View Full Version : What weapons do you have in your Tool Kit, and why?
I struggled with the title a little. What I'm looking for is an idea of what you guys consider your "needed" rifles. Not in the liberal "why do you need that?" sense, but in what you consider necessary for your needs, from a capability and personal preference stance. I've been back and forth in my own mind dwelling upon what I need, what my requirements are, and gun collecting. Let's face it, with the sunsetting of the AWB, there are just so many options out there that I can't possibly purchase everything I would like from a collections stand point. So now I am listing what I think I need, and how I went about fullfilling those needs.
My gun list:
1. Pistol for CCW:
Kimber Warrior, Wife: Kimber Pro Carry 2 in 9mm
2. Carbine for home defense:
Three Colt 6920s
2 w/aimpoint M3, 1 w/ACOG TA31
The reason for three is one for me, one for my wife, and a spare.
We plan on attending ThunderRanch, so the spare is a must.
(I'm strongly considering a light)
3. A 5.56 rifle geared to longer range accuracy:
Mk12 Mod1 clone
For some reason in my mind, I like the idea of having the silenced
5.56 with a little more consideration for reach.
4. 7.62 SASS type rifle:
Mk11 Clone
Just a little more hit power out at distance, and more reach
5. Dedicated Distance Rifle:
Accuracy International .338LM
This is the rifle I'm most on the fence about, Its the most expensive,
And the least likely to ever be needed. If there ever is a situation in
which we would have to use our rifles in some sort of conflict, reach
would definitely be a good thing.
Disclaimer: It is very difficult to factor out desire from needs. That's part of the reason for the post.
That pretty much covers all that I can think that I would possibly ever need. For budget reasons, it also forgoes collecting other rifles such as: Sig 556, XCR, Scar L&H, Masada, PS2000, and an AK.
I'm sure everyone has their own reasons, I would just like an idea of what others, that use their rifles for training, competition and professional use, think when considering their needs. I'm also thinking that now would be the best time to get my house in order... so to speak.
Thanks.
ETA: I've edited the title in the hopes to attract a little more attention to get a better understanding. Specifically what I'm asking for, from experienced TRAINED shooters, is what areas have you come to the conclusion that you require a solution, and how did you fill those requirements? This applies only to firearms as tools. For example, if you kick doors for a living, and you use a shotgun... Why did you decide that the shotgun was a better tool than other options, and what other areas have you decided that you required a specific tool. You don't have to be a Navy Seal to respond, civillian shooters with training are welcome. Please just explain why you chose what you did. This is one of those "There are no wrong answers" type of questions. My hope is to facilitate and understanding of why experienced shooters have purchased the rifles that they did, and what they based their decision on. Also, I know that these answers are all over gun boards, but I'm looking for some consolidation of information, and a better look at your complete tool kit than specifically one aspect. Thanks all.
My kit as it is now:
Concealed Carry/Duty-
Sig 226 9mm
Colt 1911
Training/HD/Tactical -
2 Bushmaster Patrolmans Carbines (A2 and A3 versions).
Assorted web gear setups (collected during 18 years of service and counting)
Aimpoint CompM2
C-More Tactical model red dot (for the A3)
Dedicated long range rifle:
Win M70 in .30-06 with 4x Leupold
I am pretty comfortable with the gear I have now, but I have been considering a dedicated 6.8mm 20" A4 type rifle.
When I purchased the carbines I decided on both the A2 as KISS rifle and the A3 for its modular capabilities.
Interesting question.
SHTF/bugout
My personal choices:
HK USP Tactical .45 or CT .45 w/suppressor
If too much for wife then .40 both (keeps ammo, training and mags consistant)
LMT MRP 14.5 w/ Ops Inc FS/mount to bring to 16" and Ops Inc model 15 x3 (spare complete) optics TBD
As many mags and bandoleer ammo, medical supplies, food, water, gear (and rifle spare parts), knives, multi-tool, etc as I could grab (pre-packed) and prioritised in the available time.
Now with more time and a place to defend:
Built-up gun 6.5G again suppressed for intermediate to long range
Possibly .458 SOCOM-but I don't see getting into defense against vehicle or light armor. If they start coming, best to get gone.
Most important is ammo (the new cash medium), spare parts, magazines, food, water, etc. And training, training, training.
Now for the collecting side after you've blown a lifetimes income. First spare parts, lowers, uppers, etc. Then the esoteric/exotics XCR, Masada, etc.
Personally I'm a minimalist. Yes it would be fun to have a collection, but I'd rather have the training and supplies.
I know the choice of the MRP might seem strange (expensive and ease of service issues ie-proprietary barrel, etc), but they are built like a tank. There is a valid arguement for interchangablility by going with standard (mil spec) A3 uppers, barrels and parts. Do what the wallet will support.
Army Chief
03-23-07, 13:18
My kit:
Short Range (Unplanned interdiction):
1911 - I tend to favor Wilson's in the $2k sweet spot. You can spend half that, and be just as well-armed. Training trumps all labels.
Short Range (Planned interdiction):
870 - Again, I like what Wilson's is doing with these, but a stock Remington with an 18" tube will serve you well.
Medium Range:
6920 - I ante'd up for a SAW HB, but a standard Colt LE Carbine (or quality equivalent) is more than adequate. No pimp guns, please.
Long Range:
M1A - It's hard to beat a walnut glass-bedded Springfield, but if you prefer an EBR chassis (or a Fulton rifle), you've certainly got nothing to lose. Top with a Leupold, heat, and serve.
Notice that I'm favoring a simple battle-rifle in 7.62mm for "long range" purposes here. That isn't because I wouldn't prefer a bolt gun in an alternate chambering (or a Barrett pushing boat anchors), but rather because I see little practical utility in looking beyond 400-500 meters for personal defense purposes in my corner of the world. Beyond that distance, I've still got the time to jump into my M3, light up the rear wheels, and get the heck out of Dodge.
Chief
I am actually planning a long post re: my rifles when I get the last couple of pieces of my puzzles in. In the interim...
