View Full Version : J Frames okay with the lock?
I received a gift certificate for graduation from the academy for a local gun shop to buy a 442 (or 642) no-lock revolver. I went there yesterday to buy it and they told me that they were no longer in stock, that they were a limited run back in the spring, and they weren't sure when/if they'd get them in again.
I've read on several forums where people don't seem to trust the smith revolvers with the lock, but I was hoping for your opinion. I'm kind of leaning on getting an aimpoint with my gift certificate for the AR, and holding off until I have the money to find a no-lock version used, or from some other store. Thoughts?
thx-Chris
mike benedict
12-27-09, 12:23
not in my book
there are too many J-frames out there with out locks.
Mike
Do what you can to get a no-lock. If you can't, neuter the lock.
Contact a S&W LE distributor, or major vendor, that may have better ability to get a no-lock.
operator81
12-27-09, 14:23
Mine has a lock. I have about 500ish rounds through it so far and no issues. I don't care for the lock as far as looks go and I understand some have had issues in harder recoiling pistols, but so far so good w/mine. If you can find one w/o a lock go for it, if not I wouldn't let it sway you from purchasing a new one.
LockenLoad
12-27-09, 14:35
300 rounds plus through my .357 mag with lock no problems yet, something tells me you should get the aimpoint and wait on the S&W just so you will have exactly what you want
"Because there has been so much discussion on the topic on the internet forums, let’s discuss the internal key-lock safety on the new Smith & Wesson revolvers. I do not use them, and would be perfectly happy if the guns did not have them, but they are here to stay, and cause no problems. If you want to use it to secure your gun when it is out of your reach, it is there. If you think that a kid or stranger might touch your gun when you have to leave it at home for some reason, like when flying on commercial aircraft, use it. If you don’t want to use the lock, just ignore it. I always hear of some guy, who knew a guy, whose cousin’s friend had the lock to activate itself, but have never yet heard from anyone with first-hand experience with this. I have several of the S&W revolvers that have the key lock, and have never had a problem. My 342PD that I carry everyday has always fired without fail anytime that I have pulled the trigger. I trust my life daily to the little gun, and do not worry at all about the key lock. If it bothers you, take it out and throw it away, or grind off the cam, but it is crazy to let the key lock stop you from buying the best pocket revolver on the market."
by Jeff Quinn
Gunblast.com
http://www.gunblast.com/SW-340MP.htm
one mans opinion and I have no first hand knowledge of it happening
Hundreds and hundreds of rounds over the years. Threw away the key and never looked back. Actually in my pocket as we speak.
Your dealer is wrong, the no lock 442 and 642 are still made. Have them contact RSR, they are a gun distributor, and tell him to order you one. They have over 12hundred 642s in stock and about 650 442s as of just before Christmas.
Here's a link with SKU numbers to give him so he knows what to order....
http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-revolvers-1980-present/114896-rsr-has-642s-no-internal-lock.html
I'd get the no lock. As a matter of fact I have one of each. If anything for peace of mind.
Alpha Sierra
12-27-09, 16:05
Buy S&W revolver with lock
Remove sideplate
Cock hammer
Remove hammer
Remove lock arm (aka the flag)
Remove lock arm spring
Store lock arm and spring in bag
Reinstall hammer
Reinstall sideplate
Enjoy no-lock reliability
Combat_Diver
12-30-09, 23:54
Just ordered from Smith a M442 No Lock SKU:150544 yesterday. They even have a new Pro Model 442/642 for moon clips and no lock on the website.
