Sleep Systems

[Outlander Systems]

What sort of sleep system are you running?

Currently, I've been using the Snugpak Softie Elite 2 bag with a Therm-A-Rest pad.

http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/6287/snoozin.jpg

Specs:
Temperature Rating: Comfort: 36°F ; Low: 27°F
Weight: 46 oz.
Length: 86 in.

This year, Georgia's been cold. Damn cold. I'm pushing the limit of what this bag was probably designed to do, and I'm considering snagging a "winter" bag. Last trip I went on I woke up freezing my ass off.

Since I've set up my CFP-90 solely as a winter pack, I may just do up a different sleep system dedicated to that bag.

Pros:
Very lightweight
Extremely compact
Warm, until temps start pushing 25°F
Excellent closure around face
Easy, to get in and out of, especially for the design
Surprisingly rugged
Expansion panel very helpful

Cons:
Not a four-season sleeper, unless you're in a "winterless" climate

The con, really isn't. You'd be hard pressed to find a bag that can take up as little space as this does, and still keep you cozy at the freezing point.

My "chill" issue may have been compounded by not using the sleeping pad, and being in a hammock.

Regardless, I'm going to use this as a three-season bag, and get something that can go down to 0°F for my winter system.

[PlatoCATM]

Have you considered adding a liner to extend the range to a little lower temperature? They can add 10-15 degrees and can prolong the life of the bag too. I picked up a sea-to-summit silk liner, and it's extremely comfortable, but I haven't been able to drop it in a bag to really test it (I used it in a shady hotel a couple of times). You might try to make your own also. It can be as simple as a rectangular bag with seams on 3 sides, or you could run some velcro on one edge. If you can sew a seam, and can source a viable material of your choice you can make one much cheaper than they sell for. As much as I like mine, I wouldn't buy it again as I'm fairly confident I could make it for half as much.

I've been looking at the softie elite for some time now, and if I can get back into backpacking more regularly I may pick one up. Currently I use an inexpensive slumberjack that's rated to 40 degrees. It is a bit bulky, but a solid bag for the cost. I don't think I would use it for serious backpacking though due to the bulk and weight, it's a great car-camping bag though.

[MIKE G]

.......

[Outlander Systems]

Have you considered adding a liner to extend the range to a little lower temperature?

I had thought about getting a fleece "sleeping bag" for the interior, as well as possibly adding a wool blanket to my current setup. The jury's still out on whether or not I will add to, or do a winter bag.


I've been looking at the softie elite for some time now, and if I can get back into backpacking more regularly I may pick one up.

The Softie Elite 2, for me, is the perfect bag. So far, I've been GTG up until around Mid-December.


As someone who sleeps in a hammock quite a bit, your chill factor was due to being in a hammock.

Definitely. I didn't mention that I didn't bring the pad either, so I definitely was pumping heat out of my backside.

The A-Sym is undoubtedly my next purchase. I'm waiting for REI to cough up my dividend for this year, and hopefully they'll have one in stock. I was originally gunning for the A-Sym, but wanted a hammock immediately, so I ended up going with the Eagle's Nest. Awesome setup, but I want the Hennessey as well.


I have heard complaints of Snugpak bags being cold however I think people just have unreasonable expectations for the bags. I have used them extensively and they are good bags, particularly considering the size.

I think bag-makers have a propensity to over-estimate, sometimes grotesquely, their temperature ratings. I would say, though my experience with Snugpak consists solely of the Softie Elite 2, is that their rating is the most accurate of any of the bags I've tried.

[Ak44]

I run a Recon 3 bag and the USGI gortex bivvy.

[Von Rheydt]

I looked at hammocks as being the choice of hippies. But after I tried one I was converted instantly. They are much more comfortable, better in wet weather and away from ground critters.

I use:

- Hennessy Hex Fly 70D. This is great for hammocking, it makes a mean 4 man bivvy or a two person tent - depending on how you rig it. I have added two extra guyline loops as extra insurance for windy conditions.

- Nomadsland hammock. These are the favoured hammock of the British bushcraft community. They cost around $20 are dual colour, mine is OG and tan. Throw the hooks that come with it and replace with micro carabiners which makes it quicker to set up.

- Bug net. This covers the complete hammock.

- RAB sleeping bag. I have a 3 season bag to give versatility. In the warm weather it is used as a quilt in the cold weather add a liner or put some socks on.

I am working on an underquilt for cold weather. Being a tightwad I am making my own out of thinsulate and pertex so that it is warm and windproof.

[ra2bach]

I'm sure your coldness was due to being exposed underneath.

I have both the Exped SynMat Deluxe and a Big Agnes AirCore and I much prefer the Exped:

http://www.rei.com/product/780369

[M4Fundi]

I keep Silk Cocoon liners in all my bags. They make them warmer, extend the life of the bag by keeping body oils out of insulation and act as a sheet to keep you covered even with the bag open if it gets warm.

