View Full Version : Question about AR brands ?
vietboy1st
12-25-09, 22:54
I am wondering who made the best AR15 rifle out there included parts out there ?:rolleyes:
Check this out. It shows all major players in quality AR makers.
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=pwswheghNQsEuEhjFwPrgTA
billybronco
12-25-09, 23:49
Hmmmm....
Failure2Stop
12-26-09, 01:37
Define your use and expected performance.
vietboy1st
12-30-09, 19:22
I can't find anything. I thought the more money you paid for your ar15 the better. Mostly Colt ar is the most expensive . Why ? Or because they made it for the us military and around the world ? I think Colt is ripping people off. Because you guys are paying fo the brand name not the quality ? That is my opinion if i am wrong please fix.
GeorgiaBoy
12-30-09, 19:33
Troll? :confused:
William B.
12-30-09, 19:50
I can't find anything. I thought the more money you paid for your ar15 the better. Mostly Colt ar is the most expensive . Why ? Or because they made it for the us military and around the world ? I think Colt is ripping people off. Because you guys are paying fo the brand name not the quality ? That is my opinion if i am wrong please fix.
The extra quality control that Colt and the other top AR15 manufacturers put into the production of their weapons costs these companies extra money. That's why they ask more for their product.
number1olddog
12-30-09, 19:51
Can we stop with the who is better than who?
1. BCM
2. LMT
3. Ok. COLT
4. Daniel Defense
5. Noveske
6. Larue
7. Sabre
in no particular order by the way:D
Troll? :confused:
I think so.
If not, I will post this again.
http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pwswheghNQsEuEhjFwPrgTA&gid=5
Outlander Systems
12-30-09, 19:59
Who cares?
In Taxachussetts, you'd probably be better served by owning a Marlin 30/30. At least you could own one without having to settle for a bastard version of it.
Just sayin'.
I am wondering who made the best AR15 rifle out there included parts out there ?:rolleyes:
It totally depends upon what your end use is......... range plinker, competition rifle, duty weapon, Home Defense. There are guns on the market that will serve in any but the harshest extremes without issues that are not that expensive, and then there are the opposite extreme the go anywhere, do anything, and live to tell about it guns.
I would rank the top ones as in no order-
BCM, LMT, Colt, Noveske, Sabre Defense, Daniel Defense, Armalite
then
RRA, Doublestar, Stag, Bushmaster, DPMS
I've seen expensive guns choke and stop working, and I've seen cheapos run like a champ so it truly depends on many different factors.
what do people think about someone new jumping into the black rifle bandwagon and buying a 1500 rifle? i always thought of starting off slow, something simple and easy to use.
William B.
12-30-09, 22:16
what do people think about someone new jumping into the black rifle bandwagon and buying a 1500 rifle? i always thought of starting off slow, something simple and easy to use.
My first AR15 was a RRA upper on an LAR lower. It was hard to use because I was always trying to unseat my bolt that was getting stuck in the chamber. I got what I payed for... less actually :( My Colt is much easier to use. It functions properly.
The better the gun you buy, the more fun you will have at the range and the easier it will be to use... not that you shouldn't be able to clear stoppages and what not. You just shouldn't have to very often.
BCM, then LMT, and Colt 3rd? Not by most informed users standards. Possibly a toss up b/w Colt and BCM, but that's with diff. priorities. If Colt is a 10, then BCM is 9.9. Just my .02.
sundance435
12-30-09, 22:45
I can't find anything. I thought the more money you paid for your ar15 the better. Mostly Colt ar is the most expensive . Why ? Or because they made it for the us military and around the world ? I think Colt is ripping people off. Because you guys are paying fo the brand name not the quality ? That is my opinion if i am wrong please fix.
Is this for real? You ask who makes the best AR, which leads me to believe you haven't done a bit of research, and then you follow up with something like this? What in your vast knowledge of AR's leads you to this conclusion?
SWATcop556
12-30-09, 23:44
I can't find anything. I thought the more money you paid for your ar15 the better. Mostly Colt ar is the most expensive . Why ? Or because they made it for the us military and around the world ? I think Colt is ripping people off. Because you guys are paying fo the brand name not the quality ? That is my opinion if i am wrong please fix.
I'll be as polite as I can and try to to come across as an asshole. Before you tell people what they are paying too much for, try some research here. Read, read, read, and then when you think you've read enough, read some more.
Your post showcases how little you've read here before asking IMHO a stupid question followed up with a bold and completely incorrect statement.
Best of luck to you.
My choice is BCM, LMT, Noveske, and DD. Research to see why.
BCM, then LMT, and Colt 3rd? Not by most informed users standards. Possibly a toss up b/w Colt and BCM, but that's with diff. priorities. If Colt is a 10, then BCM is 9.9. Just my .02.
As I said no particular order, I personally don't like Colt but there are excellent alternatives.
I'm sorry, I didn't mean to be a thread stealer. And I also didn't mean to make it sound like you are new to AR's.
justin_247
12-31-09, 01:25
I'm sorry, I didn't mean to be a thread stealer. And I also didn't mean to make it sound like you are new to AR's.