CD
M642 no lock SKU: 103810
M642 Pro Series no lock, cut for moon clips SKU: 178042
M442 Pro Series no lock, cut for moon clips SKU: 178041
"Because there has been so much discussion on the topic on the internet forums, let’s discuss the internal key-lock safety on the new Smith & Wesson revolvers. I do not use them, and would be perfectly happy if the guns did not have them, but they are here to stay, and cause no problems. If you want to use it to secure your gun when it is out of your reach, it is there. If you think that a kid or stranger might touch your gun when you have to leave it at home for some reason, like when flying on commercial aircraft, use it. If you don’t want to use the lock, just ignore it. I always hear of some guy, who knew a guy, whose cousin’s friend had the lock to activate itself, but have never yet heard from anyone with first-hand experience with this. I have several of the S&W revolvers that have the key lock, and have never had a problem. My 342PD that I carry everyday has always fired without fail anytime that I have pulled the trigger. I trust my life daily to the little gun, and do not worry at all about the key lock. If it bothers you, take it out and throw it away, or grind off the cam, but it is crazy to let the key lock stop you from buying the best pocket revolver on the market."
by Jeff Quinn Gunblast.com
http://www.gunblast.com/SW-340MP.htm
There are a number of first hand accounts of lock seizure around, experienced and observed, by credible folks. Not sure why Jeff has missed them.
If the gun is life support equipment, get one without a lock or neuter it.
LockenLoad
12-31-09, 10:31
There are a number of first hand accounts of lock seizure around, experienced and observed, by credible folks. Not sure why Jeff has missed them.
If the gun is life support equipment, get one without a lock or neuter it.
I have seen even the sainted glock malfunction, but never a j-frame S&W with a lock have a problem, many people shoot them at my range, I am sure you are correct that there has been problems, but I am like Jeff never seen it myself, never seen one after the fact, our meet the owner of one it happened to.
my brother and i punished ouselves with a 13 oz scandium frame .357 trying to get it to sieze up, but failed. punished is an appropriate word imo
LockenLoad
12-31-09, 11:12
my brother and i punished ouselves with a 13 oz scandium frame .357 trying to get it to sieze up, but failed. punished is an appropriate word imo
very appropriate word, try some pachmayr decelerator grips makes the J-frame a little bigger but takes away some of the punishment when shooting hot loads
desertdisciple
09-05-10, 21:09
As already mentioned, here, I'd get one w/o if available.
However, I wouldn't pay extra for it.
if not available, the lock wouldn't be a deal breaker.
My 340PD Has one, but key is put away & will NEVER BE USED.
*That being said, I am glad to know the lock removal option, shown several posts ago*
Heavy Metal
09-05-10, 21:22
Check out G&R Tactical's web site. Grant is selling a J-Frame sans internal lock.
(Me knows what me wants for Christmas now!)
I chuckled when I read the first post because I remember going into withdrawl when I found out that S&W had planned on the locks. My first thought was "just great, something else to mess up". I didn't buy a S&W for a number of years until a couple of years ago. I purchased an M&P340 with the internal hammer (Centennial style). After the 7th shot (five of +P 38 and two 38 RNL) the hammer failed to drop on the next 3 rounds. Off to S&W it went and was returned several weeks later with a note saying the extractor and hand had been replaced. The revolver has 225 rounds of 38 RNL and +P mixture with no further problems, not even with the lock. Granted, that is not much in the round department but this is a lightweight frame and stainless cylinder which I have fun with but it sure isn't like shooting my L frames.
I have had 2 recoil induced lockings with J-Frames. I'll never buy another one with a lock. There are simply to many lock free guns on the market. I prefer the older models anyway. The ones before the frames were beefed up for .357 Mag.
My current J-Frames collection consist of a 442 no lock, and an Chiefs Special from the '70s. I have never been a gun collector but hunting up the older J's is fun. It's neat to have and handle a gun with history. I recommend owning a steel frame gun for training. The light weights are NO FUN.
Punished is right! Mine make me bleed. The cylinder release cuts my thumb. I shot a qualification about five years ago with the gun and was called away to investigate an accident. I did not realize my hand was shaking until I went to fill in the report. Not good for carpal tunnel.
my brother and i punished ouselves with a 13 oz scandium frame .357 trying to get it to sieze up, but failed. punished is an appropriate word imo
I have two. One is fine, the other locked up on the second cylinder. It's gone. I will not buy another revolver with the lock. I spoke with a Smith rep at SHOT08 and was told that they are aware that failures occur.
My prediction is that Smith and Wesson is headed for a world of pain.
