View Full Version : Marine opens fire in OKC.
http://www.news9.com/Global/story.asp?S=11696830&Call=Email&Format=Text
OKLAHOMA CITY -- A man is in police custody after opening fire at a northwest Oklahoma City apartment complex near Hefner and Council roads.
Police said the man started firing multiple shots in the parking lot of the Tammaron Village apartments around 4 p.m. Thursday.
Witnesses said the man initially went into the apartment complex's main office. When employees locked him out, he opened fire in the parking lot.
As the man was firing shots, another citizen armed with a gun came around the corner and ordered the gunman to put his weapon down. The gunman dropped his weapon and ran into his father's apartment and barricaded himself inside.
Oklahoma City police, the tactical team and the bomb squad were called out to negotiate with the man. The man finally surrendered just before 7:30 Thursday evening.
Police said the man opened fire because he was upset with his military status.
Several people at the apartments told NEWS 9 the gunman was a Marine who was on leave and came home for the holidays.
Oklahoma City police Capt. Patrick Steward said the man was taken to a hospital for a mental health evaluation. Police also said he was drunk at the time of the incident.
Police are not saying what branch of the military he was in or what his name is.
No one was injured during the incident. The gunman's name has not been released. It's not known if he will be facing any charges.
Swift, decisive action helped resolve this situation. Well done.
Police said the man opened fire because he was upset with his military status.
If he was unhappy with his military status before, I bet he will be thrilled with his new military status after he learns all about the UCMJ...
B
M4tographer
12-20-09, 18:52
Great work on the armed citizen's part.
SeriousStudent
12-20-09, 18:58
If he was unhappy with his military status before, I bet he will be thrilled with his new military status after he learns all about the UCMJ...
B
Indeed. The phrase "I'll scratch your back if you scratch mine" is about to take on an entirely new meaning for the lad.
And as the others said, excellent work by the armed citizen. I am glad no innocents were hurt.
If I'm going to go crazy and ruin every bit of my career I have built up by shooting the shit out of something - I'm taking out my exhusband...not innocent people at an apartment complex. I mean shit - he could have taken out my exhusband for me!
I just hope that he wasn't so drunk that he doesn't remember what he did. Easier to fix a person who will admit to their wrong.
I wonder what he was so pissed about? Maybe his Gunny made him walk point one to many times. Seriously, what would make a Marine snap while home on leave? I can only surmise that he must have some wife/girlfriend or family issues that need to be resolved. He is lucky that the armed citizen didn't shoot him during the confrontation.
Jen you sound a little bitter about the ex :D. You must have married a Joe. I married a soldier once when I was young. I can't say that the experience has been all sunshine and rainbows but we managed to survive for 19 years and counting.
I wonder what he was so pissed about? Maybe his Gunny made him walk point one to many times. Seriously, what would make a Marine snap while home on leave? I can only surmise that he must have some wife/girlfriend or family issues that need to be resolved. He is lucky that the armed citizen didn't shoot him during the confrontation.
Jen you sound a little bitter about the ex :D. You must have married a Joe. I married a soldier once when I was young. I can't say that the experience has been all sunshine and rainbows but we managed to survive for 19 years and counting.
Bitter is a nice word. Try Team guy...I'll leave that one alone.
Well obviously he had other issues outside of the military. I once was involved in a study for PTSD and they said that individuals who have already gone through traumatic evens as a child and young adult will be more susceptible to having PTSD. I always wondered how a group of soldiers could walk away from an event and only 3 would be severely effected by it mentally while it didn't bother the rest (much). Obviously this dude had issues before he joined.
Bitter is a nice word. Try Team guy...I'll leave that one alone.
Well obviously he had other issues outside of the military. I once was involved in a study for PTSD and they said that individuals who have already gone through traumatic evens as a child and young adult will be more susceptible to having PTSD. I always wondered how a group of soldiers could walk away from an event and only 3 would be severely effected by it mentally while it didn't bother the rest (much). Obviously this dude had issues before he joined.
There are a lot of things that may serve as "indicators" for PTSD.
A study about the USS Cole bombing found that females were more likely to "develop" PTSD.
Another study I read found that people who smoked before deploying were at a higher risk for PTSD. Among other things. But smoking was at the top.
There are a lot of things that may serve as "indicators" for PTSD.
A study about the USS Cole bombing found that females were more likely to "develop" PTSD.
