06-10, 21:16

One thing I'm playing with is forefinger position. For some reason wrapping my forefinger around the front of the tab works slightly better than keeping all my finders on the AFG. In this case there's rail in front of the AFG, but I'm not sure I want to get used to doing this in case I chose to adopt these and put one on a shorter rail.

I was doing this too and was unsure about the AFG because of this when using my friend's AFG on his carbine. When I got my own AFG and installed it on my 11.5" SBR with KAC URX II rail, I flipped the A2 nub around which provided more room so that my index finger now fits VERY comfortably in there alongside my other two fingers.

Don't know if you have tried yours with flipping the A2 nub around, but mine now works very well since I've done that.... and the stippling that I did also made it much more kick ass too!

-Paul

HeavyDuty

02-06-10, 22:14

I'll give that a try - thanks!

keller

02-18-10, 19:03

Running one on a 16" upper with 13" Larue Rail. I like it very much and place it further down the rail then I do with a traditional grip.

djegators

03-15-10, 14:45

Was reading this thread, and was curious if there was an intended placement for the AFG. I just got one, and am still experimenting with where I like it, and so far (without actually shooting), it seems to go better all th way forward. I am tall and have longer arms, so maybe that is way. I like the comfort so far, holding it similar to how I would a rifle with no grip at all. Thanks for any feedback.

PS: this is for a Noveske Recce Low Pro.