View Full Version : Sea Shepherds new stealth boat hit by Jap whaler!
TOUCHDOWN!:D:D:D
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100106/ap_on_re_as/as_antarctica_whaling
VIDEO HERE http://news.yahoo.com/video/world-15749633/17481983
http://d.yimg.com/a/p/ap/20100106/capt.2117870dacd74441b1adfc50b996782b.antarctica_japan_whaling_tok811.jpg?x=213&y=138&xc=1&yc=1&wc=409&hc=265&q=85&sig=IOCuE7hXnpDyYv5SbZA0BA--
SYDNEY – A conservation group's boat had its bow sheared off and was taking on water Wednesday after it was struck by a Japanese whaling ship in the frigid waters off Antarctica, the group said.
The boat's six crew members were safely transferred to another of the Sea Shepherd Conservation Society's vessels, the newly commissioned Bob Barker. The boat is named for the American game show host who donated $5 million to buy it.
The clash was the most serious in the past several years, during which the Sea Shepherd has sent vessels into far-southern waters to try to harass the Japanese fleet into ceasing its annual whale hunt.
Clashes using hand-thrown stink bombs, ropes meant to tangle propellers and high-tech sound equipment have been common in recent years, and crashes between ships have sometimes occurred.
The society said its vessel Ady Gil — a high-tech speedboat that resembles a stealth bomber — was hit by the Japanese ship the Shonan Maru near Commonwealth Bay and had about 10 feet (three meters) of its bow knocked off.
Locky Maclean, the first mate of the society's lead ship, said one crewman from New Zealand appeared to have suffered two cracked ribs, but the others were uninjured. The crew members were safely transferred to the group's third vessel, though the Ady Gil's captain remained on board to see what could be salvaged, he said.
The group accused the Japanese ship of deliberately ramming the Ady Gil.
"They were stopped dead in the water when the incident occurred," Maclean told The Associated Press of the Ady Gil. He spoke by satellite phone from the ship, the Steve Irwin.
"When they realized that the Shonan Maru was aiming right for them, they tried to go into reverse to get the bow out of the way but it was too late. The Shonan Maru made a course correction and plowed directly into the front end of the boat," he said.
Glenn Inwood, a New Zealand-based spokesman for the Institute of Cetacean Research, the Japanese government-linked body that carries out the hunt, disputed Sea Shepherd's account, saying video shot from the whaler showed the conservationists' boat moving toward the whaler just before the collision.
"The Shonan Maru steams to port to avoid a collision. I guess they, the Ady Gil, miscalculated," Inwood told The Associated Press. "Sea Shepherd claims that the Shonan Maru has rammed the Ady Gil and cut it in half — its claim is just not vindicated by the video."
Japan's Fisheries Agency said it was still checking details about the clash. Spokesman Toshinori Uoya said there were no injuries on the Japanese side.
It was not immediately clear what would happen to the Ady Gil. Sea Shepherd said in a statement posted on its Web site that the boat was "believed to be sinking and chances of salvage are very grim."
Sea Shepherd sends boats to Antarctic waters each southern summer to try to stop the Japanese whaling fleet from killing whales under what it calls a scientific whaling program. Conservationists and many countries say the program is a front for commercial whaling.
Each side routinely accuses the other of dangerous activity during what has become a cat-and-mouse chase in one of the world's most remote regions.
Australia and New Zealand — which both have Antarctic territories and are among the closest nations to the waters where the hunt goes on — have urged both sides to show restraint, warning that they are far away from rescue if anything goes wrong.
"Our strongest condemnation applies to any violent or dangerous activity that takes place in these remote and inhospitable waters," Australian Environment Minister Peter Garrett said Wednesday. He said he could confirm the collision, but that details were still unclear.
Wednesday's confrontation with whalers marked the first for the 1,200-ton Bob Barker, which rescued the crew. Sea Shepherd only recently bought the ship after its namesake, the former host of the "The Price Is Right" game show and a longtime animal rights activist, donated the money. Barker met Sea Shepherd founder Paul Watson through a fellow activist and said he was instantly impressed.
"He said he thought he could put the Japanese whaling fleet out of business if he had $5 million," Barker recalled. "I said, 'I think you do have the skills to do that, and I have $5 million, so let's get it on,' so that's what we did."
Barker, 86, said he was "genuinely proud" to be associated with Sea Shepherd.
The Ady Gil, meanwhile, clashed earlier Wednesday with another Japanese ship, the whaling fleet's mothership, the Nisshin Maru.
The Institute of Cetacean Research said the Ady Gil came "within collision distance" of the Nisshin Maru's bow and repeatedly dangled a rope in the water that could have entangled the ship's rudder and propeller.
The Ady Gil's crew lobbed small projectiles designed to release a foul smell, and the whalers responded by firing high-powered hoses to keep the Sea Shepherd vessels away, the institute said in a statement.
"The obstructionist activities of the Sea Shepherd threaten the lives and property of those involved in our research, are very dangerous and cannot be forgiven," it said.
Maclean confirmed the earlier clash.
Japan's whaling fleet left in November for its annual hunt in Antarctic waters. Uoya said that for security reasons, details of the fleet's composition, the number of whales it hopes to take and the number of crew members are not being released to the public.
The Ady Gil is a 78-foot (24-meter) black-painted trimaran made of carbon fiber and Kevlar in a design meant to pierce waves. It was built to challenge the record for the quickest circumnavigation of the globe and can travel faster than 46 mph (75 kph).
Sea Shepherd unveiled the Ady Gil last October saying a California millionaire with the same name had donated most of the money for it. At the time, the group said the boat would be used to intercept and physically block Japanese harpoon vessels.
I hate this Paul Watson guy more and more:mad: F***ING LIAR:mad: Claims that the Shonan Maru aimed towards the crew quarters of the Ady Gil and that the Ady Gil Captain tried to go into reverse... and that the Ady Gil wascut in half .. To me it looks like the Ady Gil is underway just before the crash, and I'd say that THEY caused it.
Personally I enjoyed that video. Glad that nobody was seriously hurt.
Thomas M-4
01-06-10, 12:31
Sounds like I song :D The bat boat got ran over buy a whaler on a cold x-mas day:D:D:D
geminidglocker
01-06-10, 12:37
Fianaly, those stupid hippies got what they asked for. This made my day almost as much as the 14 Terrorists that blew themselves up.:D
http://www.forumammo.com/cpg/albums/userpics/10063/normal_nelson_haha.jpg
Too bad the crew didn't go down with the ship
Nothing like Karma to wrap you in her warm embrace while your nearly $2m boat sits there all f'd up. The Japanese should be arming their fricking crews.
I've spent considerable time on the ocean and will say first hand, that anyone in a small manueverable craft had simply better steer clear of a large ship as the larger vessels simply do not change course that easily. It's simply a matter of physics, ie mass vs inertia. Those guys in the cat knew exactly what they were up against and it appears they deliberately brought this on themselves. Over riding rule of the sea.....big boat has right of way!! The only sympathy they get from me is for their total stupidity.
I thought the Sea Sherherds RHIB would get sunk first. Should be good to watch.:D
That my friends is KARMA coming on home
Apparently, the stealth mode worked too well.
CarlosDJackal
01-06-10, 13:39
Apparently, the stealth mode worked too well.
ROFLMAO!! :D
While I am pretty much against the whaling efforts of the Japanese, I do not condone or support the way that these pirates are conducting themselves.
Maybe eco-terrorists should stick to land based obsessions, i.e. trees, hoot owls shit like that cuz their boating skills seem somewhat lacking.
