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VA_Dinger
03-21-07, 01:03
What ever happened to the Russian AN-94 (Abakan)?

http://club.guns.ru/images/an94-1.jpg

I remember reading that it won some Russian army competition to replace the AK series, but then it just seemed to drop off the face of the earth.

Did they run out of money?

Business_Casual
03-21-07, 07:57
The same thing that happened to the XM-8, probably. Money.

M_P

Dport
03-21-07, 08:38
From what I heard it is very difficult to maintain. The ergos suck compared to the AK-74. It's about 5 times as costly to produce. And is only being adopted by Russia's elite.

LOKNLOD
03-21-07, 09:41
Is that the one with the barrel that reciprocated and fired really rapid 2-shot bursts or something?

And what is going on with that muzzle device? Interesting.

K.L. Davis
03-21-07, 10:02
Is that the one with the barrel that reciprocated and fired really rapid 2-shot bursts or something?

And what is going on with that muzzle device? Interesting.

Yes, the first two shots are practically on top of each other...

The thing at the end of the barrel is a muzzle brake that used... ummm, like whistle chambers to reduce (through modification) the sound.

ETA: Vid of firing (http://club.guns.ru/images/video/an94.rm)

TOrrock
03-21-07, 11:21
A combination of things, but mainly money.

The Russians have hundreds of thousands of perfectly good AK-74's, AKS-74's, and AK-74M's, they can't afford to just adopt another rifle, just for the sake of getting something with a high CDI factor.

Actually, the AKM is making a comeback among their more elite units who appreciate the bigger, heavier bullet of the 7.62x39mm.

LOKNLOD
03-21-07, 11:24
Yes, the first two shots are practically on top of each other...

The thing at the end of the barrel is a muzzle brake that used... ummm, like whistle chambers to reduce (through modification) the sound.

ETA: Vid of firing (http://club.guns.ru/images/video/an94.rm)

Very interesting. I wish I could see video from work but Websense is the devil...

It looks like the tub under the barrel is fixed, and the barrel travels on a small linear rail-type setup. If so I can see where that could be a major sticking point for debris in the field. How does the action operate? Recoil? I don't see how the gas could be vented from the barrel to operate any piston.

I need to watch the vid, all I can picture now is the muzzle brake emitting a high-pitched tweet with each shot.

VA_Dinger
03-21-07, 12:34
Very interesting. I wish I could see video from work but Websense is the devil...


:D

I know how you feel.

They are a bunch of fascist bastards.

ygbsm
03-23-07, 11:47
Just ask the IRA. They got a couple dozen or so.

VA_Dinger
03-28-07, 00:59
Just ask the IRA. They got a couple dozen or so.


The IRA got some AN-94's?

TOrrock
03-28-07, 07:05
The IRA got some AN-94's?

bullshit

The IRA got a lot of stuff from the USA (Armalite AR-18's, Colt AR-15's, Ruger Mini-14's), and a lot of Warsaw Pact stuff from middlemen (Libya), and after the fall of Communism in Europe, the Warsaw Pact had a going out of business sale with a lot of stuff coming in, but no AN-94's.

Mostly the IRA used captured Brit equipment and home made ordnance. When I was in Belfast in 1999, things had calmed down tremendously, but the guys I talked to said that the majority of stuff they used came from the USA.

Augusto
07-09-11, 16:58
ETA: Vid of firing (http://club.guns.ru/images/video/an94.rm)

Video isn´t available anymore. Someone saved it?

SteyrAUG
07-09-11, 22:00
The same thing that happened to the XM-8, probably. Money.

M_P

Actually more like what happened to the HK G11. Everything was ready to go for it to be the "new" gun and then communism failed and suddenly nobody had money for anything. And the fact that there were no foreign consumers ready to buy it meant it went nowhere.

Miami_JBT
07-09-11, 22:11
Three things happened.

1. The Soviet Union collapsed and all their cash (in a Communist Society of all things) went out the door. Their armed forces went broke along with everything else. No rubles to pay their troops with let alone to pay arm factory workers and the companies that would make those rifles. They have millions of AK-74s in service and will not be replacing them anytime soon. They are doing upgrades to them with new stocks, etc... but the AK-74 is there to stay for a LONG TIME.

