View Full Version : Judge dismisses all charges in Blackwater shooting
Judge dismisses all charges in Blackwater shooting (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/12/31/AR2009123101936.html?hpid=topnews)
By Del Quentin Wilber
Washington Post Staff Writer
Thursday, December 31, 2009; 4:15 PM
A federal judge on Thursday threw out charges against five Blackwater Worldwide security guards accused of killing 14 people in a 2007 shooting in downtown Baghdad.
In a 90-page opinion, U.S. District Judge Ricardo M. Urbina ruled that the government violated the guards' rights by using their immunized statements to help the investigation. The ruling comes after a lengthy set of hearings that examined whether federal prosecutors and agents improperly used such statements that the guards gave to State Department investigators following the shooting on Sept. 16, 2007.
"The explanations offered by prosecutors and investigators in an attempt to justify their actions and persuade the court that they did not use the defendants' compelled testimony were all too often contradictory, unbelievable and lacking in credibility," Urbina wrote.
Dean Boyd, a spokesman for the Justice Department, said, "We're obviously disappointed by the decision. We're still in the process of reviewing the opinion and considering our options."
The five guards -- Paul Slough, Nicholas Slatten, Evan Liberty, Dustin Heard and Donald Ball -- are charged with voluntary manslaughter and weapons violations in the killing of 14 civilians and the wounding of 20 others.
The Justice Department alleges that the guards unleashed an unprovoked attack on Iraqi civilians in Nisoor Square while in a convoy. One guard, Jeremy P. Ridgeway, has pleaded guilty and was expected to testify against the others. Blackwater, which has since renamed itself Xe, had a contract to provide security for the State Department in Iraq.
Mark Hulkhower, the defense lawyer representing Slough, said he was obviously pleased. "We are very gratified by the judge's thoughtful and reasoned opinion and we are very happy that Mr. Slough can start the New Year without this cloud hanging over his head."
Wonderful!
Just read this and am very pleased!!!!
Buckaroo
Did they not mow down a bunch of civilians or are they just getting out on a technicality? Or both?
I am very pleased to hear this. My heart goes out to those men that had to go through this ordeal.
John_Wayne777
12-31-09, 16:58
Did they not mow down a bunch of civilians or are they just getting out on a technicality? Or both?
The true details of what happened at Nisoor square are notably absent from anything I've ever read on the incident. There are undoubtedly some members here who know the real story...and they are in absolutely no hurry to share the details...nor should they be.
I certainly don't have the details and as such I'm not qualified to comment on what this means beyond this:
Remember that a bunch of Marines were falsely accused of a number of heinous crimes in the Haditha incident. They were eventually exonerated. Currently some SEALs are in the process of being tried because a terrorist ended up with a fat lip. The fact that the government accuses armed professionals of heinous actions does not necessarily mean that the accused are actually guilty of anything...especially when so much political baggage is hanging on the issue.
The true details of what happened at Nisoor square are notably absent from anything I've ever read on the incident. There are undoubtedly some members here who know the real story...and they are in absolutely no hurry to share the details...nor should they be.
I certainly don't have the details and as such I'm not qualified to comment on what this means beyond this:
Remember that a bunch of Marines were falsely accused of a number of heinous crimes in the Haditha incident. They were eventually exonerated. Currently some SEALs are in the process of being tried because a terrorist ended up with a fat lip. The fact that the government accuses armed professionals of heinous actions does not necessarily mean that the accused are actually guilty of anything...especially when so much political baggage is hanging on the issue.
Mr. Wayne: Well said and thank you. I for one, lack your eloquence.
LockenLoad
12-31-09, 17:06
good news
The true details of what happened at Nisoor square are notably absent from anything I've ever read on the incident. There are undoubtedly some members here who know the real story...and they are in absolutely no hurry to share the details...nor should they be.
I certainly don't have the details and as such I'm not qualified to comment on what this means beyond this:
Remember that a bunch of Marines were falsely accused of a number of heinous crimes in the Haditha incident. They were eventually exonerated. Currently some SEALs are in the process of being tried because a terrorist ended up with a fat lip. The fact that the government accuses armed professionals of heinous actions does not necessarily mean that the accused are actually guilty of anything...especially when so much political baggage is hanging on the issue.