Large Handgun: Ed Brown Special Forces
Concealed carry, IDPA, training
Medium Handgun: Kimber Compact Aluminum (Series I)
Concealed carry for when the EB is too big/heavy
Small Handgun: Colt Mustang Pocketlite w/ work by SM&A
Concealed carry for when the Kimber is too big/heavy
Tiny Handgun: NAA .22 magnum
Concealed carry for when I'm not supposed to be carrying ;)
The rifles have been an ongoing project, and I finally am within weeks and a couple $100 of finishing them off. I need the silencer paperwork to clear, the light mounts to come in for the "B"s, and a Surefire scout light for the 2A and I'll be done.
1A rifle: Colt 6520 (16" barrel) w/ flattop, 3x Compact ACOG, forend rail, 9v light, foregrip, Vltor stock
Main go-to all-purpose carbine for training, competing, and hunting
1B rifle: Colt 6520 w/ M4 handguards, A1 grip, front side sling adapter, rubber butt pad, & light mount
Backup to 1A and handout/loaner (spouse, friend, etc.)
2A rifle: Colt 6933 (11.5" barrel) w/ 1.5x Compact ACOG, 6v light, silencer, otherwise set up to match 1A as much as possible
Home & CQB use
2B rifle: Colt 6933 w/ carryhandle attached & setup to match 1B as much as possible
Backup to 2A and handout/loaner (spouse, friend, etc.)
.22 conversions for the 1911 and AR w/ silencer that can be used on either for training, teaching new shooters, and neighborhood pest control
I have a very short list
a G17 . Because it goes Bang EVERY time I press the trigger. It's simple.reliable and with the proper training and mindset.. I will kill you with it as sure as your standing there if it comes to that.
My BCM/LMT AR Carbine with Aimpoint and Light..
Again.. it's reliable, works in any light condition, I have intimate knowledge and practice with it and have mucho muscle memory with it. and if your within 300 meters of me and I have to kill you.. it will.
That's pretty much it... everything else, I can live with out if I have to.
Glock 19. I have 6 Glocks, 4 1911s (worth propably 12K total), SW J frame .357, and a beautiful BHP. If I had to grab one, it would be the G19 hands down. it does everything well and is utterly reliable.
Colt factory M4 upper on a Stag lower with all Colt guts. Nobody sells stripped Colt lowers or I'd go ahead and make it all Pony. It has a KAC MRE rail and a Aimpoint M3 with a SF Scout light. Does everything I need. I also have a Noveske 14.5 with a KAC FF and Leupold MR/T 1.5-5x if I need a little more range and accuracy, but it's not as "important" as the Colt.
Remington 870P, Vang Comp barrel, Sage stock, and Surefire forend. Everyone needs a shotty that will never break.
I can do everything I need with those three save long range sniping. I'd like an AI .308 or M24 for that.
J-Frame w/Lasergrip: Best BUG available.
G19/17: Most reliable, proven, out of the box, easily carried pistol available.
S&W M&P: Rapidly becoming a good alternative to the Glock; definitely the best .40 pistol available.
1911: When properly done, the most "shootable" handgun available.
629: Good wilderness BUG.
------------------------------------
870: Most durable, reliable, and versatile shotgun available.
M1 Carbine in restricted states/AK in free states: Handy to throw in the trunk and forget about until needed.
AR15: Ergonomic versatile carbine--especially in 6.8mm...
.308 and .338 bolt guns: Long range accuracy.
.45-70 1895GS: Wilderness carry.
No.6- you want 3 OpsInc 15th models or 3 complete rifles with 3 suppressors? Seems like overkill. I also don't think a .458 is any better suited to taking out light armor than a .308.
I'll just stick with my Glock 32 and 16" midlength with Eotech until I can afford to buy anything and everything out there. I've also got the 1911, suppressed 92fs and RO635, and AK to fall back on but am nowhere near as skilled with those.
baffle Stack
03-23-07, 19:57
I have a very short list
a G17 . Because it goes Bang EVERY time I press the trigger. It's simple.reliable and with the proper training and mindset.. I will kill you with it as sure as your standing there if it comes to that.
My BCM/LMT AR Carbine with Aimpoint and Light..
Again.. it's reliable, works in any light condition, I have intimate knowledge and practice with it and have mucho muscle memory with it. and if your within 300 meters of me and I have to kill you.. it will.
That's pretty much it... everything else, I can live with out if I have to.
I like the way this guy thinks. I have almost this set up except I have a G19 and an LMT upper on a bushy lower. Both pretty much "plain Jane". (Well compared to most of you gear queers :p )
What I really need is a nice 870 and a 700. A few lowers would be nice too considering EBR are constantly in the crosshairs:mad: .
Right now my g19 and carbine are serving me just fine. I have never had to pull either of them “god” forbid.
What I really need is a stockpile of ammo. People seem to forget this part of the equation. I’m r3ally happy Grant is carrying that practice Hornady. That is some good stuff.
And for "the why"
G19 is a great all around pistol
LMT upper has a proven record (Crane anyone?)
870 and 700, I simply see these as the best "niche" fillers, combined with a reasonable price to boot.
I have no "need" for custom guns at this point in my life. I simply need them to work when need be.:D
I've got two catagories of guns. Fun guns and Working guns. Here are the workers
Pistol: Sig P220 SST
Shotgun: Custom 870
Light Rifle: Custom AR
Long Gun: FN SPR 7.62
Rogueplayer
03-23-07, 23:23
Me: P229 .357 Sig & 1911
Wife: G23 & G26
Me: AR6721 & 6601
Wife: 10.5" 9mm SBR w/ Colt components
Me: Franchi 620
Wife: Browning A5 20 gauge
I like the way this guy thinks.
I both agree and disagree.:D
The thread isn't about what you "need' (there you go Hawkeye, I said it) but what you have in the toolbox and why. There are no legal restrictions on owning multiple firearms, so why hamstring yourself? If forced to, yes I could more than make do with my Ed Brown and my 1A carbine, but why would I want to? If you have the funds, the time, the resources, and the experience to know what works BEST for you in a given situation, why not have it?
I find that I perform best when I have the best tool for the job. Can I shoot IDPA with my Colt Mustang? Absolutely. Can I take my A2 sight 6933 (2B) carbine to a training class? Of course. But I don't have to, and I know what tools will allow me to both perform the task at hand and enjoy doing so the most.
I can pound in a nail with a Surefire X200 attached to a pistol, but why would I want to when I can afford to buy a hammer?:p
I'm agonizing over responding to this topic.
I have a lot of civilian guns -- for I enjoy them and while I do buy things in "niches" I don't do it because I feel a NEED -- I do it because I enjoy it.