2. The market was flooded with cheap AKMs and AK-74s. The wonders of free market capitalism. No foreign government wanted to buy the new rifle when they could get a ton of AKs for cheap. That's what the Russians get for handing out AKs to anyone that claimed to be a Socialist and hate the USA. Also it has destroyed their foreign market for the AK-10x series of rifles.

3. It's a piece of crap and makes AK ergonomics looks nice. Russian Special Forces and their Ministry of Internal Affairs troops have hated it. They have gone to the AK-10x series in either 5.45x39mm and some have gone to those chambered in 7.62x39mm for a better punch in CQB environments.

SteyrAUG
07-09-11, 22:28
3. It's a piece of crap and makes AK ergonomics looks nice. Russian Special Forces and their Ministry of Internal Affairs troops have hated it. They have gone to the AK-10x series in either 5.45x39mm and some have gone to those chambered in 7.62x39mm for a better punch in CQB environments.

In fairness, the M-16 didn't have a stellar debut. And it was eventually refined into one of the best small arms we have ever seen. The 94 was certainly an interesting idea.

WAR FACE
07-09-11, 22:51
The ak200 is there newest variant. remember reading a defense review article about it. supposed to us a quadrupole stack 60rd mag similar to the surefire.

Miami_JBT
07-10-11, 04:43
In fairness, the M-16 didn't have a stellar debut. And it was eventually refined into one of the best small arms we have ever seen. The 94 was certainly an interesting idea.

The problem is even though the AR-15 had a hiccup in it's launch it was a damn nice little rifle and was a step forward; lighter weight, smaller caliber, higher capacity, simple design, etc..... The AN-94 is a step back for the Russians. If they want something to replace the AK series the AN-94 isn't it. I think further refinement of the AK series is the future for the Russian Armed Forces and I think the next big breakthrough for all of us is caseless ammunition.

Every major advancement in firearms has been because of ammunition and the feeding devices for it.

Miami_JBT
07-10-11, 04:48
The ak200 is there newest variant. remember reading a defense review article about it. supposed to us a quadrupole stack 60rd mag similar to the surefire.

That mag design has been around for a loooonnnng time. The Spectre M4 (Cold War), Hafdasa C-4 (Pre-WWII), Suomi KP/-31 (Pre-WWII), and the newest the Chinese QCW-05 all use the casket design magazine.

The Soviets had casket mags back in the 1980s.

crazymoose
07-10-11, 04:50
It looks like the tub under the barrel is fixed, and the barrel travels on a small linear rail-type setup. If so I can see where that could be a major sticking point for debris in the field. How does the action operate? Recoil? I don't see how the gas could be vented from the barrel to operate any piston.

There is a long-stroke piston, and part of the receiver recoils, as well. A picture is worth a thousand words:

http://operatorchan.org/k/arch/src/k263359_An-94%20Akaban%20cutaway.jpg

The thing looks like it has more parts than an Ural. Besides the cost, it doesn't seem to fit with the typical Russian small arms design philosophy.

WAR FACE
07-10-11, 11:27
That mag design has been around for a loooonnnng time. The Spectre M4 (Cold War), Hafdasa C-4 (Pre-WWII), Suomi KP/-31 (Pre-WWII), and the newest the Chinese QCW-05 all use the casket design magazine.

The Soviets had casket mags back in the 1980s.

I realize its nothing new but seems to be a small step in the right direction for assault rifles. There is only so much modernization that can be done to the ak without a complete overhaul of the design which is probability not cost effective. Even the ak 200 looks like they smacked a picatinny rail on a ak74 and called it a "modern" assault rifle. I think the Russians ot to take a hard look at the urgonamics of the ak platform and go from there.

WAR FACE
07-10-11, 11:39
I do not think caseless ammunition is a step in the right direction for it does not allow for reloading. how much cheaper would it be then regular ammo? a polymer or synthetic casing capable of resizing may be the answer.

TOrrock
07-10-11, 12:13
I do not think caseless ammunition is a step in the right direction for it does not allow for reloading. how much cheaper would it be then regular ammo? a polymer or synthetic casing capable of resizing may be the answer.


The Russians don't reload their steel cases, the US military does not reload it's brass cases.