Political baggage? You're saying the government would consider political expediency when weighing the fate of braver souls than themselves? Heresy! :rolleyes:
Belmont31R
12-31-09, 17:19
VERY glad to here on this New Years...
This is very good news! Congratulations to those men and I hope they're able to enjoy the New Year celebrations.
What about Jeremy P. Ridgeway? Will they still try and get him to testify against the other or is that completely off the table now?
Robb Jensen
12-31-09, 17:41
Great news!
The Dumb Gun Collector
12-31-09, 17:53
FREAKING SWEET! As a member of the defense bar I will accept all the credit!:D
SeriousStudent
12-31-09, 17:58
A fine way for those men and their families to bring in the new year.
Now if only all their legal bills will magically go away as well.......
VooDoo6Actual
12-31-09, 18:07
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e225/teehee321/BlackWaterAOB.jpg
OUTSTANDING !
Great news, just when I thought there was no justice in this world. I hope this makes it to the main stream media and Erik Prince and his company (Blackwater) gets exonerated. Still praying for our SEAL's and their rescue from the Political Correctness Cops. Hard to believe our country has become "what's right is wrong and what's wrong is right". Maybe Billy Shakespeare's dream will come true in my lifetime.
What about Jeremy P. Ridgeway? Will they still try and get him to testify against the other or is that completely off the table now?
I was just thinking, Ridgeway must feel like an idiot upon hearing this news.
About effen time!! This should have been a non starter.....the same with the SEAL team that is being court martialed.......that made nat'l news so I think it will get shit canned as well.
the only problem is that you have in essence erased an effective team. Their morale is damgaged and it's good adds that they will all leave the military....once something like gets into your file you're fuked.
This was great news to read this afternoon. A buddy of mine whom I served with in Iraq during our time in the Corps. was one of those thrown under the bus in this case. I spoke with him earlier and it was great to hear how the weight has been lifted off his shoulders and he can resume is normal life. These guys have been provided a well deserved, fresh beginning to 2010.
About effen time!! This should have been a non starter.....the same with the SEAL team that is being court martialed.......that made nat'l news so I think it will get shit canned as well.
the only problem is that you have in essence erased an effective team. Their morale is damgaged and it's good adds that they will all leave the military....once something like gets into your file you're fuked.
It is 3 Frogs, not a Team. Also, I know one of them as well. He spent most of his young life working to become a SEAL and when I was stationed with he was a GM2 on his way to BUD/s. I am pretty sure he's a lifer.
outstanding, looks like we might just get a good start to the new year.:D
The true details of what happened at Nisoor square are notably absent from anything I've ever read on the incident. There are undoubtedly some members here who know the real story...and they are in absolutely no hurry to share the details...nor should they be.
I certainly don't have the details and as such I'm not qualified to comment on what this means beyond this:
Remember that a bunch of Marines were falsely accused of a number of heinous crimes in the Haditha incident. They were eventually exonerated. Currently some SEALs are in the process of being tried because a terrorist ended up with a fat lip. The fact that the government accuses armed professionals of heinous actions does not necessarily mean that the accused are actually guilty of anything...especially when so much political baggage is hanging on the issue.
Well said and I agree for the majority. I feel that these certain people knew exactly what happened they should come forth and tell the true story. Either they didn't do anything wrong and should stop being harassed over it, or they did something terrible and should receive the strong arm of the law for it. Let's just hope they're keeping their mouths shut because the guys didn't do anything bad. But typically you keep your mouth shut for the opposite reason and I think everyone can see that.
Do you have a link to read a synopsis of the event? News places are just slanting it so you don't even know if they were being shot at.
rrpederson
12-31-09, 21:54
donald ball was in the same company as me in the marine corps. he was in weapons plt, while i was in 3rd plt. he never seemed like an evil guy. when i first heard about this, i didnt believe it. i didnt know him that well, but when my buddy told me about this i didnt really buy it. i had a feeling something was up. im glad hes not going to prison or anything.
donald ball was in the same company as me in the marine corps. he was in weapons plt, while i was in 3rd plt. he never seemed like an evil guy. when i first heard about this, i didnt believe it. i didnt know him that well, but when my buddy told me about this i didnt really buy it. i had a feeling something was up. im glad hes not going to prison or anything.