As far as an armed civilian goes the only weapons I feel I need are a CCW pistol (Glock19) and a AR (for me a 16" middy with a combat variable scope)
I run the same system in Iraq - and while I may also have a SAW/GPMG and "other" items here that won't fly CONUS - I cannot see a need for anything else CONUS.
Keep in mind I have 2 HK AG-C Gl's personal -- but I have them for fun -- not for any specific NEED.
I have a AR10 Mk11 clone that I have because I enjoy shooting mid ranges -- I dont have a .338LM or .50 rifle since while I enjoy shooting Long Range -- they are retarded expensive to buy and feed. I have 14 different AR/M16's from 4" to 20" barrels and a swack of other stuff too
I have a 10" 870 since it looks cool (yeah I bought it for that reason as I dont fool myself with the idea I will be running around breaching with it)
I spent 17 years in the Army -- I figured IF the end of the world was coming - odds are work would provide lots of toys and tgts...
These days I figure that IF the end of the world is coming -- I'm going to go hang out with some buddies who are still in the Army...
My comments would be to buy the guns you want - and over an above a Glock and an AR, just do it because you like them.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v193/EvilKev/Iraq/Iraq528.jpg
Army Chief
03-24-07, 09:07
I'm agonizing over responding to this topic.
I have a lot of civilian guns -- for I enjoy them and while I do buy things in "niches" I don't do it because I feel a NEED -- I do it because I enjoy it.
As far as an armed civilian goes the only weapons I feel I need are a CCW pistol (Glock19) and a AR (for me a 16" middy with a combat variable scope)
I run the same system in Iraq - and while I may also have a SAW/GPMG and "other" items here that won't fly CONUS - I cannot see a need for anything else CONUS.
Keep in mind I have 2 HK AG-C Gl's personal -- but I have them for fun -- not for any specific NEED.
I have a AR10 Mk11 clone that I have because I enjoy shooting mid ranges -- I dont have a .338LM or .50 rifle since while I enjoy shooting Long Range -- they are retarded expensive to buy and feed. I have 14 different AR/M16's from 4" to 20" barrels and a swack of other stuff too
I have a 10" 870 since it looks cool (yeah I bought it for that reason as I dont fool myself with the idea I will be running around breaching with it)
I spent 17 years in the Army -- I figured IF the end of the world was coming - odds are work would provide lots of toys and tgts...
These days I figure that IF the end of the world is coming -- I'm going to go hang out with some buddies who are still in the Army...
My comments would be to buy the guns you want - and over an above a Glock and an AR, just do it because you like them.
//snip image//
By trade and experience, I'm still more of a pistolero than a rifleman, and for that reason, I'm not really feeling all of the Glock love in this thread. That said, I found myself nodding north and south throughout Kevin's logical and unflinchingly honest post.
Well said.
Chief
I have more weapons than I could use and would probably just lend it out to family and friends during an emergency.
Concealed carry: Glock 19 and Colt 1911 Lightweight Officers .45
Sidearm: HK USP Full .40 and Sig P226 9mm
(My other pistols: 3X Colt 1911, Sig P220 .45 and CZ-75 9mm clone)
Home defense: LMT 16" M4 CAR with EOTech and Surefire M951 light, RRA A4 9mm CAR and Benelli M1 Super 90 shotgun
Short to medium range outdoors rifle: Colt 6721 with medium contour, mid length gas system barrel, LaRue 9.0 rails, Aimpoint and Surefire M961 light
(My backups for severe weather conditions: 2X Steyr AUG, 3X AK-47 7.62X39 and SKS)
Long range: M1 Garand and AR-15A2 with Colt M16A2 upper half
I'm currently building a SPR upper to use on my A2 AR lower and I'm planning to build a .308 AR type rifle after I finish my current project.
During the '92 L.A. Riots when I was living there at that time all I had with me was my AR Lightweight carbine with ten full 30 rd mags, Benelli M1S90 shotgun, Sig P226 and Colt compact 1911 .45 and I was better prepared with those weapons than most of my neighbors and coworkers.
All my other rifles, pistols and thousands of ammo are in my parents house which was outside the city about 70 miles away, I retreated there after three days when the riot ended and the national guards were in the city.
Lessons learned during SHTF, some neiborhoods (not mine) the guys got together to guard their entrances to their blocks with vehicles to prevent drive by shooters, rioters and looters.
That's a better way to secure the blocks because armed men and the blocked entrances are a good deterrent rather than unblocked streets without anyone guarding the area.
I'm only a typical civilian that's been shooting since I was a young boy, I did about ten years of USPSA-IPSC pistol combat shooting and DCM/ CMP rifle competition and I'm still shooting now for practice and fun.
KevinB,
To that I would say don't agonize. It’s always best to be honest, direct, and polite. It is people like you that the thread was intended to attract. One of the greatest benefits of the internet is the ability to connect to people who can provide valuable advice. I can choose to listen, or not, but I greatly prefer the chance to ponder what people like you have to say. Several times, I've received advice from wise people, and at times that advice has been contradictory to my own instincts. In some cases, I've trusted them, and found out I was right. In others, well let's just say I should have listened more closely.
When I first started purchasing firearms, I decided that I needed a short, medium, and long range capability. My thoughts are the short for CCW. The medium for (as Army Chief calls it) planned interdiction. Basically, Katrina type stuff, which are bound to happen in the future.
The long range capability is the hard part. As an American, and someone who believes in the Second Amendment, I have to consider the implications that such a belief entails, no matter the likelihood. Believe me when I say that I don't consider this based on paranoia, but what I consider prudence. With the ever encroaching sense of entitlement in this country, and along with it the sense that it is someone else's responsibility to provide that entitlement, I do grow more concerned. Add to that a rather fast changing culture (read: multiculturalism), and I believe that makes a nice recipe for friction. Who can say what the future holds, but I believe if I am to honor my fore fathers, I should be prepared for that future. And, as described by my first disclaimer, I may also be guilty of letting desire bleed into my "needs" category.
Another Disclaimer: I believe the best way to avoid problems is through the political process and in NO WAY do I advocate “voting from the rooftops”. Most people who do, often forget that when we declared independence, the fight was brought to our doorstep, we did not take it to theirs.
