View Full Version : Driving and Carrying
Hey guys I have come for some advice on a little problem I am having. I finally got my CPL and have a M&P9c that I carry in a desantis speed scabbard. I find it
really comfortable but when I am driving I can't draw it fast enough. I was just wondering what you all do when your in your cars. Do i need to get another holster or what?
The Dumb Gun Collector
12-18-09, 18:55
Guatemalan carry
shittercrewchief
12-18-09, 19:05
I Put it on the passenger seat.
I wear my gun in my holster on my hip.
Hey thanks for the responses. I don't really want to have my gun just sitting out just in case there is an accident, and to those
that wear on the hip, are you wearing strong side or more of a appendix? I was trying with just strong side but its too slow if I'm about to be jacked or something.
i carry a lot in a maxpedition versipak....even when I don't the bag is in my car...
for car carry I put the bag between my legs and it has perfectly easy access and is very very comfortable
also, as a complete aside, I was in a rollover accident this past summer where I ended up on my roof (bad accident, suburban rolled 1.5 times)...
anyway...when I had to leave the vehicle (by crawling out the back window that had shattered, all I had to do was grab the bag and I had my CCW, wallet, cellphone, etc etc....ever since then i keep that bag with me, with the essentials, always....
NMBigfoot02
12-18-09, 20:58
Guatemalan carry
:confused:
Could you explain please?
I wear it normally and lock my doors.
I have a dealt with this and the only genuinely practical answer that works "for me" is a 2nd gun in the truck. I prefer a revolver that stays in the truck and load it with jacketed soft points. (it doubles as a back country gun which I need regularly) The jacketed soft points also have some punch to them if having to shoot at a vehicle or a bear:eek: Not perfect, but works for me.
So, I use a revolver to fight my way to my auto;)
rrpederson
12-18-09, 21:54
my preferred method is probably not very practical for some people. i take the weapon out of the holster and place under my right leg. i do that if, and only if, my clothing cant be pulled out of the way to gain access to it quickly. i dont have much of a problem there and i can usually keep it holstered. i dont recommend anyone else doing this because like someone else said, where will the gun end up in an accident? im just taking the risk.
In my assigned vehicle I bolted a Serpa holster to the trim under the steering wheel. It is easy and the spare Glock is directly under the wheel. When I remove the holster the small holes are not visible. The Serpa holds the Glock securely, and the steering wheel conceals it.
Jay Cunningham
12-18-09, 22:45
AIWB is pretty good for sitting in the driver's seat.
In my assigned vehicle I bolted a Serpa holster to the trim under the steering wheel. It is easy and the spare Glock is directly under the wheel. When I remove the holster the small holes are not visible. The Serpa holds the Glock securely, and the steering wheel conceals it.
Now that's something I think I could do. Thats a pretty good idea. Since I have a small suv with a collapsible center console, I was thinking of bolting a holster to the seat on my strong side but I think it would be to visible when not in use. I really have to consider what you do though, hmmm.....
Cruncher Block
12-18-09, 22:47
While far from being in a position to give advice, I have attended a training course in which defensive tactics in/around vehicles were covered.
One lesson I took away from the class was, "A V6 beats a 9mm ten times out of ten."
In other words, the car itself is probably a more effective weapon than the handgun. If I take care to lock my doors and leave myself space when stopped, the most effective solution might be to duck, yank the wheel, and stomp on the gas.
If forced to shoot out of the car, I found a hip holster can be easily accessed after releasing the seatbelt. If I'm pinned in by my surroundings, I might want to be able to leave the car anyway.
If it's just me in the car, I'm willing to give up the car if I judge it will get me out of the situation.
While far from being in a position to give advice, I have attended a training course in which defensive tactics in/around vehicles were covered.
One lesson I took away from the class was, "A V6 beats a 9mm ten times out of ten."
In other words, the car itself is probably a more effective weapon than the handgun. If I take care to lock my doors and leave myself space when stopped, the most effective solution might be to duck, yank the wheel, and stomp on the gas.
If forced to shoot out of the car, I found a hip holster can be easily accessed after releasing the seatbelt. If I'm pinned in by my surroundings, I might want to be able to leave the car anyway.
If it's just me in the car, I'm willing to give up the car if I judge it will get me out of the situation.
I have to agree with you 100% on this one. I am more or less trying to be ready for a situation where fleeing is not an option and just giving up the car wont be enough. I know this most likely wont happen but I want to be as prepared in my car as I am in my home.
Heavy Metal
12-18-09, 23:33
While far from being in a position to give advice, I have attended a training course in which defensive tactics in/around vehicles were covered.
