View Full Version : Favorite Antivirus and Firewall programs
Background: I've tried many over time: Norton, McAfee, Windows in a few forms, and most recently BitDefender. Of these, the clear best was BitDefender. A few days ago when, upon time to renew my subscription, I got the 2010 version... and BitDefender Antivirus 2010 sucks worse than any analogy I can think of. It sucks on my Dell laptop running XP, and it sucks on my dad's business laptop running Vista. It may provide the best protection in the world, but all facets of my computer have slowed down to the point that half of my time on the computer in the last several days has been waiting. Not cool. It's officially gone.
As an interim solution I downloaded COMODO antivirus and firewall (will probably just use the firewall) and Avira AntiVir. I've heard enough good about them that they'd work as short term fixes, especially being free.
What do you folks like for antivirus and firewall protection?
-B
\What do you folks like for antivirus and firewall protection?
The obvious (http://www.apple.com/mac/).
dmancornell
01-05-10, 01:30
All the software you mentioned (McAfee, Norton, BitDefender) are useless. Active scanning, or resident shield, or whatever each app calls it, they slow your computer to a crawl for no real gain at all.
Here's my setup: I run Firefox with NoScript to filter out untrusted scripts. On top of that I let Spybot S&D edit my hosts file to ignore known malware/spyware distributors. The downside is that it takes a while to set up NoScript to trust all the sites you regularly visit (banks, email, etc). On the other hand, my computers run squeaky clean and they are blazingly fast.
Install AVG free and run a weekly scan if you're paranoid. I do a scan whenever I feel like it, AVG always comes back clean.
Links for my suggested setup:
Firefox: http://www.mozilla.com/en-US/firefox/personal.html
NoScript: http://noscript.net/
Spybot: http://www.safer-networking.org/index2.html - do *NOT* install the TeaTimer "system protection" tool
Somewhat off-topic, but make sure you are behind a router even if you only have a single computer. Software firewalls such as Windows firewall are a pain and suck up CPU cycles. Worst case scenario would be something like the Blaster worm sneaking its way into your open system.
NinjaMedic
01-05-10, 03:45
Just get a damn Mac already, theres an App for that.
http://www.microsoft.com/Security_Essentials/
Lightweight and developed by a company Microsoft bought out that was known for producing a good AV.
Macs, or other Linux based OSes, aren't for everyone. Macs because of a lack of software unless you're running BootCamp or similar, free Linux OSes due to the lack of hardware support (which has improved a lot, admittedly) and many similar software shortages as Macs. Although there is a ton of freeware to do what you want, even if it'll be less polished than commercial products.
Switching platforms requires a good look at your usage. I have a large library of software for Windows I'm not willing to part with, and though I've run dual boots in the past I've more or less decided they're not for me. Certainly not when I spend 90+% of my time booting into only one OS and neglect the other.
It should also be noted that unused RAM storage and CPU cycles are essentially wasted. Modern OSes are usually good at allocating resources efficiently when you want to do something new right now. A lot of people complain about "Oh noes Vista/7 uses so much memory!" when what it's doing is loading your most accessed stuff into memory to make things faster.
ESET NOD32
A big "+1"...
I've used their product on my XP laptop for 2-3 years now and have had zero issues. It is very affordable and easy to set up. Highly recommended...
The free Symantec Enpoint Protection FW/AV downloaded from AKO.
Works fine for what I need and it's free.
Macs, or other Linux based OSes, aren't for everyone. Macs because of a lack of software unless you're running BootCamp or similar, free Linux OSes due to the lack of hardware support (which has improved a lot, admittedly) and many similar software shortages as Macs. Although there is a ton of freeware to do what you want, even if it'll be less polished than commercial products.
Anyone with even a little experience using an Intel Mac in a business environment can tell you this is not true. With something like Parallels, you can run almost any Windows application on your Mac simultaneously and seamlessly with your Mac apps; no need to reboot. The only time you'd use Boot Camp is for running Windows applications that make hardware-specific calls to your video card (mostly 3D games or CAD).
For most people, the whole Parallels/Boot Camp thing is a crutch that Apple uses to ease folks into the idea of having a Mac. Many Mac users find after a short while that they're not really relying on any Win-specific applications. I haven't even loaded Parallels on my new MBP.
Littlelebowski
01-05-10, 07:36
Just use Virtualbox and skip the whole BootCamp/Parallels thing for free.
Microsoft Security Essentials is a free antivirus and antispyware app for Winders. I recommend it.
Robb Jensen
01-05-10, 07:41
I like using a router, Microsoft firewall, Avast anti-virus, SpywareBlaster and Ad-Aware spyware remover.
I like using a router, Microsoft firewall, Avast anti-virus, SpywareBlaster and Ad-Aware spyware remover.
Exactly my set up. D-Link router that interfaces my 5 home computers to the net and each other, and I use your same menu of free security tools. Only downside is that the Avast AV pops up a cute little buy me window with each log in :]
I also keep combofix on hand and each pc has GlaryUtilities in case things start to get out of hand.
The biggest cause of my problems is children clicking on things that they do not realize is going to allow malicious application instalation. Pain in the ass. My 14 year old tends to hunt warez crap and torrents, and he is likely my biggest offender.
Apple! iMAC or Mac book Pro... I run them at home and at my office, and I have yet to run into anything it cant do... Once you start to use them, you will never go back to the PC Windows world...
Littlelebowski
01-05-10, 08:38
Buy a Mac or build a Linux box. Run Windows in a VM. Snapshot the VM weekly or monthly and run Microsoft Security Essentials.
The excuse that "Linux/OS X doesn't have the programs I need" is getting weaker and weaker.
NinjaMedic
01-05-10, 08:52
There is precisely one program (and its proprietary motorola software) that I have to run on windows via Parallel. The lack of software is a fallacy, you can do anything on a mac that you would want to do on a PC usually faster and easier with a better product.
The obvious (http://www.apple.com/mac/).