I have 3 rifles:
Vector UF - Trunk Gun.
Custom AR - This will be my main defense gun when I get finished building it, and test it to make sure it's reliable.
Remington 870 - This pretty much just sits in the safe as I'm not a big fan of shotguns really. Good to have one though.
I don't currently own any handguns because I'm not 21 yet. Later this year when I'm of age I'm going to get my carry permit and a Glock 19. I'll also inheirit a very nice Colt 1911 :D .
I guess I'm with Kevin as to want vs. need.
My Thoughts on the tool box based on my experience is this...
Nothing wrong with having a big tool box.. I just like having a small one for the simple fact is.. When the guy with the big tool box is rooting around in his looking for the "Right tool for the job" I will have already pulled out my choice of "Tool" and executed my strategy is a fast and violent manner...;)
Sure, I could have added to my list my M1A or the AK-47
or the Rem PSS 700 with the 10X Leupold
of the 870 Shotty with extended tube and Ghostring sights
or the M-1 Garand..
or.etc,etc,etc...
But for me.. I want my tool box to be streamlined and efficient, as opposed to cluttered. One thing I learned from Uncle Sugar in 21 years of working for him....KISS....
The original Poster as I understand him asked what we felt we "Needed" or was"Necessary" for our personnel preference. As to all the different gun games and having the right gun for the game.. I have a M1A for Highpower and the G17 I can use for all the IDPA/USPSC,IPSC,games...
A $2000 Pistol will not make me shoot better. Shooting and mastering the basics will...
I picked my 2... everything else I have... is just for fun or to collect.
baffle Stack
03-24-07, 16:47
I both agree and disagree.:D
:p Good point. If I had more money I would definitely have much more of a collection.
Incidentally, one of the top shooters in our club shoots a Glock 19 and runs an AR with, last time I checked, a Trijicon Reflex sight. He's a private security guy and he is a VERY good shooter. He games it for IDPA, but he knows what he's doing.
I would say that makes a good argument for what one "needs".
I have "a family of shooters." I have sisters, brothers-in-law, sons, nephews, partners, friends and a wife who all know how to shoot. If something happens, my place is where everybody meets up. Because my place is the fall back place, I keep a variety of different firearms available and a number of rounds too. In other words, I have "categories" of firearms.
I have four .22 caliber rifles, for example, 2 that are semi-automatic fire and 2 that are bolt-actioned with scopes. One of the semi-autos is a Ruger 10-22 for which I have a number of magazines. This rifle would be to lay down supressive fire like a mini-machinegun would do. The other is a very accurate tube-fed semi-auto which would support/augment the Ruger. The two bolt-action rifles would be used like sniper rifles with their scopes and extremely accurate fire. All four of these rifles could also be used for training purposes or even "trade goods" if needed.
My three .223 AR-15 rifles would be used by experienced shooters who have military/law enforcement experiences behind them. One is set up with a scope and the other two are M-4 type carbines.
Four shotguns would be used to deliver massive firepower for close range "social encounters" that needed it.
Big bore pistols for experienced shooters and medium bore for some shooters and small bore for training/trade goods.
Several other things that I have included or will include in my main equipment list is knives, machetes, hatchets, hammers and sharpening stones.
I really do NOT expect to ever need any of this stuff. I have, however, just finished reading a news article where people in New Orleans have started arming themsleves just in case there is another major hurricane like Katrina in their area. Both FEMA and the Red Cross stress that we should "plan ahead" in case of a major storm or disaster so I guess that a decent amount of food, water, guns, ammo and prescription meds is what I'm aiming for. Having been in combat with the paratroopers of the 173D Airborne Brigade in Viet Nam for over a year, living rough is something that does NOT scare me. I may not like it but I know that I can get the job done for me and my family members.:)
Patrick Aherne
03-25-07, 01:05
Duty Pistols:
HK USP .45 with LEM, Mepro Nightsigts and HK UTL MkII for both Patrol and SWAT
Off-Duty Pistol:
HK USPc .45 with LEM
Not carrying a gun:
S&W 442 .38
Patrol Rifle:
Bushmaster 16" AR with carryhandle mounted 1.5X Compact ACOG and light, BFG single point
SWAT Rifle:
Colt 6721 with Eotech, light and BFG single point
Personal Rifle:
Frankengun with Oly Arms lower, LMT upper, Aimpoint ML3 in LT mount, LT 7.0 with TD vertical grip, Pentagonlights light, Vltor A1 length clubfoot, BFG single point
HD Shotgun:
Benelli M1S90 with two point and sidesaddle
Long Range Love:
GA Precision .308 built on Rem 700 with McMillan A5 in three color desert, Leupold Vari-xIII in 3.5x10x40 M3, Mike Miller slip cuff, Harris bipod
Everything's pretty simple. They are all just tools and get pretty scarfed up as I use them. I try to keep the systems the same so I don't have to switch between control types, etc. in stressful situations.
Duty Pistols:
HK USP .45 with LEM, Mepro Nightsigts and HK UTL MkII for both Patrol and SWAT
Off-Duty Pistol:
HK USPc .45 with LEM
Not carrying a gun:
S&W 442 .38
Patrol Rifle:
Bushmaster 16" AR with carryhandle mounted 1.5X Compact ACOG and light, BFG single point
SWAT Rifle:
Colt 6721 with Eotech, light and BFG single point
Personal Rifle:
Frankengun with Oly Arms lower, LMT upper, Aimpoint ML3 in LT mount, LT 7.0 with TD vertical grip, Pentagonlights light, Vltor A1 length clubfoot, BFG single point
HD Shotgun:
Benelli M1S90 with two point and sidesaddle
Long Range Love:
GA Precision .308 built on Rem 700 with McMillan A5 in three color desert, Leupold Vari-xIII in 3.5x10x40 M3, Mike Miller slip cuff, Harris bipod
Everything's pretty simple. They are all just tools and get pretty scarfed up as I use them. I try to keep the systems the same so I don't have to switch between control types, etc. in stressful situations.
How do you like your USP .45 with LEM trigger?
Specifically work related:
MK18 w/ Knights suppressor and MK262 is my primary
M4 secondary/primary
Sig 226 9mm
MK 12
MK 11
MK 13 300 win mag, may surpass the MK11 in some cases, especially now I have one with a suppressor.
