Opinions... LMT MRP vs. BCM Middy

[SIGinthesky]

Happy New Year to all. I would greatly appreciate opinions from endusers on the following: I'm looking to buy a midlength 16" carbine with railed handguard and SOPMOD stock for around $1500. I want quality/reliability as it will be used in carbine classes, HD and general defensive training. I have read all I can find about middy gas systems and have narrowed my choices down to LMT MRP CQB and BCM middy. I have "done the math" on assembling one from BCM's website and with a plain middy upper $425 (not cold hammer forged), BCM complete lower($350), bcg($130), gunfighter handle($45), DD Omega 9" rail ($275)and SOPMOD stock($200), the bill totals at around $1550 give or take. A NIB MRP from Clyde Armory is $1499. $50 to $100 difference is not an issue, but is it just me or is the LMT option "better" given the additional options to change calibers, barrel lengths and the one piece upper advantages? I don't really have a need for the interchangeability of barrels, and there are no SBRs in my future. Just a solid, top tier mid-length carbine with my favorite stock and some rail space. I know with the MRP I'll be "stuck" with 9" of rail, which is plenty for my needs, so the need to switch out rails is a non issue for me.

The MRP comes with the non H buffer and semi bolt carrier, which seems to be the preferred set-up for a middy system. The BCM lower will have an H buffer and their bcg's are listed as "auto", so these seem more fitting for a carbine length system. I have been juggling the pro's/con's of each option for a while now but cannot seem to make up my mind. Any feedback/advice would be greatly appreciated. Other brand suggestions are welcome.

Thanks in advance.

[13F3OL7]

So far my experience with my BCM middy has been good. I placed it on a Territorial Gunsmiths lower that was bought before BCM's lowers had come out. I run an H buffer in mine and so far perceived recoil is almost negligible. I'm about 5' 11.5" and weigh around 195 so that probably plays a part in it as well. Accuracy out of it is good. On the last range trip to confirm/re-zero after moving sights, I was able to keep 22 out of 30 rounds in the black on a M4 zero target, using irons and Eotech.

Except for the lower and lower parts kit I believe I bought everything that went into building it from Grant and only spent about $1300 give or take. Hope that rambling mess helps some.

[ForTehNguyen]

I built a BCM middy with the following for around $1550 total the other day:

BCM Midlength + Larue Tactical 12.0 Rail
BCM Auto Bolt Carrier Group + BCM Gunfighter Charging Handle Mod3
CMMG lower
G&R Lower Parts Kit + H Buffer + Buffer Spring
Magpul ACS Stock
Magpul Full MIAD Grip
Magpul MBUS Front/Rear Sights
Magpul BAD
Milspec Buffer tube

easily doable to get a quality setup with $1500

[Belmont31R]

You still need tools, and new parts to change the MRP to another caliber.


I like the idea behind the MRP but its just not a high priority for me. If I wanted another caliber Id just build an upper around that caliber. Based on all the snapped MRP bolts Ive seen the system seems rather fragile to me as well, and knowing me Id probably break one.


The mono upper is nice but not a requirement. It also means you are locked into buying LMT MRP barrels, and the entire rest of the market is excluded from that.


So make up a list of pro's, and con's for each setup then decide. For me there are too many cons when there is so many more options on the market with less cons and more pro's.

[the_accuser]

I agree with Belmont31R about making a list of pro's con's for each. I have both the rifle length and CQB length MRPs and love them. Of the tons of threads on various forums I have only seen a couple regarding broken bolts and all MRP users know the supplied torque wrench from LMT is junk and should be replaced with a quality one. Some folks are turned off by the fact that you have to use LMT barrels but they are great quality. I have bought a couple from folks selling theirs at good prices. With LMT having .204 ruger, 5.56 and 6.8 calibers and Spikes having .22LR and 9mm you have a wide caliber range to use in one platform.

[RogerinTPA]

I have the rifle length MRP middy. It is a good accurate weapon but it is heavy compared to my other carbines. My only saving grace is that I can change out the BCG, convert the barrel to a 6.8, and use it as a hunting rifle in the near future and/or, get an middy upper from BCM with a DD 12" lite rail. If I had to do it again, I'd go strictly with a complete middy from BCM, again with the DD 12.0 Lite Rail.

[Iceberg]

I have a LMT Defender 16" M4 carbine. I'm planning on buying a LMT 16" CQB MRP Piston upper for my rifle later this year. LMT makes great stuff!

[yallknowho]

the MRP is kind of old news. I'd probably go with a BFH BCM with a quality rail.

[Spooky130]

I've got a rifle length MRP and a BCM middie. In my opinion they are two different beasts.