Just because its based on BSD doesn't mean that its completely safe. Mac's can still get bugs, viruses, etc. If I currently owned one (a Mac that is, I have several linux boxes), I would still run something like ClamX (http://www.clamxav.com/) for protection, use a good browser, etc. Having a Mac doesn't mean you can run wild on the internet and not expect to pickup something nasty. Yes the OS does play a part but its more about the end user and how their actions and usage patterns can either keep them safe or get them into a lot of trouble and this applies to Windows and Mac equally.
OP if you want a Mac and like the interface go then go for it; they are great machines (although having some proprietary hardware irks me some as well as the price). However, if you like your Windows box then stick with that and don't buy into all the Apple elitist BS. Mac is not the magic wand to keeping you safe and I don't feel any less chic or cool because I run a pc. Then again I use my machines for real work and not just writing blogs in the park while I sip on my iced double mocha chai latte;)
With either run a small router like a Linksys or DLink and when you set it up make sure you change the password and setup encryption on the wireless (wpa2 keys preferably--a wep key can be cracked in like 10 minutes). Ideally you should change the default 192.168.1.1 network range that is used to one of the other non-routable address ranges, see here (http://www.jpsdomain.org/networking/nat.html).
As for Windows AV: AVG free anti-virus isn't bad; Norton/Symantec is probably the best virus protection but obviously costs; Trend is a little cheaper and I find does a good job. For a free system level firewall something like the Comodo (http://www.comodo.com/) offering isn't bad. Best thing you can do is don't open emails and links you don't recognize.
Computer Associates or AVG Pro
ESET NOD32
+1000000. Best one out there right now.
cannarella
01-05-10, 11:09
Pick your poison. After 10+ years administrating it in a corporate environment we have used CA, McAfee, Symantec, and TrendMicro, they all have a niche that sets them off from each other. They will only catch old previously identified threats as designed. In the corporate arena you get viruses and such from dumb users that click on the crap the pops up because their friend sent it to them or they think that spam from the guy in Nigeria is their lucky day. I just have Windows firewall turned on and run TrendMicro from work. I just try and avoid potential problem sites. just be smart when on line. In the end in the Windows OS you will eventually get hit. I will have to agree that MAC, Linux, ect don't get hit but it is because the reward is not as high for hackers since most dumb users out there use Windows. Low lying fruit. My $.02.
Anything from previous posts will work. AVG seems pretty popular with Spybot
rickrock305
01-05-10, 11:19
Mac's can still get bugs, viruses, etc.
they can, yes. but they don't. i don't know one Mac user who has ever gotten a virus, worm, or anything like it. hackers just don't write viruses for Macs.
Then again I use my machines for real work and not just writing blogs in the park while I sip on my iced double mocha chai latte;)
HA! Lets see your PC handle a 200+ track audio project, or video graphic rendering, or the myriad of other CPU heavy tasks that Macs handle every day. ;)
the old PC/Mac debate...never gets old :D
Littlelebowski
01-05-10, 11:51
Just because its based on BSD doesn't mean that its completely safe. Mac's can still get bugs, viruses, etc. If I currently owned one (a Mac that is, I have several linux boxes), I would still run something like ClamX (http://www.clamxav.com/) for protection, use a good browser, etc. Having a Mac doesn't mean you can run wild on the internet and not expect to pickup something nasty. Yes the OS does play a part but its more about the end user and how their actions and usage patterns can either keep them safe or get them into a lot of trouble and this applies to Windows and Mac equally.
OP if you want a Mac and like the interface go then go for it; they are great machines (although having some proprietary hardware irks me some as well as the price). However, if you like your Windows box then stick with that and don't buy into all the Apple elitist BS. Mac is not the magic wand to keeping you safe and I don't feel any less chic or cool because I run a pc. Then again I use my machines for real work and not just writing blogs in the park while I sip on my iced double mocha chai latte;)
Here we go again with another really stupid and lame attempt to hate on Macs and YES, it's uninformed as well! I mean, Todd doesn't even like " iced double mocha chai lattes" :D
Macs are POSIX compliant. Refresh my mind again about all of those viruses running around the POSIX world, please? Show me all of those malware outbreaks in the wild in Mac/POSIX land? The only malware for Macs are executables (usually shell scripts) disguised as something else. And you still have to execute them with root permissions so.....
And don't waive your IT professional credentials at me. I'm a Solaris guy. I see Macs in the DOD server rooms everyday. Don't tell me they're not being used in the real world.
The obvious (http://www.apple.com/mac/).
A change in hardware isn't really an option for me. Unless you want to buy it, that is. :D
I'll have a look at the ESET AV. So far COMODO has done fairly well, and the combo of it and the Avira AntiVir seems to work well. It was good timing getting an external HD for Christmas to back everything up on, so I'm a little more willing to try different bug protection programs than I was. (I am using a router, by the way, so that base is covered at least.)
-B
Anyone with even a little experience using an Intel Mac in a business environment can tell you this is not true. With something like Parallels, you can run almost any Windows application on your Mac simultaneously and seamlessly with your Mac apps; no need to reboot. The only time you'd use Boot Camp is for running Windows applications that make hardware-specific calls to your video card (mostly 3D games or CAD).
For most people, the whole Parallels/Boot Camp thing is a crutch that Apple uses to ease folks into the idea of having a Mac. Many Mac users find after a short while that they're not really relying on any Win-specific applications. I haven't even loaded Parallels on my new MBP.
I've never used a Mac in a business environment so I can't say anything about them there. I've used PCs and Linux boxes, though, and I will say it really annoys me that Windows doesn't have a native compiler that comes with the OS (though there are good IDEs available). I will further say I don't know if AutoCAD, SolidWorks, and the like even have Mac versions.
I do have a bunch of Windows specific software (I sure as Hell am not buying another copy of MATLAB, for instance), however, so my viewpoint is probably not one most end users share. Shit, I'm still using XP because the Vista beta did nothing for me. I hear a lot of good things about 7 though, pretty slick UI and both Vista and 7 are solid as far as reliability goes. I can't remember if Vista managed it, but 7 finally separated the video driver layer from the rest of the OS so if they go down they just get restarted and the system keeps humming along.
