View Full Version : Trying to decide...HiPower, 92, or CZ75
I have decided to go away from polymer for my next handgun. I want a 9mm for the ammo. It is so cheap to shoot. I am thinking CZ75 but I am not sold on anything. I love my 1911 so I am also thinking Hi Power, then again the Beretta 92 is also very appealing. Reliability is #1 and I am also looking for something easy to clean and maintain. Of the three the Hi Power is the only one I actually have fired. What say you?
SeaSoldier
03-17-07, 18:45
If it were me. I love the HiPower, however customization would be needed for optimum use. Again for me, I would need to add approx $500 to the purchase price for the parts and work desired. The CZ line of pistols are nice, but try finding parts if something breaks. The Beretta is a large pistol, but utterly reliable quite accurate. I would mention the S&W M&P9 however you mentioned leaving the tupperware.
92FSs are nice to suppress!
http://www1.zoto.com/suicidehz/img/51/1e759fda3b7a08acc9ab88f9ba0ce8d4.jpg
If you want to hook up sometime for the range you are welcome to give my 92FS a work out.
I have had Hi Powers, and while great pistols, they chew my hand up. I view the CZ as an updated Hi Power with a double action option.
I'd love to hook up. I need to get that M1 carbine out for a workout too. My range is closed because of a freaking bike trail going in. :mad:
I love my M9 the only drawback is the perm fixed front sight. Ever consider a 1911 in 9mm? I picked up a Belguim Hipower when they were going for 399.00 which was a steal. The only drawback on the CZ, Highpower is the high price of mags. The 92 mags can be found with the sandbox treatment for under 20bucks which isnt bad at all.
you can have the front sight removed and a dovetail milled in although that is a bit pricy.
Glock 17 with rails and night sights. Get some 20 round magazines and a flashlight that you can attach to the pistol. You get your 9 mm bullet, a good dependable gun that is easy to maintain and you can have attachments as you want. Glocks are dependable and a tad cheaper to buy than most other 9 mm pistols.
I have a TZ 75 (cz clone) ,never skipped a beat, also have a RAMI just as reliable so far. CZ is a good option and fairly well priced too. Just my .02
Glock 17 with rails and night sights. Get some 20 round magazines and a flashlight that you can attach to the pistol. You get your 9 mm bullet, a good dependable gun that is easy to maintain and you can have attachments as you want. Glocks are dependable and a tad cheaper to buy than most other 9 mm pistols.
I have a 17. Looking for an additional 9mm hi-cap pistol.
I think you guys have me sold on the 92.
Of the choices listed, I'd go with the M9 simply for the cheap/plentiful parts available.
Scour Gunbroker for a 92G Elite. The Brigadier slide is the way to go.
I prefer the Hi-Power to the 92FS or CZ, but I do/have owned all three at some point. FWIW, EGW does a HP beaver tail for $175 as opposed to 400+ like C&S, YoBo, or Novaks. It makes th Hi-Power nearly perfect.
CZs are good, since they cost $300 and run forever.
Matt Edwards
03-18-07, 09:58
I 2nd, 3rd and 4th the 92fs. I've owned a few. for reasons I can never explain i've sold them. I'm still kicking my self.
I'd very much take M4G's advice, he MAY know what he's talking about.;)
Matt
can't go wrong with a HP ;)
I don't like double action guns that much...that's why I don't own a 92 even if I'm italian :eek:
http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/5249/bhp1ag0.th.jpg (http://img150.imageshack.us/my.php?image=bhp1ag0.jpg) http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/2024/bhp2yq9.th.jpg (http://img441.imageshack.us/my.php?image=bhp2yq9.jpg) http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/8059/bhp3zy1.th.jpg (http://img150.imageshack.us/my.php?image=bhp3zy1.jpg) http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/7460/bhp4xt3.th.jpg (http://img299.imageshack.us/my.php?image=bhp4xt3.jpg)
I recently bought a new Italian made 92FS for 449.00 which is cheap. I like that the new mags hold 17rounds but dont like the price. The new 90-Two is nifty looking.
militarymoron
03-18-07, 21:41
definitely go out and shoot them all if you can. different strokes for different folks. i've had two beretta 92's which i sold. i love the look of the 92 (i think it was the movie 'lethal weapon' that prompted me to go out and get a 92F), but just didn't ever like the way it felt in my hand, compared to some other handguns.
i've had two brownings and sold one to finance another 1911 purchase, but i really like the way they feel. probably my favourite 'feeling' handgun as i have small hands, and the most 'natural pointing' due to the narrow slide that steps down at the front. the hi-power is also easier to conceal than the large 92.
the only thing i don't like about the hi-power is the relatively long trigger reset (i didn't want to drill another hole in the slide to install the C&S trigger bar).
