View Full Version : Priest "My advice,... is to shoplift."
http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/europe/12/22/uk.priest.sermon.shoplift/index.html
Priest: Thou shalt not steal (unless it's from big business)
London, England (CNN) -- A UK priest has defended his comments that it is acceptable to steal from large companies.
Tim Jones, parish priest of St Lawrence and St Hilda, told his congregation in York, northern England: "My advice, as a Christian priest, is to shoplift."
Jones, who according to the church Web site previously worked in Corinth, Mississippi, made his comments about what he regarded as acceptable behavior by those in need when they were desperate.
In a transcript of his sermon published in the local newspaper, "The Press," Jones said: "I do not offer such advice because I think that stealing is a good thing, or because I think it is harmless, for it is neither.
"I would ask that they do not steal from small family businesses, but from large national businesses, knowing that the costs are ultimately passed on to the rest of us in the form of higher prices."
Jones told CNN affiliate ITN Monday that his advice was directed at those with nothing and who had exhausted all other legal avenues to survive, such as state benefits.
While it was never right to shoplift, Jones said, it was the most acceptable alternative for those in desperate need compared with prostitution, burglary or other criminal offenses.
The Web site for St Hilda's states that Jones has served as a prison chaplain and that his interests include international justice and fair trade issues.
"I would say to those people that are outraged: Compare how much you are spending on yourself this Christmas compared to how much you have given to people in desperate situations," Jones told ITN.
In his sermon Sunday Jones called on anyone planning to steal not to take more than they need for longer than they need, saying that he offered his advice with a heavy heart. He added that his advocacy of shoplifting was a "grim indictment" of society and a plea for help for the most vulnerable.
But Jones' church bosses failed to back his call. In a statement on the Web site for the Diocese of York Tuesday, Richard Seed, Archdeacon of York said: "The Church of England does not advise anyone to shoplift, or break the law in any way.
"Fr Tim Jones is raising important issues about the difficulties people face when benefits are not forthcoming, but shoplifting is not the way to overcome these difficulties.
"There are many organizations and charities working with people in need, and the Citizens' Advice Bureau is a good first place to call."
Wow, I cannot believe what comes out of some people's mouths!
Buckaroo
Man, I thought number 8 pretty much covered this.
ThirdWatcher
12-22-09, 22:04
Just another phony pretending he was called by God to be a priest.
Like any of that would save him from the hellhole they created called the UK.
Of all the harm a priest can potentially do to his followers, that is actually pretty low on the list.
Surely he was only talking about those who use "happy holidays".
SeriousStudent
12-22-09, 23:35
Therefore, I would advice that priests only embezzle from large churches, not small ones........ :rolleyes:
We do not turn away hungry people at our church. We do not give money, but we do give food and water.
kaiservontexas
12-22-09, 23:59
Why not when his Archbishop of Canterbury says Sharia law should be permitted in the land.
Therefore, I would advice that priests only embezzle from large churches, not small ones........ :rolleyes:
I would suggest that you only steal from collection plates in churches that advocate stealing from others.
;)
ThirdWatcher
12-23-09, 01:03
I would suggest that you only steal from collection plates in churches that advocate stealing from others.
;)
Outstanding!!! :D
do wrong so that maybe something good will come of it.
more likely, people are just gonna end up in jail.
what happens when you're given a license to just take whatever you want? i'm quite sure the Bible forbids stealing for a pretty good reason.
if, somehow, someway, i'd ****ed up so bad that i'd gotten my family into some horrible situation where stealing would make the difference between life and death, then yes- i would steal. but to lay out a blanket condonement of a sinful and illegal activity is neglegient.
So I can shoplift from Macy's but not be a prostitute...GOT IT
Submariner
12-23-09, 07:53
Thou shalt not steal (except by majority vote.)
America. F*ck yeah!
FlyAndFight
12-23-09, 08:57
Thou shalt not steal (except by majority vote.)
America. F*ck yeah!
:D :D :D
MarshallDodge
12-23-09, 09:12
You know that silly 8th commandment is just getting in the way. :rolleyes:
So I can shoplift from Macy's but not be a prostitute...GOT IT
And birth control is a sin.
John_Wayne777
12-23-09, 12:16
They are referred to as the ten commandments...not the ten suggestions.
...and there is no amendment process.
"6 But we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you withdraw from every brother who walks disorderly and not according to the tradition which he received from us. 7 For you yourselves know how you ought to follow us, for we were not disorderly among you; 8 nor did we eat anyone’s bread free of charge, but worked with labor and toil night and day, that we might not be a burden to any of you, 9 not because we do not have authority, but to make ourselves an example of how you should follow us.
10 For even when we were with you, we commanded you this: If anyone will not work, neither shall he eat. 11 For we hear that there are some who walk among you in a disorderly manner, not working at all, but are busybodies. 12 Now those who are such we command and exhort through our Lord Jesus Christ that they work in quietness and eat their own bread."
2nd Thessalonians 3
I'm beyond the point of frustration with all of the politics that are bleeding into various denominations these days. Those of you who have not read the letter the United Methodists bishops sent out to churches in their denomination ought to do so.
Just have a bucket nearby so you have something to catch the vomit.
WTF is this guy talking about??? Sounds like he's pitching for the other team.
kaiservontexas
12-23-09, 12:53
I'm beyond the point of frustration with all of the politics that are bleeding into various denominations these days.
It is getting to the point where it is hard to tolerate.