I'll also be one of the first to admit that a slick UI, tightly controlled hardware and software integration (which makes it odd Macs crash about as much as Vista/7 machines), or a "complete package" don't really mean much to me. I like to piece my own components together, it doesn't phase me if I accidentally nuke my OS HDD in a partitioning gone wrong, etc. Oddly I do like the complete package for my phone (iPhone).
I'm a person who had a subscription to MacAddict back in the day, and my uses of a computer more or less dictated I abandon the platform. Macs are nifty, and I wouldn't mind owning an Apple laptop, they're just not for me.
HA! Lets see your PC handle a 200+ track audio project, or video graphic rendering, or the myriad of other CPU heavy tasks that Macs handle every day. ;)
Gladly. I'm POSITIVE my desktop can handle it. I didn't use the my pc can do this/that/or the other that your mac can't argument...so you don't get to use the opposite. :) This was a security based discussion anyway
Here we go again with another really stupid and lame attempt to hate on Macs and YES, it's uninformed as well! I mean, Todd doesn't even like " iced double mocha chai lattes" :D
Excuse me but where exactly in my post did I hate on Mac's? I even said its a great machine. I'm just not drinking the cool aid that they are the greatest thing since sliced bread and that PC's are inherently dangerous, cumbersome and antiquated which is what most Mac users seem to imply or believe. And for the record, its the Mac side of the world that is constantly hating on PC's, not the other way around--hell, look at their advertisements. I run Linux/windows/whatever the situation dictates.
Macs are POSIX compliant. Refresh my mind again about all of those viruses running around the POSIX world, please? Show me all of those malware outbreaks in the wild in Mac/POSIX land? The only malware for Macs are executables (usually shell scripts) disguised as something else. And you still have to execute them with root permissions so.....
Malware for a Mac. Sure I'll get you one. You know if they weren't out there then nobody would be in anti-malware for Mac business now would they. Did I ever say there are fewer viruses for a PC than a Mac--no I didn't. I simply stated the idea that just because you run a Mac doesn't mean you are now in a virus free eutopia where you can romp around the interwebs carefree--which is what the other people suggesting "Just buy a Mac" are implying. Oh and most malware for pc's are also excutables disguised as something else that has to be user initiated. You act like my pc's going to get infected just because I turned it on without me clicking on or running anything.
And don't waive your IT professional credentials at me. I'm a Solaris guy. I see Macs in the DOD server rooms everyday. Don't tell me they're not being used in the real world.
Again re-read my post. Where exactly did I waive my IT professional credentials at you? You're the only one who flashed those here. Solaris guy? What do you want a pat on the back for not getting with the times. I guess next you'll tell me how excited you are about the new Sparc servers. So yes maybe I was a little harsh with the latte comment but seriously would you like to compare corporate usage %'s of pc's vs mac's (and not just in the DC but all workstations and servers).
Damn you Mac folks get defensive in a hurry -- inferiority complex:confused:;)
And I'm done. Its a debate that can't be won and the OP isn't switching hardware anyway. Sorry for the hijack.
Anyone here try these guys besides me..........daily updates to keep up with nasties!!!
http://www.malwarebytes.org/
:D:D:D
Von Rheydt
01-05-10, 14:42
AVG, its free.
ES/ET NOD32 for the win.
here's the thing about macs. there are two types of people that use Macs.
The first is people who cant be bothered to deal with PC's and all the crap that goes along with having 8 bajillion developers messing with their OS. so they go MAC where everything comes through Apple. They take what Apple gives them and they're happy.
The others are geeks who know what /usr/var/bin is and actually know why Sudo Sandwich (http://xkcd.org/149/) is funny. (if you don't know what that is, you're not one of them.)
I know many Jobsians devotees, and I've never met one that doesn't fall into one of those two groups. I even know a couple of them that have been compromised by Malware.
That said, you always have the choice of Linux. Personally I am of the Ubuntu persuasion and it runs wells even on older hardware. To make it run well it helps to know what a command prompt is for and how to use it-- but it's not required. Barring that, ES/ET is what I make people buy when they ask me.
The obvious (http://www.apple.com/mac/).
Apple is for hippies :D
I run Security Essentials and AVG on my machine for AV, back that up with some good cleaning habits (CCleaner, etc.) you'll be good to go.
The obvious (http://www.apple.com/mac/).
DAMN U!!!!! LOL
as soon as I saw the thread my first thought was... "Best AntiVirus? Mac OS-X..."
Anyone with even a little experience using an Intel Mac in a business environment can tell you this is not true. With something like Parallels, you can run almost any Windows application on your Mac simultaneously and seamlessly with your Mac apps; no need to reboot. The only time you'd use Boot Camp is for running Windows applications that make hardware-specific calls to your video card (mostly 3D games or CAD).
For most people, the whole Parallels/Boot Camp thing is a crutch that Apple uses to ease folks into the idea of having a Mac. Many Mac users find after a short while that they're not really relying on any Win-specific applications. I haven't even loaded Parallels on my new MBP.
For most... however as an Architect I run AutoCad, 3D Studio Max/Design, and REVIT. Having said that... they run just fine on my MacBook Pro and iMac using BootCamp and WinXP. LOL I will never use a windows based machine in my home ever again. There is no need for it. The Mac can do everything windows can and then sum. Plus, not having to update definitions for anti-virus upteen times a month is a HUGE bonus.
Just because its based on BSD doesn't mean that its completely safe. Mac's can still get bugs, viruses, etc. If I currently owned one (a Mac that is, I have several linux boxes), I would still run something like ClamX (http://www.clamxav.com/) for protection, use a good browser, etc. Having a Mac doesn't mean you can run wild on the internet and not expect to pickup something nasty. Yes the OS does play a part but its more about the end user and how their actions and usage patterns can either keep them safe or get them into a lot of trouble and this applies to Windows and Mac equally.