My lock has never give me a problem. I don't carry the 340PD much any more. I made a note to remove the lock. I did not know it was so easy. The lock has always made me nervous. I always carried the key with me just in case. The only issues I've had with the scandium gun is forgetting the inscription on the side of the bbl. I think it read shoot no less than 125 grain. Well twice I've forgotten and shot lighter bullets. The rounds dislodge themselves during recoil and LOCK UP YOUR GUN. embarassing on the rande deadly in the real world. It takes. Tools, ie a pen to get things up and running again. Or the ole Monadnock "De-Jammer" to get back in the game.
I have two j-frames with locks with around 2500 rounds through my 642 and maybe 1000 rounds through my 638. No issues whatsoever and these guns are carried daily. In fact the j-frame (most with locks) is the most popular BUG around mine and other local agencies and I have never heard of an issue outside of online gun forums.
desertdisciple
09-09-10, 11:40
I have two j-frames with locks with around 2500 rounds through my 642 and maybe 1000 rounds through my 638. No issues whatsoever and these guns are carried daily. In fact the j-frame (most with locks) is the most popular BUG around mine and other local agencies and I have never heard of an issue outside of online gun forums.
Yea, mlk, seems the more people I talk to, local shooters or smiths, have little to no issue w/ them. Most all say put the key away & never use it...but haven't found anyone, here, who has had problems.
Thinking I'll just never use the key & leave the one I've got...as it is...& just buy a little more practice ammo.
I don't have a round count on mine but have not had an issue with the lock. It sounds easy enough to fix and remove the lock and just prevent any.possible issue. It is on my list of things to do.
desertdisciple
09-09-10, 13:11
I don't have a round count on mine but have not had an issue with the lock. It sounds easy enough to fix and remove the lock and just prevent any.possible issue. It is on my list of things to do.
Yea, I read that earlier post...
However, unless I'm missing something, that will leave a hole in the side (where lock mechanism was). If so, it seems the potential of getting trash inside & causing issues is far more likely.
*I don't doubt that lock problems have occurred (Just like people have been killed by falling meteors)...just not sure of the likelihood of a lock malfunction or how rampant the "problem" may be. I just don't have data...& am getting just old enought that "THEY say..." doesn't get as quick a knee jerk reaction.
Then again...what do I know...
just my .02... Though w/ this economy & current administration, I probably OWE you for reading my ramblings...:haha:
However, unless I'm missing something, that will leave a hole in the side (where lock mechanism was). If so, it seems the potential of getting trash inside & causing issues is far more likely.
You can get a plug for the keyhole. Do a quick search and you'll find a couple sources for them.
desertdisciple
09-09-10, 13:24
You can get a plug for the keyhole. Do a quick search and you'll find a couple sources for them.
Thanks, for the info, RWK...
Still, w/o data, I doubt I'll make any change to the one I have.
John_Wayne777
09-09-10, 13:50
*I don't doubt that lock problems have occurred (Just like people have been killed by falling meteors)...just not sure of the likelihood of a lock malfunction or how rampant the "problem" may be.
I've personally encountered a partial lock engagement on my S&W 317...a .22 LR J frame.
Will it happen on every shot with every revolver? No.
...but it does happen, and it has happened with sufficient frequency that I de-lock any revolver I own for serious social purposes. Yes, there's a hole in the side after you do that...but it's not going to introduce any more vulnerability to crud than the big hole that the hammer moves in, and generally the little hole will be covered up by a decent holster.
You can always, you know, check the revolver regularly to make sure the action isn't crudded up on you. You cannot, however, check the lawyer lock to ensure it's not going to engage on you the next time you pull the trigger. Therefore de-locking is the less risky move by far, especially on a carry gun.
My wife and I have four j-frames, all with the lock. They are a pair of 642-2, a 317, and a 649. The 642s are my backup guns, the 317 is a training gun, and the 649 is a backup for my wife. They are low rd count guns right now, with no more than 1500 rds among the four of them. We don't use the locks. Have never had an instance of the locks self-deploying, or causing any kind of problem.
