Georgia Considers Vast Gun Law Changes

[Outlander Systems]

http://www.wsbtv.com/news/22082329/detail.html


ATLANTA -- Georgia lawmakers could consider vast changes to the state's firearm laws, including a push to allow gunowners with permits to carry their concealed weapons at a range of new areas, from churches to school zones to college campuses.

A flurry of gun-related proposals could be on the docket during next year's legislative session, including a sweeping overhaul that would allow the estimated 300,000 Georgians with gun permits to carry their weapons to more public gatherings.

Gun rights advocates are also trying to breathe new life into a proposal that would allow licensed gun owners to carry weapons in parts of Georgia's airports and give them more leeway to have their weapons on Atlanta's mass transit system.

"There's a definite need in the state of Georgia to clarify that law," said state Sen. Mitch Seabaugh, the chamber's majority whip. "When I talk to law enforcement officers who aren't necessarily clear on how to enforce it, that means to me we need a clearer law."

They will face stiff opposition from opponents who argue that tinkering with gun laws could lead to more violence. And supporters will have to fight for attention from legislative leaders who will likely focus on balancing the budget, promoting economic development and waging a war on traffic.

Lt. Gov. Casey Cagle, who said in the run-up to the last session he has "no appetite" for loosening the state's concealed weapons laws, said balancing the budget and providing more jobs are again at the top of his agenda for next year.

Incoming House Speaker David Ralston also said that while he's a strong supporter of gun rights, adopting a solid state spending plan will take priority.

"I'm not sure that this is a pressing issue right now," he said of overhauling gun restrictions.

Still, gun rights advocates plan a spirited push to build on a 2008 measure that allowed those with permits to carry firearms in state parks, restaurants that serve alcohol and mass transit. And they hope to reword parts of the state law after two decisions by federal judges struck a blow to their cause.

The first legal feud involved whether the new rules applied to Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta International Airport, the world's busiest. City officials quickly declared the airport a "gun-free zone" after the law took effect and warned that anyone carrying a gun there would be arrested.

Gun rights group GeorgiaCarry.org sued the city and the airport, saying it qualifies as public transportation under the new law. But a federal judge disagreed and dismissed the lawsuit, and a federal appeals panel upheld that decision a few months later.

The firearms lobby was dealt another setback in December when a federal judge ruled that Atlanta's mass transit system had the authority to stop and question a Georgia man who was seen carrying a gun at a train station. The gunowner had argued the 2008 law allowed him to do so.

Both rulings infuriated gun advocates, who said they would seek to specifically spell out that "public transportation" extends to both airports and train stations.

"The state law is very clear and for some reason we have some legislating from the bench," said state Rep. Tim Bearden, a Villa Rica Republican who sponsored the gun law. "It's all laid out in the legislation."

The proposals also seek to go further, including eliminating a restriction that bans gunowners with permits from carrying at public gatherings. That ban now extends to bars, sporting events, political rallies and churches.

It's being pitched as a way to bring clarity to Georgia's often confusing gun laws with a list of places where gunowners cannot bring their weapons. The draft proposal's list of such places is short: Jails, prisons and courthouses.

"Georgians deserve a clear and concise law that puts all of the off-limits places into one clear list so you don't need to hire a lawyer to figure out if you're legal or not," said Ed Stone, the president of GeorgiaCarry.org.

Critics, meanwhile, said they worry it could give rise to vigilante justice and jeopardize the public's safety. Alice Johnson of Georgians for Gun Safety said she was particularly concerned that the proposal would allow permitted gun owners to carry their weapons at college campuses and school zones.

"It's an accident waiting to happen," said Johnson. "The idea that we somehow don't have to use law enforcement as the reliable source of public safety and that everybody could just pack heat themselves is not foolproof. These people are not qualified to protect the public safety."

