Need some dog advice..

[Belmont31R]

We are taking care of my dad's male Shitsu until he gets back from overseas. We have one other dog in the house (mini Aussie).


Problem is the Shitsu snapping at my 2 twin boys who are 3.5 years old. We try to teach them not to touch this dog but sometimes even if they get close he will snap. Today has been the worse, and he tagged one of my boys on the nose. Didnt break skin. I know they can wear on the dogs poking and touching them so its not entirely the dog. Getting rid of it is not an option right now. It was my mom and dad's dog, and my mom died in August so its the only thing left my dad has, and he is really attached. We only have to wait a few more months until he is home, and will take the dog.


So in the meantime what can I do to curb this? Today as soon as it happened I took the dog, and flipped him on his back holding him down with both hands until he calmed down. He never does anything to me but our kids obviously do not have any dominance over the dog. Our mini Aussie female tries to constantly dominate him by standing over him. Then they get into a fight so there is quite a bit of stress on him.

We've had him for about 3 months now, and its only gotten like this in the past couple of weeks. He was great for the first 2 months at least. Today is the last straw, and Im determined to work this out so he can live here until my dad takes him. Will getting his nuts cut off help? I dont know how to get a 3.5 year old kid to get dominance over the dog.

[SteyrAUG]

Buy a kennel/crate.

When the dog is being a jackass, put him in the crate.

[decodeddiesel]

Buy a kennel/crate.

When the dog is being a jackass, put him in the crate.

This is a great suggestion. Force the dog to get into the kennel and then ignore it, and have your children ignore it for some time until it settles down.

Kennel training has solved a lot of behavior problems for dogs of mine in the past.

[5pins]

You could try a shock caller. Whenever he snaps hit the button.

[loupav]

You could try a shock caller. Whenever he snaps hit the button.

Also an excellent idea. Since that happens instantly, as the dog snaps.

[10MMGary]

Seems to me it would be a better(easier)idea to instruct the little ones not to go face to face with the dog. Crating should never be used as punishment for the dog, it is intended to be the animals sanctuary. If the children are not interacting with the dog it cannot bite them.

[HAMMERDROP]

Keep the dog on a leash guessing your the dominant figure, pop the leash when the dog starts to show any hint of aggression it is important to monitor its body language thats the chink in their armor. And bring him back to a sit/stay.
Or keep the leash under a chair leg you sit on which limits its range. Then if it has run to the end of the leash towards your boys step in front of them and claim them yourself he wont mess with whats not his.
OR
Walk the dog til you crawl home that should do it.
Its all a battle for territory with dogs.

Michael

[cop1211]

Crate the dog until your dad gets back. The behavior will only get worse, since the dog is already showing signs of aggression. Its not worth the risk of serious injury, i.e. getting bit in the eye for your children. The young ones will continue to "play" with the dog.

Try to keep the dog even though crated, away from the kids, so the dogs behavior towards small children will not get any worse than it is.

[FromMyColdDeadHand]

Somebody has to figure out that they are at the bottom of the ladder, and quick.

Hopefully the dog's stress from a new situation and the kids interest in the uniquiness of a new dog will start to wane. I find after awhile little kids and dogs that aren't there own tend to ignore each other. Have the kids feed the dog its dinner.

If it stays an issue, don't hesitate to find somewhere else for the dog, no matter how painful. It isn't worth plastic surgery on your kids face.

Shock collars on the dog and kids with a proximity detector would also solve the problem ;)

[M4Fundi]

Dogs are pack animals and they need to know where they are in the pecking order, unfortunately it thinks its dominant over the kids and you don't have time to work that out, so I think a shock collar is a good idea. The trick with training dogs is to not wait until the opportune moment to do a "correction", but to set up the situation under complete control and so you can time the correction so the dog UNDERSTANDS completely & is not confused thus compounding the problem. To train a dog you want to "set them up" to succeed or fail. For you you want the dog to fail at getting at your kids, timing is VERY important when correcting so the dog KNOWS what you are teaching it. You should put an e-collar on the dog. At lowest setting stim the unit and increase stim until you see some "slight" reaction from the dog and then you know that the dog feels that setting (usually levels 1-3) and that is your communication level. You then bump it a couple of notches for punitive correction. Most collars have what is called Momentary Stimulation & Continuous Stimulation. Momentary means when you hit the button the dog gets a "Nick" at 1/250th of a second and Continuous Stimulation means it continues to stimulate as long as you hold the button.