One lesson I took away from the class was, "A V6 beats a 9mm ten times out of ten."
In other words, the car itself is probably a more effective weapon than the handgun. If I take care to lock my doors and leave myself space when stopped, the most effective solution might be to duck, yank the wheel, and stomp on the gas.
If forced to shoot out of the car, I found a hip holster can be easily accessed after releasing the seatbelt. If I'm pinned in by my surroundings, I might want to be able to leave the car anyway.
If it's just me in the car, I'm willing to give up the car if I judge it will get me out of the situation.
At work they teach us to point he vehicle back toward the road before getting out and leave a set of keys in the ignition and lock the door with the remote on the other set for a qucik egress if things turn sour.
I've driven literally 10 hours straight using both a traditional behind-the-hip IWB and an appendix IWB, in a sports sedan with less than forgiving seats. With the right holster, it shouldn't be uncomfortable. You may feel it, but it shouldn't distract or cause pain.
Between the two, AIWB is definitely the more comfortable method as well as being faster on the draw. But as someone has already mentioned, there are few reasons most of us would draw a gun from the driver's seat. Using your ~2ton vehicle either for escape or attack is often going to be the smarter move.
I'm personally opposed to off-body carry in the car, especially in special compartments or bolted-on holsters, etc. If you need to leave the vehicle in an emergency that doesn't immediately indicate the need for force, you may leave the weapon behind. Or, you may not have the time/ability to secret the gun on your person as you exit the vehicle, meaning you've announced to the world the presence of a firearm. In the event of an accident, the pistol might get moved, trapped, or even damaged.
Most of the time i carry IWB but depending where I am at and what time it is I will lay it under my right leg
I'm personally opposed to off-body carry in the car, especially in special compartments or bolted-on holsters, etc. If you need to leave the vehicle in an emergency that doesn't immediately indicate the need for force, you may leave the weapon behind. Or, you may not have the time/ability to secret the gun on your person as you exit the vehicle, meaning you've announced to the world the presence of a firearm. In the event of an accident, the pistol might get moved, trapped, or even damaged.
Sound advice there!
There's some products on the market such as:
The < SafePacker (http://store.thewilderness.com/index.php?cPath=51) > sold by The Wilderness
The < Kingston (http://www.desantisholster.com/storefrontB2CWEB/simplesearch.do?action=process_simple_search) > by DeSantis Holster & Leather Goods
The < Seat Buddy (http://www.securityprousa.com/vesehocarseh.html) > by SecurityProUSA
Hope you find what you're looking for and be Safe! :cool:
Hey thanks for the input everyone. I think I'm just gonna have to find an on the body holster that I can easily draw from. All the reasons for keeping it on your person are sound, I hate to get rid of my speed scabbard but I don't think it's going to work.
John_Wayne777
12-19-09, 10:26
I Put it on the passenger seat.
The only problem with that is if you hit your brakes, your blaster goes flying around in the compartment. That's unpleasant...but on a weapon with a ~ 5.5 pound short travel trigger and no manual safety it can be really dangerous too. IIRC during the FBI shootout one of the agents drew his weapon before the stop to have it ready to go...and then when they stopped to trap Plat and Mattix his weapon went flying and he couldn't find it before the fireworks started.
I'm a strong believer in leaving it in the holster because at least that way I know where it is.
I generally carry IWB and I can usually easily access the weapon just by leaning forward to get some room between me and the back of the car seat. It's not the quickest thing in the world...but my primary means of self defense is the Charger, not my 9mm.
Handguns carried for defensive purposes should be carried attached to your person. Period. Off-body, man-purse, center console carry should be reserved for stored guns, or second, third, fourth BUGs.
Having seen umpteen dozen car crashes, you should not ever count on anything being accessible to you post-crash.
Be reminded that abductors, robbers, car jackers, road ragers, etc may deliberately use a MVC to startle you or disable your vehicle prior to an attack.
Formal training in seated and exceptional weapon presentations is very helpful. Training in defensive techniques using and from within a vehicle is especially so.
Traditional strong side carry, AIWB, crossdraw, ankle, are all vehicle compatible.
Alpha Sierra
12-19-09, 13:01
My normal method of carry (IWB or OWB at 3:30 RH side) leaves me enough room to get my gun while seated if I needed to.
The major hindrance is not where the holster is, nor the seatbelt itself, but the way the seatbelt pinches the covering garment. So when I buckle up I move my shirt out from under the seatbelt and set it so it is free to move should I need a pistol.