OP if you want a Mac and like the interface go then go for it; they are great machines (although having some proprietary hardware irks me some as well as the price). However, if you like your Windows box then stick with that and don't buy into all the Apple elitist BS. Mac is not the magic wand to keeping you safe and I don't feel any less chic or cool because I run a pc. Then again I use my machines for real work and not just writing blogs in the park while I sip on my iced double mocha chai latte;)
I use my Mac to render Architectural models all the time, I dont blog. But I love my Mochas and Lattes lol
they can, yes. but they don't. i don't know one Mac user who has ever gotten a virus, worm, or anything like it. hackers just don't write viruses for Macs.
HA! Lets see your PC handle a 200+ track audio project, or video graphic rendering, or the myriad of other CPU heavy tasks that Macs handle every day. ;)
the old PC/Mac debate...never gets old :D
As a Mac lover I do have to admit that today, a PC can do anything a Mac can do, except protect itself from viruses.
If you spec out a AlienWare machine to the nines you can get pretty much the same thing as a Mac Pro for roughly the same price. The problem will come with stability of the OS. When you start loading it with a lot of apps at the same time, that is when Mac OS-X will shine and Windows give you the blue screen of death and start dumping physical memory lol.
To the OP. Honestly, if you can, get a Mac. You will never go back. But if you can't I have always had good results with Norton. At work our IT guy has us using Symantec Endpoint Protection.
Just because its based on BSD doesn't mean that its completely safe. Mac's can still get bugs, viruses, etc. If I currently owned one (a Mac that is, I have several linux boxes), I would still run something like ClamX (http://www.clamxav.com/) for protection, use a good browser, etc. Having a Mac doesn't mean you can run wild on the internet and not expect to pickup something nasty. Yes the OS does play a part but its more about the end user and how their actions and usage patterns can either keep them safe or get them into a lot of trouble and this applies to Windows and Mac equally.
I run nothing on any of my Macs and have picked up nothing. The only real threat in the wild require you to purposefully click on something you know you shouldn't -- a pirated piece of software or something. They all require social engineering.
It is theoretically possible for someone to write some self transmitting virus or something but as far as anyone knows there are not any such Mac viruses out there in the wild that you get because you read some email or visit some website that in infected and you make no positive action yourself.
Windows 7 is also much better in this regard from what I understand. I have no personal experience with it.
OP if you want a Mac and like the interface go then go for it; they are great machines (although having some proprietary hardware irks me some as well as the price). However, if you like your Windows box then stick with that and don't buy into all the Apple elitist BS. Mac is not the magic wand to keeping you safe and I don't feel any less chic or cool because I run a pc. Then again I use my machines for real work and not just writing blogs in the park while I sip on my iced double mocha chai latte;)
the guts of a Mac use all industry standard parts. Maybe a few custom glue chips but the normal chipsets and all the feature chips are industry standard as are the disks, optical drives, etc. The video cards are Mac versions of industry cards so that they can work with EFI instead of BIOS.
The cases are "proprietary".
I don't know anyone who bought a Mac because it is cool. They bought it because it helps them get their work done better and faster and does not get in the way. The only people who think Apple is elitist are the ones on the outside looking in. Easier to label someone elitist than to have to admit you want one too ;)
Malware for a Mac. Sure I'll get you one. You know if they weren't out there then nobody would be in anti-malware for Mac business now would they. Did I ever say there are fewer viruses for a PC than a Mac--no I didn't. I simply stated the idea that just because you run a Mac doesn't mean you are now in a virus free eutopia where you can romp around the interwebs carefree--which is what the other people suggesting "Just buy a Mac" are implying. Oh and most malware for pc's are also excutables disguised as something else that has to be user initiated. You act like my pc's going to get infected just because I turned it on without me clicking on or running anything.
please do find one. Newer iterations of Windows are less prone as well but there are lots of malware for windows (at least XP and earlier) that merely reading an email or visiting a webpage would infect you and cause you to spread it on. MS has done a pretty good job to close those sorts of loopholes so Vista and W7 may be less prone or "immune" to that sort of thing. I don't know personally as I don't use that. But the whole windows sucks thing with viruses dates back to XP which was pretty open to being infected.
Btw, most people I know that run "Mac" based AV run it to help prevent the spread of Windows viruses to their friends. I don't know any serious user of the Mac who runs an AV on the Mac to prevent Mac viruses.
whiterabbit05
01-05-10, 16:38
I fix laptops at my job and we get Macs with viruses all the time. Nothing about it makes them immune, just ignored by hackers.
They just aren't as frequently infected as PCs because hackers don't give a rat's ass about your itunes.
Viruses are written mainly for PCs because that is what businesses use and they want to get their hands on confidential and sensitive information to make $$$.
I roll my eyes every time their PC has a problem and they run out to buy a Mac thinking it is the end all of laptops. Then they return cause their brand new MacBook Air's HD died and the Apple Store won't backup their data for them.
I've been running Kaspersky Internet Security and been happy with it.
-RD62
I fix laptops at my job and we get Macs with viruses all the time. Nothing about it makes them immune, just ignored by hackers.
They just aren't as frequently infected as PCs because hackers don't give a rat's ass about your itunes.
Viruses are written mainly for PCs because that is what businesses use and they want to get their hands on confidential and sensitive information to make $$$.
I roll my eyes every time their PC has a problem and they run out to buy a Mac thinking it is the end all of laptops. Then they return cause their brand new MacBook Air's HD died and the Apple Store won't backup their data for them.
List the viruses you find on Macs (running OS X). Please. The ones you get all the time.
For most... however as an Architect I run AutoCad, 3D Studio Max/Design, and REVIT. Having said that... they run just fine on my MacBook Pro and iMac using BootCamp and WinXP. LOL I will never use a windows based machine in my home ever again. There is no need for it. The Mac can do everything windows can and then sum. Plus, not having to update definitions for anti-virus upteen times a month is a HUGE bonus.
Great, now you speak up. I have been trying for a while to find any one who used AutoCAD on a Mac and couldnt find anyone. I wanted to find out their perspective when I was upgrading. So lacking any data I stuck with what I knew and bought an HP the other month. Oh well I'll keep you in mind when I upgrade in two years..
