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What is your turnaround time to complete an incoming transfer? I have continuously watched my incoming orders be dropped off (via UPS tracking) on a Mon. morning, and I don’t hear from my dealer until Wed. at the earliest, sometimes later. Where the F is the bottleneck in the process? I have watched other dealers put guns on the books in the time it takes me to fill out the forms. When I have said something before, they say its because they have such large shipments come in daily…I call BS. I mean even if, I could record at least 30 guns in an 8 hour shift. Just curious.
ETA - they are well staffed
freakshow10mm
01-05-10, 16:18
There's a lot more things going on that have priority over transfers, but to answer your question it depends.
I get the gun out of the box and inspect for damage. I make sure the gun is the gun the customer is expecting. Then I might head overt to get the log book and log it in. Couple minutes maybe. Then I have to set things aside, put the box somewhere, pack the gun back up. Get out the 4473, the state trigger lock form, find a pen. When I have time to perform the paperwork I will call the customer and let him know the gun has arrived and is ready.
Trouble these days is with the Internet ordering, instant tracking updates, instant email, everyone expects instant gratification. Sorry, but that's not how it works. Gun dealers are like cops. If you are in a rush, we take our time. The gun business is not a high speed low drag business. It's not good, it's not bad, it just is.
If you want NASCAR tire change quick service, shop around.
Your not helping my cause...but fair enough, patience is a virtue. It still sounds however like you complete it in a day though...
My dude got my lowers in and called me and left a messege at my work, when I scooted out of the office that afternoon he was ready and expecting me. Within a couple hours of the delivery to the shop I had them in my car going home. But... this is a busy dealer with 4 employees normally on staff during evenings and 2 during the day when it's slower. Maybe your not one the customers that stands and bullshits and and regularly stops by just to browse and BS? I try to stop once a week, often it ends with a couple of us in the basement testing silencers on .22 pistols or something goofy. Sometimes I get held till close and end up at the bar with them. Ya never know how a night at the gun shop is gonna go!
Go to your dealer when you see that your firearm has arrived. I know that the dealer has to log the weapon in but I figure the process will speed up if you are there in person. You can call this the squeaky wheel theory. The dealer will get tired of having you waiting around for your weapon and will takr care of you just to get you out of their presence.
Unless you get a box of 150 guns, it only takes seconds to log in. I call the moment I get it, then we make a time to meet for the transfer...
freakshow10mm
01-05-10, 18:55
Your not helping my cause...but fair enough, patience is a virtue. It still sounds however like you complete it in a day though...
Usually within a couple hours. When deliveries occur I'm usually loading ammo and I don't stop for anything so it gets left until I can get to it. I don't like keeping guns longer than I have to though, but I don't like to be pushed to work faster than I do.
Go to your dealer when you see that your firearm has arrived. I know that the dealer has to log the weapon in but I figure the process will speed up if you are there in person. You can call this the squeaky wheel theory. The dealer will get tired of having you waiting around for your weapon and will takr care of you just to get you out of their presence.
Or the dealer will make you wait longer for rushing him. Dealers have their own pace. Some fly balls out all day and some work at a steady slow pace.
shit what are you talking about? when I see the gun has been signed for from UPS I call and tell them I'm heading up there. I have never had my FFL tell me it's going to take a few days...if he did he better have a good reason. If not then I would go to another FFL, they're making 25-30 bucks for a few minutes work and they get to keep the box the gun came in. I know they reuse those boxes because my dealer initially asked if he would keep the box and I said no problem.
Use a little initiative and he doesn't like it go elsewhere., but explain to him that you're a hobbyist and are excited to pick up your gun. I always buy something when I come get a weapon even if it's just a box of ammo in the same caliber as the weapon. I don't let my FFL know that I have plenty of ammo at home and it helps them out as well.