MK 15 ... Fun to shoot, limited match grade ammo
16" Noveske Recce Style rifle
HK USP (Tactical, Compact - 45/40)
Ideally I would like a suppressed 12.5" Noveske Crusader in 6.8 x 43mm. I would stick with my USP pistols because I'm familiar with them although Glocks and Sigs are both of quality as well. I would also recommend a large breed trained dog with a protective demeanor.
baffle Stack
03-25-07, 20:33
I would also recommend a large breed trained dog with a protective demeanor.
Now that's a tool I'd like to see in my toolbox. Worth it's weight in gold.
K.L. Davis
03-25-07, 22:26
Specifically work related:
MK 15 ... Fun to shoot, limited match grade ammo
When I first read that I though "CIWS" -- while fun to shoot, match ammo is certainly limited.
Oh well, if you said 88 the tread heads would have all thought recovery vehicle.
My go-to guns:
Rifle: Colt 6920, LaRue 7.0, Aimpoint ML2/LaRue M68 mount, Troy buis, Tangodown foregrip and pistol grip, Surefire E2D in VLTOR scout mount, Knights QD sling mounts with Wilderness Giles sling.
Pistol: Sig 228 and Glock 17
All the others are just for fun.
CCW Glock 23(wilderness safe packer). Also a Serpa thigh rig for Glock
POF 16" 415 5.56 cabine (on order) with an Acog 4X and Surefire light and a SRT can(on order).
Rem 870 with a Ziess red dot sight and a knox stock. And a 56 round bandoleer.
Anschutz 141m 22mag with a Kales scope. Sweet nutria hunting rig:D
My competition guns are my "break the glass" guns too. Living in the GWN one has to hide in plain sight with regards to martial training and firearms.
The Service Rifle:
Colt Target Sporter with C79 Elcan, this doubles as the DMR rifle.
The SHTF Carbine:
Colt 6920 with 921 upper, KAC RIS, ACOG NSN model, KAC 300m BUIS.
The Form 6 Carbine : Bone stock 6920, this one travels well south of the border.
Wife's Carbine:
Colt SP2 Carbine with Colt 4X scope, otherwise bone stock. This one may end up being a safe queen when the 6520 shows up.
Pistols:
2 x Sig P226, one set up for CCW type carry with Bade-Tech Kydex and the other with a Surefire Nitrolon and 6004.
Shotgun:
K.I.S.S. Rem 870 Wingmaster with rifle sights.
My Weapons:
1. Bushmaster 16"M4 A3 type Carbine(My favorite)
2&3. 2 ASA 16" AR-15 Carbines (one of them is for sale)
4. Robinson Arms M96 Recon Carbine (Accurate as Hell)
5. Kimber 1911 custom 45 ACP.
6. Walther P99 40 S&W
7. Dan Wesson Arms 357 Magnum Revolver
8. Mossberg 590 Shotgun
9. Smith & Wesson 25.06 Hunting Rifle.
My next purchase will be a Springfield SOCOM 16.
TheDutchman
03-29-07, 09:42
Large Handgun: Kimber Pro Combat Series I 45 ACP -Carry/IDPA
Medium Handgun: Yost Browning Hi Power Practical .40 S&W - Carry/IDPA Glock 23 - Carry/IDPA
Small Handgun: Colt Mustang II -Carry
Carbine: RRA Entry Tactical, Eotech 512, Vltor stock, RRA Dominator sight, SureFire Rail M73, KAC rail covers, SureFire G-2 light, VT sling.
Carbine 2: I am still building but I have a SBR Grenadier Precision lower, Vltor stock, Surefire Rail. I want to add a BCM 11.5 upper or LMT 10.5 upper and Eotech 512 in the future.
FB Rifle:1944 Remington 1903A3:D
No.6- you want 3 OpsInc 15th models or 3 complete rifles with 3 suppressors? Seems like overkill. I also don't think a .458 is any better suited to taking out light armor than a .308.
....
Three complete rifles. Overkill, probably not. You have a rifle that you are completely familiar with, complete set of spares available, and if need be an ability to "loan" to a friend. Light armor as in Hummer up armored and at best through the radiator. LOL Anything bigger than that, brings more firepower onboard with it. If that's the case then I'm out of there at a flat out run.
So now you are talking about taking out an up-armored hummer? I don't like the sounds of that.
Are you talking .458 through an AR platform?
I still don't understand why you'd need to loan out replica's of your AR with the same $1100 suppressors TWICE. Most friends can utilize a $300 AK well enough.
I still don't understand why you'd need to loan out replica's of your AR with the same $1100 suppressors TWICE. Most friends can utilize a $300 AK well enough.
While I don't have 3, I do have two of each AR style; two 16" and two 11.5". The "B" version of each is iron sights and very KISS. This way I have backups for myself for matches and training and "loaners" if the situation ever warranted it. All without owning any AKS.:D
So now you are talking about taking out an up-armored hummer? I don't like the sounds of that.
No terrorist here. Here's a scenerio that could/has take(n) place. Hurricane. I live in an area that does get a major storm that will disrupt society. We do have a gang problem in this town despite what the PD want's us to believe. I could see a situation where neighbors come together and have to defend their properties. A .458 through the radiator and into the engine block of a vehicle will wreck the motor and possible keep it from breaching a barricade.
Are you talking .458 through an AR platform?
Yes
I still don't understand why you'd need to loan out replica's of your AR with the same $1100 suppressors TWICE. Most friends can utilize a $300 AK well enough.
I like my friends. If it never comes to the above, fine by me. But if it does, I want as many folks on my side, alive and fighting as possible. Also, if it comes to it $1100 won't mean much at that point in time. If I had a AK then I have to have mags, ammo (unless you have a .223 AK), spares, etc that are unique to that platform, and not compatible with the AR.
My neighbor's backhoe could be pretty handy for a lot of "emergency" situations. The bulldozer too.
I've tried to fill out my collection in a way that allows me to have a tool that will fill most forseeable situations. 20", 2 16", one 11.5" and a 14.5(soon, just need an upper) AR's in the safe. 12 guage, Rem 700, AK, 10/22, a couple Glocks 19/17, a 1911, and so on.
The 11.5" BCM is the castle defense tool and is kept ready to go to work. My G19 is on my person at all times unless I am wearing my G17. The 1911 is a range gun. I love to shoot it, but it doesn't give me the warm fuzzy feeling my Glocks do.