I use a Linkys router with Norton Net Security AV/Firewall and a new one called Prevx (see here: http://www.prevx.com/). Prevx works with other AV software.
I ran Eset NOD32 for years and was happy with it but I want an easy to configure firewall to block apps that continually want to talk to their mother ship. Norton's firewall has been better than Eset for me.
If anyone has experience with Prevx I'd like to hear about it.
Apple is for hippies :D
Whoa, dude. People have been challenged to duels for less...
As someone who was using DOS before it split between PC-DOS and MS-DOS, used Windows since 3.10, even had a little op-ed published in Byte about my love for OS/2... OS X has basically completely eliminated my need to muck about with the operating system. No anti-virus, anti-malware, anti-spyware needed to slow down the system and create conflicts.
There's simply nothing I need to do with a computer that can't be accomplished more easily and with fewer problems in a Mac environment compared to a PC environment.
If someone needs some capability that isn't available for the Mac -- like running a particular software package -- then obviously don't get a Mac.
You just won't be cool. :cool:
http://9x19mm.com/photoalbum/albums/userpics/mac-users.jpg
whiterabbit05
01-06-10, 12:38
List the viruses you find on Macs (running OS X). Please. The ones you get all the time.
Off the top of my head:
OSX/Tored-A
OSX/Jahlav-C
OSX.RSPlug.A
DNSChanger
Asthtv05
You're welcome.
P.S. Limewire is the devil.
What did you go find a list of supposed mac viruses on a website and copy the liost?
Off the top of my head:
OSX/Tored-A
According to several security sites this one is a proof of concept and is not out in the wild and has bugs in it that prevent it from replicating. Not only that, it requires you to manually open a disk image and manually install/run it.
FAIL
OSX/Jahlav-C
A little bit better here. This one requires you to install a fake video component offered to you by a porn site. Requires social engineering to get you to manually install it...
Mostly FAIL.
OSX.RSPlug.A
See the above OSX/Jahlav-C. It is the same type of thing -- porn site tells you you must install a new video codec. Again social engineering that you must actually choose to accept and do manually.
Mostly FAIL.
DNSChanger
See above. A variant of the above that requires you to manually install it after falling for social engineering.
Asthtv05
again, requires you to manually run it after downloading it.
None of the above are serious threats unless you make a habit of cruising porn sites and installing random crap that these sites offer you, or are on file sharing servers and download random crap that you choose to manually install.
You're welcome.
P.S. Limewire is the devil.
And techincally I don't think the above are viruses but rather trojan horse applications. They do not infect you without your active participation.
Nothing in the above list makes me want to install AV or other crapware detectors
whiterabbit05
01-06-10, 13:31
None of the above are serious threats unless you make a habit of cruising porn sites and installing random crap that these sites offer you, or are on file sharing servers and download random crap that you choose to manually install.
And techincally I don't think the above are viruses but rather trojan horse applications. They do not infect you without your active participation.
Nothing in the above list makes me want to install AV or other crapware detectors
Most of the laptop problems I see, both PC and Mac, are because of the user participating in such activity, either browsing porn or downloading from Limewire. None of them will admit to it of course.
Most problems on both platforms can be avoided by being smart. However, the average user, the people hackers are targeting, will not heed to these simple warnings.
My point was that Macs are not invincible like many believe they are to be and as Apple claims them to be. I am positive I have already made that point clear.
Thank you for listening, I am done with this discussion.
My point was that Macs are not invincible like many believe they are to be and as Apple claims them to be. I am positive I have already made that point clear.
I don't think Apple has ever claimed that OS X will protect you even if you purposely download, install, and run an app that is malicious. Saying that OS X is vulnerable because of this is like saying a Mac notebook is vulnerable because it will break if dropped from a helicopter.
Pretending this is anything like the actual out of control viruses that infect PCs in the wild is silly.
RogerinTPA
01-06-10, 13:52
I personally think that all Viruses, Trojans, worms and the like, are spawned by either:
A. Program Geeks, developing them to get hired by Anti-Virus and Software companies.
B. R & D departments, withing the Anti-Virus companies themselves.
It's all a conspiracy of bull shit (the 2000 computer scare, Crop Circles, 2012) designed to soak the Tech folks. I bet they're all Amish folks who don't rely on technology.:p
I don't think Apple has ever claimed that OS X will protect you even if you purposely download, install, and run an app that is malicious. Saying that OS X is vulnerable because of this is like saying a Mac notebook is vulnerable because it will break if dropped from a helicopter.
Pretending this is anything like the actual out of control viruses that infect PCs in the wild is silly.
+100
You cannot protect against people purposefully doing stupid and dangerous things.
My understanding is that W7 is much safer in this regard as the holes and settings that allowed auto infecting through various vectors like email and web sites have been mostly closed. Could be. But I don't worry about that sort of thing on my Mac. And I don't open and install random crap either.
Powder_Burn
01-06-10, 14:12
What do you folks like for anti-virus and firewall protection?
-B
I switched to Apple OSX 10.6 from WinXP Pro.
For my remaining PC's running WinXP/Vista, I run a Avast!, Comodo, and SpyBot together to defer the inevitable compromises that will occur. After building and managing PC's for over 20 years, I was a bit apprehensive to make the switch but am glad that I did. Now I have more free time for M4c.net!
In other news, here's a helpful Snow Leopard vs Win7 comparison chart I found on the net.
http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i99/Powder_Burn/Forum%20Posts/SnowLeopardVsWin7.jpg
Whoa, dude. People have been challenged to duels for less...
As someone who was using DOS before it split between PC-DOS and MS-DOS, used Windows since 3.10, even had a little op-ed published in Byte about my love for OS/2... OS X has basically completely eliminated my need to muck about with the operating system. No anti-virus, anti-malware, anti-spyware needed to slow down the system and create conflicts.
There's simply nothing I need to do with a computer that can't be accomplished more easily and with fewer problems in a Mac environment compared to a PC environment.