We're talking military weaponry, not the ability of the US shooter to reload.

Spooky130
07-10-11, 13:42
That mag design has been around for a loooonnnng time. The Spectre M4 (Cold War), Hafdasa C-4 (Pre-WWII), Suomi KP/-31 (Pre-WWII), and the newest the Chinese QCW-05 all use the casket design magazine.

The Soviets had casket mags back in the 1980s.

"Casket" or "coffin" - I've heard the term "coffin" but not "casket."

Spooky

SteyrAUG
07-10-11, 17:28
I do not think caseless ammunition is a step in the right direction for it does not allow for reloading. how much cheaper would it be then regular ammo? a polymer or synthetic casing capable of resizing may be the answer.


The big problem with caseless is heat and the resulting cookoffs. When the action doesn't open to spit out the case it also doesn't vent heat. This was a major problem with the G11 in development.

Thomas M-4
07-10-11, 21:29
There is a long-stroke piston, and part of the receiver recoils, as well. A picture is worth a thousand words:

http://operatorchan.org/k/arch/src/k263359_An-94%20Akaban%20cutaway.jpg

The thing looks like it has more parts than an Ural. Besides the cost, it doesn't seem to fit with the typical Russian small arms design philosophy.

Cool that is the first cutaway I have seen of the AN-94. Unfortunately it doesn't show the cable and pulley arrangement very well but you can see it in there. Which I remember reading about yrs ago and always interested me in its operation, If my memory serves me correct the pulley and cable combination is the key to high speed 2 round cyclic rate operation.

The reason I believe there hasn't been a new weapon adopted on either side is because we are on a, plateau for fire-arms design the current standards are very good and until telescoping cased or caseless ammo is perfected the only-thing on the orison will only be incremental improvement which seems no one is willing to spend the money on. [Changing out systems for one that only can offer a incremental improvement no one seems willing to do.] For anybody wanting to know what the next gen weapons might look like. My guess would be cased telescoping ammo that offers 30-40% less weight and volume per case with a quad stacked magazine that offers 30-40% more ammo capacity than the standard 30 round magazines coupled with the possibility of less moving parts from telescoping ammo operation with the possibility of having the number of parts off set by having the the fast 2 shot burst feature of the AN-94.
http://www.defensereview.com/stories/aailmga/LSAT%20ps05-11-06c.pdf

If some one can combines all of these improvements then you would have the next gen small arm.

Miami_JBT
07-11-11, 11:23
Cool that is the first cutaway I have seen of the AN-94. Unfortunately it doesn't show the cable and pulley arrangement very well but you can see it in there. Which I remember reading about yrs ago and always interested me in its operation, If my memory serves me correct the pulley and cable combination is the key to high speed 2 round cyclic rate operation.

The reason I believe there hasn't been a new weapon adopted on either side is because we are on a, plateau for fire-arms design the current standards are very good and until telescoping cased or caseless ammo is perfected the only-thing on the orison will only be incremental improvement which seems no one is willing to spend the money on. [Changing out systems for one that only can offer a incremental improvement no one seems willing to do.] For anybody wanting to know what the next gen weapons might look like. My guess would be cased telescoping ammo that offers 30-40% less weight and volume per case with a quad stacked magazine that offers 30-40% more ammo capacity than the standard 30 round magazines coupled with the possibility of less moving parts from telescoping ammo operation with the possibility of having the number of parts off set by having the the fast 2 shot burst feature of the AN-94.
http://www.defensereview.com/stories/aailmga/LSAT%20ps05-11-06c.pdf

If some one can combines all of these improvements then you would have the next gen small arm.

The current improvements in design right now will not be in the firearm itself but the material it's made out of. But even then that is trivial. You're preaching the same thing I am. All major advancements with firearms have been with ammunition first and methods of ignition. Cased ammo is the future. When and how? Not sure.... if the Cold War didn't end the West German Army would be armed with G11s. The G36 was H&K's back up to a back up. H&K was pushing the G11 as the new thing followed by the G41. The G36 came to being after the Cold War ended and the Federal Republic of Germany wanted to upgrade to new rifles but didn't have the cash to afford G11s or G41s.

rojocorsa
07-11-11, 11:36
A lot of the Russian designers have come up with neat and wacky designs through the years. I remember seeing some kind of bullpup rifle all in a bakelite looking body (the color of those awesome Afghan era orange bakelite mags)---and this rifle was from the '60s. Chambered in 7.62x39. I forget the name of it though.