About the only time a draw from a seat might be needed in my view is to thwart someone trying to get into your car and you have no room to maneuver. Besides that, my truck weighs 5500 lbs and my wife's car right around 4000. Either one will either get me out of dodge or deliver a telling blow that no handgun could ever hope to match.
decodeddiesel
12-19-09, 17:41
I've driven literally 10 hours straight using both a traditional behind-the-hip IWB and an appendix IWB, in a sports sedan with less than forgiving seats. With the right holster, it shouldn't be uncomfortable. You may feel it, but it shouldn't distract or cause pain.
Agreed. I recently drove a 1400 mile in 2 days road trip with a full size M&P45 in a Comptac MTAC at 3 o'clock. This was in my STi which has high bolstered racing seats.
Did I know it was there? Of course.
Was it bothersome or distracting in the least? Nope. It was comfortable and stayed concealed under my t-shirt or light leather jacket.
To be honest my ass falling asleep from the lack of blood flow from the hard racing seat was the worst aspect of the whole trip.
The Dumb Gun Collector
12-19-09, 18:04
NM,
Guatemalan carry
Could you explain please?
That is what Ken Hackathorn calls tucking it under your right leg. I carry my P7 and 1911s like this. I wouldn't carry my Glock or Kahr that way (call me paranoid).
It is a pretty handy way to carry. It is very easily accessed in an emergency. And, it isn't likely to be lost in an accident.
That said, I usually just leave it IWB.
i tend to carry IWB or OWB just ahead of my hip, 2:45 or 2:30.
i find that's not hard to get at in the car.
also, lock your doors, it'll buy you a little time to get your gun ;)
NMBigfoot02
12-19-09, 20:01
NM,
That is what Ken Hackathorn calls tucking it under your right leg. I carry my P7 and 1911s like this. I wouldn't carry my Glock or Kahr that way (call me paranoid).
It is a pretty handy way to carry. It is very easily accessed in an emergency. And, it isn't likely to be lost in an accident.
That said, I usually just leave it IWB.
Interesting. Thanks for the info.
gtmtnbiker98
12-19-09, 21:00
I have also worried about this. I feel as if I am in a coffin when in the cruiser. But we are not permitted to have unsecured weapons in the vehicle.
For off-duty, I simply carry IWB. A lot off good ideas here, just be sure to follow your local laws.
Food for thought . . .
At least 1 and perhaps 2 of the agents in FBI's Miami gunfight lost their handguns due to taking them out of holsters just prior to the TC that marked the start of the fight.
I drove 3300 miles this summer on a 3 week vacation with a G19/X300 in a RCS holster carried at 4 oclock and had no difficulties whatsoever. This has become my preferred CCW setup.
Sound advice there!
There's some products on the market such as:
The < SafePacker (http://store.thewilderness.com/index.php?cPath=51) > sold by The Wilderness
The < Kingston (http://www.desantisholster.com/storefrontB2CWEB/simplesearch.do?action=process_simple_search) > by DeSantis Holster & Leather Goods
The < Seat Buddy (http://www.securityprousa.com/vesehocarseh.html) > by SecurityProUSA
Hope you find what you're looking for and be Safe! :cool:
I'll add one more to his list.
fobus universal mount (http://www.fobusholster.com/products/UNIVERSAL_HOME_VEHICLE_MOUNT-2641-61.html)
that being said, my car and I are not inseparable which is why I dont' take it off when I get in the car. As Todd has pointed out before, a sports care doing 150mph is a better man stopper than a 50bmg.
My driving experience: 26 straight hours, ~1900 miles, Sig P226 in a CompTac C-tac at 4 o'clock in a BMW M3. (actually did this twice in a week.)
The worst part of the trip was the smell when we arrived.
Alpha Sierra
12-20-09, 07:47
My driving experience: 26 straight hours
Without rest?
decodeddiesel
12-20-09, 08:59
I think the underlying theme of this thread is that a high quality, well designed holster is worth every cent you may pay and more.
Dave Berryhill
12-20-09, 09:52
I've driven literally 10 hours straight using both a traditional behind-the-hip IWB and an appendix IWB, in a sports sedan with less than forgiving seats. With the right holster, it shouldn't be uncomfortable. You may feel it, but it shouldn't distract or cause pain....
I'm good for about 10 minutes of sitting on a behind-the-hip IWB in most car seats due to chronic lower back pain from injuries I received as a cop so I've stopped carrying that way. The recent thread on appendix IWB carry was very interesting and I've got to find a comfortable holster to carry that way.
When you carry AIWB and are seated, do you find that the muzzle pushes on your thigh or is it canted more towards your crotch?
DB -- Sorry to hear about the injury. That sucks.