In a perfect world, I'd rather theguns didn't have locks, but I view them as a minor flaw. If/when I have an instance of a lock tying up the gun, I'm sure my opinion will change quickly.
I received a gift certificate for graduation from the academy for a local gun shop to buy a 442 (or 642) no-lock revolver. I went there yesterday to buy it and they told me that they were no longer in stock, that they were a limited run back in the spring, and they weren't sure when/if they'd get them in again.
I've read on several forums where people don't seem to trust the smith revolvers with the lock, but I was hoping for your opinion. I'm kind of leaning on getting an aimpoint with my gift certificate for the AR, and holding off until I have the money to find a no-lock version used, or from some other store. Thoughts?
thx-Chris
Your dealer is incorrect. We stock and have in stock 442's and 642's without the internal lock.
In fact S&W is moving more and more revolvers into the "no internal lock catagory." Their new PRO SERIES do not have the locks (got those in stock as well). ;)
C4
Based on what I've read and heard throughout the years it seems the lightweight (aluminum/scandium) framed revolvers firing magnum loads tend to be the ones that have had the problems. Not that it hasn't or would never occur with the heavier stainless models. And these are very very rare occurences. And not as prevalent as some claim.
I see it this way. The chances of something going wrong with the lock within those 5 or so rounds (and possibly a re-load) when I'm using it to defend myself seems incredibly remote. About as remote as a squib or overcharged round. Not to mention all other things that could go wrong. If it ever happens it'll happen during the thousands of rounds I'll be shooting when I'm at the range. Granted, I do only shoot and load standard .38's and .38 +P's in my steel frame Mod. 60 and 640, but not out of fear of a lock problem. For me, not a deal breaker. But no doubt we'll all celebrate once S&W gets rid of this unfortunate "feature" for good.
Takes about 10 minutes to remove one.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RVPYgohVCNM
But there is no use or benefit to the lock, making it a negative proposition even if the probability of it causing a failure is low.
I don't disagree with that. I'm just giving my perspective. I think we should all pressure S&W into dropping these locks whether through not buying them or just bad mouthing them in general. But still, I don't have a problem using mine for protection. I guess I like to live dangerously.
crowkiller
09-09-10, 18:05
In fact S&W is moving more and more revolvers into the "no internal lock catagory." Their new PRO SERIES do not have the locks (got those in stock as well). ;)
C4
This is excellent news!:dance3:
Alpha Sierra
09-09-10, 18:20
Yea, I read that earlier post...
However, unless I'm missing something, that will leave a hole in the side (where lock mechanism was). If so, it seems the potential of getting trash inside & causing issues is far more likely.
You are indeed missing something.
The lock is three main parts. The tumbler, the lock arm (aka the flag) and the lock arm spring. Removal of the lock arm and the lock arm spring effectively removes the lock from the pistol without the need to remove the tumbler as well. That way you do not end up with a huge round hole on the side of the gun.
Well that is good news. The reason a lot of companies started making guns with built in locks was to meet requirements in states such as Mass. I don't blame them it is prob cheaper to manufacture your own than buy and repackag.another companies lock with your gun.
I know remington did something with locks in their trigger guard/saftey area and Glock had someone thing in the back strap area of their guns too.
desertdisciple
09-09-10, 19:01
This perspective is worth the read...
AND...I LOVE his closing line!
http://michaelbane.blogspot.com/2007/08/s-revolver-safety-failure.html
SeriousStudent
09-09-10, 20:24
I have an old Model 60 in .357 with no lock, and a 642 that had a lock. I removed the lock, and dropped in one of the little round stainless steel plugs to fill the gap.
The pistol cycles just fine. It took about 20 minutes to do, taking our time. It is a lot easier to do with two people. The WECSOG factor is pretty low, really.
If I ever have to send it back to S&W, I'll put the stupid lock back in it.
I would definitely buy a J-frame without the lock. But as been proven here many times, it's your money, your firearm, and your life. To me, the $20 was cheap insurance for my cheap life insurance. ;)
I shot mine for years with the lock. It was not till recently that I had the lock removed. I have heard of them locking up on their own. I heard enough of those stories to A. either get the lock removed (very easy) and B. to buy right the first time and get one without a lock.