It is certainly hard to beat the AK as a weapon for a large military, from its simplicity of manufacture and relative cost and all that. But is the future of AKs in the reciprocating 107 and 108 designs? These are supposed to greatly mitigate recoil, or so I read.


Glad to hear that the 7.62 is making a comeback. :)

Cobra66
07-11-11, 11:52
bullshit

The IRA got a lot of stuff from the USA (Armalite AR-18's, Colt AR-15's, Ruger Mini-14's), and a lot of Warsaw Pact stuff from middlemen (Libya), and after the fall of Communism in Europe, the Warsaw Pact had a going out of business sale with a lot of stuff coming in, but no AN-94's.

Mostly the IRA used captured Brit equipment and home made ordnance. When I was in Belfast in 1999, things had calmed down tremendously, but the guys I talked to said that the majority of stuff they used came from the USA.

Not wanting to take this thread on a big tangent, but who supplied all the US made equipment to the IRA? Was it covert shipments from sympathetic Irish-American NGOs in the US? I remember being at some parties in college where the hat was being passed for the IRA.

Suwannee Tim
07-11-11, 12:42
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gOozMdEV_AU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tWOoUsE3-Q0

The Russians truly do some whacky things, a 5.45 mm pistol being an example. An aircraft that uses grain alcohol for a coolant is another. This rifle evidently has no feature where an empty mag locks the bolt back. Go figure. It appears to be very controllable in full auto fire. I have a couple of air rifles that have actions that ride on rails after the shot. It makes for a smooth firing cycle and good accuracy but at the expense of complexity.

SteyrAUG
07-11-11, 14:16
This rifle evidently has no feature where an empty mag locks the bolt back. Go figure.

Same is true for all AKs.

Suwannee Tim
07-11-11, 16:57
Same is true for all AKs.

So I have been told. I don't know much about them. You would think at some point the Ruskies would see the value in the feature and incorporate it in the next design. But, as rojocorsa said, they do things their own way.

Cobra66
07-11-11, 17:51
So I have been told. I don't know much about them. You would think at some point the Ruskies would see the value in the feature and incorporate it in the next design. But, as rojocorsa said, they do things their own way.

Not really sure why the AK was never designed with the bolt hold open mechanism. The feature was not new to the Russians as both of the gas rifles that preceded the AK (STV and SKS) had them. I'm just figuring that Gospodin Kalashnikov wanted to keep it as simple as possible?

Did the MP44 have a bolt hold open mechanism?

TOrrock
07-11-11, 19:51
Not wanting to take this thread on a big tangent, but who supplied all the US made equipment to the IRA? Was it covert shipments from sympathetic Irish-American NGOs in the US? I remember being at some parties in college where the hat was being passed for the IRA.

Pretty much this.

Running around West Belfast, I was everybody's friend when they found out I sold guns in the States.

TOrrock
07-11-11, 19:53
Did the MP44 have a bolt hold open mechanism?


Nope. Neither did the post war roller locking systems (HK, CETME), or the British L1A1, or the FNC.

rojocorsa
07-12-11, 09:41
I guess "bang, bang, CLICK." was good enough for everybody back then.

SteyrAUG
07-12-11, 12:23
I guess "bang, bang, CLICK." was good enough for everybody back then.


Actually there was a whole training doctrine devoted to counting bursts and changing magazines. If you ran a rifle, even an AR dry, it was considered an error on your part.

Back then if you had a mechanical click it had better be because a round FTF and not because you had an empty chamber or you were going to hear about it.

Personally I prefer a BHO simply because it gives a firearm more opportunity to cool and vent heat, especially when talking about select fire.

MilitaryArms
07-12-11, 16:47
The whole rifle looks like an afterthought. I mean, it looks like they finished it up and while showing it to the brass someone said, "hey, you forgot the pistol grip".

Magic_Salad0892
07-12-11, 17:11
Actually there was a whole training doctrine devoted to counting bursts and changing magazines. If you ran a rifle, even an AR dry, it was considered an error on your part.