The MRP is a fairly heavy rifle. The barrels are high-quality and I've heard rumors (seen no real proof) that the blanks are from Mike Rock. Their profile is pretty heavy - probably a mid-weight barrel compared to others.

The tools required to change the barrels can be pretty cheap - all you need is a torque wrench and a torx bit and you can swap out easy enough. A decent set-up would cost $50 to $75. I'm not worried about the bolts breaking - it seemed that was found to be mostly the crappy torque wrench they send with the rifle being calibrated incorrectly or the owner messed with it changing the torque setting.

Then you need a barrel and bolt and you can have a different length barrel or one made from a different material or one that is a different caliber or even a piston system. The problem with this is that LMT has only released a few calibers (5.56, 6.8, .204 Ruger - WTF?) and Spikes has their two (.22LR and 9mm). So you are really stuck to their barrels and any flaws they may have (6.8 barrel has a sub-optimal chamber and twist for the round). At one time you could get the barrel extensions and have it mated to your own barrel but I haven't seen one of those in years.

If you don't see yourself swapping barrels very often it might be best to go with something else. I had high hopes for more caliber selection with the MRP but it hasn't really happened. When the MRP came out it was about the only thing going for a continuous top rail - now there are a lot of options to get that feature.

Don't let this get you down - the MRP is a tremendous platform. I've used it for training and ran it through a class shooting nearly 1500 rounds without cleaning it - it ran flawlessly. It is very modular and that opens up doors many platforms can't compete with. Also not that LMT just won a contract with the UK military for a DM rifle - they submitted their 7.62 version (not yet released in the States) which beat out several competitors using the same system as the MRP.

Here's my list of PROs:
Modular
Reliable

CONs:
Expensive
Stuck with limited LMT barrels
Heavy barrel profile

I would buy one again but it would be CQB length so I could use all barrels and the piston system if I wanted...

Spooky

[edwin907]

I've got both lengths of MRP uppers an 4 different barrels for them.
The 16" SS barrel initially seemed to be the one to get for precision, but the later 18" barrels seem to be quite good as well for heavy 75/77gr ammo (old 1/8 new 1/7?).
Both uppers with any barrel have been dead nuts reliable.
The true continuous rail gives great flexibility in optics selection and is ideal with NV and IR laser use, the system's greatest asset.

The CQB with the 16" SS barrel is accurate and handy, and quickly/easily changed to a 10.5" SBR configuration.

It's an expensive setup, but it's the best upper money can buy, the barrel selection isn't bad but needs to be updated in 6.8, and ADCO can profile/cut any of the barrels to suit.

http://bellsouthpwp.net/e/d/edwin907/_A156454.jpg

http://bellsouthpwp.net/e/d/edwin907/PRS1.jpg

[SIGinthesky]

Thank you all for the advice and feedback, it is greatly appreciated.

ForTehNguyen: Thanks for the build prices on the BCM.

Belmont31R: The pros/cons list idea is great, I am doing one to help me see the "big picture" at a glance. The snapped bolts issue concerns me, but The_Accuser's and Spooky130's comments put me at ease... I can't see LMT putting out faulty bolts, but it could be user-error...

Spooky130: Thanks for the detailed feedback, especially concerning the heavier "medium contour" weight of the LMT barrels.


On the subject of weight, is it really much of a difference? :( For an "apples to apples" comparison: The MRP CQB model with the shorter rail section and the CL 16" barrrel is 6.8 lbs as per the LMT website. A stock Colt 6920 is 5.9 lbs so a BCM midlength carbine should be a few ounces more (since it lacks the 203 cuts on the barrel?). So, by the time I add a 9" rail to the BCM middy(9 to 14 ounces depending on manuf.) and I add the few ounces difference from the SOPMOD stock, wouldn't the two carbines be about the same weight give or take a few ounces? The weight issue does concern me since I've never held an MRP CQB, so owners please chime-in concerning the weight of the CQB.

What I'm trying to find out is: Would a BCM midlength carbine with 9" rail and SOPMOD stock plus fixed rear sight weigh about the same as the LMT MRP CQB? This might be the deal breaker in my decision, since I lean more towards the MRP.

Thanks again to all.

[SIGinthesky]

edwin907: Thanks for the info and pics, those are two awesome toys you have there! ;)

[Slippers]

A stock Colt 6920 is 5.9 lbs so a BCM midlength carbine should be a few ounces more (since it lacks the 203 cuts on the barrel?).

Actually, the midlength weighs less than a 6920 barrel.

Both are 16" long, and yes the carbine barrel has the 203 cuts forward of the FSB, but the midlength is profiled under the handguards for an additional 2 inches.