A62Rambler
01-05-10, 23:01
When I get it in I call the customer and tell them it is in. I don't wait to log anything in unless... I'm in the middle of something else. Then the ATF says I have 24 hours to log it in. I remember how excited I was to get a gun and try to keep that in mind. Your dealer may have more going on than you realize. Then again he may just hate doing the paperwork. :D That's why we do it all on computer. It saves time and the ATF likes how easy it is to read. Got to keep big brother happy you know! :rolleyes:
Your not helping my cause...but fair enough, patience is a virtue. It still sounds however like you complete it in a day though...
You should pull a FFL and do better.
:D
freakshow10mm
01-06-10, 00:17
Then the ATF says I have 24 hours to log it in.
Seven days.
John_Wayne777
01-06-10, 07:22
What is your turnaround time to complete an incoming transfer? I have continuously watched my incoming orders be dropped off (via UPS tracking) on a Mon. morning, and I don’t hear from my dealer until Wed. at the earliest, sometimes later. Where the F is the bottleneck in the process?
Be thankful that your weapon arrived at the dealer. I do a lot of transfers and I've had to actually go through the process of figuring out that my local FFL sent somebody else's FFL to do the transfer. :rolleyes:
Robb Jensen
01-06-10, 07:28
Where I work if it's available to pick up the next business day. So if it were delivered yesterday it would be available at 10am today. My boss doesn't even begin to open boxes until late in the afternoon and into the night after we close. Occasionally we still get the over anxious customer who's tracked his package and shows up literally 5 min after it was delivered to pick it up.
90% of my biz is consgnment and I just don't d a ton of 4473's....those who do are friends, family or good customers. You are correct, it takes no time at all to complete the paperwork for one gun when it comes in. In defense of the larger guys, they have a lot more on their plate than a transfer. You may be better of with a gunsmith or lower volume dealer if waiting is an issue. Before I became an ffl, I was dabling in some collector winchesters and it was pretty important to me to receive right after it touched down for inspection windows and I was worried about them getting coon fingered.
There is a 7 days window for aquisitions if the gun comes from the mfg....otherwise it's 24 hours.
freakshow10mm
01-06-10, 10:18
There is a 7 days window for aquisitions if the gun comes from the mfg....otherwise it's 24 hours.
I don't think it matters whom it's acquired from. I looked in the statute and didn't see anything that separated the two.
I don't think it matters whom it's acquired from. I looked in the statute and didn't see anything that separated the two.
Just quoting what I remember from the BATFE / NSSF conference I went to...half the attendies said 1 day and the other half said 7 days when the poll was taken. I remember the atf rep quoting both and the 7 was tied to mfg's and large disty's too i think. Individuals and other ffl to ffl transfers were 24 hours.
I don't receive large qty's so I always get mine in the books the same day.
freakshow10mm
01-06-10, 11:25
I bet the agent couldn't reference a specific statute. There's a saying among FFLs. Ask 5 ATF agents the same question you will get 12 answers.
What is your turnaround time to complete an incoming transfer? I have continuously watched my incoming orders be dropped off (via UPS tracking) on a Mon. morning, and I don’t hear from my dealer until Wed. at the earliest, sometimes later. Where the F is the bottleneck in the process? I have watched other dealers put guns on the books in the time it takes me to fill out the forms. When I have said something before, they say its because they have such large shipments come in daily…I call BS. I mean even if, I could record at least 30 guns in an 8 hour shift. Just curious.
ETA - they are well staffed
I would say that one business day would be normal.
To be honest though, you should be glad that your local dealer is doing transfers at all.
C4
Update: They called last night and I picked up. Total 38.00. Time for recording gun, 12 minutes.
This has been helpful though because Ive decided to get my FFL license. Im going to turn the transfer process into Chick Fil-et. Same day pickup and cheaper fee. If anyone is interested in the process, I can document it since I know nothing about it and will start from ground up. I will sell nothing, and only receive to start off. Thanks for the comments.
Update: They called last night and I picked up. Total 38.00. Time for recording gun, 12 minutes.