What ,the ship didn't have air brakes? Couldn't stop on a dime?
Reminds me of those who try to beat the train.
Fkng idiots,finally karma gets them. Hope that the Whalers make sure the Sheperds insurance gets the video. Oppps Bob Barker's 5 million down the drain. ;)
John_Wayne777
01-06-10, 14:42
Huh...so the sea equivalent of trying to block a fully loaded semi with a mini-cooper didn't work out so good.
Imagine that.
Edit -- I wonder if the captain actually got to turn to the FO and say "Ramming speed, Mr. [Insert Japanese name here]!!" I bet there are a lot of boat captains that have secretly longed to say those words.
ForTehNguyen
01-06-10, 15:03
if you watch the video on youtube. Right before it gets hit, you can see a sudden buildup of wake behind the speedboat like it accelerated into the vessel :rolleyes:
spamsammich
01-06-10, 15:09
if you watch the video on youtube. Right before it gets hit, you can see a sudden buildup of wake behind the speedboat like it accelerated into the vessel :rolleyes:
It looks more like what happens when you slam a boat into full reverse trying to avoid a collision, too little too late dirty hippies!
SinnFéinM1911
01-06-10, 15:20
ROFLMAO!! :D
While I am pretty much against the whaling efforts of the Japanese, I do not condone or support the way that these pirates are conducting themselves.
Yea, I think they are all a bunch of Shit heads! The Shark finner's are a bunch of **** heads too!
For people who think its funny (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1b8YCxJiIc&feature=related)
woodandsteel
01-06-10, 15:21
I find the "capatain" of that boat to be very annoying. He complains at being "attacked" by the whalers after he attacks them.:rolleyes:
I wish he would have been in the bat boat when it hit the whaling vessel.
There is no way to argue convincingly that that big Japanese ship chased down the speedboat. If you don't want to get run over, don't cruise along side. And the speedboat was pointing at the ship the whole time, so how is that the ship's fault.
On the other hand, isn't there some maritime code of conduct that says you have to lend aid to a ship in distress? If one of the Sea Shepherd crew had drowned as a result of the collision and the Japanese ship had done nothing to help, I think they would have been in legal jeapardy. Or maybe not.
QuickStrike
01-06-10, 15:37
Made my day when I heard it on the radio driving home... :D
FromMyColdDeadHand
01-06-10, 15:50
It is like a motorcycle running into the side of a semi truck. Granted from the video it is hard to tell if the Maru is turning, but when the damage is on the side of one ship, and on the bow of the other, how can it be anyones fault than the bow damamged ship?
Plus he says the captain of the smaller ship was Peter Dumbass or something. Is he the dumbass from previous shows?
We know that fat Walrus has an issue with reality and has hit other ships on purpose. Sorry your Bat boat got bonked.
Can't wait to see them whine about this one.
**** Video from ahead of Japanese ship (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Brw6JN0lQXY) it does look like the Japanesse were guning for the hippies, though that is some pretty bad captaining to be put in that position.
Only these chuckleheads could make me sympathize with the finners and whalers. I'm starting to think the baby seals have it coming somehow.
South Park genius http://www.southparkstudios.com/episodes/251888
Collisions are always the smaller crafts fault. Period. They put themselves in that position by getting that close to large vessel under power. **** em.
CarlosDJackal
01-06-10, 15:59
Yea, I think they are all a bunch of Shit heads! The Shark finner's are a bunch of **** heads too!
For people who think its funny (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1b8YCxJiIc&feature=related)
Brett, I'm with you there. I was just trying to be polite (and it took a lot out of me too). :p
Apparently deploying the Bat-cable at sea doesn't work. :rolleyes:
Edit -- I wonder if the captain actually got to turn to the FO and say "Ramming speed, Mr. [Insert Japanese name here]!!" I bet there are a lot of boat captains that have secretly longed to say those words.
HAHAHAHAHA
That made my day!
FWIW, it was Bob Barker, late of The Price is Right, that bankrolled both the speedboat and their new ship, the Bob BArker.
I'd love to see these Japanese hire that Israeli security company that's shooting pirates that attempt to board ships in the Gulf of Aden. This is right up their alley. Visualize the squealling from that fat **** when he gets several Mk 19 rounds into the hull of the Steve Irwin.
These assclowns need to be taken into custody the very next time they make berth in the US and tried for piracy.
The Dumb Gun Collector
01-06-10, 22:12
LOL. What a bunch of goofs. Why on earth would they need a stealth boat?
It helped them sneak right up on those whalers now, didn't it?
On a more serious note; why the seemingly sudden outcry against whalers? What is this, Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home?
Collisions are always the smaller crafts fault. Period. They put themselves in that position by getting that close to large vessel under power. **** em.
My thoughts exactly. It is not as though large vessels are real quick or maneuverable.
ohiorifleman
01-06-10, 22:20
Fianaly, those stupid hippies got what they asked for. This made my day almost as much as the 14 Terrorists that blew themselves up.:D
This and Chris Dodd giving it up - GOOD DAY:D
This is fricken hillarious!
On a more serious note; why the seemingly sudden outcry against whalers? What is this, Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home?
This is interesting but I think most are really against their terrorist tactics, self-righteous, we know better than you, elitest attitudes. I certainly am no whaling fan and would love to see it outlawed, but not how these hippies do it.
Thomas M-4
01-06-10, 22:33
LOL. What a bunch of goofs. Why on earth would they need a stealth boat?
Because they are a bunch stupid stoner hippies that Bob Barker gave money to and they don't know there a$$ from a hole in the ground.
Side note: The new ship Bob Barker is an EX whaling ship and I think its Ice rated :mad: Dang it now they got a ship that can go through the Ice fields :rolleyes: I was so wanting to see the Steve Irwin to sink:p
I'm surpised they all haven't been killed. They aren't afraid to send people out that have no idea what they are doing. I know these people are all volunteer, but you need to train them to do a job.
They are a bunch of assclowns
Good intentions but a bunch of morons doing it. Japan is overfishing the ocean and destroying the environment in the process and there needs to be someone with brains trying to stop it and not these idiots. And it's obvious that the fishers did it intentionally.
FromMyColdDeadHand
01-06-10, 23:32
Dang it now they got a ship that can go through the Ice fields :rolleyes: I was so wanting to see the Steve Irwin to sink:p
I so wanted to see them haul some Hippie-cicles out of the ocean.
I'm surpised they all haven't been killed. They aren't afraid to send people out that have no idea what they are doing. I know these people are all volunteer, but you need to train them to do a job.
They are a bunch of assclowns
That is offensive to assclowns.
Thomas M-4
01-07-10, 00:26
There is another video posted on the sea sheperds web site of the bat boat being run over :eek:
http://www.seashepherd.org/matilda/video.html
FromMyColdDeadHand
01-07-10, 01:06
There is another video posted on the sea sheperds web site of the bat boat being run over :eek:
http://www.seashepherd.org/matilda/video.html
It says they have saved 305 whales at the bottom of the page? Doesn't seem like they have done much except make me want to eat a whale burger.
The sea shepherds aren't going to be happy until they get a couple of their folks killed pulling a stunt like that. They are looking for martrys as much as they are trying to save the whales. It's more about competitions of philosophy than anything.
It's research/food.
It's an intelligent being and should be spared.
They are freaking minke whales for crying out loud. There's a bunch of them down here. Go save the elephants, they are way cooler and less populous.
I'll bite on posting my opinion. I'm from Iceland, and yes, Iceland is one of the more pro-whaling countries in the world. I have eaten whale meat many times before back home and I love it.