I bought a 92FS when I was told I'd be sent TAD to security while in the Navy. I figured I'd better get used to it since all I shot were Glocks and 1911's. I really liked the 92FS' ergonomics. The grip and slide release were perfect for me. I didn't like the slide mounted safety/ decocker. If it wasn't for that safety I might have qualed expert the first time up. Instead of using the slide release like the first few reloads, I did the slingshot method like I do on my Glock. It flipped the safety and decocked the pistol causing me to take time to flip it off then rush the shot with a heavy trigger pull. Yep I blame that:p
I found I'm just not as accurate with it and traded it for a used Colt Government Model when I got out of the Navy. Sometimes I wish I didn't get rid of it, but that's just the collector in me.
I've never shot a CZ or HP. Been interested in an HP for a while.
Been eye-balling a used Sig 9mm sitting in the shop though.
The most trouble free, long term would be the 92FS. Mine was great, I gave it to my brother because he needed a pistol. My current CCW is my 9mm BHP MkIII. I carried it since Oct 2005, sidelined it for a Glock 17, and now it is back on duty while my Glock is at Bowie Tactical.
It has the best ergos of any pistol, is flat, single action. I love it. I went w/ the Glock because I feel it has the edge in reliability and long term durability.
I would buy a FN HP, shoot it like crazy then send it off for a reliability package (if needed) and night sights.
If you're a 1911 fan, than why WOULDN'T you go Browning?
CZs are good guns too, so that'd be my 2nd choice.
Berettas arent bad guns, but Im extremely biased against slide mounted safeties, especially if one if habituated to the frame mounted/down for fire mode of operation.
John_Wayne777
03-19-07, 14:35
I have decided to go away from polymer for my next handgun. I want a 9mm for the ammo. It is so cheap to shoot. I am thinking CZ75 but I am not sold on anything. I love my 1911 so I am also thinking Hi Power, then again the Beretta 92 is also very appealing. Reliability is #1 and I am also looking for something easy to clean and maintain. Of the three the Hi Power is the only one I actually have fired. What say you?
Is this meant to be a carry/duty weapon, or mainly a range toy?
Any of your options are sufficient as range toys.
For a carry/duty weapon I would advise getting some trigger time on each of them and figuring out which one works best for you. The HP is an extremely nice weapon...once it has had a little work. Typically they can benefit greatly from some trigger work. The work is expensive, but worth it if you talk to custom HP owners.
Personally mine is bone stock, but I have never fired more than 50 rounds through it:
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y16/jwayne_777/hipower.jpg?t=1174332947
I am also partial to the Beretta 92. My personal Beretta has been worked over by Ernie Langdon before being refinished and having the night sights redone. It is one heck of a sweet shooter:
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y16/jwayne_777/92fs.jpg?t=1174333026
This will be a plinker. Polymer takes abuse so much better.
I don't think either of the 3 are made in polymer. Being a plinker would mean it sees no serious use and wouldn't matter, right?
I don't think either of the 3 are made in polymer. Being a plinker would mean it sees no serious use and wouldn't matter, right?
Exactly right. Which is why he said he doesn't want another polymer gun...in his first post ;) :p
Trying to stay on topic, I've always wanted to run a few rounds through one of the CZ 75 SP-01s.
Wow. I thought he was a responder. Forgot he was original poster. He really has me confused on that statement. I thought he was the guy suggesting Glocks for the second time... sorry.
Sorry, I confuse myself sometimes.
BHP.
I despise the Beretta 92 series guns -- the only usefull thing with them is ease of supression -- and their are better guns for that anyway.