[tracker722]

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[DragonDoc]

As much as I look down on Georgia, they are heading in the right direction. I hope my home state of Florida will follow suit. Mrs. Johnson has missed the boat on the reason we have a right to bear firearms. The ideal of the founding fathers was that the individual has the right to protect themselves from tyranny and injustice. We don't bear our personal arms to protect society. We are protecting ourselves and our family. I guess some people will never understand that the only person that will reliable take care of you is yourself. It is the responsibility of the individual to take care of themselves. That includes protecting themselves from threats. I don't know why anyone would think that the police are going to come save them in their time of need. I guess our culture has been weened on to many movies where the Calvary always arrives in the nick of time to save the day. Reality is furthest from the truth and the modern American needs to learn some important lessons from our forbears who lived in the vast wilderness frontiers. No one is coming to help you. You had better be prepared to fight and survive on your own. The only other option is to D.I.P. (die in place).

Well enough of my rant. Happy New Year All!!!!

[A-Bear680]

"Gun Free Zones " with inadequate official security measures create hunting preserves for whacko murderers. Many other states do not have the long list of restrictions imposed in Georgia. For example , plenty of states allow legal CCW in churches: 31 states , the last time I checked. AFAIK -- for at least 11 years , Maine has had very few ( OK , closer to none ) of the restrictions that Georgia gun-grabbers claim are critical to public safety .

[FMF_Doc]

Obviously whackos like Alice Johnson are not aware of recent rulings that specifically state that the Police have no duty to protect the individual citizen, that's the bottom line.

Most of the time LE responds after the incident, takes evidence, photos, and reports and then possibly catch the bad guy.................. but in the meantime if it was a murder they are still just as dead with a conviction of the doer or not. More sheeple should realize the cold hard facts.

Before anyone takes that as a bash on LE, I was a sworn officer from 2002-2008 and in that time worked for both the County and then a State agency. It's just the nature of the beast can't be everywhere at once.

[Outlander Systems]

Obviously whackos like Alice Johnson are not aware of recent rulings that specifically state that the Police have no duty to protect the individual citizen, that's the bottom line.

Most of the time LE responds after the incident, takes evidence, photos, and reports and then possibly catch the bad guy.................. but in the meantime if it was a murder they are still just as dead with a conviction of the doer or not. More sheeple should realize the cold hard facts.

Before anyone takes that as a bash on LE, I was a sworn officer from 2002-2008 and in that time worked for both the County and then a State agency. It's just the nature of the beast can't be everywhere at once.

...That's how I've always looked at it. What the hell is someone supposed to do? Ask the bad guy to not shoot until the Police show up?

What chaps my ass about the GFL, is the "public gathering" clause. The ambiguity in that needs to be clarified, bigtime.

The other thing that rolls my goat are the "no-smoking" signs with a gun in the middle of the red slash, that some businesses have been sticking in their windows.

My policy is, you put a "no-gun" sign up, where it's perfectly legal for me to carry, then I'm going to put a "no-spend" sign on my ****in' wallet. I can't begin to tell you how hard those signs grind my gears.

As far as MARTA, there's no better place to allow citizens to defend themselves. I, personally, would not like to be stuck in a sealed vessel, unarmed, with an active shooter. No-carry on mass-transit is like a wacko's dreamworld.

[A-Bear680]

Atlanta , Georgia.
Where a McDonalds franchise owner hired an armed guard -- and the guard was WIA.
www.wsbtv.com/news/2209715/detail.html

Good thing the robber didn't hit a church bake sale.

[Outlander Systems]

Atlanta , Georgia.
Where a McDonalds franchise owner hired an armed guard -- and the guard was WIA.
www.wsbtv.com/news/2209715/detail.html

Good thing the robber didn't hit a church bake sale.

"Charges are pending after a shootout at a McDonald's restaurant in southwest Atlanta."

Thanks for reminding me why I avoid the "SWAts"...

"Someone tried to rob the same McDonald's Tuesday."

Classic.

[A-Bear680]

Gotta wonder if it was the guard's first night on the job.