I'd be all for hunting whales and for that matter any animal that is killed for the purpose of providing food to those who need it BUT, sadly, us humans have demonstrated time and time again that we have a very hard time controlling things like whale hunting. If we could maintain the species out of extinction with controlled hunting, and if needed, set strict bans and take measures to improve populations of species that are endangered/becoming endangered. Its a tough balance to follow, and we usually never get it right.
FromMyColdDeadHand
01-07-10, 03:32
I would like to point out that "Jap Whaler" is a derogatory term. As I have learned from my four year olds pre-school class that sitting "Indian style" is not respectful and acceptable anymore. We can no longer use disrepectful racial terms such as these. So we all have to sit "native american" style and please change the title to "Nip Whaler" or "Slant-eye whaler".
:p
variablebinary
01-07-10, 04:17
"F*** YOU WHALE. F*** YOU DOLPHIN!"
http://bulk.destructoid.com/ul/user/4/4536-153534-SouthParkDolphinSlaughterjpg-620x.jpg
That will teach them not to bomb Japan
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/35/South_Park's_Enola_Gay.jpg
Alpha Sierra
01-07-10, 05:05
Yea, I think they are all a bunch of Shit heads! The Shark finner's are a bunch of **** heads too!
For people who think its funny (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1b8YCxJiIc&feature=related)
So a whale got whacked. BFD.........:rolleyes:
So long as the Japanese do it within the limits of any treaties they have signed, no one has the right to interfere.
BTW, FAR different to kill and animal, recover it, and use all of it than mutilating one and tossing it back into the sea to die.
For the life of me I do not understand why the JMSDF does not have one of its submarines or destroyers escort their whalers and shoot to kill anyone who interferes.
Alpha Sierra
01-07-10, 05:08
Japan is overfishing the ocean and destroying the environment in the process.
Offer proof, please
And it's obvious that the fishers did it intentionally.
Claim not supported by evidence.
John_Wayne777
01-07-10, 08:33
Our stealth-boat got run over by some whalers...
While we were trying to save whales from the Japanese...
You can say there's no such thing as Karma...
But as for me and Capt. Beardface we believe.
We'd been too close to the whalers
Throwing ropes into their prop
We steered to block them from the hunt now
...but those kamikaze bastards wouldn't stop
Our stealth-boat got run over by some whalers...
While we were trying to save whales from the Japanese...
You can say there's no such thing as Karma...
But as for me and Capt. Beardface we believe.
Are you guys for real? You are defending the Japs on this one? I can't believe it!
...
I hear they can decaffeinate coffee now, maybe you should try some?
Our stealth-boat got run over by some whalers...
While we were trying to save whales from the Japanese...
You can say there's no such thing as Karma...
But as for me and Capt. Beardface we believe.
We'd been too close to the whalers
Throwing ropes into their prop
We steered to block them from the hunt now
...but those kamikaze bastards wouldn't stop
Our stealth-boat got run over by some whalers...
While we were trying to save whales from the Japanese...
You can say there's no such thing as Karma...
But as for me and Capt. Beardface we believe.
:D That was funny.
John_Wayne777
01-07-10, 08:58
Sorry to get all pissed off, but these whaling fleets really grind my gears, and to see you guys defend them seems unthinkable to me.
What I find "unthinkable" is that you actually thought it appropriate to show up in this thread and actually state your desire to "hunt" Japanese people.
For the record: That's unacceptable conduct on M4C.
FromMyColdDeadHand
01-07-10, 09:29
AlexV,
I think your missing post is missing the point. I don't think there were any pro-whaling people here until they watched the ass-hat hippies piss us off with shody chain-of-command, whiney bitches, self-serving compassion, and 3rd grade playground tactics.
I started watching the show looking for another Midway or Marianas Turkey Shoot and all I got were jack-ass 60s retreads too retarded for Greenpeace.
These people have set back their cause with their infuriating behavior.
Funny, I hate these whale war ****ers.
Ive driven big ships before and it looks like, from my experience, that they were both playing chicken or trying to crowd eachother off course. Well nobody flinched and this is what happens.
I hear they can decaffeinate coffee now, maybe you should try some?
:D That was funny.
Don't drink coffee, thanks ;)
What I find "unthinkable" is that you actually thought it appropriate to show up in this thread and actually state your desire to "hunt" Japanese people.
For the record: That's unacceptable conduct on M4C.
I apologize for the comments, but they were meant as a satire.
AlexV,
I think your missing post is missing the point. I don't think there were any pro-whaling people here until they watched the ass-hat hippies piss us off with shody chain-of-command, whiney bitches, self-serving compassion, and 3rd grade playground tactics.
I started watching the show looking for another Midway or Marianas Turkey Shoot and all I got were jack-ass 60s retreads too retarded for Greenpeace.
These people have set back their cause with their infuriating behavior.
I don't think Im missing the point one bit. People came on and defended the action of the Japanese just because the guys from the Sea Shepherd are ass hats. Two wrongs do not make a right.
I think someone should protest the Japanese using a loop hole in a Anti-Whaling Treaty to activly hunt whales. Maybe these guys can not do it right, but they are doing more that just say "I dont like whaling"
people were saying how the Japanese should arm themselves against the "hippies" and have the Japanese Navy escort them to fight off the Sea Shepherds... That would be like having the the US Army Rangers protect me while I go club baby Seals.
Just because the Sea Shepherds look like they are chickens with their heads cut off, does not mean the are not doing the right thing. In my opinion, they are.
What is wrong with hunting a non threatened very multitudinous ;-) whale species in small numbers? Who are YOU to get your panties all in a twist about it? Get off your high horse.
We westerners (western culture, not western US) hunt deer and elk every year and no one serious gives a flying cr*p. Why can't they hunt small numbers of a whale species which is in much abundance?
This has nothing to do with me being peeved by a bunch of hippie eco-terrorists...
Chad
ps: And BTW, loopholes are meant to be exploited and by definition legal.
I ,m with ALEX V on this--
I don't think Im missing the point one bit. People came on and defended the action of the Japanese just because the guys from the Sea Shepherd are ass hats. Two wrongs do not make a right.
I think someone should protest the Japanese using a loop hole in a Anti-Whaling Treaty to activly hunt whales. Maybe these guys can not do it right, but they are doing more that just say "I dont like whaling"
people were saying how the Japanese should arm themselves against the "hippies" and have the Japanese Navy escort them to fight off the Sea Shepherds... That would be like having the the US Army Rangers protect me while I go club baby Seals.
Just because the Sea Shepherds look like they are chickens with their heads cut off, does not mean the are not doing the right thing. In my opinion, they are.
There are two completely separate issues here.
Eco-terrorists who got their butts handed to them.
Corporation engaging in activity that some believe is environmentally unsound.
All I know about #2 is what I've heard from the mainstream media, which is to say, nothing reliable.
But even if the Japanese whaling ships are raping the sea and bringing the end to the planet in the 23rd century, I can still enjoy watching a bunch of holier-than-thou eco-terrorists getting drowned in their own stupidity.
It's wrong for me to speed on the highway, but if some self-appointed "civilian hero" tries to ram me off the road for it, he's getting hurt.
so being that Japan Has been eating whale meat MMMMMM:confused: forever,we should deny them their rights to feed their people.they follow the rules of the number of whales they can kill,just like hunting season here.They don't waste any part of the whale.and when the season is over they go home just like the papers say in the whaling laws for them.