I dont mind CZ's but for some reason its just not the same as the BHP.
I've never had problems with getting bit by the BHP - but I've seen enough others get it done to say that M4Guru's comments are bang on.
Whats up with all the Beretta 92 hate among most gun owners? I can't understand why so many people hate them. Although I dont own one and don't plan to, I've shot them on many occasions and never had any issues with them.
I dislike the 92 due to the grip size and trigger reach.
I HATE the 92 due to the position of the safety and the manner in which it engages -- in doing most "normal" pistol drills you will likley advertantly decock and safe the Beretta.
Most of the Group SF guys have managed to "find" 1911's in the system -- so its obviously not just a few people that think the 92 is crap.
I'd take a 1944 Inglis Hipower over the 92.
Pat_Rogers
03-21-07, 07:50
I carried an issued BHP for 5 years. The gun felt right (considering the father, no surprise...) and have nothing bad to say about it (and we put a lot of rounds downrange with them...)
I will voice my hatred of the M9 as well, for all of what Kevin states. Additionally, reliability sucks.
I have seen a number of slides crack (including 2 in 2 days by the same PJ) 2 frames crack and a buttload of locking blocks and trigger springs.
It is non ergonomic, fat, and another poor solution to a non existent problem.
I can shoot it well, but shooting and fighting are not the same.
John_Wayne777
03-21-07, 08:45
I have seen a number of slides crack (including 2 in 2 days by the same PJ) 2 frames crack and a buttload of locking blocks and trigger springs.
For what it's worth, Wolff makes a replacement part that does away with the notoriously fragile trigger springs.
http://www.gunsprings.com/images/Trigger.JPG
I have them in my Beretta pistols and they seem to be very good. My first handgun was a 92FS (the chrome plated one pictured...it looks much prettier than it used to thanks to the refinish) and it did indeed eat trigger springs like candy. Since switching to the Wolff TCU I haven't had to worry about that issue. Why the military doesn't buy a bunch of these and retrofit their M9s with them I don't know....
If I remember correctly the INS put them in their .40 cal Berettas and had good results.
One of the intrinsic downsides of the 92 platform is staying ahead of its maintenance schedule. The old style 92 locking blocks were supposed to be replaced every 8,000 rounds. (New redesigned ones are supposed to have a 30,000 round lifespan) Trigger springs at something like every 3,000 rounds, etc. Staying ahead of that schedule is hard to do....especially if you are tasked with maintaining the weapons of SF types who do a lot more pistol shooting than most other folks who are issued pistols.
At a recent training I got the chance to spend some time with a group of guys from the 3rd SFG from Bragg, and their main gripe with the Beretta (other than it's 9mm caliber's underwhelming performance on intermediate barriers like vehicles) was how often they had to have them serviced. To a man they all preferred the .45 caliber 1911 if they could get their hands on one.
I have decided to go away from polymer for my next handgun. I want a 9mm for the ammo...I am thinking CZ75...Hi Power...Beretta 92 is also very appealing.
Aren't there more options? :D
Robb Jensen
03-24-07, 11:02
Hi-power
CZ75
Beretta
In that order. Though the Beretta is a great shooter and I do own a few. I don't think it should have been the pistol chosen as the US Military sidearm in 1985. I've always thought the SIG P226 should have been the M9.
I think you should look at a P226 as well. You can get a good deal on a CPO 226 for fairly cheap when compared to the price of a new one.
My vote goes to CZ75.
The BHP and 92 are both beautiful guns but I'm not too keen on 9mm or .40 s&w. (Personal preference.)
The CZ97B shoots very well but my friend who owns it shoots it way better than me. He loves the gun. However, that is a .45 and you may get different results. It is a good design though. YMMV.
The Beretta 92 series is a very smooth shooting gun. I always did well with it during military quals. But... the safety is in a, well - stupid location. In fact the USAF wouldn't allow us to carry them on safe. The safety was strictly for decocking the weapon. It is also a bit on the large size for grip, concealment, etc. The largest hurdle for these weapons IMO is the DA/SA trigger. I find that whole concept stupid, but at best it is difficult to master.