In most environs I use a Thermarest. I have a Thermarest LE I use for base camp and then use the Guide-lites in the field or closed cell foam for the field in Africa (too many thorns for Thermarests).

In the jungle I use a Thermarest in my hammock and a silk liner bag and a gore windstopper blanket (its water proof) I sometimes use a Hennesy Hammock.

I have 5 bags. The 3 I use the most are Western Mountaineering Gore Dryloft -30 & 0 degree bags and a Sierra Designs Wild Bill 20 degree bag with synthetic fill.

I also keep a beenie in all the bags.

[Von Rheydt]

I keep Silk Cocoon liners in all my bags

Years back I was told by a USAF SP guy that had done Vietnam that they used to have silk in their headgear. The reason being that as it was the product of one insect other bugs would not come and try to live in it - thinking that it may be the house of a big spider.

+1 for silk.

[piggly_wiggly]

Thanks to the influence of another board member here, I've been slowly increasing the number of options on sleep systems to fit different conditions. Right now my two primary bags are a Mt Hardware Lamina (20 degree, synthetic), and a Marmot Never Summer (0 degree, down)- both are full zip. Just picked up an ultralight 30 degree bag (no zip) for a song which I'm excited to try soon. The Lamina was the first purchase I made with a specific trip in mind- used it with a Neo-Air in Georgia last month, in conjunction with a Sea-to-Summit Reactor (Thermolite liner) and had a tough time on a ridge the first night- the winds were compressing my bivy onto my thighs and I was waking up from the cold. After sleeping on and packing the Neo-Air, I've pretty much relegated my other Thermarest pads to backup status- very comfortable and uber compact/light.

[REdTula]

I'm running a double hammock, mummy sleeping pad wrapped in a (Thermolite) fleece liner, 20° Mountain Hardwear goosedown bag, Gore-tex bivy cover, and a custom made rain fly seen below..... (Tested to 16°F last week)

For hot bug weather I have a Skeeter-Beeter hammock. IMHO, there's no sense in paying $100 for a sleeping pad or a hammock. $30-50 is the most you need to spend.

Put the sleeping pad inside the fleece liner and zip the liner closed. Then slide the pad covered liner into your sleeping bag. This keeps you from sliding off the pad.

http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/5005/image018z.jpg

http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/9518/image021sa.jpg

[piggly_wiggly]

That's a nice rain fly dude- is that MultiCam? Which fabric did you use and what is your total weight? We've got some stuff goin on in our skunkworks ;)

[REdTula]

That's a nice rain fly dude- is that MultiCam? Which fabric did you use and what is your total weight? We've got some stuff goin on in our skunkworks ;)Yep... :D

I used the 70D FR coated Multicam material from Duro Industries. Total weight of the rain fly is @1.5lbs measuring 7.5ft x 10ft. Send me some Gore seam tape if you have a line on some. I would like to seal the seam with something more than liquid seam sealer.

http://www.duroindustries.com/index.php?page=70d-1-9oz-nylon

[Von Rheydt]

Yep... :D

I used the 70D FR coated Multicam material from Duro Industries. Total weight of the rain fly is @1.5lbs measuring 7.5ft x 10ft. Send me some Gore seam tape if you have a line on some. I would like to seal the seam with something more than liquid seam sealer.

http://www.duroindustries.com/index.php?page=70d-1-9oz-nylon

Very nice, and thanks for the link.

Did you use silnet for the seams? I know a couple of guys who have made their own and they used builders silicone from Home Depot.


That's a nice rain fly dude- is that MultiCam? Which fabric did you use and what is your total weight? We've got some stuff goin on in our skunkworks ;)

When Sir.

[Jaddra]

I just ordered a recon 3 sleeping bag (0 C/29 F) and i was wondering if anyone on here has any experience with them? I needed a replacement on my standard issue MSS modular sleeping system (too bulky). I am planing to combine the recon 3 with a sleeping mat and Hennessy "Evasion" Hammock.

http://mission-outfitters.com/ProductImages/recon3/recon3sm.jpg

[Mat]

I've been eyeballing a dual layer Blackbird (http://www.warbonnetoutdoors.net/blackbird_h.htm) for a while now. Anyone here have any experience with them?

[piggly_wiggly]

Sure, coming right up- I'll just snip some off from my handy Gore seam tape roll right her... uh... huh????
OK, someone just walked off with my 1000 yd roll... sorry dude.
:D

In all seriousness, we don't have any tape. We are just messing around with different products and concepts at the moment. I'm not really happy with the weight of the 70D, but it is the only thing going in MC for a sil-tarp application.