Same here Dude... same here.
John_Wayne777
12-31-09, 22:47
Let's just hope they're keeping their mouths shut because the guys didn't do anything bad. But typically you keep your mouth shut for the opposite reason and I think everyone can see that.
I was referring mainly to folks who frequent forums who probably have heard all sorts of rumors about what happened...not the defendants themselves. Frankly in their shoes I wouldn't say a damn thing because anything you say can and will be used to crucify you. The story has built in legs because people like to believe that the guys working these contracts are bloodthirsty mercenaries who get their rocks off by killing people. Here we know better than that.
I heard an interview with that assclown Scahill that made me want to tear the ears off his head where he spoke as if he knew what happened at Nisoor and blamed it on Eric Prince because of a culture he created that referred to Iraqis as a "racist term" (Hadji) and where people "bragged" about their "kills" (After, of course, accusing Prince of murder to keep certain people from testifying)....and he's the "Blackwater expert" the media turns to frequently. So you aren't going to get a fair shake out of them.
From the little bit I know of this situation I would say this is cause for celebration.
If anyone knows these guys buy them a round for me.
I don't know much about the underlying facts, but they got off on what most people would call a technicality. The charges weren't dismissed because the court found that they did nothing wrong. This decision was a slap against the government improperly using immunized statements, not a vindication of the contractors' actions.
Again, I have no idea whether they did or did not commit any wrongs here - but the court didn't decide that.
I just finished reading the article in the LA Times, I hope the feds take their time reading the opinion of the judge and let it stay with this as the final decision.
Good luck to Blackwater.
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/la-na-blackwater1-2010jan01,0,1469598.story
Submariner
01-01-10, 11:33
If the US Attorney wants to continue the prosecution, he's going to have to find new and different charges. US Attorneys are good at this.
Judge Ricardo Urbina today dismissed all charges against the five Blackwater defendants with prejudice. Here (http://letterofapology.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/blackwateropinion.pdf) is the opinion. The dismissal was based on the Government’s multiple violations of Kastigar v. United States through its improper use of compelled statements and admissions (under Garrity v. New Jersey) made by the defendants to State Department investigators.
ADDED: Someone doesn't want this publicly aired. US Attorneys aren't this dumb.
John_Wayne777
01-01-10, 13:01
I don't know much about the underlying facts, but they got off on what most people would call a technicality. The charges weren't dismissed because the court found that they did nothing wrong. This decision was a slap against the government improperly using immunized statements, not a vindication of the contractors' actions.
Again, I have no idea whether they did or did not commit any wrongs here - but the court didn't decide that.
Yup.
...and I doubt the feds will let it go at that.
Nathan_Bell
01-01-10, 13:43
I don't know much about the underlying facts, but they got off on what most people would call a technicality. The charges weren't dismissed because the court found that they did nothing wrong. This decision was a slap against the government improperly using immunized statements, not a vindication of the contractors' actions.
Again, I have no idea whether they did or did not commit any wrongs here - but the court didn't decide that.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/01/us/01blackwater.html?pagewanted=2 :
"The judge also criticized prosecutors for withholding “substantial exculpatory evidence” from the grand jury that indicted the defendants, as well as for presenting “distorted versions” of witnesses’ testimony and improperly telling the grand jury that some incriminating statements had been made by the defendants but were being withheld. "
Withholding information from the Grand Jury isn't what most would consider a technicality. Would they have no billed it had the GJ gotten the information that the AUSA withheld?
Well, I for one do not want to see this end right here. This is essentially stating that private contractors are allowed to get away with murder. One of them pled guilty, investigations say the killings were unprovoked, and these guys aren't in prison?
Unless people come forth and tell the truth about what happened, everything still points to them being responsible for the deaths of those civilians.
SeriousStudent
01-01-10, 14:42
Well, I for one do not want to see this end right here. This is essentially stating that private contractors are allowed to get away with murder. One of them pled guilty, investigations say the killings were unprovoked, and these guys aren't in prison?