I wonder what would happen to a bunch of hippies run in the woods trying to stop us from hunting.:D
I hope Paul Watson and the crew meet Davey Jones one day
But thats just My opinion and we all know what they say about those
rubberneck
01-07-10, 11:31
They are not "exploiting a loophole" in the Whaling treaty. Every country knew goddamn well what they were agreeing to when they put that provision in the treaty. It was a compromise to get the Japanese to sign the treaty. It was a trade off. I t gave the Japanese the chance to continue whaling but at a pace that was so reduced that it wouldn't threaten the species.
The fact of the matter is that even the anti-whaling groups admit that roughly 25,000 whales have been harvested worldwide since the commercial whaling moratorium went into effect in 1986. Those same groups claim that Japan is responsible for 60% of all the whales killed since then. Doing some quick math that works out to 652 whales harvested annually by the Japanese. This is nothing even remotely close to the mass whale harvesting of the late 19th century and much ado about nothing. It makes for good tv though.
What is wrong with hunting a non threatened very multitudinous ;-) whale species in small numbers? Who are YOU to get your panties all in a twist about it? Get off your high horse.
We westerners (western culture, not western US) hunt deer and elk every year and no one serious gives a flying cr*p. Why can't they hunt small numbers of a whale species which is in much abundance?
This has nothing to do with me being peeved by a bunch of hippie eco-terrorists...
Chad
ps: And BTW, loopholes are meant to be exploited and by definition legal.
A few? They kill something like 1200 whales each season! Their quata is 1330 whales in 2008.
They planned to kill 1070 Minke, 50 Bryde, 100 Sei, 50 Fin and 10 Sperm and 50 Humpback whales!
4 of those species are listed as ENDANGERED! [Sci, Fin, Sperm and Humpback]
Non threatened?
The loop hole in the moritorium says that whales can be taken for Scientific Research. Do you really need to kill 1070 whales of the same species to research it? Man, they must be really studious! Its total BS, how could you not see it. They write "RESEARCH" on the ship, harboon a whale, bring it on board, take it apart and package it, they dont research sh*t. What they are doing is clearly illegal, and the Sea Shepherds are the only ones who stand up to the. Sure they do a half assked job doing it, but better than nothing.
They are not "exploiting a loophole" in the Whaling treaty. Every country knew goddamn well what they were agreeing to when they put that provision in the treaty. It was a compromise to get the Japanese to sign the treaty. It was a trade off. I t gave the Japanese the chance to continue whaling but at a pace that was so reduced that it wouldn't threaten the species.
The fact of the matter is that even the anti-whaling groups admit that roughly 25,000 whales have been harvested worldwide since the commercial whaling moratorium went into effect in 1986. Those same groups claim that Japan is responsible for 60% of all the whales killed since then. Doing some quick math that works out to 652 whales harvested annually by the Japanese. This is nothing even remotely close to the mass whale harvesting of the late 19th century and much ado about nothing. It makes for good tv though.
Incorect
In 1982, the International Whaling Commission (IWC) finally voted in favor of a moratorium on commercial whaling to go into force in 1986 (25-7-5). Japan objected to the moratorium and continued whaling (Under the ICRW an objecting nation is exempted from the disputed regulations. Japan also continued to hunt sperm whales despite a 1981 IWC zero catch quota.).
its not the number as much as it is the fact that they take protected species of whale
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/37/Japan_whaling_1985-2006.svg/600px-
A few? They kill something like 1200 whales each season! Their quata is 1330 whales in 2008.
They planned to kill 1070 Minke, 50 Bryde, 100 Sei, 50 Fin and 10 Sperm and 50 Humpback whales!
4 of those species are listed as ENDANGERED! [Sci, Fin, Sperm and Humpback]
Non threatened?
The loop hole in the moritorium says that whales can be taken for Scientific Research. Do you really need to kill 1070 whales of the same species to research it? Man, they must be really studious! Its total BS, how could you not see it. They write "RESEARCH" on the ship, harboon a whale, bring it on board, take it apart and package it, they dont research sh*t. What they are doing is clearly illegal, and the Sea Shepherds are the only ones who stand up to the. Sure they do a half assked job doing it, but better than nothing.
Good for them. I think the population can support 10 Sperm whales being hunted.
Who are we to go and tell someone they cannot do something -- something that they have been doing for generations. And which the environment can easily support.
And the bat boat got hit trying to interfere with the minke hunt which population is huge and not threatened.
It is frankly none of our freaking business.
We take offense when Japanese complain against "guns". They have every right to take offense at our meddling.
Incorect
In 1982, the International Whaling Commission (IWC) finally voted in favor of a moratorium on commercial whaling to go into force in 1986 (25-7-5). Japan objected to the moratorium and continued whaling (Under the ICRW an objecting nation is exempted from the disputed regulations. Japan also continued to hunt sperm whales despite a 1981 IWC zero catch quota.).
its not the number as much as it is the fact that they take protected species of whale
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/37/Japan_whaling_1985-2006.svg/600px-
"international law" is a figment of your imagination. Only if you agree to be bound by it does it apply to you. There is no "prevailing legal authority" as Al Gore would put it (or something like that).
You yourself admit that objecting nations are not subject to the regulations. The IWC only has legal force to protect things if all people agree and the Japanese evidently don't agree to be subject to them and hence the sperm whales you are so uptight about are not a protected species to the Japanese...
"international law" is a figment of your imagination. Only if you agree to be bound by it does it apply to you. There is no "prevailing legal authority" as Al Gore would put it (or something like that).
You yourself admit that objecting nations are not subject to the regulations. The IWC only has legal force to protect things if all people agree and the Japanese evidently don't agree to be subject to them and hence the sperm whales you are so uptight about are not a protected species to the Japanese...
true, so then then its a question of marality.
i can see that i am just about alone here. so whats the point...
rubberneck
01-07-10, 12:02
I used the figures from a different website but will concede that yours could be accurate but even if they are I am not going to piss my pants over the Japanese harvesting 1300 whales worldwide a year.
Now let me ask you a question. You have made it quite clear that you think the Japanese whaling is abhorrent in general but I have yet to hear you say anything about the Norwegians who refused to sign the treaty and continue to commerically whale at a rate only slightly less than the Japanese.
FromMyColdDeadHand
01-07-10, 12:03
What they are doing is clearly illegal, and the Sea Shepherds are the only ones who stand up to the. Sure they do a half assked job doing it, but better than nothing.
Actually it is worse than nothing. If someone came to my door 18 months ago and asked for money to help protect the whales I'd probably given some money. Now, there is no way in fear that it would go to these bozos. That is my point. They sure as heck don't seem to be able to stop whales being killed RIGHT IN FRONT OF THEM, so their main arena of impact must be propoganda, which they are losing also.
So far they only achievement they have made is a 45 second intro sequence with a 20 year old song. Let's hope they can accomplish more than 1/4 of a music video.
right or wrong, just or unjust there tactics are still wrong. they are terrorists and should be treated as such. if the japanese sank the steve irwin i wouldnt shed a tear.
true, so then then its a question of marality.
i can see that i am just about alone here. so whats the point...
There is nothing moral about the question.
If you believe in God as a Christian, then God gave the earth to man to be his dominion and make use of the abundance in a wise way. No one can argue that the limited number taken is not a wise way.
If you are not a believer in God, then man as top predator on the food chain takes and uses what he needs to survive.
I used the figures from a different website but will concede that yours could be accurate but even if they are I am not going to piss my pants over the Japanese harvesting 1300 whales worldwide a year.