A good AIWB holster shouldn't poke your thigh whether you're seated or standing. The problem is that most AIWB holsters on the market either have way too much material in the area between the trigger guard and the muzzle -- which then hits your thigh -- or they are improperly canted -- causing them either to hit your thigh, compromise concealability, or compromise speed of draw.
The other trick is wearing the AIWB in the proper location. A lot of folks want to wear it around 2 o'clock. It's really much more comfortable and functional worn somewhere between 12 o'clock and 1 o'clock depending on your build. The rounder your gut, the more you'll move it towards 1 o'clock.
gtmtnbiker98
12-20-09, 11:41
DB -- Sorry to hear about the injury. That sucks.
A good AIWB holster shouldn't poke your thigh whether you're seated or standing. The problem is that most AIWB holsters on the market either have way too much material in the area between the trigger guard and the muzzle -- which then hits your thigh -- or they are improperly canted -- causing them either to hit your thigh, compromise concealability, or compromise speed of draw.
The other trick is wearing the AIWB in the proper location. A lot of folks want to wear it around 2 o'clock. It's really much more comfortable and functional worn somewhere between 12 o'clock and 1 o'clock depending on your build. The rounder your gut, the more you'll move it towards 1 o'clock.
My gut rules me out for AIWB.
I think the underlying theme of this thread is that a high quality, well designed holster is worth every cent you may pay and more.
I'm starting to think this is the only way to go. I just need to find the right one. And to gtmtnbiker98, don't feel too bad I'm in the same boat. :rolleyes:
I have a dealt with this and the only genuinely practical answer that works "for me" is a 2nd gun in the truck. I prefer a revolver that stays in the truck and load it with jacketed soft points. (it doubles as a back country gun which I need regularly) The jacketed soft points also have some punch to them if having to shoot at a vehicle or a bear:eek: Not perfect, but works for me.
So, I use a revolver to fight my way to my auto;)
+1.....
AIWB is pretty good for sitting in the driver's seat.
Now I'm no expert and I'm just a civilian, but this mirrors my experience as well..when I used to carry at 4:30 IWB, it was very tedious and difficult to draw the pistol..I've been carrying AWIB for almost a year now, and one can draw from a seated position in the driver's seat in a pretty practicable manner, especially if you are careful to position your seat belt and cover garment for optimal drawing, yet still maintain concealment.
On long trips I loosen my belt a bit and my pistol sits as happy as a piglet in mud in the AWIB position, and very comfortably for me too.
I now carry a G19 so the option of taking the gun out and putting it under my thigh or somewhere else is not an option to me since the gun lacks a manual safety. When I used to carry my USPc, having the gun in half-cock and safety on allowed me to stash it in various positions, including under my thigh, but while this did constitute more versatility, it is obviously more secure to have the gun in a holster on your person.
Some guys do get holsters attached in various areas under the dash etc, but having the gun securely on one's person seems to be a better idea to me anyway, and AWIB offers decent draw speed and good on person security. Just my 2 cents.
I generally carry IWB and I can usually easily access the weapon just by leaning forward to get some room between me and the back of the car seat. It's not the quickest thing in the world...but my primary means of self defense is the Charger, not my 9mm.
THIS.
Don't forget that your vehicle can also serve to defend you. Unless I completely misunderstood what you meant by "Charger".
Regardless, run the f*cker over.
Without rest?
two of us team driving in an M3.
left one morning, arrived the next morning.
and then we did it again 6 days later.
I was tired for a month.
Saw this particular one called < The Comfort Holster (http://www.comfortholster.com/) >
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UROZNnS1BiY
Other than that, don't know nothing else about it.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
My usual drive and CCW is as most already stated, in the holster. In this case, it's the Galco.M7X.Matrix. If I'm not using that particular carry, then it's the SpecGear.TRUSS.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P7oU0eSrjJc
Another CCW holster for driving/sitting that I ran across is the one called < Ross 23S Driving Holster (http://www.ccwsupply.biz/RossM23SPAGE.htm) >. Other than that, I've no experience with said product.
With a Glock at my 4:30 IWB with a cover garment and sometimes a light coat, its a no go without some serious movement on my part to draw it.
MY solution was a galco ankle holster for my Ruger LCR. VERY easy to draw from and quite potent with Gold Dots. I will typically hike my pant let up and rest the cuff over a part of the calf adjustment strap. This way I have very quick access to the holstered weapon, and if I need to get out, all I have to do is release the cuff over the tab thats holding it up and my pant leg covers the rig.