If someone needs some capability that isn't available for the Mac -- like running a particular software package -- then obviously don't get a Mac.
You just won't be cool. :cool:
http://9x19mm.com/photoalbum/albums/userpics/mac-users.jpg
Well I have all the capability I need...
Its called dual booting.
I can run Windows for games or whatever program I need... Then I boot up linux for security and hating on overpriced Apple products.
Hey have any of you guys that drank the Apple Juice experienced problems with your wifi support on your macs after upgrading to Snow Leopard?
My daughter (studying graphic design in school) upgraded a couple of nights ago, and since then her wifi won't connect. (I did have to admit to her (while pointing out what a perfect machine we were trying to fix) that if I were to go get a laptop for myself, I would have to give a Macbook serious consideration. When it's behaving, it's not a bad little machine, a bit pricey (we popped for the Pro for her (bribed her to get a minor in graphic design to supplement the degree in Photography, best $1200 I ever spent)).
I have been seeing some reports of issues up on bulletin boards, but if anybody can point me to a short cut to get this thing talking again, I would greatly appreciate it.
Hey have any of you guys that drank the Apple Juice experienced problems with your wifi support on your macs after upgrading to Snow Leopard?
My daughter (studying graphic design in school) upgraded a couple of nights ago, and since then her wifi won't connect. (I did have to admit to her (while pointing out what a perfect machine we were trying to fix) that if I were to go get a laptop for myself, I would have to give a Macbook serious consideration. When it's behaving, it's not a bad little machine, a bit pricey (we popped for the Pro for her (bribed her to get a minor in graphic design to supplement the degree in Photography, best $1200 I ever spent)).
I have been seeing some reports of issues up on bulletin boards, but if anybody can point me to a short cut to get this thing talking again, I would greatly appreciate it.
Have not had this problem after multiple upgrades to SL. However, if you want to contact me off forum I would be happy to try and help.
Thanks
Chad
Well I have all the capability I need...
Its called dual booting.
I can run Windows for games or whatever program I need... Then I boot up linux for security and hating on overpriced Apple products.
My Apple products are worth every cent I paid for them and more!
rickrock305
01-07-10, 16:40
I didn't use the my pc can do this/that/or the other that your mac can't argument...so you don't get to use the opposite. :) This was a security based discussion anyway
yea, you did...
Then again I use my machines for real work and not just writing blogs in the park while I sip on my iced double mocha chai latte;)
but anyway, i was just messing with you (hence the winking smily)
Damn you Mac folks get defensive in a hurry -- inferiority complex:confused:;)
Sure about that? Pot, meet kettle...
rickrock305
01-07-10, 16:41
here's the thing about macs. there are two types of people that use Macs.
The first is people who cant be bothered to deal with PC's and all the crap that goes along with having 8 bajillion developers messing with their OS. so they go MAC where everything comes through Apple. They take what Apple gives them and they're happy.
The others are geeks who know what /usr/var/bin is and actually know why Sudo Sandwich (http://xkcd.org/149/) is funny. (if you don't know what that is, you're not one of them.)
I know many Jobsians devotees, and I've never met one that doesn't fall into one of those two groups. I even know a couple of them that have been compromised by Malware.
There are plenty of geeks who run macs for audio, video, game development, graphic design, etc.
Everything does not come through Apple.
And there are plenty of geeks (myself included) that could build you a PC from scratch, yet still choose Mac.
dmancornell
01-07-10, 18:01
If you spec out a AlienWare machine to the nines you can get pretty much the same thing as a Mac Pro for roughly the same price.
Sorry not true. A Mac with matching hardware capability as a PC will cost more, unless you buy it through an overpriced boutique builder. Purely from a hardware point of view, that's what Apple is, a boutique builder.
Mac Pro's are also annoying restrictive in various hardware aspects. The main reason I have not picked up a Mac Pro is the video card situation. Overclocking is either impossible or ridiculously difficult. Some people argue about the quality of the chassis or ease of access, but that's a non-issue. Any good Lian Li or high-end Coolermaster case will match the Mac Pro.
In my "professional" opinion, PC's have the advantage in the hardware arena.
Sorry not true. A Mac with matching hardware capability as a PC will cost more, unless you buy it through an overpriced boutique builder. Purely from a hardware point of view, that's what Apple is, a boutique builder.
Mac Pro's are also annoying restrictive in various hardware aspects. The main reason I have not picked up a Mac Pro is the video card situation. Overclocking is either impossible or ridiculously difficult. Some people argue about the quality of the chassis or ease of access, but that's a non-issue. Any good Lian Li or high-end Coolermaster case will match the Mac Pro.
I have used both Lian Li and Coolermaster including high end ones. The Mac Pro is much easier to work and much more accessible. I have a Mac Pro as well.
An equivalent PC does cost the same -- meaning using the same Xeon processors etc.
And the memory upgrade on the Mac Pro is also much easier than most PC mainboards.
I have built a lot of PCs (for running as servers mostly). Apple HW is top notch and better than most PC you can buy.
Explain what you mean by "overclocking". (I know what overclocking is -- I want to know more detail about your beef)
Why would you want to overclock the video card? I know people do it but is it worth losing your warranty for a few percentage points of performance?
In my "professional" opinion, PC's have the advantage in the hardware arena.
ES/ET NOD32 for the win.
here's the thing about macs. there are two types of people that use Macs.
The first is people who cant be bothered to deal with PC's and all the crap that goes along with having 8 bajillion developers messing with their OS. so they go MAC where everything comes through Apple. They take what Apple gives them and they're happy.
The others are geeks who know what /usr/var/bin is and actually know why Sudo Sandwich (http://xkcd.org/149/) is funny. (if you don't know what that is, you're not one of them.)
I know many Jobsians devotees, and I've never met one that doesn't fall into one of those two groups. I even know a couple of them that have been compromised by Malware.
That said, you always have the choice of Linux. Personally I am of the Ubuntu persuasion and it runs wells even on older hardware. To make it run well it helps to know what a command prompt is for and how to use it-- but it's not required. Barring that, ES/ET is what I make people buy when they ask me.