Now let me ask you a question. You have made it quite clear that you think the Japanese whaling is abhorrent in general but I have yet to hear you say anything about the Norwegians who refused to sign the treaty and continue to commerically whale at a rate only slightly less than the Japanese.
Heh! I have never eaten whale and though would like to try it -- more out of curiosity than anything -- my ancestors came from Norway and my wife is from Japan!
(though that has nothing to do on my stance on whaling it is funny to me)
What I loved was: As the Japanese ship just finished plowing through the boat, a Japanese crewman can be seen using a water cannon to blast the crew of the stricken boat. Insult to injury.
I used the figures from a different website but will concede that yours could be accurate but even if they are I am not going to piss my pants over the Japanese harvesting 1300 whales worldwide a year.
Now let me ask you a question. You have made it quite clear that you think the Japanese whaling is abhorrent in general but I have yet to hear you say anything about the Norwegians who refused to sign the treaty and continue to commerically whale at a rate only slightly less than the Japanese.
The only ones I can understand killing whales are the Northern natives in Norway, Canada and Russia. They kills 5 or 6 whales a year and because of the harsh envoronments they live it its one of only a few sources of meat for them.
There is nothing moral about the question.
If you believe in God as a Christian, then God gave the earth to man to be his dominion and make use of the abundance in a wise way. No one can argue that the limited number taken is not a wise way.
If you are not a believer in God, then man as top predator on the food chain takes and uses what he needs to survive.
I do not believe in god what so ever, but humans being the top predetor there is "need" for them to kill whales. They can live just fine, and be able to feed their chaildren w/o killing animals that were previsoly hunted to near extinction levels and are still in limited populations. I think they can easily find an accepteble alternative to whale meat. They just don't want to.
Also, as the top organism on the planet, man has a moral obligation to not rape the natural world. For the same reason people hunt deer to control "over-population", they should not kill whales to allow their populations to come back to pre-whaling numbers.
right or wrong, just or unjust there tactics are still wrong. they are terrorists and should be treated as such. if the japanese sank the steve irwin i wouldnt shed a tear.
I honestly do not see it that way. We droped the A-Bomb on Japan twice to save the lives of our service men who would have undoubtebly died in the invation of Japan in '45. The Sea Shephards believe that this is their war, and use these tactics to prevent needless killing of animals that they believe along with the IWC should not be hunted. You say Human > Whale, but if the human takes a whale that is endangered, and protected, inside waters that are supposed to be a sactuary for whales, I say Whale > Human, and so do the Sea Shepherds.
If I had the ability and means to not work for the needed period of time, I would without hesitation volunteer to join their "crew" for a season.
Human > any animal on the face of the planet at any given time. Suggesting war (where the objective is to kill the enemy) should be waged on humans for hunting animals is a pretty out there idea to me. Should we be good stewards of the planet? Yes. Should we run around killing other humans because we disagree on the sustainability of their whaling practices? No, it shouldn't be suggested. Loud whining, griping, and a really boring TV show are not the way to fix a problem (which may or may not exist) anyways.
ST IV plotlines excepted, of course.
I do not believe in god what so ever, but humans being the top predetor there is "need" for them to kill whales. They can live just fine, and be able to feed their chaildren w/o killing animals that were previsoly hunted to near extinction levels and are still in limited populations. I think they can easily find an accepteble alternative to whale meat. They just don't want to.
So who are you to tell others what they need. Do you like it when others tell YOU what to do? What to eat?
Upon what do you base your "morality"? Since you do not believe in God, where does your moral authority come from?
Humans are animals like any other animal, and as a top predator can take whatever other animal they want. Survival of the fittest, law of the jungle, and all that.
Also, as the top organism on the planet, man has a moral obligation to not rape the natural world. For the same reason people hunt deer to control "over-population", they should not kill whales to allow their populations to come back to pre-whaling numbers.
Again, where does this "morality" come from? Upon what is it based and where does it get its authority?
Hunting 1300 whales a year is not raping the planet / natural world. Nor is it going to make the whale population NOT recover.
I honestly do not see it that way. We droped the A-Bomb on Japan twice to save the lives of our service men who would have undoubtebly died in the invation of Japan in '45. The Sea Shephards believe that this is their war, and use these tactics to prevent needless killing of animals that they believe along with the IWC should not be hunted. You say Human > Whale, but if the human takes a whale that is endangered, and protected, inside waters that are supposed to be a sactuary for whales, I say Whale > Human, and so do the Sea Shepherds.
If I had the ability and means to not work for the needed period of time, I would without hesitation volunteer to join their "crew" for a season.
Hope you can swim! Buy some life insurance before you go.
The loop hole in the moritorium says that whales can be taken for Scientific Research. Do you really need to kill 1070 whales of the same species to research it? Man, they must be really studious! Its total BS, how could you not see it. They write "RESEARCH" on the ship, harboon a whale, bring it on board, take it apart and package it, they dont research sh*t. What they are doing is clearly illegal, and the Sea Shepherds are the only ones who stand up to the. Sure they do a half assked job doing it, but better than nothing.
No offense, but it is pretty obvious that it is called "research" but it is really commercial whaling. They have not tried to hide it. Also, consider a controlled level hunt combined with in depth population studies. You can get a very good idea of how robust the population of a given species is.
I do agree that the hunting of humpback, sie, fin and sperm whales seems wrong, and I'm not a huge fan of this. However, they do pull a good amount of actual research out of these animals compared to the common minke whales.
When you look at the numbers, I don't see anything wrong with limited scope hunting of a very small number of animals in regard to an animals total population. For the endangered species, as long as the best estimates show the population is increasing, then things are fine. Besides, it is in the whaler's best interest to control the harvest for long term sustainability.
Then you throw a guy like Watson into the mix, and suddenly you have a polarizing figure and get people emotionally riled up. All ability at sound reason gets thrown out the window.
btw
Uuvis hangs around down in the Antarctic for long periods of time ;-) Not saying he is a whale expert but he does have some knowledge of things.
I honestly do not see it that way. We droped the A-Bomb on Japan twice to save the lives of our service men who would have undoubtebly died in the invation of Japan in '45. The Sea Shephards believe that this is their war, and use these tactics to prevent needless killing of animals that they believe along with the IWC should not be hunted. You say Human > Whale, but if the human takes a whale that is endangered, and protected, inside waters that are supposed to be a sactuary for whales, I say Whale > Human, and so do the Sea Shepherds.
If I had the ability and means to not work for the needed period of time, I would without hesitation volunteer to join their "crew" for a season.
Your equating the A-Bomb with these edo-terrorists is ridiculous.
We have a term for a private organization, not sponsored by any country that is waging war against civilians not unlike what the Sea Sherpherd .org 's doing: TERRORISM!
They're no better than Al Qaeda, Hamas or Hezbollah and you support them. NICE!
I honestly do not see it that way. We droped the A-Bomb on Japan twice to save the lives of our service men who would have undoubtebly died in the invation of Japan in '45. The Sea Shephards believe that this is their war, and use these tactics to prevent needless killing of animals that they believe along with the IWC should not be hunted. You say Human > Whale, but if the human takes a whale that is endangered, and protected, inside waters that are supposed to be a sactuary for whales, I say Whale > Human, and so do the Sea Shepherds.
If I had the ability and means to not work for the needed period of time, I would without hesitation volunteer to join their "crew" for a season.
you are seriously not trying to comparing a world war to fishing. I dont necessarily agree or disagree with whaling. what i do disagree with is acts of terrorism placed in a good light buy self serving clowns (damn you bob barker). Honestly if it were me and some one was throwing "chemical weapons" at me id prolly respond in kind. and ive seen that moron actually ram a Japanese boat. to me thats an act of terrorism and attempted murder. watson and everyone on that boat is a terrorist. agree or disagree there methods are not appropriate.