Back then if you had a mechanical click it had better be because a round FTF and not because you had an empty chamber or you were going to hear about it.

Personally I prefer a BHO simply because it gives a firearm more opportunity to cool and vent heat, especially when talking about select fire.

I've heard that, but didn't know how true it was.

Do you know anywhere I could read about that more? (Old Russian training doctrine.) I know that was around in WW2.

JoshNC
07-12-11, 17:34
Actually there was a whole training doctrine devoted to counting bursts and changing magazines. If you ran a rifle, even an AR dry, it was considered an error on your part.

Back then if you had a mechanical click it had better be because a round FTF and not because you had an empty chamber or you were going to hear about it.

Personally I prefer a BHO simply because it gives a firearm more opportunity to cool and vent heat, especially when talking about select fire.

I seem to also recall reading that the Russians would put tracers in as the last few rounds to signal it was time to change mags. It was in Gun World magazine (now out of print) that I seem to remember reading this and I believe it was in an article on the Abakan. This article would have been in the mid 1990s as I was in high school at the time.

Any validity to this or am I regurgitating gun rag BS?

rojocorsa
07-13-11, 01:12
I thought it was "us" that did the tracer thing in Vietnam... ?

montrala
07-13-11, 08:28
Doctrine of massive fire power of infantry assaulting enemy positions firing full auto on the run did not require bolt hold open functionality. It also complicates training of conscription soldiers.

For use by units who actually use aimed and controlled fire to achieve their goals, different methods were used. Putting tracers just before end of magazine (each soldier had his own system, so only he knows how many rounds left) was one of them. Units that uses secondary (not that popular idea in Warsaw Pact) were trained that empty mag is malfunction and they need to switch to secondary.

But there is also other reason, that I just learned some time ago. Weapon constructors in Warsaw Pact believed that weapon with bolt on bolt catch can go into battery by when rifle is hit and bumped. When demonstrated that M16 and M4 does just that, they were amazed that US military can use such un-safe weapons.

SteyrAUG
07-13-11, 11:25
I've heard that, but didn't know how true it was.

Do you know anywhere I could read about that more? (Old Russian training doctrine.) I know that was around in WW2.


I don't know if the Russians ever did it. I first encountered it with a couple SBS guys and then it seemed anyone who had "official" LE training with the MP5 was taught that way.

rojocorsa
07-13-11, 19:22
How come the Yugos did bother making those certain AK mags with bolt hold open? Did those work for them in their M-70s? Can the bolt even be locked back in one of those? (Never handled one, that's why I ask such a dumb question.)

Hell, the only AKs I've seen in person where WASRs, Saigas, and one very nice milled Bulgy Arsenal.

TOrrock
07-13-11, 20:14
How come the Yugos did bother making those certain AK mags with bolt hold open? Did those work for them in their M-70s? Can the bolt even be locked back in one of those? (Never handled one, that's why I ask such a dumb question.)

Hell, the only AKs I've seen in person where WASRs, Saigas, and one very nice milled Bulgy Arsenal.


The follower on the Yugo magazines holds the bolt back, but as soon as you remove the magazine, the bolt carrier slams forward, there's nothing that holds the bolt back.

It's ****tarded.

You're much better off with standard AK magazines that don't lock the bolt carrier to the rear.

lloydkristmas
07-13-11, 23:34
The follower on the Yugo magazines holds the bolt back, but as soon as you remove the magazine, the bolt carrier slams forward, there's nothing that holds the bolt back.

It's ****tarded.

You're much better off with standard AK magazines that don't lock the bolt carrier to the rear.

I hate AK mags that do that. Never saw the point.

GermanSynergy
07-14-11, 01:07
The follower on the Yugo magazines holds the bolt back, but as soon as you remove the magazine, the bolt carrier slams forward, there's nothing that holds the bolt back.

It's ****tarded.

You're much better off with standard AK magazines that don't lock the bolt carrier to the rear.

Too much slivovitz....

rojocorsa
07-14-11, 01:25
The follower on the Yugo magazines holds the bolt back, but as soon as you remove the magazine, the bolt carrier slams forward, there's nothing that holds the bolt back.