Another study I read found that people who smoked before deploying were at a higher risk for PTSD. Among other things. But smoking was at the top.
I personally think that everyone who has seen half the shiz that the majority of American servicemen and women have seen have issues. Some are better at hiding things than others. Lets face it people - the majority of the people we grew up with will NEVER step outside of their comfort zone and into a foreign land and see the things we have seen. We are not the abnormal. Those who live in ignorance and watch the world from a box that lights up in their living room....they are the weird ones!
Good deal. There are some bad apples everywhere and it's always nice when they get sorted out without bloodshed. Gotta love the ability for American citizens to arm themselves. Score one for CCW.
Great work on the armed citizen's part.
+1
This is the kind of story that SHOULD be all over the news but aside from seeing it here I doubt I will see/hear anything about it. Imagine that. :mad:
+1
This is the kind of story that SHOULD be all over the news but aside from seeing it here I doubt I will see/hear anything about it. Imagine that. :mad:
Well I dont know about you but I'm in CA...we are still hearing about Tiger and all his Ho Ho Ho's
Bitter is a nice word. Try Team guy...I'll leave that one alone.
Well obviously he had other issues outside of the military. I once was involved in a study for PTSD and they said that individuals who have already gone through traumatic evens as a child and young adult will be more susceptible to having PTSD. I always wondered how a group of soldiers could walk away from an event and only 3 would be severely effected by it mentally while it didn't bother the rest (much). Obviously this dude had issues before he joined.
The only times I had any reaction to action on the ground was when our gun truck was nearly blown into basic components (happened several times) and when one of the Iraqi Army officers we were advising opened fire on a group of kids playing soccer. Luckily he missed but we were going ape shit in the truck yelling at him to stop. That incident turned my stomach. I wonder what your study would call a traumatic event? It is true that we all have different tolerances and coping mechanisms for the dark things that we can encounter out there. I just hope this kid can get the help he needs otherwise he is screwed for life (during WWI psychologist learned that PTSD doesn't improve with time if it isn't treated immediately).
I think if I had to live in Oklahoma for an extended period of time I would turn to drinking and violence to cope as well...:D
Excellent ending to the story. Good on the guy who disarmed him before anybody was harmed. I hope the guy gets the help he obviously needs.
CarlosDJackal
12-21-09, 07:45
Great work on the armed citizen's part.
+1 The Marine is lucky the armed citizen didn't just go ahead and cap his ass.
Should've just capped the guy and save us the cost of trial and incarceration.
MMMM....not sayin...but just sayin
+1 The Marine is lucky the armed citizen didn't just go ahead and cap his ass.
Voice commands should be a big a part of training for anybody who carries for SD in the civilian role... If he wasn't directly threatened by the Marine, it would have been a long, expensive couple of years for the guy...
Voice commands should be a big a part of training for anybody who carries for SD in the civilian role... If he wasn't directly threatened by the Marine, it would have been a long, expensive couple of years for the guy...
I agree with you in principal but everyone who is carrying concealed is not an LEO and isn't used to using "verbal Judo". Also, I think with some people that this might actually escalate the situation and present more problems. If someone of a more dimunitive stature is trying to order a big bad guy around and they get a big "F you" then what? You've given the bad guy precious time to narrow the gap between yourselves and possibly endangered your own livelihood. If I'm drawing my weapon I would say the odds of me pulling the trigger are damn near certain, not always, but pretty darn close.
I would consider any person, whether .Mil or not, to be an imminent threat to myself and everyone around if they're blindly firing into the night in a populated area. Thankfully the person didn't shoot him and he can get some help but I'm not sure if I would've reacted the same way.
I agree with you in principal but everyone who is carrying concealed is not an LEO and isn't used to using "verbal Judo". Also, I think with some people that this might actually escalate the situation and present more problems. If someone of a more dimunitive stature is trying to order a big bad guy around and they get a big "F you" then what? You've given the bad guy precious time to narrow the gap between yourselves and possibly endangered your own livelihood. If I'm drawing my weapon I would say the odds of me pulling the trigger are damn near certain, not always, but pretty darn close.
I would consider any person, whether .Mil or not, to be an imminent threat to myself and everyone around if they're blindly firing into the night in a populated area. Thankfully the person didn't shoot him and he can get some help but I'm not sure if I would've reacted the same way.
Precisely my point. Voice commands should be used in regular training for civilians where unlike the military "if he is armed he is dead".