Buncha HOA Somalis engage in this type of criminal activity, it's piracy.
Buncha holier-than-thou cracker granolas engage in this type of criminal activity, it's environmental activism?
Right. Thank god for progress, huh?
Buncha HOA Somalis engage in this type of criminal activity, it's piracy.
Buncha holier-than-thou cracker granolas engage in this type of criminal activity, it's environmental activism?
No no no, you've got it all wrong.
Somali pirates prey on innocent humans and are therefore criminals who should be killed.
Japanese whalers prey on innocent whales and are therefore big ole meanies who should be forced to scratch their hulls with eco-terrorist "stealth" boats.
The Sea Shepherds are, like, the SEALs of the eco SpecOps world, dude. Just minus the fitness, training, gear, integrity, and authority of a sovereign nation.
John_Wayne777
01-07-10, 14:36
All I know is this:
If some PETA fruitloop assaulted me while I was trying to buy a steak, he'd get a face full of Fox Labs' finest brew and a kick in the teeth.
It's one thing to care about the cute animals. It's another to assault people just because you don't like that they are doing what they are legally allowed to do.
Also, as I posted in this thread/page (http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=33297&highlight=shepherd&page=3):
Anyhow, here is some good reading of an event I remember:
Cameras putting lives at risk in Antarctic, say whalers (http://www.3news.co.nz/News/InternationalNews/Cameras-putting-lives-at-risk-in-Antarctic-say-whalers/tabid/417/articleID/85636/cat/61/Default.aspx)
Whalers help look for Sea Shepherds (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/oceans/news/article.cfm?c_id=272&objectid=10423192)
What gets me with these guys is the double standard and amateur hour exploits. They tell everyone far and wide that they offered to help look for a whaler lost at sea, and that their offer to provide assistance was refused. Waters around here are .9C at about the warmest, and usually under -1.5C. In other words, freaking cold, and your survival without a suit is measured in seconds or maybe minutes if you are lucky. The sea had, in all likely hood, already claimed him, it was a recovery mission at that point. That didn't stop Watson from getting on the phone and calling every media outlet that would listen that they offered to help, and were refused.
When the sea shepherds put out a distress call because they lost comms with a couple of their folks on a zodiac, the Japanese whalers didn't stop to ask if they could help. They are professional sailors. They stopped whatever they were doing, and started searching, as that is what they are expected to do. This story BARELY made the media.
To me, this is the difference between the two groups.
Thomas M-4
01-07-10, 14:48
No no no, you've got it all wrong.
Somali pirates prey on innocent humans and are therefore criminals who should be killed.
Japanese whalers prey on innocent whales and are therefore big ole meanies who should be forced to scratch their hulls with eco-terrorist "stealth" boats.
The Sea Shepherds are, like, the SEALs of the eco SpecOps world, dude. Just minus the fitness, training, gear, integrity, and authority of a sovereign nation.
Your forgot they are a bunch of stupid Dumba$$e$. And now after thinking about it I believe they could care less about the whales and more about there TV ratings. What stupid idiot would buy a $2million dollar carbon fiber racing BAT boat to play chicken with a with an Ice rated hull whaling ship in the middle of the Antarctica WTF:confused::rolleyes: What a$$clown do you have in charge of the banking account :confused:
John_Wayne777
01-07-10, 14:53
Your forgot they are a bunch of stupid Dumba$$e$. And now after thinking about it I believe they could care less about the whales and more about there TV ratings. What stupid idiot would buy a $2million dollar carbon fiber racing BAT boat to play chicken with a with an Ice rated hull whaling ship in the middle of the Antarctica WTF:confused::rolleyes: What a$$clown do you have in charge of the banking account :confused:
They probably didn't see a problem since the whalers have never really done anything in retaliation to the enviro-fruits. Not even when the dorks were throwing huge glass bottles full of god-knows-what at them. The worst they've done is turn a hose on 'em.
Nobody ever seems to give a damn that the enviro-fruits routinely do stuff that endangers the life and well being of human beings. I guess that's part of the benefit of being a "pirate"...you don't have to give a damn what you do to others.
All I know is this:
If some PETA fruitloop assaulted me while I was trying to buy a steak, he'd get a face full of Fox Labs' finest brew and a kick in the teeth.
It's one thing to care about the cute animals. It's another to assault people just because you don't like that they are doing what they are legally allowed to do.
exactly. next time your out hunting/fishing and some one trys to run you over with a hybrid just feel free and shoot there hippie ass.
All I know is this:
If some PETA fruitloop assaulted me while I was trying to buy a steak, he'd get a face full of Fox Labs' finest brew and a kick in the teeth.
It's one thing to care about the cute animals. It's another to assault people just because you don't like that they are doing what they are legally allowed to do.
Exactly. Why is it that every tree hugger and PETA freak acts like they've been ordained by the Pope to wage a holy crusade against those who differ from them.
I have nothing but scorn and derision for their ilk. :mad:
So who are you to tell others what they need. Do you like it when others tell YOU what to do? What to eat?
Upon what do you base your "morality"? Since you do not believe in God, where does your moral authority come from?
Humans are animals like any other animal, and as a top predator can take whatever other animal they want. Survival of the fittest, law of the jungle, and all that.
Again, where does this "morality" come from? Upon what is it based and where does it get its authority?
Hunting 1300 whales a year is not raping the planet / natural world. Nor is it going to make the whale population NOT recover.
Hope you can swim! Buy some life insurance before you go.
One does not have to believe in an existance of a god to have moral values. I would say that my morality comes from the same morality that the human, non omnipotent beings who wrote the many bibles of the worlds many religions and projected onto a fixtional diaty as handing down to man.
You do not have to believe in a god to see that killing a whale who's numbers caused it to be placed on an a list of other endangered animals is wrong.
Your equating the A-Bomb with these edo-terrorists is ridiculous.
We have a term for a private organization, not sponsored by any country that is waging war against civilians not unlike what the Sea Sherpherd .org 's doing: TERRORISM!
They're no better than Al Qaeda, Hamas or Hezbollah and you support them. NICE!
The Sea Shepherds are not sponsored by any one country, rather by the contributions of many individuals. I have sent them $20 as well ;) lol
Okay, you call them terorists, because they endanger the lives of the Japanese whalers and interfere in their ability to earn a wage and so on. You equate the Sea Shepherds to Al Qaeda and Hezbollah. Those two groups kill innocent people, the Shepherds, do not kill anyone, though I can see how their actions may endanger lives.
But let me play the devils advocate here. So I pose this to you, which I am sure is going to get me flamed like no other, [take the events of 9/11 out of the picture], you see the Sea Shepherds as a terrorist and side with the Japanese, similarly, one can see the US Military as Terrorists going in and taking out Sadam.
Once again, this is a FAR streatch but think about it.
1 - The Iraqi's did not ask for help from us, same as the whales did not ask for help from the Sea Shepherds.
2 - Sadam was killing people in Iraq same as the Japanese kill whales and the rest of the world did not say much
3 - We went in and "liberated" the Iraqi people from Sadam same as the Shephards are being "liberated" from the Japanese.
Non of you will agree with me since most have ties to the military, and believe me, I support our troops in w/e they do. I was just making an example.
I dont think groups like Al Q. fits the comparison because they wage war on civilians for no reason other than they believe their god told them to. They believe in god, look at their morality. [Yet another reason why believeing in god does not equal morality.] The Sea Shepherds are trying to defend endangered whales.