When a situation arises, I feel like I will have the right tool to deal with it. Therefore, I don't worry much, and I enjoy training. Ultimately mindset trumps all of this stuff. You can't quantify, or put a price on the value of proper mindset. My little pea brain is the tool that gets the most attention.
"Stay alert! Stay alive!"
QuietShootr
04-01-07, 00:20
This is not ALL my toys, just the ones I consider 'core', if you will.
Small CCW: S&W Airlite Ti .357
Regular CCW: Kimber Warrior, Springfield LW 5", or Glock 19
Carbine: Colt with LMT 10.5" upper
Remington 700 20" with Gemtech suppressor
Ruger 77/22 with AWC suppressor
I can do just about everything I need to do with these.
No terrorist here. Here's a scenerio that could/has take(n) place. Hurricane. I live in an area that does get a major storm that will disrupt society. We do have a gang problem in this town despite what the PD want's us to believe. I could see a situation where neighbors come together and have to defend their properties. A .458 through the radiator and into the engine block of a vehicle will wreck the motor and possible keep it from breaching a barricade.
Yes
I like my friends. If it never comes to the above, fine by me. But if it does, I want as many folks on my side, alive and fighting as possible. Also, if it comes to it $1100 won't mean much at that point in time. If I had a AK then I have to have mags, ammo (unless you have a .223 AK), spares, etc that are unique to that platform, and not compatible with the AR.
"vehicle" is much different than "HMMV" and I read "Humvee" the first time and not just generic "vehicle."
I have read about .458 socoms through ARs being fun to do and fun to suppress. Never thought they were anything near a .50 cal BMG round or anything like a rifle round- just a large pistol caliber that behaved as such.
Correct me if I am wrong but a .308 through a radiator will cause the coolant to leak out just as fast.
DocHolliday01
04-01-07, 11:55
Mossberg 500, 18in Barrel, 7shot mag tube
Glock 21
230 Gr Golden Sabers, Trijicon NS
Glock 22
155 Gr Black Hills HP, Glock NS
Glock 27
165 Gr Winchester Ranger or 180 Gr SXT
Sabre Defence AR
SD XR15 Lower with Magpul CTR and a SD flattop carbine
Lets start out with hunting guns.
Small game, Rem1100 20ga, J.C.Higgins 12ga, 10-22
Varmits and medium game, Rem 700 .222
Larger game Rem 700 30-06
And to keep the elephants away 458WM.
For more tactical applications
Several Glocks, including Glock21 suppressed SBR
SHTF Lightweight AR-15
M1A for longer ranges
Remingtion 870
A couple AKs for other times.
Then there are several other items that I pull out as needed.
carry handguns right now ....Springfield Ultra Compact 45ACP, XD 45ACP, CZ PO1
medium handguns....4 10MM's, Super Blackhawk in 44 mag.,GP100
long range handguns...Savage Striker in 308, T/C SSK Industries 375JDJ
short range rifle....DPMS A2, British Enfield MK4 #1
long range rifle.....DPMS 20" Bull Barrel with Shepherd one-shot zero scope
M1 Garand, Swede M96 6.5x55MM
extra long range rifle...I just sold my 7MM STW and now I regret that...
shotgun...LEO turn-in Remington 870 and Stoeger 20" double barrel coach gun
My list:
CCW: Glock 19, with Laser Grips and two extended magazines of 21 rounds each.
WTSHF Kit:
-Wilson Combat CQB (Close Quarters Battle) with Rail w/Laser Grips (Under 10 yards)
-Suppressed Ruger 10/22
-Suppressed Ruger 22/45
-P-415-16-P9X-SF (SA) P-415 Semi-Full-Auto 16" Upper with POF billet lower, and ACOG TA31DOC (10-200 yards)
-Tactical M40-300 WSM 26" with Leupold Mark 4 8.5-25 illuminated TMR (200-1000 yards)
-FN FS2000 Semi-automatic 223 Rem 16" Black Synthetic (Backup to AR)
-Winchester SX2 MK2 12 Gauge Auto (Home Defense)
-Glock 34 with forward grip, Glockstock, (Fills concealable subgun niche, 25 yards or less)
-Cobb BA50TR: Bolt-Action-Repeater .50BMG Rifle 30" Barrel, Command Arms SRS Sniper Stock Leupold 16x40 Mark 4 LR/T 30mm Riflescope (500-2000 yards)
Thinking about adding the following, pending spousal approval:
-6.5 Grendel semi-auto with 24" barrel
-Armalite M-15A4TBN with Magpul PRS, Leupold 4-12x40 Mark 2 Riflescope
-Professional Arms MK5 in 9mm with replacement barrel in 45acp (Once it hits the market)
G-30/19, everyday carry and backup for more serious situations
Bush AR Lower w/Colt M4 Upper, Aimpoint M2, Surefire 951C, Primary go-to-gun
Barry in IN
04-06-07, 20:24
If I had to trim it down-
Carry guns:
1-1911 (5", steel frame, 45 ACP)
2-Browning HiPower 9mm (preferably my Yost-Bonitz SRT)
3-HK P7M8 (for the rare times when #1 and #2 are too big
4-J-frame.
But that's pretty much what I've trimmed it down to anyway.
____________________________________________
Rifle:
1-A trustworthy 16" AR15.
2-M1 Garand (my favorite rifle, but the AR15 is more useful to me)
3-Suppressed Ruger 77-22. My most used rifle. I can practice just about any day, any time, with it.
Trimming that to one- an AR.
____________________________________________
Shotgun:
1- Can I trade a shotgun slot for another rifle?
2- 870 or Ithaca 37 (probably the 37)
_______________________________________________
Trimming things to the bare minimum, I'll take:
1- 1911 or HiPower (almsot a toss-up, with a very slight edge to the 1911)
2- 16" AR
3- Garand, in .308
I'll make this my first post here.
On duty work guns are a Glock 22 and a Smith and Wesson M&P 340. I just traded a 640 for the 340 and I am loving the lighter gun
Remington 870 tactical in the rack above my head.
Colt M16A1 lower and BCG matched to a DPMS M4 type upper with Midwest Industry rails, TD vert grip and Surefire E2D in a VLTO scout mount. No optics yet, I'm waiting until I can afford quality. This is a department owned DRMO M16A1, made around 1971. Was brand new, unissued when I got my paws on it. And yes, my Chief lets us keep the happy button (auto).