+1 on all the above...
...and I do get the "Sudo Sandwich" - it is one of the funniest things I've seen in quite a while. Thanks for the laugh! :D
dmancornell
01-07-10, 18:42
I have used both Lian Li and Coolermaster including high end ones. The Mac Pro is much easier to work and much more accessible. I have a Mac Pro as well.
I have a CM Stacker 832 and that particular case is great. Specifically, I like the motherboard slideout tray. Mac Pro still has easier access to hard drives. CM allows more fan mounting options and has better air flow as a result. Other aspects, they're about the same.
An equivalent PC does cost the same -- meaning using the same Xeon processors etc.
Xeons are a waste of money for 99% of users. CPU RAS features are designed for systems with dozens of sockets and terabytes of RAM (for example, the upcoming Beckton chips). For single/dual socket home users and workstations, it is ridiculous. Xeons are statistically no more robust than their desktop counterparts. Both Xeon and desktop processors from Intel are guaranteed to run for 7 years at 110C (or something close).
When Apple forced the Xeon route, they inflated their prices. I think it's a prestige thing.
The Apple store also charges a premium last time I checked... equivalent items cost more there than on the open market.
And the memory upgrade on the Mac Pro is also much easier than most PC mainboards.
Hard to argue that point, but it takes me about 5 seconds to add a DIMM in my Coolermaster 832. Unless your wiring job is crap or you're using a small form factor motherboard, I don't see how this is an issue.
I have built a lot of PCs (for running as servers mostly). Apple HW is top notch and better than most PC you can buy.
Can you provide examples? There's plenty of crappy hardware on the market for the PC side. I have yet find a case where I cannot find a high quality PC option for the same price as the Apple option. Usually cheaper.
Explain what you mean by "overclocking". (I know what overclocking is -- I want to know more detail about your beef)
CPU overclocking. Cranking up the core ratio or bus clock for extra frequency. I run my Core i7 at 4ghz using those methods. That should be especially relevant to CAD/AV applications since they are CPU intensive.
Sure it breaks the warranty, but tell me, how many CPU's have you sent back because they died running normally using approved cooling, nominal voltages, etc? Early CPU deaths are extremely rare because of burn-in done at assembly. Unless corporate/government protocol demands no overclocking, it's stupid not to do it.
Why would you want to overclock the video card? I know people do it but is it worth losing your warranty for a few percentage points of performance?
My video card complaint was not about overclocking, it's about choices. Bad wording in my first post. As far as I know (and you can correct me if I am wrong), video card choices are severely limited on the Mac Pro. Apparently I can only use a small list of supported cards, and I cannot SLI/crossfire them.
I personally use Microsoft Security Essentials, Malwarebytes+MS Defender, and my own wits to keep viruses and spyware away from my machine. I build all my PCs and PCs for friends and family. I am in love with Windows 7 and it runs perfectly smooth.
Depends somewhat on whether enterprise or personal application, but at the moment, Malwarebytes is good for spyware, and Spyware Doctor with Anti-virus is good for AV and Malware. McAfee has had a lot of trouble lately cleaning the "Anti-Spyware 2009-2010" rogue, as well as some trojans and other malware. I have more faith in Symantec but it has always seemed to me to be a resource hog that puts its hooks everywhere into the system. AVG has historically been a good product, but have not used it recently
Rule #1 in safe computing is always install anything that looks suspicious.
#2 is never run an anti-virus program it's a waste of clock cycles and disk access at 3AM.
Those two should take care of most users security problems.
I have a CM Stacker 832 and that particular case is great. Specifically, I like the motherboard slideout tray. Mac Pro still has easier access to hard drives. CM allows more fan mounting options and has better air flow as a result. Other aspects, they're about the same.
I have not seen that one. I will see if I can find one to take a look at. I have never had an easier to service case myself than the Mac Pro one. Granted, I am not replacing the motherboard etc. I am messing with HD, RAM, and PCIe cards. Which is what most people are doing. I am comparing against ready built PCs. Home build guys (which I do for my servers in my hosting business and any PC I may want myself) can do stuff cheaper and have the pick of the best HW out there to choose from.
Xeons are a waste of money for 99% of users. CPU RAS features are designed for systems with dozens of sockets and terabytes of RAM (for example, the upcoming Beckton chips). For single/dual socket home users and workstations, it is ridiculous. Xeons are statistically no more robust than their desktop counterparts. Both Xeon and desktop processors from Intel are guaranteed to run for 7 years at 110C (or something close).
When Apple forced the Xeon route, they inflated their prices. I think it's a prestige thing.
I think that when they originally went the Xeon route, several years ago, it was because there were not comparable desktop chips and chipsets with ECC, best processor performance, and other things they wanted in their system (better sets of PCIe for example, as a guess as I do not know what the chipsets supported back then on PCIe, only that the Mac Pro had more faster slots than any MB I saw then). Now, with Core i7 (iN) processors etc, the "desktop" systems are comparable or beat the Xeon based systems.
I do think Apple needs to expand their line to including a son-of-Mac Pro using a smaller case and the core i7 line of processors for less money.
The Apple store also charges a premium last time I checked... equivalent items cost more there than on the open market.
The Apple store probably does charge a premium (ie, MSRP) on some upgrade items and things like that. No argument there. Though recently their RAM upgrade prices have been more inline with what you pay elsewhere plus labor to put it in -- not everyone feels comfortable doing so. I myself, like many others, just buy it from NewEgg or OWC or other place and do it ourselves.
Hard to argue that point, but it takes me about 5 seconds to add a DIMM in my Coolermaster 832. Unless your wiring job is crap or you're using a small form factor motherboard, I don't see how this is an issue.
The ergonomics and robustness of the Apple case means it will cost more. A Lian Li or other top end PC case is not cheap either.
Remember I am comparing prebuilt PCs to the Apple stuff. Most of the prebuilt stuff people compare with use piece of crap lowest bidder cases to drive their prices down.