Buncha HOA Somalis engage in this type of criminal activity, it's piracy.
Buncha holier-than-thou cracker granolas engage in this type of criminal activity, it's environmental activism?
Right. Thank god for progress, huh?
I dont think the hippies are capturing Japanese ships for financial gain so once again, I don't think this is a valid argument.
One does not have to believe in an existance of a god to have moral values. I would say that my morality comes from the same morality that the human, non omnipotent beings who wrote the many bibles of the worlds many religions and projected onto a fixtional diaty as handing down to man.
You do not have to believe in a god to see that killing a whale who's numbers caused it to be placed on an a list of other endangered animals is wrong.
please:
So who are you to tell others what they need. Do you like it when others tell YOU what to do? What to eat?
Upon what do you base your "morality"? Since you do not believe in God, where does your moral authority come from?
Humans are animals like any other animal, and as a top predator can take whatever other animal they want. Survival of the fittest, law of the jungle, and all that.
Again, where does this "morality" come from? Upon what is it based and where does it get its authority?
Hunting 1300 whales a year is not raping the planet / natural world. Nor is it going to make the whale population NOT recover.
I never said you had to believe in god or God. [The idea of god/God was to see what angle you are coming from]
I asked a simple question or set of questions.
Where does your morality come from? Who are you to says something is immoral?
I dont think groups like Al Q. fits the comparison because they wage war on civilians for no reason other than they believe their god told them to. They believe in god, look at their morality. [Yet another reason why believeing in god does not equal morality.]
for the record: I never said believing in god/God equals morality.
Typical whiney crybaby behavior. They want to act out and behave like idiots but they don't want to pay the freight when the poop hits the windshield. How did we end up with so many adult sized 13 year olds running around this planet? :confused:
please:
I never said you had to believe in god or God. [The idea of god/God was to see what angle you are coming from]
I asked a simple question or set of questions.
Where does your morality come from? Who are you to says something is immoral?
well along the same lines, who are you to say that that the Sea Shepherds are wrong in what they are doing? Or the Japanese should be alowed to kill endangered animals?
I feel that it is immoral to kill an animal that is endangered. I have no authority to tell the Japanese to stop, so clearly it is only an opinion. I am not imposing my "morality" onto anyone, simply saying I think the Japanese are in the wrong, and the Shepherds are in the right on this issue.
FromMyColdDeadHand
01-07-10, 15:41
They probably didn't see a problem since the whalers have never really done anything in retaliation to the enviro-fruits. Not even when the dorks were throwing huge glass bottles full of god-knows-what at them. The worst they've done is turn a hose on 'em.
The whalers did use the LRADs on them - don't really seem effective. They also threw bolts and nuts at the Sea Shepherd- supposedly. I could see them trying to fake that. Stink bombs - I really don't think that is going to do much when you open up the stomache contents of a whale. Really juvenile behavior that is going to lead to something bad.
One of those smelly hippies is going to get a boat named after them.
for the record: I never said believing in god/God equals morality.
no you did not, but it apeared to be implied when it was stated that since I don't believe in god, where does my morality come from.
The whalers did use the LRADs on them - don't really seem effective. They also threw bolts and nuts at the Sea Shepherd- supposedly. I could see them trying to fake that. Stink bombs - I really don't think that is going to do much when you open up the stomache contents of a whale. Really juvenile behavior that is going to lead to something bad.
One of those smelly hippies is going to get a boat named after them.
they are not stink bombs, they are jars of Butyric acid, this gets all over the deck on which they butcher the whales, if this acid gets on the meat, it renders the meat unexeptable for human consumption. The idea is that if they taint the meat it will make the venture less profitable for the Japanese and they will stop. Unfortunatly, the whale is dead at this point, so might as well use it for food.
This is not one their brightest ideas.
Two million would have gone a long way in providing effective training and equipment for the deterrence of whalers.
I watched season one of Whale Wars just to watch these retards screw themselves with their continuous ineptitude. I had to stop watching, even though it was hilarious, because Captain Kool Aid was such a blatant FOS drama queen.
no you did not, but it apeared to be implied when it was stated that since I don't believe in god, where does my morality come from.
I asked since I know where believers claim to get their morality from. Since you do not believe in god/God I wanted to know where you got your morality from. From where you claim moral authority to tell others how to behave and what they should be doing.
well along the same lines, who are you to say that that the Sea Shepherds are wrong in what they are doing? Or the Japanese should be alowed to kill endangered animals?
I feel that it is immoral to kill an animal that is endangered. I have no authority to tell the Japanese to stop, so clearly it is only an opinion. I am not imposing my "morality" onto anyone, simply saying I think the Japanese are in the wrong, and the Shepherds are in the right on this issue.
Most people, believers or not, can agree that attempting to harm others or their property is wrong. Your rights end at the end of my nose, so to speak. So what the so-called Sea Shepherds are doing would be "wrong" in most people's books.
Minke whales are not endangered and the very small number of whales killed by the Japanese that some people claim as endangered are no harm to the survival of those species. Since man is the top predator, he can hunt any other animal for his food. As I said, "law of the jungle". It may not be the smartest thing to hunt something to extinction but the Japanese are not doing that. And the minke whales in the Antarctic, where the Sea Shepherds, so-called, are being *ssclowns and doing dumb and dangerous things, are not endangered, so stop talking about the Japanese killing endangered animals, because that is not the truth here.
You ARE imposing your morality on others. You said yourself you support the Sea Shepherds and gave them $20 and the Sea Shepherds ARE imposing their morality and you are an accessory.
You can "feel" that something is immoral all you want. But you don't have the right to interfere with others who are not violating other people's rights.
Thomas M-4
01-07-10, 16:05
Two million would have gone a long way in providing effective training and equipment for the deterrence of whalers.
I watched season one of Whale Wars just to watch these retards screw themselves with their continuous ineptitude. I had to stop watching, even though it was hilarious, because Captain Kool Aid was such a blatant FOS drama queen.
Exactly!!!! That is why I am starting to think they don't give a crap about the whales they want to show off for TV.
You know when Green Peace calls them terrorist that they must be ****tards... Good for them. The boat looked pretty cool though.:cool:
Exactly!!!! That is why I am starting to think they don't give a crap about the whales they want to show off for TV.
I just think that is what happens when you give two million dollars to a bunch of greenie hippies who never had to actually provide for themselves or be accountable. Instead of doing something intelligent or productive, they buy a cool new batboat and promptly trash it.
Their goal of saving whales has never been the actual goal. Feeling good about their activism is all they really care about. This is why it doesn't matter when they fall flat on their face and live in constant failure.
If Japan agreed to cease whaling completely, these activists wouldn't simply return home with a sense of accomplishment like a returning veteran glad it is finally over, they'd simply move onto the next political activists cause and see how much they can screw that up. They have nothing else, and the "look at me I'm special because I care" crap is the only thing they have that makes them feel significant.
I dont think the hippies are capturing Japanese ships for financial gain so once again, I don't think this is a valid argument.
Since piracy does not automatically presuppose acts done in the interest of monetary gain, what you think is invalid in this idiom, as it is diametrically opposed to the facts.
They're plying their trade in front of cameras for the sake of profit, instead. Not illegal, but nor are Jackass or Viva la Bam, and theirs is the same level of viable content. Which is to say none.
Also, speaking strictly as a boat-handler, for people who may or may not have an intent to board and seize, they suck donkey dong at it while simultaneously engaging in acts of piracy. They're a danger to everybody on the water just going to-and-fro. I'm hard-pressed to decide which group, smelly HOA pirates or smelly douchebag ones, need to assume room temperature worse.