[Outlander Systems]

Saw another "Gunbusters" sign at a furniture store over the weekend...

I'm guessing they're trying to say that they would prefer to not have my business?

Do you guys have these stupid things in other states? In GA, I know that they don't carry any legal weight.

ETA: Found a picture of one:

American Signature Home Furniture
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa140/moga_/IMG00013.jpg

Is it just me, or is the stated policy self-negating?

[Alex V]

Man... I can't keep reading this... It only makes me more and more sad.

Here you guys are complaining about not being able to carry on a bus, or in a store... I can't carry in the entire state lol

[Macx]

This is one area MN got 100% right. MN Carry Law (https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/?id=624.714) Subd. 17 allows places to post up signs & the signs must be in compliance to have weight (right font, right size, right location & every point of entrance, right ammount of contrast) however a citizen can walk right past the sign while carrying & isn't tresspassing. If they are open carrying obviously they would be more likely to be spotted, but they aren't tresspassing if they walk past a sign and aren't asked to leave by someone with authority (a business's employee, manager, the home owner, etc) and then refuse to leave. If they refuse to leave after being asked, then they are tresspassing and may be fined $25 for the petty misdemeanor (rather than the general trespass statute that is a full misdemeanor). In MN it is perfectly legal to carry concealed or open right past a legal sign prohibiting firearms & do business until asked to leave. What seems to have happened here, is that the compliant signs gave off the vibe that a place might be dangerous to the sheeple & so they took their business elsewhere. The signs came down the business went back up and the message was recieved by the business owners. In 2005 (I moved to MN in the same year their carry law was reinstated) there seemed to be signs up everywhere . . . now they are pretty rare and the ones I do see aren't compliant. Of course non-compliant signs or lack of signs still mean an employee can make a lawful request for a carrier to leave. I have only once been asked to leave a business (no sign) & was open carrying at the time. Not a practice I do much BTW.


Navigating Collapse, that sign cracks me up. What do they have, a sniper doing overwatch? How exactly does a furniture store provide a safe environment? :rolleyes: It does kind of remind me of the signs we have on county owned buildings hereabouts- "_______ county bans guns and dangerous weapons in these premises" with small print across the bottom of the sign saying "except as provided for under MN 624.714" Mind boggling really, they ban guns and dangerous weapons except those carried by law abidding citizens & expect that ban to mean something to the armed yet not lawabidding:confused: Of course the county posts these in incorrect font at incorrect locations just to add to the effect.

Okay, thats a wrap on this minirant. Yes, Georgia needs to get their carry law fixed.

[Outlander Systems]

Macx: Georgia's laws track the same way.

If I'm asked to leave, I must do so, or it is considered tresspassing; however, since these are private businesses, they could technically ask me to leave for having an untied shoelace.

I think, as a business, by ostracising any potential customer base on, let's be honest here, political grounds, that business is creating surefire way to lose business.

I have bought several pieces from ASHF in the past, but I promise you, they will NEVER receive another penny from me.

There's a notorious restaurant chain here in the metro area that is very much part of the Brady bunch. Some friends of mine were on leave, and visiting over the holidays, and wanted to go there for the beer.

Despite the insistence of my bros, I spent not a dime at the place. The more Gunbusters signs is see, the more I find myself wallet-voting.

[Outlander Systems]

Navigating Collapse, that sign cracks me up. What do they have, a sniper doing overwatch? How exactly does a furniture store provide a safe environment?

I'm trying to figure out how they'll keep me safe without any guns?

Considering, last I checked anyway, I'm still alive, I think I'm doing a fine job ensuring my own safety. I guess the store manager will take a bullet for me if an AS comes in to light the place up.

:rolleyes:

[NMBigfoot02]

Macx: Georgia's laws track the same way.

If I'm asked to leave, I must do so, or it is considered tresspassing; however, since these are private businesses, they could technically ask me to leave for having an untied shoelace.