You can allow your kids to mess with the dog and when he nips you hit Continuous and hold it till the dog TURNS from your kids. The dog learns that to stop the stim that "the dog" has the ability to control/stop it by turning away. Then when the dog gets near the kids or shows body language that is aggressive you just give the dog a Nick on the level you have found is the communication level to warn the dog to get away from them. If the dog ignores the nick them bump it & give him continuos stim until he turns away. The dog MUST UNDERSTAND for this to work or it will just get frustrated and mean. The e-collar is a great safe and humane training tool if used correctly or cruel if abused. The great thing about it is its not personal and the dog doesn't immediately associate it with you the way coming at the dog and swinging at it does, plus you can time the corrections so the dog immediately associates the correction with "the dog's own actions"

Good Luck:)

[bkb0000]

http://www.healthypets.com/nydogmusm.html

http://ep.yimg.com/ca/I/healthypetscom_2081_103898107

i think the photo is of one of the larger ones. the "small" is on sale for $7.49, and should work for shit................... sus.

[montanadave]

Will getting his nuts cut off help? I dont know how to get a 3.5 year old kid to get dominance over the dog.

I would strongly advise against cutting your kid's nuts off. It will do little to alleviate the immediate problem with your dad's dog and will likely cause a lot of problems down the road.

Seriously, I agree with the crate idea. The dog is stressed and providing a safe, secure environment that is his own "turf" may curb some of the aggressive behavior. Just make it a rule that the kids leave the dog alone when it is in its crate.

[larry0071]

Personally, I am a dog lover and owner. I would kill or die for my Chocolate lab. But if he once snapped at or bit one of my 3 children, I would kill him. I have no use for animals that will hurt the children. I vote shoot the thing, it is not a safe family animal and is not properly domesticated.... or it is a breed that is not able to be properly domesticated.

In the case where it is not actually your animal, I say take it to a boarding shelter and pay the rent for the beast until your Dad comes back to claim his beloved dog.

Just no matter what, make sure you don't have to come back and explain that your baby needs plastic surgery because she/he got bit in the face by this dog. Do what you need to do as a parent to take that risk out of the equation.

T-Rex and Troy
http://i409.photobucket.com/albums/pp174/larry0071/Jan%202009%20Gun%20Stuff/T-Rex/11f06931.jpg

EDIT: Sorry for the loss of your mother, that is a very hard thing for anyone to deal with. God Bless you and your family. Merry Christmas!

[M4Fundi]

If its just a few months then BKB0000 suggestion may be best. Get a plastic cage muzzle and the dog just lives with it on except when eating.

[Macx]

Seems to me it would be a better(easier)idea to instruct the little ones not to go face to face with the dog. Crating should never be used as punishment for the dog, it is intended to be the animals sanctuary. If the children are not interacting with the dog it cannot bite them.

I agree with this. I don't really like the idea of muzzling and would be very reluctant to use a shock collar.

The crate however sounds like exactly what the OP needs. If the crate can be put someplace the dog can get to, that you can keep the boys out of. When the dog is feeling "a little too poked and prodded" 9/10 or more a dog will retreat to the safety of a crate. Beyond the training time of helping the dog to understand the crate is where it'll get left alone, usually you'll be able to leave the crate door open and let the dog decide when to come out. At 3.5 years old, you should be able to set a rule for the boys: like if you put the crate in your bedroom, boys don't get to go in the bedroom unless mom or dad is nin the room with them. I used crates with my Pit/Mastiff mix and my Danes & they'd always go to their crates during thunderstorms, when my ex-wife and I were arguing, whatever. . . if it caused them anxiety they'd go to their crates. The most important thing is, when they are in the crate, they must be left alone. Given a "safe" place, even dogs that are a little over the top (due to breed or personality) can be brought back down off condition orange.