[SIGinthesky]

Thanks, Slippers, that makes sense. I never thought about the extra 2 inches of profiled barrel on the middy which would make it lighter than the 6920.

Now, if only I could get a forum member with a BCM middy with 9" rail, SOPMOD and rear BUIS to put theirs on a scale....... :D

[Slippers]

Well, I can give you something close. Unfortunately I don't own a sopmod stock, but according to http://www.03designgroup.com/technotes/ar15-buttstock-considerations (thanks Jeff), it weighs 1.4 oz more than a CTR, which I do have.

Mine weighs ~ 6lbs 11oz for:

BCM 16" middy
BCM lower
BCM bcg
9" omega rail
CTR w/enhanced pad
MIAD
MBUS

I removed my aimpoint and scar panels before weighing it. The enhanced butt pad surely adds a bit more weight, too, but I don't have the original thin one handy to check the difference. Sorry!

[RetreatHell]

Sig,

Here are some great links to some really good intel on BCM upper weights and an awesome review Jeff wrote up as well about BCM uppers and lowers and why they are highly recommended by serious shooters from all walks of life:

BCM Upper Weights (http://www.03designgroup.com/technotes/ar15-upper-receiver-weight-comparisons)

BCM Uppers and Lowers Review (http://www.03designgroup.com/reviews/bcm-complete-ar15-upper-and-lower-receivers)

Both links contain a lot of great info and are very pic-heavy too;)

Hope this helps you find what you're looking for, man! It's a GREAT read either way, though!

Semper Fi,

-Paul

[blake-b]

I absolutely love my MRP and it was my 2nd AR.

I'm looking at getting a 12" piston MRP around tax time. I'd like a rifle length as well. Too bad you can't just buy the chassis unless you find someone parting one out...

However, if I wasn't so enamored of MRPs, the BCM would be my new love.

Then, there is the .308 MWS coming out too...

My current MRP configuration (my duty weapon)
http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/4941/pict0023pr.jpg

[SIGinthesky]

Slippers: Outstanding! :)Thanks for taking the trouble to weigh your carbine. Your set-up is the configuration I envisioned for comparing to the MRP CQB. Adding an ounce for the SOPMOD stock makes it 6 lbs 12 oz or 6.75 lbs. This compares very well with the MRP CQB direct impingement carbine at 6.8 lbs. as per the LMT website/catalog.

RetreatHell: Thanks for those BCM links, Bro! Great stuff on there.

blake-b: Nice carbine and glad to hear of your satisfaction with the MRP system.
I too read that article on the LMT MWS .308, sure looks promising. Is that the model that won the UK MOD contract?

Thanks to all who replied!

[Dennis]

I have a MRP CQB with 14.5" chrome lined barrel. I also have or have had many various carbine uppers to include a 6920 and BCM middy. My other current carbine upper is a VLTOR MUR with Larue 9.0 and Noveske 14.5" barrel. I originally purchased the MRP to be able to switch barrels, but it turns out that the completely solid feel and slim profile make it seem lighter/easier to point than all my other uppers. This is just my subjective opinion and makes no sense, but it is what it is. I have taken many carbine classes with everything from Bushmaster to Colt to MSTN customs and I just like the feel of the MRP a lot. I would bet this extends to other monolithic platforms as well.

Just another thought to consider. I might just be a the crazy one here :)

Dennis.

[blake-b]

62 page MRP thread (http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=12&t=258362)


Yes, that's the one that won the UK MOD contract. Toward the end of the thread I pasted above are some pics of the MWS. I think there are some earlier in the thread as well.

[LMTRocks]

I got to put a 6.8 MRP in my hands a few weeks ago. It wasn't heavy at all....very ergonomic too. It also had a 5.56 barrel and bolt in the combo. If LMT would make the 6.8s 1:11 twist they'd sell like the 308 probably.

[kittyhawk]

I talked to Siginthesky last night and he ordered the MPR-CQB from Clydes Yesterday.
I think he made a great choice.
Knowing him he will be laying awake at night just waiting........Count rounds going down range........:D

Told him to start buying Ammo and Mags.

Dave

[QuietShootr]

The MRP CQB is a ****ing fantastic weapon. Mine is so accurate, I'm tempted to put a Nightforce on it.

I can't wait for the new MRP .308.

[SIGinthesky]

Like Kittyhawk said in the above post, an MRP CQB should be on its way soon. Now just to save up for ammo, mags, more ammo, more ammo....

Thanks to all who replied with their opinions and knowledge. It is greatly appreciated. I love to read user feedback from MRP owners, so if you feel like posting, keep the posts coming! :D