This was a pic I snapped while inside a 3 layer PTFE bivy I used on a multi-day outing- that was a cooooooold night then. The material performed admirably.
http://i875.photobucket.com/albums/ab313/patrolincidentgear/IMG00440-1.jpg

We don't have any dates for specific product releases on any of our shelter projects... I was hoping that by calling them "Skunkwork" projects it would infer "unavailable", but I can see how that would only fan the mystique- poor choice of terms on my part- my bad!


ETA: http://soldiersystems.net/tag/kelty/ (http://soldiersystems.net/tag/kelty/) I like what they did to save weight... crushes my bivy in the weight department...

[RAM Engineer]

I just ordered a recon 3 sleeping bag (0 C/29 F) and i was wondering if anyone on here has any experience with them? I needed a replacement on my standard issue MSS modular sleeping system (too bulky). I am planing to combine the recon 3 with a sleeping mat and Hennessy "Evasion" Hammock.

http://mission-outfitters.com/ProductImages/recon3/recon3sm.jpg

Who makes that Recon 3 bag and do you have a link? I'm looking for something that will pack down to about that size. I thought Snugpak had one, but I haven't figured out which one it is yet.

Thanks,
Jason

[Jaddra]

I think the same product was manufactured by several companies - halo, recon manufacturing, etc and they are all located in Australia (i think). The one I order is made by Anysoldier ?? (NATO STOCK NO 66-146-06-76) but cannon confirm 100%. I purchased mine from ExtremeOutfitters and let me tell you - the customer service is just outstanding ... 3 minutes (literally) after placing the order I got a phone call from them to inform me that the sleeping systems are on back order until end of January and they will provide free UPS.

LINK: http://www.extremeoutfitters.us/browseproducts/Recon-3-Sleeping-Bag.HTML

PS I just came back from 2 days in the woods and let me tell you this MSS is really bulky when on foot. Can't wait to get the Recon3 and test it.

[Ak44]

I used my Recon 3 bag for all my field ops and deployments. Very compact and combine with a USGI Gortex Bivvy sack it's pretty nice. The bug net feature was really nice when I was in GTMO spending the night outside while on the ranges.

[REdTula]

Sure, coming right up- I'll just snip some off from my handy Gore seam tape roll right her... uh... huh????
OK, someone just walked off with my 1000 yd roll... sorry dude.
:D

In all seriousness, we don't have any tape. We are just messing around with different products and concepts at the moment. I'm not really happy with the weight of the 70D, but it is the only thing going in MC for a sil-tarp application.

This was a pic I snapped while inside a 3 layer PTFE bivy I used on a multi-day outing- that was a cooooooold night then. The material performed admirably.
http://i875.photobucket.com/albums/ab313/patrolincidentgear/IMG00440-1.jpg

We don't have any dates for specific product releases on any of our shelter projects... I was hoping that by calling them "Skunkwork" projects it would infer "unavailable", but I can see how that would only fan the mystique- poor choice of terms on my part- my bad!


ETA: http://soldiersystems.net/tag/kelty/ (http://soldiersystems.net/tag/kelty/) I like what they did to save weight... crushes my bivy in the weight department...Lol...don't sweat the tape but do keep me in mind if you find where I can get some. I did seal the seams with a "silnet" type product but have yet to test the seams. Today might be a good chance to test them.

EDIT: Scratch that I found a line on some seam tape!.... tjarand@stedfast.com

"Seam-sealing tape is available in 0.875 & 1.0 inch widths.
Please contact Todd Jarand at Stedfast for your tape needs."


I can tell you from my observations that the 70d coated appears to be the exact same material as commercial manufacturers such as Eagles Nest (ENO) uses for their rain flies. I have an ENO rain fly and it appears to be the same except for the cut/shape and of course the color. They are so close that I'm using the ENO rain fly stuff sack for my multicam fly. I'm still not finished with the guy lines yet. I don't like the plastic clamps because they add weight to my pack. But they do work very well and are very versatile.

I can't remember the 3 layer PTFE from my sample pack but IIRC it was similar to the Gore-tex material and had good flame test results but very expensive. I just threw my sample pack away with all my notes. Honestly the only thing I'm using my Gore-tex bivy for is to lower my 20° bag's rating. It's not for rain protection at all. I have no plans on sleeping on the ground, especially in the rain.

One thing to keep in mind about Kelty's bivy is they may be giving up durability for weight savings. They don't really say what "1.25oz" material they used for the top layer other than a proprietary blend. Gore-tex has been proven tough and durable even though IMHO it has poor breath ability when compared to other materials.

