View Full Version : Brass Life Cycle?
Tried a search and then some brute force in this section, no luck. I don't have much experience reloading rifle ammo. Plenty of pistol reloading for IPSC shooting but just started on the AR.
What have you guys found to be the life cycle of your AR brass when loaded to 5.56 performance levels?
I can't seem to produce ammo with the same level of accuracy I have in previous batches. I'm using the same bullets, primers and powder. The only difference is the number of times I've used the brass.
I used to get about 1 MOA groups without too much effort, now I'm 1.5 to 2 or more in some cases from the same carbine.
I've done nothing special, just tumble the brass, prep it with Dillon case lube and go to it with my Dillon 550.
Thanks
MarshallDodge
01-03-10, 23:18
Do you trim your brass?
I make "accurate" ammo and plinking ammo. With my accurate ammo I have used the same case five times and have not seen an issue. All of the cases have the same headstamp and are trimmed to the same length.
Plinking ammo is most any brass including military with the primer crimp removed that I throw in the same pile and use the cheapest bullets, powder, and primers I can find.
Make sure the powder you are using meters well in the Dillon powder measure. I have had excellent results with ball powder but certain stick powders are very inconsistent. Hodgdon Benchmark is much better than Varget in my Dillon and my guess is because of the shorter grain.
Do you trim your brass?
I make "accurate" ammo and plinking ammo. With my accurate ammo I have used the same case five times and have not seen an issue. All of the cases have the same headstamp and are trimmed to the same length.
Plinking ammo is most any brass including military with the primer crimp removed that I throw in the same pile and use the cheapest bullets, powder, and primers I can find.
Make sure the powder you are using meters well in the Dillon powder measure. I have had excellent results with ball powder but certain stick powders are very inconsistent. Hodgdon Benchmark is much better than Varget in my Dillon and my guess is because of the shorter grain.
Up to now, no trimming of cases. I take it that will help a good deal?
I use Accurate 2520 and 2230, both meter very well. After getting the charge set right I take 5 or 10 rounds and drop the powder into the scale. Divide by the sample size to gage the consistency.
How many times have you loaded that particular brass? You're full length resizing? Please measure it and post the results.
In my experience, what I find becomingvthe limiting factor is primer pocket integrity. Remove and/or swage away the crimp and you'll find you'll only get a couple of reloads per case before pockets get loose.
Up to now, no trimming of cases.
Potentially a big problem here - your 5 times loaded brass could be much longer than maximum.
Reloading rifle requires sizing and then trimming to length. Trimming might not be required on every reload (or it just might be depending on numerous factors). It's always a good idea to trim before the first reload.
I'm digging out my .223 reloading gear for the first time in awhile so someone correct me if I'm wrong: Trim to length for .223/5.56 is 1.750" and maximum length is 1.760". Check your reloading manuals to verify.
You need a decent set of calipers so you can check your sized cases and set up a trimmer. Also a case gauge to set the resizer. Big pain in the ass compared to pistol.
I'm currently processing some once reloaded - by me - LC brass. This was originally pre-processed Sarch brass (sized, trimmed to ~1.750, and crimp removed). The first 10 or so through the sizer measured from 1.748 to 1.778". They will all go through the trimmer.
Factory brass that was only fired in your gun might not be as bad, but you need to check it. I'll sometime reload twice after the first initial trimming when reloading factory brass that was fired in my rifles.
Number one, to answer your question on case life. A little longer than I expected when I first started reloading 556. Up to 10 reloads without problems. I have been using the RCBS X die. Which according to RCBS will eliminate the need to trim brass. **After the first trim, and following the directions. I've had good success so far.
Number one, to answer your question on case life. A little longer than I expected when I first started reloading 556. Up to 10 reloads without problems. I have been using the RCBS X die. Which according to RCBS will eliminate the need to trim brass. **After the first trim, and following the directions. I've had good success so far.
your necks get thicker (according to my understanding of how it works). Notice any problems with that?
e-guns, not so far. But I haven't been using the X die that long. I do have that brass segregated. By necessity....not because I'm anal. (have to know which brass has been trimmed and sized in the X die first.) I'll try to keep you posted. I generally shoot around 800/week of 556 reloads. So it shouldn't take me long to get a handle on any down side. But the weather, which usually doesn't stop me. It's been brutal. Snow every day for the last 24 days. Just enough to keep things nasty. And unusually cold.