I think, as a business, by ostracising any potential customer base on, let's be honest here, political grounds, that business is creating surefire way to lose business.

I have bought several pieces from ASHF in the past, but I promise you, they will NEVER receive another penny from me.

There's a notorious restaurant chain here in the metro area that is very much part of the Brady bunch. Some friends of mine were on leave, and visiting over the holidays, and wanted to go there for the beer.

Despite the insistence of my bros, I spent not a dime at the place. The more Gunbusters signs is see, the more I find myself wallet-voting.

Does this restaurant have "taco" in it's name?

[Outlander Systems]

Does this restaurant have "taco" in it's name?

As a matter of fact, it does. It was the one on Chastain in Kennesaw.

If it weren't for the 100+ beers available nobody'd touch that place with a 10 ft pole. There's plenty of mediocre food peddlers within a .22's radius of fire to that joint, which don't prominently display Gunbusters signs.

I have some "stories" from that place years ago...

[Heavy Metal]

Saw another "Gunbusters" sign at a furniture store over the weekend...

I'm guessing they're trying to say that they would prefer to not have my business?

Do you guys have these stupid things in other states? In GA, I know that they don't carry any legal weight.

ETA: Found a picture of one:

American Signature Home Furniture
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa140/moga_/IMG00013.jpg

Is it just me, or is the stated policy self-negating?

I wonder if they are opening themselves up to liability by stating in absolute terms that they are a safe environment.

[CryingWolf]

http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/8669/img00013z.jpg

There fixed it for ya!!!:p

[tracker722]

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[Outlander Systems]

http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/8669/img00013z.jpg

There fixed it for ya!!!:p

Dude, you are heroic. Thank you!

[NMBigfoot02]

As a matter of fact, it does. It was the one on Chastain in Kennesaw.

If it weren't for the 100+ beers available nobody'd touch that place with a 10 ft pole. There's plenty of mediocre food peddlers within a .22's radius of fire to that joint, which don't prominently display Gunbusters signs.

I have some "stories" from that place years ago...

Yeah, I like their selection, but that sign has always rubbed me the wrong way. I thought it had to do more with them being classified as a bar due to the amount of alcohol they sell rather than a political statement on their part.

[pinecone]

.

As far as MARTA, there's no better place to allow citizens to defend themselves. I, personally, would not like to be stuck in a sealed vessel, unarmed, with an active shooter. No-carry on mass-transit is like a wacko's dreamworld.

Riding MARTA, even armed, is asking for trouble...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRbgRffXvHk

[cannarella]

I have never seen one of those signs yet but I always see the ones on the big box home improvement stores in small print. GA is just a mess.

[Outlander Systems]

Riding MARTA, even armed, is asking for trouble...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRbgRffXvHk

She probably got on at my "Least Favourite Place in the Entire World".

Five Points Station.

I swear, the 5PS was George Lucas' inspiration for Mos Eisley. You truly will NEVER find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy.

ETA: I had about all I could take of downtown, when I worked at the Courthouse. :rolleyes:

[Outlander Systems]

One of my wife's coworker's fiance was home today at 14:00.

Two lowlifes attempted a HI while he was in the house. One pried the window open and had his arm inside, when the resident shouted at him. The two took off, and he noticed one was carrying a sidearm. The residents of the home own no firearms...

Further proving my point that, at least around here, HI's take place with multiple dudes, they're armed, and they're not afraid of the sunlight.

[NMBigfoot02]

One of my wife's coworker's fiance was home today at 14:00.

Two lowlifes attempted a HI while he was in the house. One pried the window open and had his arm inside, when the resident shouted at him. The two took off, and he noticed one was carrying a sidearm. The residents of the home own no firearms...

Further proving my point that, at least around here, HI's take place with multiple dudes, they're armed, and they're not afraid of the sunlight.

HI's like that make a great case for a ready to go AR as and HD weapon.

Every time I hear stories like that in ATL it scares the shit out of me. Seems like there's more and more of them every week.