I have limited experience with CZ guns, but they are very good pistols from what I have seen and others have relayed. One thing I do not favor is that having the frame on the outside of the slide makes for a thin gripping surface if you have to work the slide during immediate action. It does allow for C&L carry, so that is huge in my book. Also having the safety in the proper location is key.
The Hi-Power is my favorite of the three you mentioned. Amazing ergonomics, C&L carry, safety in proper location and LOTS of aftermarket possibilities. I believe it will be the easiest to conceal of the three and there is a reason teams like HRT and the SAS used them for so many years. For me this would be no contest as the Hi-Power takes them and then some.
Barry in IN
04-04-07, 15:16
I wouldn't say that truly dislike any of the three, but I really love the HiPower.
Since you like the 1911 (me too), I'll say this, if it helps:
I waffle back and forth between big bullets and more bullets since I can see an argument either way, so I switch between the HiPower and 1911. I'll carry a 1911 for a few months, then carry a HiPower.
I usually don't care for swapping carry guns, but feel I can get away with it here. The controls and general operation is basically the same, the general feel is similar, I have the same sights on them, the triggers CAN be similar (at least they are more alike than going from a 1911 to a DA).
If you have any intention of rotating between the 1911 and whatever you choose, I'd suggest the HiPower.
As far as durability goes, I think the HiPower does fine if it is maintained like any other pistol should be and gets recoil springs changed when needed, old magazines trashed, etc. My oldest one was bought used, and was pretty worn when I got it and fed it a few thousand more rounds. It rattles when shook and is mostly retired, but I still use it now and then and it works fine. I got it out for a class late last summer just for fun, and ended up carrying it and putting another 4,000 through it before year's end.
Speaking of classes, I really value what I hear full-time instructors say. They see more rounds fired in a week than most people do in a lifetime, they see almost every gun made, and know what works and what doesn't. I shot my old rattletrap HiPower in one of Louis Awerbuck's classes last year and he had nothing but praise for them. He said he couldn't remember seeing a problem with them.
It seems like getting much praise from him is an accomplishment, and he had plenty for HiPowers.
But like any other gun, they aren't perfect.
You may get all kinds of advice on what changes are "needed". But I wouldn't change anything until you've shot one a while. I know that is said for every gun, but I think it's especially true for the HiPower since a lot of things depend on the individual user. Some people get hammer bite, while others never do. Some hate the sights and some love them. Others don't like the long trigger reset (compaed to 1911s) but others never notice.
I get bit by most of the HiPower hammers out there, so need that fixed. The best solution for me is to bob the standard hammer spur by a couple of serrations. I like Heinie sights, but don't need them. Any number of smiths can install sights. A handful of good smiths can put a good trigger on them. Sure, that all adds up, but 1) You may not need to do any of that, and 2) You should still have the same or less in it than buying a "factory premium" 1911, and 3) You have a 9mm that's tough to top.
About that trigger: The trigger pull seems to be the most often mentioned complaint about HiPowers. From what I've seen, they vary a lot. Some are terrible, but some are not bad. I got my first one and wondered what the fuss was about because the trigger was fine. I got another one later, and I learned what the fuss was about because it was terrible, and still the worst I've had. If you can shop around, you might find one with a useable trigger.
I tried Berettas, thinking their sheer size might make them extremely durable. They proved less durable than my HiPowers, so I saw little point in carrying around a larger gun for no gain.
I had one CZ, and it was just fine, but I didn't see that it did anything a HiPower would not.
But that's my opinion, whatever that's worth.
olds442tyguy
04-04-07, 19:05
Out of the three, I'd say go for what you shoot best. For me, that's the 92.
I know I'm going to get flamed endlessly for this, but if it's strictly a plinker and you don't like slide mounted safeties, why not go for a Taurus? My buddy has a PT101 that has a few thousand rounds of +P through it with no issues. I know they have a hit and miss reputation, but lately it seems they're giving their autos the attention they deserve. I'm still in disbelief, but when I looked at an M9A1 next to the railed PT92, I quickly became dissappointed with the Beretta's fit and finish.
I think I'll go paint myself with a ceramic thermal barrier coating now. :eek:
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