I have been wanting to get a Bodyguard and was wondering...
Could you disable the lock with a strategically placed tiny drop of epoxy into the keyhole?
If you're buying a new one get it with out the lock. G&R Tactical has the 442 for sale for $399 with out the light.
Jungle Work
09-09-10, 23:27
About six months ago I had one of the S&W Rep tell me that S&W had never had a report of the lock malfunctioning.
I looked at him, said, "Sir, I don't talk with liars" and I walked away.
If locks are so good, why did S&W exempt LE and Military from getting them on any weapon they buy that they don't want it on.....
I have lots of S&W Revolvers, but only two have locks and they were given to me.
Don't carry them for any social purposes.
Jungle Work
I have had locks break 3 times all jamming up the gun. It was on a Mountain Gun in 44Mag, but no locks for me ever again!
ROCKET20_GINSU
09-10-10, 01:35
I just used the youtube video and removed my lock on my j frame. Really easy! So if you really want a pocket pistol I'd say go get it. I have a couple hundred trouble free rounds rounds through mine w/ the lock on prior to removing it this evening. While it worked fine before a little extra insurance never hurt anyone right... :dirol:
GU
I prefer the no lock guns, and they can be found with a little hunting.
I know of two cases where snubs have locked due to being dropped on the floor. In a close range fight this level of impact could easily occur. Just an observation.
If you want to get rid of an existing lock, then this might be a good idea;
http://smith-wessonforum.com/accessories-misc-sale-trade/143299-fs-plug.html
Just about every time I am at a large agency I see J-frames w/locks that have failed sitting on the armorers benches. I personally have witnessed inadvertent lock activation occur on the range, both during informal practice and during quals. Why would anyone willingly choose to use a piece of lifesaving equipment with a known failure point?!?!? It is utterly inexplicable and asinine...
NEVER select a weapon intended for real world use that has a lock. Period.
I agree with Doc! Well said. Things break enough on their own we do not need to add to the problems win extra shit.
LandCruiser
09-10-10, 19:14
I would not buy one with a lock. I would/did scour the internet to find one w/o a lock. As previously said, there are too many things that can go wrong to begin with and we don't need to add to that list.
titsonritz
09-10-10, 19:25
I will never own any firearm with an internal lock, period. I have seen them fail and find the entire concept fundamentally flawed. No thanks.
I haven't had any problems with the locks on J or N frames - though my go-to 627 doesn't have one. The lock hasn't anything to do with the "go-to" part, I just like that one the best (2 5/8" N frame 8 shot).
If you want to remove the lock, a guy on smith-wessonforum.com , by the name of Bullseye Smith sells kits to remove and plug so it looks somewhat neat. (I have no relation or involvement, just passing it along)
brushy bill
09-11-10, 21:42
Just about every time I am at a large agency I see J-frames w/locks that have failed sitting on the armorers benches. I personally have witnessed inadvertent lock activation occur on the range, both during informal practice and during quals. Why would anyone willingly choose to use a piece of lifesaving equipment with a known failure point?!?!? It is utterly inexplicable and asinine...
NEVER select a weapon intended for real world use that has a lock. Period.
I think this sums it up...I loved S&W revolvers, but won't purchase them until the lock goes. Bought a 442 no lock to support sales, but won't get a lock gun.
Doc Safari
11-12-14, 11:46
I purchased a 642 with internal lock from my girlfriend for a very low price because she doesn't have the hand strength to shoot that heavy double action trigger and wanted to make room in her safe for something with an external hammer.
If not for the screamin' deal she gave me, I would have opted not to own a Smith with an internal lock.
Reading many internet posts it seems that lock failures are like any other failures: you may have one and you may not.
I've seen the YouTube video showing the tutorial to remove the lock, and I also understand there may be one or more ways to plug the hole if the lock is removed. Evidently you can also remove just the locking mechanism, leaving the key cylinder in the frame as a useless nub that covers the hole in the frame.