Off Duty it's a Glock 27 and/or the M&P 340.
FlyAndFight
04-10-07, 16:34
Bare minimum:
G-27
G-19
Remington Police 870
AR-15 Carbine
The rest are just for fun or dups of some sort.
Ak47 and lots a bullets , ar15 colt carbine and lots a bullets , several mosin-nagants and other c and r guns with bullets , shotguns , 44 mag, 9mm pistols, and donr forget 22 semi ruger 22/45 and many thousands of rounds.Other specialty stuff ya know for special tactics and such.Oh, and a pair of excellent Steiners for safety. Now, all everyone has to do in case of major trouble, is figure how you are gonna get all the food and water to the mountains where youll be staying with your family. LOL
Are we talking about tool kits or entire gun cabinet? Half the stuff I see here isn't something I'd consider a go-to tool that I can totally depend on- lotsa gimmicky stuff.
ffhounddog
05-03-07, 16:56
Okay I will play too
I have a 16 inch middy with a Sabre Defense upper and a Cav-Arms lower. If I am wearing body armor then I will take my RRA lower off my 20inch upper and go from there.
I have a FN Police Pump Shotgun but only 60 rounds of Buckshot.
I have 2 Glocks. A Glock 19 and a Glock 26. I have plenty of Glock 17, Glock 19, and a few Glock 26 mags avaliable.
I also have a Mauser K98 and 2 Enfields as well.
Bare minimum on duty: G-22, Remington 870, and AR-15.
Bare minimum off duty: G-27.
Bare minimum home defense: Vang Comp Remington 870.
Why? The G-22 because its issued, the 870 because its reliable, and the AR because I shoot it better than anything else I own. I went with the G-27 because it held a few more rounds than the S&W J-frame I was carrying and the magazines from the G-22 will work if necessary. The Vang Comp Remington 870 seems self-explanatory; it is a devastatingly accurate weapon out to 50 yards.
I consider my "Tool Kit" my Jeep, my basic load changes from time to time but generally stays the same. I usually keep an AR Carbine or an AK, along with loaded mags, a knife and a couple smoke grenades locked in the back with a .45 and a Surefire light up front. I keep up with current local events and vary my take along tools accordingly.
I'll go now
Got a slew of guns and I know this is mostly an AR related forum but
when it comes to grab and go tools I am always locked and loaded
with my always reliable AK47 (Hungarian SA 85M w/Aimpoint ML3) w/ a 75 round drum for starters of course, (just cause all you have to do is wind her up and shes good to go).
Of all my hand guns I choose my HK USP 40
and to reach out a little further I grab my SA M1A Loaded w/leapold M1 10x tactical glass.
OH, and plenty of ammo and mags for all guns.
All the other stuff is for friends and family, but if they aint here when the little green fellers come, I gotta go.
Thats all
MAGFED:D
Glock 22 w/ M3 Light (Issued)
Glock 27
S&W 442
Remington 870 Police (Issued)
Rock River Arms AR-15 w/ Eotech Rev F (Issued) & Surefire M676
Remington 700 .308Win w/ Leupold Mk IV 4.5-14
citadelshooter
05-05-07, 18:58
Rock River M4 with Aimpoint or Burris variable 1x4 (soon to be replaced by a Leupy SPR or ACOG w/Dr.)
SIG P220 non-rail (made in west germany one) or
SIG P226 non-rail (made in germany one) or
G19
Remington 870 18"
Chest rigs, maxpedition stuff, various makes of holsters
ccw walther ppk 380
ccw sig 228 9mm
nightstand sig 220 w/crimson trace /wife sig 229 40 ns
home defense colt 6920/eotech 552/ wife sig 229 40
diasasters fn fnc assult rifle w/eotech 552/wife colt 6920 w/M4
Ok I will play....
Four hundred hours of tactical training so that I know how to use the weapons in my arsenal.
One mind focused on removing the threat.
Remember, you are the weapon.
C4
ffhounddog
05-07-07, 13:13
You are right Grant.
Training is the main thing.
I do that as well but time is getting harder and harder to come by.
Summer is here and the wife wants to go outside. Most of my training is done in the winter due to the wife not wanting to do anything.
Carry:
Glock 17 w/ G19 grip reduction
BHP MkIII
0-30:
18" Rem 870 w/ WC 1 shot ext and cadet stock
0-150:
Ruger Mini-14 - not an M4 but better than a pistol or shotgun. Waiting on BCM midlength upper.
0-uh, 500?:
My newly rehabilitated Rem LTR w/ Leupold Mk4
MOS(minute of squirrel) pack pistol:
6" Ruger MkII
5.5" Ruger Single-Six
I've got more, but this is my "Tool Box".
Too many different weapons means too many different types of ammo, so this is my toolbox. Everything else falls into my toybox. :)
AR15 16" (prefer mid-length with a gov't profile barrel)
Remington 700 in .308 Win
A shotgun would be nice, but I'm still up in the air on it.
A shotgun would be nice, but I'm still up in the air on it.
Take a look at a Vang Comp Remington 870 and you'll land very comfortably.;)
wayfarin'stranger
05-17-07, 19:25
You could look at this from a different perspective, because one could devise a pretty good reason WHY I would need a tank or WHY I would need 10 different rifles for different situations without end.
Now when the time comes when I might have to leave my house for safety reasons will I be able to carry 10 different weapons with me plus ammunition? Probably not....because sometimes the best home defense plan is leaving the home. I need something that I am very effective / comfortable with that is modular, light, and reliable.
Stick with the bare minimum that you can carry with you unless you have a dedicated safehouse/storage/Fort Knox that you would be able to secretly return to if needed to change out weapons and reload.
Spend all the extra money you would have spent on a specialized weapons for every situation imaginable on stuff like training, gear, concealed stockpiled ammunition...
Another way to look at it is to split up you resources. Are you a better marksman at long distances than your wife? Then maybe you could invest in longer range weapons while she specialized in short range shooting...Think squad tactics. Specialized teams are alot more effective than 4 individual Rambo's.
HLDefender
05-19-07, 21:19
I live in an urban area surrounded by condos. I only set up my gear for close range to 100m max:
Close Range: CQB to 75m
Remington 870P - Knoxx stock and VangComp VCS.