My plan would be to use the LCR yo afford me an opportunity to either:
A) get out of there in the vehicle (preffered)
or
B) fight my way into a position to retrieve my Glock from my IWB
As a side note, that LCR in an ankle rig is amazingly light! I really can forget its there some times.
Works for me, and gave me an excuse to buy another firearm and get more range time as I have to practive with it like I do my primary Glock 19/26's....:D
YMMV
Best of luck!
A good AIWB holster shouldn't poke your thigh whether you're seated or standing. The problem is that most AIWB holsters on the market either have way too much material in the area between the trigger guard and the muzzle -- which then hits your thigh -- or they are improperly canted -- causing them either to hit your thigh, compromise concealability, or compromise speed of draw.
Could you please share a couple of examples of "good" AIWB holsters?
Custom Carry Concepts Looper. Very fast, very comfortable (especially with the leather "heat shield" option), concealable, extremely secure for weapons retention purposes. The only downside is that I've cracked a couple of them after extensive use (tens of thousands of drawstrokes plus daily carry, retention practice, etc.). The current design doesn't fail when it cracks -- there are two thicknesses of kydex in the loop, and only the inner one cracks. I've carried the "half-cracked" Looper for a couple weeks at a time while waiting for a replacement with no worries, but obviously CCC would like to eliminate the issue completely. I've got a new prototype on the way to put through its paces.
Garrity Gunleather has been working with me for more than a year on a leather AIWB design. It's fairly complicated but has a great deal of promise. I'm on the fifth generation prototype right now and I think we've got it. Not sure if a few little tweaks may be necessary or not, but hopefully it will be going into production soon. I've only had the latest proto since Thursday but I've worn it for hours on end without any trouble. I still need to take some >1hr drives and do some live work at the range to get a final opinion.
Hi Todd-
Can you supply a link to that looper apendx holster? I tried a link from the other thread about apendx carry, but the link is dead- just errors out.
Thanks in advance!
Drew
http://www.customcarryconcepts.com/
The Looper link is dead as part of their "we're not taking any orders at present" system. Looks like they're not taking new orders until 20-Feb.
I'm hoping to talk to some other holster companies at the SHOT Show about AIWB. Comp-Tac sent me two AIWB prototypes a while back. Some of my suggestions went into the new "Minotaur Neutral Cant" but what I'm really hoping for is for them to come out with a modified version of the "Two O'Clock" based on some of the things we discussed. I'm just not a fan of the hook-type kydex belt attachments. They're too easily bent or broken (gun and holster come out of your pants during retention struggle).
I place my H&K with holster between my leg and the cosole in my Grand Cherokee. The holster keeps it from trying to slide down between the seats, and it is hiden from veiw from both sides, and incredibley fast to draw.
http://www.customcarryconcepts.com/
The Looper link is dead as part of their "we're not taking any orders at present" system. Looks like they're not taking new orders until 20-Feb.
I'm hoping to talk to some other holster companies at the SHOT Show about AIWB. Comp-Tac sent me two AIWB prototypes a while back. Some of my suggestions went into the new "Minotaur Neutral Cant" but what I'm really hoping for is for them to come out with a modified version of the "Two O'Clock" based on some of the things we discussed. I'm just not a fan of the hook-type kydex belt attachments. They're too easily bent or broken (gun and holster come out of your pants during retention struggle).
I'm a big comp-tac fan, I would like to see something from them, especially w/o the kydex belt loops...
There's another holster I came across from < Andrews Custom Leather (http://andrewsleather.com/) > called the Carjacker Crossdraw pictured below from their website.
http://i987.photobucket.com/albums/ae360/chc_hmc/AndrewsCarjackerCrossdraw.jpg
There's another holster I came across from < Andrews Custom Leather (http://andrewsleather.com/) > called the Carjacker Crossdraw pictured below from their website.
http://i987.photobucket.com/albums/ae360/chc_hmc/AndrewsCarjackerCrossdraw.jpg
Whoops!
Soooooooooo many rules! How can a body be expected to remember them all???
http://andrewsleather.com/carjackerx_c.jpg
I know! Neuter yourself in the front seat of your car!
Alpha Sierra
01-11-10, 18:30
http://andrewsleather.com/carjackerx_c.jpg
WTF? :confused:
Don't drink & drive & draw...
SeriousStudent
01-11-10, 19:30
http://andrewsleather.com/carjackerx_c.jpg
WTF? :confused:
Or how to go from a rooster to a hen, with one simple finger twitch. :eek:
Exactly. . .Fellow's finger's on the trigger already in that picture pose! :confused:
You only put your finger in the trigger guard when engaging your target. Obviously this is what he is doing.
Chris
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