Based on this situation a drunk went to jail and not to the morgue, when you add the civil liabilities into a civilian shooting scenario it should be taught IMHO. Just because someone is armed doesn't mean that he is a direct deadly threat to you at that instant.
With training comes the knowledge of where that line is. A guy armed with his back to you is not technically a threat to you because you have the chance to retreat, if he turns and threatens you then its game on and he dies for that decision.
Remember your threshold for using deadly force is greater than LEO or Mil. There are many scenarios where you could encounter a person armed with a deadly weapon that would not justify deadly force. I would suggest speaking with a DA, judge and lawyer to clarify what the appropriate action would be based upon multiple real life scenarios.
There is a time for justifiable deadly force, but its not as easily defined for a civilian as one might like to believe. It's not just the criminal side you need to think about, it is also the civil side that can destroy your life.
As far as closing the gap, you bring up a scenario where YOU ARE UNDER ATTACK, take appropriate action. Based on the story you are already at the ready, it should not take you long to deal with the threat accordingly. If you can eliminate the threat without having to discharge your weapon, that is a best case scenario and one that should be strived for.
I do agree that if my weapon makes it out of its holster it is my intent to use it or it would not come out. However a level head might allow you to defuse the situation without having to use deadly force, sometimes your weapon can obtain compliance in the same manner it was in this case.
Just my 2 cents, but I am far from the smartest guy on this board...
You make some very valid points, well said.
It's sad to hear things like this. With the recent Ft. Hood shooting & this. I bet the media finds some way to make all military guys look like crazed idiots & blame it on the war. It is really sad to see a Marine ruin his life like this.
Some states allow deadly force in the protection of others. Even if I am not directly threatened, if other innocents are some states allow to take deadly action to stop it and am not under the obligation to retreat myself.
I've thought through the process for myself -- voice commands etc but have to admit have not really practiced it more than once or twice.
D90, there are a couple of things in your post that make some of that advice completely worthless in my state. Other parts are suspect, and still other parts are good advice.
In my state, LEOs are more restricted in their UoF than civilians (although they do have qualified immunity). This is explicitly stated by the legislature. Also, deadly force may be used to protect a third party, or to end a forcible felony as defined by statute.
Not saying this was a shoot scenario, but it CANNOT be stressed enough that every state has different rules about lawful use of lethal force, and we are responsible to know the law wherever we are.
Also, I was standing just today in a place where an armed citizen was paralyzed because he was engaging with his voice when he should have been killing. In this case where someone is not engaging a target, but using a firearm to make a commotion, it can be reasonable under some circumstances to verbally engage. I will go so far though, as to categorically state that if someone is intent on using a weapon or already firing it with intent to land a hit, it is grossly negligent to speak. Unless you can speak and fire accurately at the same time.
If he was unhappy with his military status before, I bet he will be thrilled with his new military status after he learns all about the UCMJ...
B
roflmao
RadioActivity
12-22-09, 07:45
I wonder what he was so pissed about? Maybe his Gunny made him walk point one to many times. Seriously, what would make a Marine snap while home on leave?.
I'll say that oddly enough, going home (even just for 2 week R&R) can be one of the most stressful times in a deployment. Sounds odd but you would be surprised.
atlantaguns
12-22-09, 22:48
I dont mention this often but honestly I am surprised I haven't seen shit like this from the guys I served with. I know quite a few guys that must be bat shit crazy by now. I know none of them have ever got the help they need. Mix all the bad shit from the war with drugs and you start to have real problems.
I dont mention this often but honestly I am surprised I haven't seen shit like this from the guys I served with. I know quite a few guys that must be bat shit crazy by now. I know none of them have ever got the help they need. Mix all the bad shit from the war with drugs and you start to have real problems.
I totally agree. We had a couple incidents. One guy kidnapped his mom and wife and took them to Mexico. Held a knife to his wives throat. The thing is, he and I were on every single convoy together. We saw the exact same shiz. Its very interesting how some people just react and take it in differently. I admit I too have had problems, but I internalized them rather than act out in a shooting rampage.
I also agree with the previous comment on coming home from leave. WORST decision I EVER made! I do not recommend it to any service member. Just do your time then make sure you have someone to talk to when you come home. The change from blocking out all emotions and pushing on with a mission for a year straight - to coming back to America and being forced to feel again is a hard transition that no one is willing to admit because they don't want to be looked on as pussies.
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