HK USP .45 and SigArms P226 .357Sig
Medium Range:50 to 100m
Bushmaster 16" carbine 1/9 with EOTech
SKS carbine for enhanced penetration if needed
Precision rifle : Bushmaster 20" HBAR 1/9 with VX III 1-5x.
I only use m193 in the carbine and 69gr in the HBAR.
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y24/HOMELANDEFENDER/2003_0331TedsBigAdventure0003.jpg
HLD...
I did 19 months in Nam and over 30+ years in law enforcement. In Nam during my last 7 months I used an XM-21 (M1A/M-14 type) sniper rifle, a Colt 1911 pistol and a Buck knife to cover all my "social needs."
In law enforcement I've used Glock pistols, Dan Wesson 1911 Patriot pistols and Sig pistols (P-220 in .45 and P-226 in 9mm). For rifles on duty I've used/carried M1As, AR-15s and SAR-1s. For last ditch shooting I've always carried a small caliber .25/.32 auto or a snub-nosed .38 revolver. Of course, I've also always carried some form of knife too.
My overall preference for SHTF will end up being an M1A or SAR-1 rifle w/scope, a Glock for primary pistol, a Ruger snub-nosed .357 revolver for back-up, a decent sheath knife and a good multi-tool knife or Swiss Army type of knife. In addition, I will also have a hatchet or a hammer and some kind of saw to use. Then I'll also have para-cord, fishing line, string and so on in a back pack or belt pack along with food, water, and a limited amount of medicines to cover for about a 2 week period or until I can get clear of any area of trouble or disaster.
I have a very short list
a G17 . Because it goes Bang EVERY time I press the trigger. It's simple.reliable and with the proper training and mindset.. I will kill you with it as sure as your standing there if it comes to that.
My BCM/LMT AR Carbine with Aimpoint and Light..
Again.. it's reliable, works in any light condition, I have intimate knowledge and practice with it and have mucho muscle memory with it. and if your within 300 meters of me and I have to kill you.. it will.
That's pretty much it... everything else, I can live with out if I have to.
Nice!
watchluvr4ever
09-22-07, 14:30
LMT CQB MRP w/ 16" barrel
customized Browning Hi-Power
Remington 870
Mauser rifle
RogerinTPA
09-22-07, 15:53
Here's mine:
1. Colt/SDI 16" HD (Home defense to 300yards)
2. Remington 1187 (Home defense/Trunk gun)
3. Beretta PX4 Storm .40 (CCW/Living room gun)
4. CCW/Vehicle guns: Glock 23, M&P 9c and CZ 82 (9x18)
5. Ruger 10-22 Plinking/small game hunting(Damn accurate)
In the end, it's all a tool box. Your situation and location when the SHTF, will govern what you will have to fight with. When you're cut off from home, you fight with what you have. Training trumps firepower.
"Age and treachery will defeat youth and strength"
IrishDevil
09-22-07, 19:20
While I own many firearms this is my list of "go to":
CCW: Kahr K9
CCW/MidSize: Glock 19 (my favorite all around handgun)
FullSize: Glock 34/35 and my Kimber TLE/RL(this is my main HD handgun)
Carbine: 16" middy CMMG AR w/ Eotech
Shotgun: 870 w/ 18.5" and surefire forend, simple bead sight
I have several other reliable guns, but these are the most reached for.
I will say that I recently picked up a Krebs KTR-03S and have taken a real liking to it. It may be on the "go to" list before long.
Living in Gulfport on the MS coast, I experienced Katrina firsthand. It wasn't pretty, social order broke down for about 2-3 full days and got better rather rapidly from there, luckily not to the extent New Orleans did. I found great comfort in my ability to easily pack my G19, and had my 870 on stand by.
Not including any hunting or C&R guns, my toolbox:
Kimber TLE II .45cal. (cool weather ccw), 6 Wilson mags
Dan Wesson CBOB .45cal (warm weather ccw), 6 CMC mags
Browning HP 9mm, 8 factory mags
Sig P239 9mm (wifes handgun), 5 factory mags
Ruger 10/45 Heavy barrel target .22, 4 factory mags
Colt 6721LE 16" carbine w/1-3x22 scope, light, 25 mags (my 3gun carbine)
Colt 6721LE 16" carbine w/ Aimpoint, light, 25 mags (my training gun)
DoubleStar/JT 20" SS 1/8 FF Hbar rifle w/ 3-9x42 Burris, Timney trigger, 25 mags
Fulton Armory FAR-15 SBR lower w/CMMG 11.5 upper, Aimpoint ML3 in LaRue mount, LaRue buis.
ArmaLite AR180B 18" rifle, 11 mags (my seldom-needs-cleaning-but-reliable plinker)
DSA SA58 7.62 carbine, 48 mags ( have a NIW CL 21" barrel that will be going on this soon)
Mossberg 18" pump shotgun w/ghost ring sights and side saddle
Canonshooter
09-23-07, 10:33
I will say that I recently picked up a Krebs KTR-03S and have taken a real liking to it. It may be on the "go to" list before long.
I feel the same about my Krebs AK-103k - I have far more confidence in it than my BM M4gery. Since my intentions in any SHTF scenario would be strictly last-ditch defensive, a good carbine is all I need for a rifle and the Krebs fits that task perfectly. IMO, the best way to survive an armed confrontation is to do everything possible to avoid it in the first place.
I am firmly in the camp that prefers fewer tools and more skills.
I've been a competetive pistol shooter for over 25 years - bullseye, IPSC/IDPA, NRA action pistol, bowling pins and PPC. The S&W k-frames fit my small hands like a glove and I prefer double-action to single-action with them. I had a 1911 for years but could never shoot it as well as the S&W revolvers. But for the last 7 years it's been all Glock 17. Like some have stated above, use what you shoot best and I have truly made "a connection" in terms of shooting competence/comfort with the Glock. I have some Blackhawk carry gear for the pistol, mags, M6x light/laser and Streamlight TL2 handheld.
Beyond the pistol and rifle, I also consider a good set of protective goggles (http://www.safetyglassesusa.com/77.html) and electronic hearing protection (http://www.botachtactical.com/peltac6ster.html) as vitally important. Ringing ears and/or impaired vision will not serve me well if someone is shooting at me.
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