[Jaddra]

I just ordered a recon 3 sleeping bag (0 C/29 F) and i was wondering if anyone on here has any experience with them? I needed a replacement on my standard issue MSS modular sleeping system (too bulky). I am planing to combine the recon 3 with a sleeping mat and Hennessy "Evasion" Hammock.

http://mission-outfitters.com/ProductImages/recon3/recon3sm.jpg

Got the sleeping bag few days ago, as I mentioned before the guys from Extreme Outfitters did outstanding customer service job (the bag was on back order). The bag is similar to the MSS patrol bag, with the exception that is a little more compressible.
Pros:
-smaller size (made from thermolite, so more compressible) (size&weight is very close to the snugpak)
-bug net (very neat feature to keep the creepy crawlers out)
-name label (inside the bag)

Cons:
-Zippers (not sure if they are heavy duty, but time will show)
-Zipper pulls missing (makes it easy to open/close) Solution: did it myself with paracord (the od green paracord is the same color as the bag so perfect match)
-Smaller size when compered to the patrol bag (I am 5'10 175lb and the bag is ideal size, but may be a little smaller for bigger fellas)

Did not had a chance to field test it yet except using it briefly Saturday Night at 60F and it felt very worm and cozy.

[keller]

Any updates on using the Recon 3? Im looking to pick up a Recon 4 but would like to hear more opinons/review of the bag.

[Jaddra]

Any updates on using the Recon 3? Im looking to pick up a Recon 4 but would like to hear more opinons/review of the bag.

I just had a LASIK vision correction done and did not had the time for serious field testing. Actually now I remember that I used it once at 60F and I was very worm (had to keep the zippers open). The weather forecast for this weekend is 40F and if so I will definitely try it again ...

[Jaddra]

Any updates on using the Recon 3? Im looking to pick up a Recon 4 but would like to hear more opinons/review of the bag.

Field Test:
i just tested the Recon 3 -5C° Sleeping Bag on my recent trip in the woods. The trip occurred in Florida and the temperature at night got down to approximately 48 F. I did use my sleeping pad underneath even if the night was clear and dry.
I am very impressed at the low-weight and compact size of this sleeping bag. When the bag was compacted and stuffed into its compression bag it hardly took up any room in my sack. During the night, the sleeping bag did quite well in keeping me nice and comfortable (I slept in a 3 season tent) The bag ended up being the perfect weight for keeping me comfortable at night. Early in the morning when got cold enough and I had to zip the sleeping bag up all the way the bag became a little tight in my shoulders. Not tight enough to make sleep difficult but tight enough to make it a little constricting so rolling over and tossing around at night was a little tough. (compared to the MSS Recon Bag). Also as I already mentioned I added zipper pulls to make unzipping easier. Also to note that the bug net feature is nice and I am sure will protect me from mosquito and bugs. The seams are very well stitched and all the components are of high quality. I am very happy with this bag so far and will make a perfect replacement on the old Modular Sleep System.

P.S. Just like all sleeping bags I think the -5C° its a little overrated :) (unless using a Bivy)

[cmiller683]

My sleeping system doesn't quite match up to what I'm about to post. Lets call it my dream sleep system...

http://cascadedesigns.com/images/product/medium/tar_neoair_angle.jpg
Therm-a-Rest Neo-Air Self Inflating Mattress Pad

http://cascadedesigns.com/images/product/medium/tar_zlite_angle.jpg
Therm-a-Rest Z Lite Closed Cell Foam Pad

http://www.campmor.com/wcsstore/Campmor//static/images/sleeping/46561.jpg
Marmot Lithium 0 Degree Down Mummy Bag

http://cascadedesigns.com/images/product/medium/Compressible_Pillow_1_.jpg
Therm-a-Rest Compressible Pillow

Plus I was in to the store the other day and they had in a bag-liner that goes over your mummy bag. It's similar to an emergency blanket, but it breathes better. It claims to raise the temp 15 degrees.

All this, plus a set of Under Armor, some good wool socks, and a good beanie hat, and I could be plenty comfy in the north during the winter. The warmer it is, the less I would use.

[M4Fundi]

I have a Z-rest that I tried to use in alpine areas to reduce weight and the only problem I have with it is the slotted design holds snow and when you sleep on it the snow will sometimes melt wetting the bag

and you can never get the snow out of the slots... I would rather use a smooth closed cell if I'm not using a Therma-rest.

[LMT Shooter]

No one is mentioning Wiggy's sleeping bags. I have a FTRSS that I have used very little, but I am impressed. Anyone have experience with any Wiggy's products?

[hatidua]

If I could make a suggestion (to nobody in particular): be sure to trial-sleep in whatever bag you expect to potentially use, in the temperature it's rated for. What may be a warm enough bag for one person at 30* might have another person freezing.

I know that I sleep cold, and therefore pack far warmer bags than many other people would consider necessary. However, I like to stay warm at night :)

[wake.joe]

http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb300/AdrianJoe/IMG_1426.jpg