Unless people come forth and tell the truth about what happened, everything still points to them being responsible for the deaths of those civilians.
No.
This decision is stating that the government cannot require you to give a statement, then use that statement to prosecute you.
Do some Goggling with the word "Garrity" in it.
I would also encourage you to do some searches regarding "Marine Haditha", if you believe that every investigation the government does is accurate and complete.
This is essentially stating that private contractors are allowed to get away with murder.
No, it's stating that prosecutorial misconduct can kill a case before it even begins. Whether the .gov lets it end here or pushes forward remains to be seen. Given that the current Administration is so sensitive to international opinion, there will be motivation to reopen the case. After all, "American mercenaries free after American judge says American prosecutors make mistake" is going to sound like a whitewash beyond our borders.
One of them pled guilty
Sucks to be him at this point.
investigations say the killings were unprovoked, and these guys aren't in prison?
It's called the Fifth Amendment. This has absolutely nothing to do with guilt or innocence.
Unless people come forth and tell the truth about what happened, everything still points to them being responsible for the deaths of those civilians.
Maybe I'm misreading this. It sounds like you're saying "unless they prove they're innocent, they're guilty." Someone was out sick the day they taught civics in Civics Class.
Todd you were nicer about it than I would have been.
Volucris, we have agreed on other thread but I must say that I feel you are way off base here. it is easy to armchair QB from our safe warm homes. We were not there. We were not under fire.
Did civilians die? Possibly, maybe even probably. But we are talking about a hostile are where these men have to constantly be on their guard. These guys didn't just walk up and start opening fire on anything that moved.
John_Wayne777
01-01-10, 15:19
One of them pled guilty,
Yes, he did...to get reduced jailtime. He could have been the only guy there that day who did anything wrong.
...or he could have simply cracked at the prospect of the entire weight of the United States Federal Government coming down on him like the fist of an angry God. He may have thought that he was screwed no matter what and tried to cut a deal to keep himself from being crushed.
That's how plea deals work.
investigations say the killings were unprovoked, and these guys aren't in prison?
Do you have the details of that investigation handy? Somehow I doubt it. My point made earlier was that details on this incident are noticeably scarce
. There are some rumors and some inuendo, but no hard facts floating around out there that give anyone not familiar with the intimate details of the situation sufficient cause to pronounce the accused guilty.
Unless people come forth and tell the truth about what happened
How do you know they haven't? You're assuming that the government here is on the side of the angels. What if they aren't?
, everything still points to them being responsible for the deaths of those civilians.
Again, what "everything" do you have that none of the rest of us do? I've already stated pretty clearly that media reports are notoriously unreliable.
I am glad the judge stood up to the government and insured these men's rights were not trampled on.
Unfortunately they are not going to be able to walk away from this just yet. The Iraquis (http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/meast/01/01/iraq.blackwater.charges/index.html) are going to sue them and the current administration will probably not just drop the issue.
I'm not saying they did anything, I'm just pointing out that it doesn't exactly look like they're saints right now. Not out of the bush just yet. I don't want you to get the message that I think I have some sort of insider knowledge on this because I absolutely don't. I've just been reading the news stories on it and reading forums like this place where guys with some real experience in the sector can make things more clear.
And yes, I'm fully aware that good men have been falsely incriminated in the past for things alike this. I'd just like to see where this goes.
Unfortunately they are not going to be able to walk away from this just yet. The Iraquis (http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/meast/01/01/iraq.blackwater.charges/index.html) are going to sue them and the current administration will probably not just drop the issue.
I'm not a lawyer, so can someone explain under what jurisdiction, venue, and extradition treaty they are going to do this? So the Iraqi government sues me and says I have to show up in their civil court. I don't show, they find me guilty in absentia and have no means to extract any judgement. Or can this be done in a US court?
I'm not a lawyer, so can someone explain under what jurisdiction, venue, and extradition treaty they are going to do this? So the Iraqi government sues me and says I have to show up in their civil court. I don't show, they find me guilty in absentia and have no means to extract any judgement. Or can this be done in a US court?
An Iraqi court can do whatever their country's government says it can do.