What a lot of people don't address, however, is how disabling the internal lock might become a liability to you in a defense situation. Suppose you remove the lock mechanism and plug the hole. Then you become involved in a shooting with some ambiguities, and some smart-ass lawyer decides to make it a case for your recklessness because you removed a safety device from your firearm.
It seems like the only two choices are: buy a gun without the lock, or learn to live with the lock.
My bargain 642 with the lock allows me to "retire" a proven reliable no-lock 642 into my prepper stash, so I'm going to experiment with option 2 above: learn to live with the lock.
Prior to purchasing it, I fired a dozen or so rounds through my girlfriend's 642 without the lock spontaneously engaging.
Okay, good to go for now.
My plan to "babysit" this pistol involves the following regimen:
1. After every range session, verify the lock has not rotated out of the unlocked position.
2. Refrain from shooting +P rounds at range sessions, even though the pistol is rated for it.
3. At least consider refraining from +P ammo as a carry round.
4. After every dry fire session, verify the lock has not rotated out of the unlocked position.
5. If the lock ever spontaneously engages for any reason, sell the gun.
I have owned both an n frame 45 and j frame 357 with the lock ( both limited supply type guns for which an older used equivalent was not available) but for the most part my revolvers are bought old and used. The general build quality of the older s&w's is better and at least in my area there are piles of used smiths around much cheaper than new ones. I see no reason ( other than limited edition unique guns not found as older models) to buy a new as opposed to used revolver.
The lock is evil. I won't buy a new S&W revolver with a lock. The fit and finish on their older guns seemed better too. I had a 60-70's vintage Model 27 with a 6" barrel (6 shot) that was flawless in every aspect. It locked up and fired like clockwork. The bluing still looked new after years of firing and handling. It was damn near a sniper rifle too. I could pop beer caps all day at 15 yards in SA mode. I still regret giving that gun away.
I don't trust the lock. I'll probably take the lock out of my PC 327. Is it easy enough for a revolver noob to do? I don't want to mess up an expensive weapon trying this.
Alpha Sierra
11-17-14, 06:26
What a lot of people don't address, however, is how disabling the internal lock might become a liability to you in a defense situation. Suppose you remove the lock mechanism and plug the hole. Then you become involved in a shooting with some ambiguities, and some smart-ass lawyer decides to make it a case for your recklessness because you removed a safety device from your firearm.
This is nonsense.
First of all, it's a STORAGE lock, as in: it's not supposed to be locked when the pistol is being carried for defense
Second of all, that internet myth has been around forever and no one can ever provide evidence that it might have even the slightest bit of truth to it.
Doc Safari
11-17-14, 09:18
This is nonsense.
First of all, it's a STORAGE lock, as in: it's not supposed to be locked when the pistol is being carried for defense
Second of all, that internet myth has been around forever and no one can ever provide evidence that it might have even the slightest bit of truth to it.
Massad Ayoub would disagree with you.
http://backwoodshome.com/blogs/MassadAyoob/2009/09/03/internal-gun-locks/
I did not remove the internal lock, for the simple reason that I’ve seen a prosecutor raise hell about a deactivated safety device when trying to establish the element of recklessness that is a key ingredient in a manslaughter conviction. “Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, the defendant was so reckless that he DEACTIVATED A SAFETY DEVICE ON A LETHAL WEAPON, and so arrogant that he thought he knew more about the gun than the factory that made it!” That’s a mountain I’d rather not have to climb in court, nor debate in front of twelve jurors selected in part by opposing counsel for their lack of knowledge of firearms.
Massad Ayoob would disagree with you.
http://backwoodshome.com/blogs/Massa...nal-gun-locks/
I did not remove the internal lock, for the simple reason that I’ve seen a prosecutor raise hell about a deactivated safety device when trying to establish the element of recklessness that is a key ingredient in a manslaughter conviction. “Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, the defendant was so reckless that he DEACTIVATED A SAFETY DEVICE ON A LETHAL WEAPON, and so arrogant that he thought he knew more about the gun than the factory that made it!” That’s a mountain I’d rather not have to climb in court, nor debate in front of twelve jurors selected in part by opposing counsel for their lack of knowledge of firearms.