This has been helpful though because Ive decided to get my FFL license. Im going to turn the transfer process into Chick Fil-et. Same day pickup and cheaper fee. If anyone is interested in the process, I can document it since I know nothing about it and will start from ground up. I will sell nothing, and only receive to start off. Thanks for the comments.
Good for you.
If you need any help with the application process shoot me a line. I've helped about two dozen people get their FFL in the last 10 years.
freakshow10mm
01-07-10, 11:38
Update: They called last night and I picked up. Total 38.00. Time for recording gun, 12 minutes.
This has been helpful though because Ive decided to get my FFL license. Im going to turn the transfer process into Chick Fil-et. Same day pickup and cheaper fee. If anyone is interested in the process, I can document it since I know nothing about it and will start from ground up. I will sell nothing, and only receive to start off. Thanks for the comments.
The transfer process is quite basic and I think we all know what's involved. Fill out the 4473, call in the check, finalize the form, pay for it. Long guns here take about 1-15 minutes and handguns maybe 20-25. It's not so much the time, it's the cost of operating a business for profit as well as the numerous things you don't see. Remember the dealer has to keep the 4473s on file for 20 years. That takes up space and costs money. Then there's utilities, labor, taxes, rent, licensing, insurance, office supplies, etc. Once you get your FFL and start doing this yourself, you will see things from the other side of the counter.
I assume you will use your ffl at a residence since you are not carrying inventory & 4473 transfers will not pay the rent.
ATF will require you to have a conditional use permit to run a biz from the residence. You may want to confirm this first before you move too far along. Some cities don't allow the biz of guns accept for commercial areas.
Update: They called last night and I picked up. Total 38.00. Time for recording gun, 12 minutes.
This has been helpful though because Ive decided to get my FFL license. Im going to turn the transfer process into Chick Fil-et. Same day pickup and cheaper fee. If anyone is interested in the process, I can document it since I know nothing about it and will start from ground up. I will sell nothing, and only receive to start off. Thanks for the comments.
Keep in mind that the ATF has been coming down pretty hard on home based FFL's. They also deny more home based FFL's than any other.
Also remember that you will have STRANGERS coming into your home (if you run the business out of there).
Check the zoning in your area. You might not be able to have a business or a "gun shop" in your location.
If you have a day job and there is no one at your home during the day, all guns come with a "signature required" for delivery. Not all dealer do this though so that means that the gun would just be sitting at your front door. This is a big no no and you will experience some serious fun with the ATF if a gun is stolen.
Just some food for thought...
C4
The transfer process is quite basic and I think we all know what's involved. Fill out the 4473, call in the check, finalize the form, pay for it. Long guns here take about 1-15 minutes and handguns maybe 20-25. It's not so much the time, it's the cost of operating a business for profit as well as the numerous things you don't see. Remember the dealer has to keep the 4473s on file for 20 years. That takes up space and costs money. Then there's utilities, labor, taxes, rent, licensing, insurance, office supplies, etc. Once you get your FFL and start doing this yourself, you will see things from the other side of the counter.
Right. Liability insurance (just for the property). Yikes batman this can get expensive.
Pretty soon, that $20 dollar transfer fee doesn't look like such a good idea. :D
C4
Keep in mind that the ATF has been coming down pretty hard on home based FFL's. They also deny more home based FFL's than any other.
Also remember that you will have STRANGERS coming into your home (if you run the business out of there).
Check the zoning in your area. You might not be able to have a business or a "gun shop" in your location.
If you have a day job and there is no one at your home during the day, all guns come with a "signature required" for delivery. Not all dealer do this though so that means that the gun would just be sitting at your front door. This is a big no no and you will experience some serious fun with the ATF if a gun is stolen.
Just some food for thought...
Thanks for the heads up All,
I actually was going to use an office for the receipt since its more secure and someone is present during business hours. Im not trying to reinvent the wheel or take business away from local storefronts, ill be happy if I just successfully transfer to family and friends. Easy there fellas.. I know you work hard.