If Iraqis plan to sue the BW guys, though, it will almost certainly have to happen in a U.S. federal court.
Damn bleeding heart liberals letting people off on technicalities.
John_Wayne777
01-01-10, 22:56
An Iraqi court can do whatever their country's government says it can do.
If Iraqis plan to sue the BW guys, though, it will almost certainly have to happen in a U.S. federal court.
...and I'm sure the judges and lawyers will all have lots of fun figuring out all the legal issues such a move would bring up.
Brother Rat
01-01-10, 23:04
Whatever else happens, I'm just glad for this step in the right direction and hope the guys got to spend a stress-free New Years with their families.
That may be tue. However, one need only look at the abusrdity of the charges to begin with. One of the charges was an old machine gun law that was designed to target drug traffickers.
I don't know much about the underlying facts, but they got off on what most people would call a technicality. The charges weren't dismissed because the court found that they did nothing wrong. This decision was a slap against the government improperly using immunized statements, not a vindication of the contractors' actions.
Again, I have no idea whether they did or did not commit any wrongs here - but the court didn't decide that.
RancidSumo
01-02-10, 16:53
I am glad that this turned out the way it did. In my opinion, it is war and shit happens. If I was there (which I obviously wasn't so I don't know all of the facts) and I saw something that posed a threat to myself or my friends, I would do whatever it took to bring myself home alive. If that isn't what happened then I guess they will get their punishment in the end anyway.
TEXAS_GLOCKER
01-02-10, 18:47
Right on.....God Bless them and thier family!! And thanks to all of them for thier service and sacrifice!!
Blackwater is an organization targeted by libs(that no doubt have aided the Iraqi's) that has provided an invaluable service to our country. I feel, in the end, the guy's will be exonerated.
It is 3 Frogs, not a Team. Also, I know one of them as well. He spent most of his young life working to become a SEAL and when I was stationed with he was a GM2 on his way to BUD/s. I am pretty sure he's a lifer.
I sure hope you're right. something this chicken shit shouldn't effect the lives of some good guy's that are laying out on the line. I have a buddy that's selling freakin new homes that was a PJ and some stupid shit happened in Afghanistan a few years ago that caused him to not reup after putting in 12yrs..........
I hope your friends and his buddies get their case dismissed as well.
Regards,
R
One of the charges was an old machine gun law that was designed to target drug traffickers.
That's the part that I've always thought was the most upgefuked part of the whole sordid affair.
DocHolliday01
01-03-10, 00:56
Well, I for one do not want to see this end right here. This is essentially stating that private contractors are allowed to get away with murder. One of them pled guilty, investigations say the killings were unprovoked, and these guys aren't in prison?
Unless people come forth and tell the truth about what happened, everything still points to them being responsible for the deaths of those civilians.
I'm not saying they did anything, I'm just pointing out that it doesn't exactly look like they're saints right now. Not out of the bush just yet. I don't want you to get the message that I think I have some sort of insider knowledge on this because I absolutely don't. I've just been reading the news stories on it and reading forums like this place where guys with some real experience in the sector can make things more clear.
And yes, I'm fully aware that good men have been falsely incriminated in the past for things alike this. I'd just like to see where this goes.
Sure looks like it to me.
John_Wayne777
01-03-10, 01:12
That's the part that I've always thought was the most upgefuked part of the whole sordid affair.
I believe it is known colloquially as "throwing the book at" them.
Yeah, but it's embarrassing when you don't even graze 'em with the book after you threw it with such vigor...
Gentlemen, please forgive my ignorance, but if I'm reading correctly are you saying that men fighting a war could in fact undergo some form of "civil' suit after a ruling has been handed down as though this was some type of civilian "bad shoot"?
lawusmc0844
01-03-10, 03:39
I am glad to see this outcome! War is hell, shit happens, right? Why should people even reenlist if they will get punished for doing their jobs!? (Made the mistake last year, at least I got 3 years left...) :rolleyes:
Just to piss of liberal shitheads, I SUPPORT BLACKWATER!
That may be tue. However, one need only look at the abusrdity of the charges to begin with. One of the charges was an old machine gun law that was designed to target drug traffickers.