Can you provide examples? There's plenty of crappy hardware on the market for the PC side. I have yet find a case where I cannot find a high quality PC option for the same price as the Apple option. Usually cheaper.
I have not done it that recently but everytime I go configure a PC (pre built) that matches a Mac Pro in terms of features (Xeon processors, etc) it has always come to be the same ballpark if not more expensive. Now with the Core i7 stuff out the desktop performance has gone way up for relatively inexpensive prices, but the HW is not the same HW so those comparisons are not fair.
It is not fair to compare home built ones where you have the pick of the HW since you are warrantying it yourself and do all the labor. A fair comparison is prebuilt PC to Mac
CPU overclocking. Cranking up the core ratio or bus clock for extra frequency. I run my Core i7 at 4ghz using those methods. That should be especially relevant to CAD/AV applications since they are CPU intensive.
ok, sorry for the misunderstanding. I understand CPU overclocking (If you look hard enough on the internet you will find my name associated with a SW hack that enabled a HW hack on a Mac LC 475 to work to overclock it)
The new Core iN line of processors is particularly overclocking friendly. I may actually build a Hackintosh one of these days, mostly as a learning experience, using one. Most people don't do this in the prebuilt market though.
Sure it breaks the warranty, but tell me, how many CPU's have you sent back because they died running normally using approved cooling, nominal voltages, etc? Early CPU deaths are extremely rare because of burn-in done at assembly. Unless corporate/government protocol demands no overclocking, it's stupid not to do it.
on the newest chips with an applicable mainboard it works and if you want to play around with it go ahead. The normal PC buyer does not care about that but I would probably do it too. No argument from me.
My video card complaint was not about overclocking, it's about choices. Bad wording in my first post. As far as I know (and you can correct me if I am wrong), video card choices are severely limited on the Mac Pro. Apparently I can only use a small list of supported cards, and I cannot SLI/crossfire them.
The cards that are Mac compliant is a smaller list than on the Windows side. Mainly because the Mac does not use BIOS but uses EFI only and most cards do not support that. The HW is the same and many PC cards work in Macs with small SW tweeks or configuration tweeks but usually you don't get any screen image until after the OS has booted. I am not that familiar with doing it as the Nvidia Quadro 5600 in my Mac Pro works fine for me as does the secondary ATI card I have. But the Hackintosh folks use all sorts of PC cards successfully with minor tweeks.
The video cards are the same HW, just a different ROM on them to support the "more advanced" Mac EFI system (some PCs have moved to EFI as well -- EFI is not an apple technology). Most people don't care about this either in the prebuilt arena. There are several cards from ATI and Nvidia that Apple puts in the machines and there are some 3rd party ones available for purchase separately. Some people also reflash PC cards with EFI/Mac compatible firmware.
The bottom line is that the average Mac prebuilt is better designed HW than the average prebuilt PC. When you get more comparable prebuilt PCs the cost is more inline with Apple pricing. Also, Apple pricing is not just the HW but also the SW / OS as well. Most PCs do not have Windows ultimate edition nor an iLife equivalent installed out of the box and that all equates into the price.
You CAN buy your own very well designed and built PC HW and build your own. And you can probably save a bunch doing it. I build my own PC based servers and desktops . Different market though.
dmancornell
01-08-10, 11:43
^
No argument on pre-built PC vs pre-built Apple. I deal solely with home-build PC's and my entire argument rests on the value/quality of a good home-build vs the Mac Pro. Dell et al can suck it.
Still have to disagree with Xeons. Apple switched with Woodcrest and at the time, the X48 motherboards were just as fully loaded as any Xeon counterpart. ECC is yet another useless feature for home/workstation and the FB-DIMM memory spewed heat like a hot iron. Conroe vs Woodcrest performance matches frequency exactly, since they have the same core silicon. Woodcrest did offer dual socket, and I'm convinced Apple was using dual socket and ECC as a way to differentiate themselves from the PC beige box builders. At a huge price premium of course.
^
No argument on pre-built PC vs pre-built Apple. I deal solely with home-build PC's and my entire argument rests on the value/quality of a good home-build vs the Mac Pro. Dell et al can suck it.
Still have to disagree with Xeons. Apple switched with Woodcrest and at the time, the X48 motherboards were just as fully loaded as any Xeon counterpart. ECC is yet another useless feature for home/workstation and the FB-DIMM memory spewed heat like a hot iron. Conroe vs Woodcrest performance matches frequency exactly, since they have the same core silicon. Woodcrest did offer dual socket, and I'm convinced Apple was using dual socket and ECC as a way to differentiate themselves from the PC beige box builders. At a huge price premium of course.
ECC is very important for everyone. They just don't know it. Besides the fact that ECC saved my bacon on my Mac Pro -- started getting memory errors but it kept on working fine until I had the time to take it in. You can get memory errors on any level of machine -- those strange random ones that happen due to a stray photon or whatever -- and it can corrupt your data without you knowing it. Do you want a memory error corrupting your accounting data?
They also wanted the dual socket as Mac OS X is very multi threaded (and more so now than ever) and it is a good way to get performance with a good OS. If your OS does not do so well in a multi process/multi threaded environment then you don't get the same benefit. Apple came out with 4 core x 2 processor machines (I am typing on one) and that gives a big boost to performance -- at least at the time they came out. Newer chips of course will outperform them.
I am not Apple so I cannot say with authority why they did it but it made sense to them and probably made more sense then than it does now given what the offerings were.
Remember that the Mac Pro is the flagship high end pro machine. ECC, multi CPU with lots of cores, multiple fast PCIe, lots of memory and HD capability, and easy to work on for the latté sipping crowd to be able to do themselves. High end features.
Since you home build, you can of course make whatever decisions you want and probably get more bang for the buck on the HW end. If you want to legally use Mac OS X however, and for most of us it is not the HW but the SW that matters, then you buy the Apple HW. You can make a Hackintosh though the legality of that is dubious. Not that Apple seems to care for the individual hobbyist -- they only get up tight it seems by the people who try and commercialize such.
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