[four]

So one of two things is happening here.
1) the dog is just mean and thinks biting people is okay. it happens, and it's sad. these dogs may imprint on one or two people and bite everyone else. Occasionally, they turn on the owner as well. you always have to watch these dogs and you never give them your full trust. They can still be pets, but never good pets.
OR
2) The dog is frustrated and is trying to correct the kids behavior. Watch a mother dog and puppies sometime, correction is instant, loud, and unmistakably physical. They bite at the face of puppies and the puppies bite at the face of mom.

If the dog has been a good pet in the past, then it's probably frustrated. I can't stress this enough, by trying to establish "dominance" over the dog, you are simply making the problem worse. Dog are social, and they have highly structured pack behavior. But there is no such thing as pure dominance with dogs. Remember, they're decendent from wolves but that doesn't make them wolves. what is true of wolves is not necessarily true of dogs. There is no alpha dog like there is an alpha wolf.

So the dog gets stressed, nicks the kids, and then you roll him on his back (which is a submissive position and stressful for a dog that's already stressed.) what your telling him is that he never gets to win and he's not allowed to express his displeasure at rude behavior. He has no control over his life or body. he's going to get more stressed-- he will get worse. What you are conditioning into his behavior is to repress all the stress responses he has and never express them. (that's what the nips are, expressing his frustration.) Hard correction in this case will only serve to repress the warnings he's giving you. Just like a person, he will become more controlled, until that one day where he just can't take it anymore. He will not give any signs that he's frustrated, he will just lash out and bite someone hard. -- But you're not there yet. He's still giving you signs he's frustrated and that means you have time.

So a couple of things will really help. First, get him some exercise. not to the point of exhaustion, but make sure he earns his sleep. a tired dog is a good dog. It'll be a good way for him to burn off some of the frustration he's feeling. Second, try some training. Make sure that all good things come from you or the kids. feed him out of your hand for a little while. A little obedience training goes a long way to making both you and him happier. Last, yes, try a crate. But never, and I mean never, as a punishment. The crate should be his cave, where he can go to get away from all the things that are frustrating him. Kids getting to be too much? hey, let's go in the crate where they can't get to. Nothing bad should ever happen in the crate. you don't force him in, you don't force him out. his time, his space, his rules. Feed him in there at least once a day. give him a couple hours to chill out and nap in there with out having to deal with everyone. knowing he has a safe place to go a ways in making him feel like he's got some control.

The last thing you should strongly consider is baby gates, obviously there are some issues with the kids and dog. you really should thinking about keeping them under close supervision when together, and separated when you can't really watch them. it takes a whole lot of patience on the dogs part to deal with toddlers. Especially when they're used to older, calmer, predictable people.

Don't take my word for it. start some reading, it'll help with this dog, and every dog you ever meet afterward. this is in order of helpfulness.
start here: Culture CLash (http://www.amazon.com/Culture-Clash-Revolutionary-Understanding-Relationship/dp/1888047054/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1261278242&sr=1-1)

then here: Don't shoot the dog. (http://www.amazon.com/Dont-Shoot-Dog-Teaching-Training/dp/0553380397)

and last: living with kids and dogs (http://www.amazon.com/Living-Kids-Dogs-Without-Losing-Your/dp/1933562668/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1261278313&sr=1-1)

[SteyrAUG]

Crating should never be used as punishment for the dog, it is intended to be the animals sanctuary.

I don't think anyone is suggesting it be punishment, but for containment of bad behavior. Certainly better than kenneling the dog with strangers. And not everyone uses a crate as a sanctuary/dog house. I let my whole house be their sanctuary, but when they are puppies and teething on everything or can't be trusted alone they do some time in a crate.

[Belmont31R]

Alright I worked with the dog and my boys today. Had them feed him some food, and gave him some treats. Worked with them on how to pet him, and to not hit him or to take his food. Everyone did great, and no hurt kids or dogs.


Ill look into a crate this week. Our dogs are very clingy though so I dont know how well its going to go. They literally follow me around room to room, and this one in particular sleeps on me every night. Ill do a bit of reading later today on crate training....


Never had a dog with aggression issues so Ive never had to deal with this before.


This is our 3rd dog which is like a 2nd mother to our twins. However she is outside most of the time as 3 dogs in the house is too much. Our Aussie and this shitsu are indoors 90% of the time.

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj245/BM31R/DSC_0061.jpg