I agree with you on that, regardless of whether their actions were right or wrong. Total chickenshit to stack them with the machinegun charge when they were using government sanctioned MGs in performance of a government contract, even if they did do something wrong or illegal. If they were in the wrong, so be it, but if they were it's not because of the guns they used.
I don't remember if I posted anything about it, but when this whole shitstorm started, I remember reading here and on other forums and thinking how absurd that was.
http://www.newsobserver.com/news/nation_world/story/300288.html
By MATT APUZZO - Associated Press Writer
BAGHDAD -- The U.S. will appeal a court decision dismissing manslaughter charges against five Blackwater Worldwide security contractors involved in a deadly 2007 Baghdad shooting, U.S. Vice President Joe Biden said Saturday.
Biden's announcement after a meeting with Iraqi President Jalal Talabani shows just how diplomatically sensitive the incident remains nearly three years later.
Blackwater security contractors were guarding U.S. diplomats when the guards opened fire in a crowded Baghdad intersection. Seventeen people were killed, including women and children, in a shooting that inflamed anti-American sentiment in Iraqi.
Biden expressed his "personal regret" for the shooting and said the Obama administration was disappointed by the dismissal. "A dismissal is not an acquittal," he said.
The U.S. rebuffed Iraqi demands that the U.S. contractors face trial in Iraqi courts. After a lengthy investigation, U.S. prosecutors charged five of the contractors with manslaughter and took a guilty plea from a sixth.
But the case fell apart in December after a judge found that the Justice Department mishandled evidence and violated the guards' constitutional rights. Prosecutors now face difficult odds getting an appeals court to reinstate the case.
The dismissal outraged many Iraqis, who said it showed the Americans considered themselves above the law. The Iraqi government began collecting signatures for a class-action lawsuit from victims who were wounded or lost relatives.
Messages seeking comment from lawyers for the guards were not immediately returned Saturday.
Blackwater has said the guards were innocent, contending there were ambushed by insurgents. Prosecutors said the shooting was unprovoked.
Court documents paint a murky picture of a case rife with conflicting evidence. Some witnesses say the Blackwater convoy was under fire; others say it wasn't. Some said the entire convoy fired into the intersection; others said only a few men opened fire.
Even the government's key witnesses, three members of the Blackwater convoy, at times seemed to undercut the government's case.
Since the shooting, Blackwater has renamed itself Xe Services and overhauled its management. Iraq has pulled the company's license to operate in the country.
WTH? Is this to appease the Iraqis?
Buckaroo
Paladin4415
01-23-10, 10:14
http://www.newsobserver.com/news/nation_world/story/300288.html
WTH? Is this to appease the Iraqis?
Buckaroo
Yes, they are playing politics with men's lives. Does it surprise you that our government would do such a thing?
Yes, they are playing politics with men's lives. Does it surprise you that our government would do such a thing?
No, unfortunately
Buckaroo
Look, they have a judges ruling that the United States violated their Constitutional rights. The Administration apparently isn't going to give up persecuting U.S. soldiers and contractors for political gain. If the folks at Blackwater (or whatever they want to call themselves) have a gonad left between them, it's time to bring the fight to the AG's doorstep.
They have lots of money. I see no reason they shouldn't take a pile of it and file suit against the United States for violating these contractors rights. They should use their considerable influence to have a congressional investigation initiated against the Justice Dept. They should openly call for a critical examination of the politics involved in deciding the fate of men far braver than themselves for political expediency. Hell, if they can find any skeletons in the closet they should personally attack the "holier than thou do-gooders" themselves. Perhaps it's time they got a personal lesson in asymmetrical warfare.
If someone were using the courts to attack me for political photo op's, I'd take it personal. I'd consider those people the enemy and give no quarter. There's no defense like a good offense. Put them on the defensive and hammer their ass till it looks like the Holland Tunnel. Quite simply, enough is enough.
5 years later and they have been convicted
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/23/us/blackwater-verdict.html?_r=0
The fact that I called this exatly three months shy of 5 years ago, does not make me happy. :(
FromMyColdDeadHand
10-23-14, 17:17
If they only knew someone who could fly a helicopter to break them out of jail... ;)
Using a machine gun in a war zone, the outrage!!!! Was the case in NY, they could have gone after them for the having more than 7 rounds in the gun.