That's what I thought. And then I even try to make sense of those by assuming that the bolt can be reatained somehow.

It's ****tarded.

Definitely agreed :jester:

You're much better off with standard AK magazines that don't lock the bolt carrier to the rear.


Oh, yes. I'll be getting some standard Eastern European steel mags for that SGL that I'm planning on. The lame part is the fact that I have to make them hold 10 rounds because I live in the land of nuts and fruits. But it is what it is.

duece71
07-14-11, 08:58
Cables and pulleys???? :lol: Mouse trap or death trap.
Whats next....a plasma rifle in 40 watt range?? Too funny.

SteyrAUG
07-14-11, 11:37
I hate AK mags that do that. Never saw the point.

I usually leave one in my range bag, when I'm done shooting I put that mag in it to hold the action open to let the rifle cool. But for training they actually slow things down as they are harder to remove than a standard magazine because they are holding the action open.

Belloc
07-15-11, 09:19
Edit.

rojocorsa
07-15-11, 20:12
Why would they tilt the mag like that?

Jaws
07-15-11, 20:29
Why would they tilt the mag like that?

That's the Russian version of ambi rifle.:lol:

montrala
07-16-11, 05:48
Why would they tilt the mag like that?

This might be needed for system that feeds from magazine into recoiling receiver, then from it's feed ramp into chamber. Just wild guess.

Thomas M-4
07-16-11, 12:09
Wish I still had that gun rag that explained the operation and features of the AN-94. I can not remember why the the mag was tilted but montrala could be right. What was stuck in my head was the cable and pulley system.

montrala
07-16-11, 16:38
Nice video on development of Russian "Automats". AN-94 since 32:20. Later something more intetresting - balanced weapon automatics.

Warning - video is in Russian!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G8BBlvLt3c8&NR=1

rojocorsa
07-16-11, 19:06
I watched that whole thing and all the Russian gun porn was awesome!

Belloc
07-17-11, 02:19
Edit.

rojocorsa
07-17-11, 02:31
Maybe Nikonov thought that you could load mags faster like that? :confused:


This has to be the only gun in the world that does this!

Belloc
07-17-11, 04:08
Edit.

montrala
07-18-11, 07:06
In "normal" auto fire AN-94 seem to jump as much as any other rifle of this type would do. Russians were doing some FA accuracy comparisons of AN-94 and M16 and claimed that AN-94 can put full mag in 1/4 of area that M16 does. But it was not very scientific.

Later in this video is shown prototype with balanced action - that reduces momentum of moving parts to zero. That is interesting idea.

Moving front sight is not a problem - shooter will not notice is movement anyway.

BTW there are some other interesting videos from this series, on sniping rifles and on silenced/special firearms - Russians seem to think that using silencer is lame and for some constructions they went very different way.

RogerinTPA
07-18-11, 08:24
Maybe Nikonov thought that you could load mags faster like that? :confused:

I was thinking the same thing...to facilitate fast mag changes for right handed shooters. Assuming that everyone in Russia is taught to shoot right handed, regardless of hand dominance.

montrala
07-18-11, 08:44
I was thinking the same thing...to facilitate fast mag changes for right handed shooters. Assuming that everyone in Russia is taught to shoot right handed, regardless of hand dominance.

It can be. Nikonov started to work on his desing in '80s. This time in Warsaw Pact armies soldiers were trained to use right shoulder to fire long firearms, despite of eye dominance or right/left handed. Official way to change magazine was with right hand.

This days lot of soldiers use left hand to change magazine and to operate charging handle (from uder recevier - this way as demonstrated on video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EqYxhanNimA))

Anyway, I asked this on one local forum, attended with people that have vast knowledge of firearms history and construction. Hopefully I will be able to relay good answer soon :)

RogerinTPA
07-18-11, 11:01
It can be. Nikonov started to work on his desing in '80s. This time in Warsaw Pact armies soldiers were trained to use right shoulder to fire long firearms, despite of eye dominance or right/left handed. Official way to change magazine was with right hand.