C4
Thanks for the heads up All,
I actually was going to use an office for the receipt since its more secure and someone is present during business hours. Im not trying to reinvent the wheel or take business away from local storefronts, ill be happy if I just successfully transfer to family and friends. Easy there fellas.. I know you work hard. ;)
Thanks for the heads up All,
I actually was going to use an office for the receipt since its more secure and someone is present during business hours. Im not trying to reinvent the wheel or take business away from local storefronts, ill be happy if I just successfully transfer to family and friends. Easy there fellas.. I know you work hard. ;)
Do you own the office building?
The physical FFL address HAS to be where the guns are delivered. Meaning that if you run this business out of your home and the ATF uses that as the actual shipping address, you cannot have guns shipped to another address.
C4
I rent it. Its for a side company of mine and another guy. I was going to use it for all aspects of the FFL. Id prefer to keep my home out of it. Will this be ok, or is renting the space going to be an issue?
Thanks for data.
I rent it. Its for a side company of mine and another guy. I was going to use it for all aspects of the FFL. Id prefer to keep my home out of it. Will this be ok, or is renting the space going to be an issue?
Thanks for data.
That is better than you home for certain.
Renting is just fine.
C4
I rent it. Its for a side company of mine and another guy. I was going to use it for all aspects of the FFL. Id prefer to keep my home out of it. Will this be ok, or is renting the space going to be an issue?
Thanks for data.
I cannot recall if you will need permission from the owner to run a gun biz, the important thing is that it is zoned commercial. When you fill out the Form 7 with ATF you will need to get your code and zoning for a commercial firearms business from the county as well as occupational permits to be a firearms dealer from the city and/or county (sometimes both, sometimes just one) before your license can be issued.
Also with regard to "transfers to friends and family", that is one of the sorta trick questions on the application. If ATF deems this to be a "hobby FFL" they will DQ you pretty fast, this is the basis for most home based FFLs being denied/revoked.
You will either be running this as a "business for profit" or you won't be in business for long. Having a rented commercial premise is a good step in that direction. You also want to make sure that premise is for the gun business so if it looks like a place that does tax preparation rather than retail firearm sales you might have ATF question you about it.
Bottom line is if you treat this like an actual firearms business ATF will see it as an actual firearms business. If you treat this as a means to get "guns at cost" for yourself and beer money from your buddies, that is how ATF will see it.
I cannot recall if you will need permission from the owner to run a gun biz, the important thing is that it is zoned commercial. When you fill out the Form 7 with ATF you will need to get your code and zoning for a commercial firearms business from the county as well as occupational permits to be a firearms dealer from the city and/or county (sometimes both, sometimes just one) before your license can be issued.
Also with regard to "transfers to friends and family", that is one of the sorta trick questions on the application. If ATF deems this to be a "hobby FFL" they will DQ you pretty fast, this is the basis for most home based FFLs being denied/revoked.
You will either be running this as a "business for profit" or you won't be in business for long. Having a rented commercial premise is a good step in that direction. You also want to make sure that premise is for the gun business so if it looks like a place that does tax preparation rather than retail firearm sales you might have ATF question you about it.
Bottom line is if you treat this like an actual firearms business ATF will see it as an actual firearms business. If you treat this as a means to get "guns at cost" for yourself and beer money from your buddies, that is how ATF will see it.
I see. Thanks a lot for the information.
I see. Thanks a lot for the information.
Anytime. The good news is you are in TX which is a pretty gun friendly state so your local ATF office might not be terribly aggressive when it comes to FFL witch hunts. It really does vary from location to location and office to office. I have heard some horror stories from FFLs in CA and IL that would never happen in TX, FL or VA.
You also want to subscribe to American Firearms Industry magazine. It is a periodical dedicated to FFLs and the industry and has lots of good tips on correct book keeping, preparing for ATF compliance inspections and audits as well as what to do if you have guns stolen and things like that. A few "no problems" compliance inspections in a row will generally get you put on the ATF "not a problem" list.
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