I am tagging this one - interested in your feedback Herd on the XDie - I too got one, but continue to load on a boatload of shot once brass. Once I am done with all of that(which I am collecting/separating) will make the XDie swap.
How are you cleaning the barrel?
Need a recrown?
Checked other loads to see if there is a accuracy shift? (IF you are on the same batches then this is not likely)
Dies not shifted? You might need to take more care and pay more attention to your loading process. Has anything changed and you not realised it?
I would hope you have tried a really decent clean with proper copper and carbon solvents, bronze brush and keep going until it's CLEAN. It might simply be a carbon or copper issue building pressures and knocking you out of the accurate zone of the loads you normally use.
Re: the last post. IMO, more barrels are damaged and/or ruined by excessive and improper cleaning than shooting. Do some research before you go whaling away on the cleaning rod.
That's why I asked how he was cleaning ;)
Up to now, no trimming of cases. I take it that will help a good deal?
I use Accurate 2520 and 2230, both meter very well. After getting the charge set right I take 5 or 10 rounds and drop the powder into the scale. Divide by the sample size to gage the consistency.
Have the responses solved the problem? Or is there still a foul?
Have the responses solved the problem? Or is there still a foul?
I'm in the market for a trimmer now. I'm going to start sorting and trimming. I've measured some of my brass and they run the gambit. I've even found some that is shorter than spec, that I find strange.
Either way I'm going to sort my brass out into 'blasting' and 'accurate' and start trimming the 'accurate' batch.
Thanks everyone!
I use a Wilson case trimmer. I'm very happy with it. Shorter brass is not that uncommon. FC brass seems to always be the shortest brass I run into.
I'm in the market for a trimmer now. I'm going to start sorting and trimming. I've measured some of my brass and they run the gambit. I've even found some that is shorter than spec, that I find strange.
Either way I'm going to sort my brass out into 'blasting' and 'accurate' and start trimming the 'accurate' batch.
Thanks everyone!
Are you at least CHECKING your case lengths? I'm a big NO TRIMMER, but I batch check my brass to make sure it's not far over max if at all.
If my brass gets too long, I recycle it. If you're loading to 5.56 presures, you should be checking your brass length closely. ESPECIALLY if you're using an expander ball in your resizing die. Expander balls cause a lot of case stretch.
I took my expander out of my die and switched to a separate neck sizing die. This greatly reduces case stretch because it sizes the neck on the down stroke. Plus, my bullet runout was greatly reduced. That DIRECTLY translates into improved accuracy, Cleatus!
It's not unusual to find cases that seem short. But remember we are measuring thousandths. I also find FC brass to always be shorter than all other brass. When I resized(before going to the X die) I would typically pick up .007-.008 of stretch after resized. If you don't check case length and trim when required. It won't take long before you get cases that are longer than are safe.
You are on the right track with case prep....What pills are you shooting and what is your AR twist.
You should be able to tailor a load if it was shooting moa with factory.
eguns and m4fun- I am now in my second reloading of my X die resized brass. I have a couple thousand x-sized pieces. I resized 200 pieces of mixed brass last night. This will be the 3rd reload. They all measured exactly the same, within .001-.002 of the length they were when they were trimmed and x die resized. So far so good. I have not had the necks increase in thickness as of yet. I'll keep you posted.
HelloLarry
01-23-10, 17:35
How many times have you fired this brass?
It may be time to anneal it as well. I like to anneal after the 4th firing.
I'm tagging this too.
I use an X-die and have not noticed any problems, but I doubt I've done enough with it. The case length does not grow, as advertised. Accuracy has been sub MOA (@100 yards) in some of my guns. I can't comment on brass life as I haven't had the cases through the 'system' enough to have turned up problems.
I check all of my chambers with a Sinclair International chamber length gauge insert in a shortened case. All of the AR chambers I have measured (5) fell between 1.781" and 1.786". I usually measure each chamber a least twice to make sure the readings are about the same. This would mean to me that the max case length (1.760") gives quite a bit of room for growth before there is a possible pressure problem.
I'm certainly not a gunsmith so if I'm missing something please fill me in! I'm here to learn.
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