Maybe the Iraqis would like some Blackwater guys back with ISIS on the loose.
We convict these guys for protecting our people, but Americans that go over seas to fight for ISIS, we don't even take their passports away......
If they only knew someone who could fly a helicopter to break them out of jail... ;)
Using a machine gun in a war zone, the outrage!!!! Was the case in NY, they could have gone after them for the having more than 7 rounds in the gun.
Maybe the Iraqis would like some Blackwater guys back with ISIS on the loose.
We convict these guys for protecting our people, but Americans that go over seas to fight for ISIS, we don't even take their passports away......
What really pisses me off is DoS got a free pass on EVERYTHING. Weren't they supposed to be holding the leash? :mad:
5 years later and they have been convicted
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/23/us/blackwater-verdict.html?_r=0
What a bunch of bullshit. This is what happens when men come under fire and defend themselves and others.
I wonder how long before we posthumously convict everyone involved with Dresden, Hamburg, Hiroshima and Nagasaki for "war crimes."
It's actually been 7 years. Nisoor Square happened in September 2007.
It's actually been 7 years. Nisoor Square happened in September 2007.
Correct, but its been 5 years since a Judge dismissed all charges. Thats the part that really blows my mind. First a judge dismisses all charges, and now at least one of them has been convicted of 1st degree murder, the four others all were convicted of murder or manslaughter.
thopkins22
10-24-14, 08:47
I still don't understand how they were tried in the United States.
Unfortunately by most accounts they DID mess up. Though the ambush they were responding to was real...it was over a long time before they ever showed up.
War zone or not, you're generally still accountable for your rounds, and this is the kind of thing that made dangerous places that much more dangerous. There were towns where people simply did not go through anymore because some BW convoy hit a lady crossing the street going 90mph and didn't stop...the locals simply turned on Americans or turned a blind eye to the insurgency after that.
So I don't weep for them, but I do think they got screwed because they were out of our jurisdiction(particularly for "machine gun used in the commission of a felony" and other such ridiculousness,) and were exempt from prosecution by the Iraqis. I think it's a case of if you screw the pooch badly enough, and screw it publicly enough, that you'll find yourself in the wrath of the US government without any backing from your firm. Prince says that he was screwed too, but I don't see that being the case...the Obama administration paid him roughly $300,000,000 before he sold Academi and bounced for Abu Dhabi.
This is why I think contractors conducting security ops in a war zone is a difficult situation. I know some guys that flew for Blackwater (or another sub) who are infuriated by this.
I still don't understand how they were tried in the United States.
Unfortunately by most accounts they DID mess up. Though the ambush they were responding to was real...it was over a long time before they ever showed up.
War zone or not, you're generally still accountable for your rounds, and this is the kind of thing that made dangerous places that much more dangerous. There were towns where people simply did not go through anymore because some BW convoy hit a lady crossing the street going 90mph and didn't stop...the locals simply turned on Americans or turned a blind eye to the insurgency after that.
So I don't weep for them, but I do think they got screwed because they were out of our jurisdiction(particularly for "machine gun used in the commission of a felony" and other such ridiculousness,) and were exempt from prosecution by the Iraqis. I think it's a case of if you screw the pooch badly enough, and screw it publicly enough, that you'll find yourself in the wrath of the US government without any backing from your firm. Prince says that he was screwed too, but I don't see that being the case...the Obama administration paid him roughly $300,000,000 before he sold Academi and bounced for Abu Dhabi.
No its outrageous, they should get off scot-free and be triumphed as hero's. [sarcasm off]
This is why I think contractors conducting security ops in a war zone is a difficult situation. I know some guys that flew for Blackwater (or another sub) who are infuriated by this.
So why is DoS allowed to do it? Why are they not required to use DoD personnel or <gasp!> DoS employees?
Plausible deniability anyone? :(
Collateral damage is only acceptable if it stems from a government drone strike.
Thrown under the bus for a political agenda, and convicted almost entirely based on conflicting testimony by witnesses.
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