This days lot of soldiers use left hand to change magazine and to operate charging handle (from uder recevier - this way as demonstrated on video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EqYxhanNimA))

Anyway, I asked this on one local forum, attended with people that have vast knowledge of firearms history and construction. Hopefully I will be able to relay good answer soon :)

Good video. I'm surprised they'd use a more modern and efficient technique. Was the soldier in the video GROM? He seems much more proficient in weapons handling than the average soldier. Which reminds I need to practice more with my AK variant and take a formal AK class or two.

montrala
07-18-11, 11:42
Good video. I'm surprised they'd use a more modern and efficient technique. Was the soldier in the video GROM? He seems much more proficient in weapons handling than the average soldier. Which reminds I need to practice more with my AK variant and take a formal AK class or two.

Guy on video is from 1.PSK (1 Pułk Specialny Komandosów - 1st Special Commando Regiment). He used Mini Beryl. Recently 1.PSK changed wz. 96 Beryl and Mini Beryl carbines to HK416D165RS and HK416D145RS carbines. GROM is using mostly AR platform basically since they were formed up some 20 years ago. Currently it is HK416D10RS for line units and KAC SR16 for support units. They used M4A3 and Bushmaster XM15E2S earlier.

Hopefully I will get my own Mini Beryl soon and will train some of those wild magazine changes! :D

rojocorsa
07-18-11, 11:50
That mag change reminds me of the ones for the Magpul videos. :lol:

montrala
07-18-11, 12:52
That mag change reminds me of the ones for the Magpul videos. :lol:

You can see this mag change also on some Russian videos. Especially with Specnaz soldiers. Also I believe that one of Magpul main instructors happen to operate in same time in same area that our SOF did. Who seen it where and who started it first? Things sometime go full circle and world is smaller and smaller.

montrala
07-19-11, 06:59
I have confirmation that shifting AN-94 magazine well to the right and caning magazine was forced by construction of cable driven ammo feeder and need to put magazine feed lips as close as possible and in same distance for both lips to bore centreline from this shifted position. This assured that all masses moves in plane with bore centreline (no offset moving masses that would obstruct weapon balance) and magazine can reliably feed for 1200 round per minute speed.

Shifted magazine well is clearly visible here:

http://militarism.fatal.ru/shooting/an-94_3.gif

Archetype
07-19-11, 17:31
I guess I'm not really contributing much to this but man is the AN-94 a cool design:smile:

SteyrAUG
07-19-11, 18:04
I guess I'm not really contributing much to this but man is the AN-94 a cool design:smile:


Honestly, that is where I began, and the more I learn about it I now see it as more of a contraption. An interesting contraption to be sure, but still a contraption.

Moose-Knuckle
07-19-11, 18:48
I have confirmation that shifting AN-94 magazine well to the right and caning magazine was forced by construction of cable driven ammo feeder and need to put magazine feed lips as close as possible and in same distance for both lips to bore centreline from this shifted position.

"Anything that is complex is not useful and anything that is useful is simple. This has been my whole life's motto." - Mikhail Kalashnikov

Kind of puts it all into perspective dosen't?

Thomas M-4
07-19-11, 23:35
When I first read about the cable and pulley system yrs ago my reaction was the same as most of the other posts. But if you stand back and think about it cables and pulley have been used for more than a millennia . Though I am not totally sold on the concept but I would like to learn more on just how it is being utilized in the operation of the AN-94.

montrala
07-20-11, 07:45
When I first read about the cable and pulley system yrs ago my reaction was the same as most of the other posts. But if you stand back and think about it cables and pulley have been used for more than a millennia . Though I am not totally sold on the concept but I would like to learn more on just how it is being utilized in the operation of the AN-94.

So you can contemplate this:

http://i2.guns.ru/forums/icons/forum_pictures/001467/1467528.jpg

And this (already posted in this topic):

http://i2.guns.ru/forums/icons/forum_pictures/001527/1527726.jpg

General idea behind making this construction was to increase hit probability in aimed fire using iron sights. By shooting 2 rounds very fast one after other you increase probability that at least one will hit (you create area effect). Russians were also testing double bullet ammo, but it proved unfeasible in medium or rifle cartridge (but they use them in bigbore quad barrel JakB 12.7 mg on Mi24).

This day problem of hit probability is solved by use of electrooptical sights (RDS) that more and more are used as main aiming device. And who knows how Metalstorm type of weapons will develop in future.