And birth control is a sin.
Yeah...hence the fact my sister who had a full ride scholarship to Harvard got pregnant 6 months before High School Graduation. Because taking birth control away from teenagers is going to force them to practice abstinence!
WTF is this guy talking about??? Sounds like he's pitching for the other team.
hahaha..Im sitting here thinking "What does this have to do with being gay?"
by other team you mean El Diablo?
Perhaps he's trying to put the focus on the sin of steeling vs one of touching little boys inappropriately.
And birth control is a sin.
i dont remember that part
Yeah...hence the fact my sister who had a full ride scholarship to Harvard got pregnant 6 months before High School Graduation. Because taking birth control away from teenagers is going to force them to practice abstinence!
Oh....wow.
Not sure who started the whole thing but I know the current pope is pretty against birth control.
i dont remember that part
Depends on the church and how they interpret the Bible. You may very well attend a sane church and not be aware of such things.
Depends on the church and how they interpret the Bible. You may very well attend a sane church and not be aware of such things.
it's a primarily catholic thing.. the bible doesn't say anything about birth control as we know it. Onan was struck dead by God for pulling out of Tamar, rather than give her his seed and continue his brother's line... but i really think that was specific to Onan and his contempt for God's law- not for preventing the conception.
the catholics, on the other hand, believe the pope's "bulls" are universally binding ordnance. so if the pope says birth control is a sin, it's a sin. you won't find that in literalist protestant sects.. but you can find individual literalist christians who are opposed to birth control for their own reasons (my house, for instance)... but they're unlikely to tell you it's "sin." only God can decide what's sin and isn't, and He's yet to make that ruling.
whether or not birth control is a sin has any bearing on non-marital sex and teenage pregnancy, however... even if birth control isn't a "sin," non-marital sex still is. so the birth-control debate is pointless, in that regard.
Regardless of your beliefs on pre-marital sex, it's better to have birth control present during pre-marital sex than not have it. I've seen too many classmates fall victim to their near blind allegiance to religion. They would have pre-marital sex at a party, refuse to use birth control or have any on hand in case of the near inevitable, and in turn end up with a pregnant girl or pregnant themselves. Morally opposed to abortion and birth control to begin with, the woman would keep the child. Consequently they'd get married to uphold their beliefs and try to somehow negate the fact that they already sinned.
Anyways...theft from the little guy or the big guy is wrong either way. Doesn't matter what your religion is. I think of it as a moral issue of living in civilization.
Regardless of your beliefs on pre-marital sex, it's better to have birth control present during pre-marital sex than not have it. I've seen too many classmates fall victim to their near blind allegiance to religion. They would have pre-marital sex at a party, refuse to use birth control or have any on hand in case of the near inevitable, and in turn end up with a pregnant girl or pregnant themselves. Morally opposed to abortion and birth control to begin with, the woman would keep the child. Consequently they'd get married to uphold their beliefs and try to somehow negate the fact that they already sinned.
it's not "blind allegiance to religion" that caused teenage pregnancy, its blatant disregard of religion that caused it, in the scenario you present.
i agree- if you're going to have non-marital sex and don't want to conceive a child, then you'd better use some form of birth-control. but there's not any way to put a religious or anti-religious spin on that... if you're engaging in non-marital sex, you're most likely not abiding by the laws/rules/ordanances of any organized faith, christian or otherwise. why would the question even come up at that point?
it's not "blind allegiance to religion" that caused teenage pregnancy, its blatant disregard of religion that caused it, in the scenario you present.
i agree- if you're going to have non-marital sex and don't want to conceive a child, then you'd better use some form of birth-control. but there's not any way to put a religious or anti-religious spin on that... if you're engaging in non-marital sex, you're most likely not abiding by the laws/rules/ordanances of any organized faith, christian or otherwise. why would the question even come up at that point?
Well put.
They are referred to as the ten commandments...not the ten suggestions.
...and there is no amendment process.
Just wait, the good ol catholics will fix that. Then ten commandments will soon become a "living document" and get liberalized like no other. Its a shame.
it's a primarily catholic thing.. the bible doesn't say anything about birth control as we know it. Onan was struck dead by God for pulling out of Tamar, rather than give her his seed and continue his brother's line... but i really think that was specific to Onan and his contempt for God's law- not for preventing the conception.
the catholics, on the other hand, believe the pope's "bulls" are universally binding ordnance. so if the pope says birth control is a sin, it's a sin. you won't find that in literalist protestant sects.. but you can find individual literalist christians who are opposed to birth control for their own reasons (my house, for instance)... but they're unlikely to tell you it's "sin." only God can decide what's sin and isn't, and He's yet to make that ruling.
whether or not birth control is a sin has any bearing on non-marital sex and teenage pregnancy, however... even if birth control isn't a "sin," non-marital sex still is. so the birth-control debate is pointless, in that regard.
Is it just me or does it seem weird that people who call themselves Christians and belong to the Catholic church follow a HUMAN BEING like he's God himself? Where in the Bible does it say any man or woman has to go through another man or woman to get to God? Or how priests can forgive sins? Im pretty sure it was made clear the opposite. I think its funny that the pope can make up whatever he wants and disregard any part of the bible he wants and people follow like lemmings. DRINK THE KOOLAID:rolleyes:. Nobody should put that kind of trust in a human being, we (mankind) are just to corrupt, we are in fact inherently evil whether we like it or not. Its a joke IMO
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