A Colt 6920 is not a $1500 rifle, either. $1125 at Code 4 Sales and $1129 at Clyde Armory. You may even be able to find them for cheaper than that.
what do people think about someone new jumping into the black rifle bandwagon and buying a 1500 rifle? i always thought of starting off slow, something simple and easy to use.
I can see where this line of thinking is coming from, consider that many here are deep into the AR platform, they are looking for overall value. In the long run, we see that initial purchase price difference to simply not be worth it.
Going off a couple quick prices on Gunbroker, and taking the opposite ends of Rob_S's chart linked to above, we get the following:
Colt 6920 - $1,300
DPMS AP4 - $850
That's a difference of $450 (giving a higher side price on the Colt and a lower found price on the DPMS), this may seem like a considerable pile of cash to someone new to the M4 platform.
For those that are involved deeply in this weapon platform, they are looking at the big picture of ownership. Considering the service life of the weapon, and the overall cost of ownership, that $450 ends up being small beans.
Add the cost of magazines, cases of ammunition, spare parts, red dot sights, white light, slings, stocks, grips, maybe railed handguards, the time and expense of training classes, cleaning supplies, weapon specific tools, maybe a spare weapon set up the same as the first.... suddenly that $450 is a small amount to spend for the increased value and quality of a better weapon.
So, what might look at first to be name brand snobbery, it really is mentoring of what many of us wish we had known from the start. Then realize that if someone doesn't like the weapon, the Colt might hold it's value better than the DPMS. Plus there are some brands like BCM that offer exceptional value and a fairly low price point considering the quality.
Picture it from the opposite side, someone that has spent great amounts of cash, time, and effort into becoming a serious student and end user of the M4. When the suggestions that you make get passed off as being 'just a brand name' when you actually know better, it's frustrating. All you are trying to do is help someone out long term, and they can't see past the price difference...
RogerinTPA
12-31-09, 16:42
Can we stop with the who is better than who?
1. BCM
2. LMT
3. Ok. COLT
4. Daniel Defense
5. Noveske
6. Larue
7. Sabre
in no particular order by the way:D
Larue? It's not on the "Chart". ;)
Captains1911
12-31-09, 17:06
Larue? It's not on the "Chart". ;)
Probably because they don't make complete rifles, just uppers (with the exception of the newly released OSR/OBR).
BCM wasn't on the chart either until just recently after they began manufacturing complete lowers.
RogerinTPA
12-31-09, 17:22
Probably because they don't make complete rifles, just uppers (with the exception of the newly released OSR/OBR).
BCM wasn't on the chart either until just recently after they began manufacturing complete lowers.
I am well "aware" of both of those facts. It was a slight of hand remark.
Captains1911
12-31-09, 19:00
I am well "aware" of both of those facts. It was a slight of hand remark.
I figured that, just though I would clarify for those whose don't know.
vietboy1st
01-01-10, 11:52
oh thanky ou very body. :D . I did some reseach on google but i found some lousy information and that's why i posted on here. Thanks
Happy New Year and enjoy your day off.
Be very careful equating price with quality. Look at why. With Colt, at contract price to the Government (again, be careful,) the cost of documenting the required quality checks and processes to certify that it was made to military standards are included. If that means magnetic particle inspection of every bolt, marking it, and documenting the number of bolts that were so inspected, plus ensuring only MPI documented bolts are used in the final product, then the price reflects it. None of the qualities required by the government come for free.
ON THE OTHER HAND, in civilian sales, you only get the verbal assurance that anything of the sort actually happened. The probability is much higher with Colt - with others who don't supply the government, no such system exists to certify the parts or inspect them. Commercial standards then apply, such as testing one or two in a batch of a few hundred parts.
FURTHER, if the manufacturer follows the Branding type of merchandising, they spend money on buffing up the pubic image of the product, and charge the expected failure rate to overhead. The MSRP and actual wholesale then already have a fraction of the cost of repairs included for the statistical number of weapons that will have defects.
So, on the one hand, all the parts were tested to prevent the weak ones getting shipped to the government - and wasting tax dollars. On the other, just enough parts were tested, and the good will of the customer is hedged against profits.
The interesting thing is that there are those who don't make to government standard and can put out a superior product. Hammerforged barrels, aftermarket furniture, non standard barrel profiles or calibers, optional free float four rail handguards, accessories like BUIS included (Troy is enjoying that a lot right now,) make it a difficult proposition to level the playing field.
Price means nothing when it comes to quality and can't be used except for the most basic comparisons. Different economic standards, the use of different manufacturing equipment, economies of scale, engineering expertise, and/or knowledge of proprietary methods can make two seemingly identical carbines differ by hundreds of dollars.
Don't look at price, look at features, construction, and adherence to the purpose of design. If those don't meet your criteria, there's no point looking further - it's a waste of money because it's not the right tool.
I am wondering who made the best AR15 rifle out there included parts out there ?:rolleyes:
This is a mostly academic discussion for you given that you live in Boston. You might at best be able to get a neutered "ban" version of some of these guns, with 10 round magazines.
Just FYI Zanders Sporting Goods in Baldwin IL has Colt 6920s for $999 right now. I haven't seen them that cheap in quite some time.
That is dealer price, but if you have a bro with an FFL, they can set you up. I'm tempted to grab a couple, but my household is already pretty stoked with ARs right now.
Current stock shows 16 units.
Saleen
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