Having taken numerous Mas Ayoob classes, I wholeheartedly agree. There may be less than a 1% chance of this accusation ever happening, but the risk vs reward is not worth it. If you want one without the lock, buy one without the lock.
Alpha Sierra
11-17-14, 12:39
Massad Ayoub would disagree with you.
http://backwoodshome.com/blogs/MassadAyoob/2009/09/03/internal-gun-locks/
And I disagree with him. It's hearsay and speculation without a case cite.
I deactivated the STORAGE lock on my J frame a long time ago and lose zero sleep over it.
Doc Safari
11-17-14, 12:48
And I disagree with him. It's hearsay and speculation without a case cite.
I think his reputation in the gun industry and self-defense qualify him as an SME, and he should probably be listened to. I think he probably has contacts in law enforcement and the legal field that have given him advice in many, many areas concerning firearms, and that's why his opinion is valid.
I deactivated the STORAGE lock on my J frame a long time ago and lose zero sleep over it.
More power to ya. If I decide I just can't stand a handgun with the lock, I think I'd trade off that gun for one without the lock before removing the lock and potentially opening a can of worms.
Alpha Sierra
11-17-14, 12:55
I think his reputation in the gun industry and self-defense qualify him as an SME
Maybe so. But it does not make him infallible.
Have your gunsmith install an apex trigger kit. While he's at it, have him disable the lock.
https://apextactical.com/store/product-info.php?pid49.html
Also, put a crimson trace laser grip on it & you will be set.
Doc Safari
11-19-14, 10:22
The thought occurred to me that there might be a "work around" as far as the possible liability of removing the lock.
The fitting where you stick the key is held in by a spring and is its own sub-assembly. If you remove just the lock plate and the torsion spring attached to it as per the YouTube video, the outside of the gun looks just the same as if the lock were still there except for the tiny hole for the locking plate's pivot pin. As long as you don't mind still having that "ugly" fitting for the key on the outside of the frame, no one would know at a glance that the lock plate has been removed.
If you were involved in a shooting, as long as you keep your mouth shut and don't admit to removing the lock, I tend to doubt that anyone is going to detail-strip your pistol. Even better, if you acquired the gun second-hand, who's to know that you are the one that removed the lock?
Remember, from the outside the gun looks the same because the fitting for the key is still there. If called on it you could always shrug your shoulders and say, "I never used the lock. I guess the former owner removed it."
Thoughts?
...........If you were involved in a shooting, as long as you keep your mouth shut........
This is the most important part of building a defense for yourself should you be involved in a deadly force incident.
E-mails and internet activity are discoverable in civil litigation and I suspect the same would apply to criminal prosecution.
kantstudien
11-19-14, 13:46
Wait to get a no-lock. They aren't hard to find in 442/642. It's a no brainer
Doc Safari
11-19-14, 13:57
Wait to get a no-lock. They aren't hard to find in 442/642. It's a no brainer
I think everyone agrees on that point.
Still, there are people who have or have recently acquired one with the lock not knowing any better.
As I said, in my case I got a screamin' deal on the gun, so with plenty of money left over to spend on ammo I decided to chance getting it even though it has the lock.
Talking Monkey
11-19-14, 14:48
I have a 342-1 that I bought years ago (originally for my wife). Apparently we got it right when the locks started being installed on that model. I had my local shop order one and when it came in, I was surprised to see this odd circular thing above the cylinder release - I had no idea what it was, but once I found out I figured, "oh well, an extra feature". Years later I come to find out that people have had issues with them and was kinda irritated that I had the misfortune to order ours just a little too late. At any rate, we've put 307 rounds through it so far without issue. This model is probably the worst case for potential issues due to its very light weight, but I absolutely love it. Yes, I would prefer the pre-lock version, but like I said, no problems so far.
I've come to realize that the 342 with a Remora holster is the perfect summer carry setup - very light, corrosion resistant materials, option to pocket carry, only have to conceal a very small grip if carrying IWB.
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