And, is it me, or does that captain not look like mongoloid Kenny Rogers? Bet my life that there's a silly-straw chromosome floating around in there somewhere, which would explain his dementia.
Alpha Sierra
01-07-10, 19:26
We have a term for a private organization, not sponsored by any country that is waging war against civilians not unlike what the Sea Sherpherd .org 's doing: TERRORISM!
They're no better than Al Qaeda, Hamas or Hezbollah and you support them. NICE!
Which is why the Japanese government should treat them as pirates subject to summary execution at sea and send the JMSDF to do the job right.
I work with the Japanese and it is too bad that we castrated them so hard after WW2 that they are still nutless when it comes to taking an active role in their defense. I have no doubt that Japanese service men are still hardcore, but the people who control them certainly seem to lack the stomach to use armed force even when it is clearly justified in self defense of their citizens.
Japan should just release the hounds......
RancidSumo
01-07-10, 21:19
Okay, you call them terorists, because they endanger the lives of the Japanese whalers and interfere in their ability to earn a wage and so on. You equate the Sea Shepherds to Al Qaeda and Hezbollah. Those two groups kill innocent people, the Shepherds, do not kill anyone, though I can see how their actions may endanger lives.
But let me play the devils advocate here. So I pose this to you, which I am sure is going to get me flamed like no other, [take the events of 9/11 out of the picture], you see the Sea Shepherds as a terrorist and side with the Japanese, similarly, one can see the US Military as Terrorists going in and taking out Sadam.
Once again, this is a FAR streatch but think about it.
1 - The Iraqi's did not ask for help from us, same as the whales did not ask for help from the Sea Shepherds.
2 - Sadam was killing people in Iraq same as the Japanese kill whales and the rest of the world did not say much
3 - We went in and "liberated" the Iraqi people from Sadam same as the Shephards are being "liberated" from the Japanese.
This is a BS argument. The difference here lies in what is a just war. Take Rand for example. She states that if a government is violating the rights of the people then it is not a just government and war is justifiable. Therefore, war against Sadam is allowable. Killing whales is not a just reason to go to war
well along the same lines, who are you to say that that the Sea Shepherds are wrong in what they are doing? Or the Japanese should be alowed to kill endangered animals?
I feel that it is immoral to kill an animal that is endangered. I have no authority to tell the Japanese to stop, so clearly it is only an opinion. I am not imposing my "morality" onto anyone, simply saying I think the Japanese are in the wrong, and the Shepherds are in the right on this issue.
It doesn't matter who is right, the fact remains that the Shepherds do not have any right to destroy the property of the whalers of endanger their lives.
they are not stink bombs, they are jars of Butyric acid, this gets all over the deck on which they butcher the whales, if this acid gets on the meat, it renders the meat unexeptable for human consumption. The idea is that if they taint the meat it will make the venture less profitable for the Japanese and they will stop. Unfortunatly, the whale is dead at this point, so might as well use it for food.
This is not one their brightest ideas.
I find this hilarious. So they are opposed to killing whales so the ruin the meat of the ones that are already dead so that absolutely nothing can come from their death? :confused:
What it comes down to for me is if enough people are against the idea of whaling then they can boycott and use other means to end the practice via the free market. It is not the job of the government to ban all distasteful actions. I think these idiots got what was coming to them and I wouldn't give a shit if the Japanese started shooting at these terrorists whenever they tried to interfere.
Thomas M-4
01-07-10, 21:51
http://lh3.ggpht.com/_JUSbC9iPV_c/S0apbNZkSJI/AAAAAAAACuk/jvuOzaX1Xwg/BOAT.jpg
Looks like the whalers had a clean sweep:D
Bat boat 0 whalers 1
this thread definitely took a turn somewhere that I didn't expect ( ok, yes I did:):))
they are nothing more than publicity whores. As someone stated earlier, you're protesting whaling and use THAT boat? give me half the money it cost, and I'll get a boat 10 times better for the purpose. Why the batmoboat? Because its cool and gets attention.
Also, how much money has gone into making and funding Whale Wars, and how many whales have they saved in the progress?:rolleyes:
A couple dozen mass casualty attention craving slimeballs are NOT going to stop an entire nation from whaling. It's going to happen whether you like it or not. And as many have pointed out in very fact based posts, the impact on whales isn't quite tearing them off the face of the earth
It says they have saved 305 whales at the bottom of the page? Doesn't seem like they have done much except make me want to eat a whale burger.
My girlfriend gets pissed at me every time I try to order sweet and sour Panda at panda express...
The Sea Shepherds are, like, the SEALs of the eco SpecOps world, dude. Just minus the fitness, training, gear, integrity, and authority of a sovereign nation.
That's just plain awesome
EDIT: BTW, these sea shepherds are a complete joke, anyone who's served more than 5 minutes in the US Navy can see these clowns don't even belong behind the oars of a dingy in a man made lake. It's just by sheer luck paul, whatever his name is, hasn't killed no one yet and calling him captain is a c--k slap in the face to mariners everywhere.
My girlfriend gets pissed at me every time I try to order sweet and sour Panda at panda express...
Good idea, thanks.
japan needs to just board them and put them all in prison.
japan needs to just board them and put them all in prison.
I like this.
japan needs to just board them and put them all in prison.
Not sure they have much of a military these days.. I know they have a "National Guard" of some sort... but not sure what kinda naval forces they posses.
I'm sure the smart guys on here will chime in on what they could actually do...
landrvrnut22
01-08-10, 09:08
You have to watch the Southpark episode about whale wars. They put it best.
The captain and the crew are a joke. The captain was booted from Greenpeace board of directors in 1977 for being a bit overzealous. Now he's on his own, still at it, and failing miserably.
Do the whales need saved? Yes.
But to watch these assclowns try to save them is just a joke. The Austrailian government had to bail them out when 2 idiots boarded a Japanese vessel, and were taken captive. Now the Austrailian government is telling them to stop. Pretty soon, they will get themselves in serious trouble, and no government is going to help.
Most people, believers or not, can agree that attempting to harm others or their property is wrong. Your rights end at the end of my nose, so to speak. So what the so-called Sea Shepherds are doing would be "wrong" in most people's books.
Minke whales are not endangered and the very small number of whales killed by the Japanese that some people claim as endangered are no harm to the survival of those species. Since man is the top predator, he can hunt any other animal for his food. As I said, "law of the jungle". It may not be the smartest thing to hunt something to extinction but the Japanese are not doing that. And the minke whales in the Antarctic, where the Sea Shepherds, so-called, are being *ssclowns and doing dumb and dangerous things, are not endangered, so stop talking about the Japanese killing endangered animals, because that is not the truth here.
You ARE imposing your morality on others. You said yourself you support the Sea Shepherds and gave them $20 and the Sea Shepherds ARE imposing their morality and you are an accessory.
You can "feel" that something is immoral all you want. But you don't have the right to interfere with others who are not violating other people's rights.
Sure harming others' property of endangering their lives is wrong, but not when what the property that is harmed is being used for something that can also be seen as wrong. There is no problem when a cop uses a PIT Maneuver on a fleeing suspenct. It will surely damage the suspects' car, but it will prevent him/her from doing more damage. The Sea Shepherds believe they are doing something similar. I happen to agree with them.
I know Minke whales are not endangered, but Sperm, Fin, Sci and Humpbacks are, and they kill them as well. Sure they don't kill them in as great a number, but if they are endangered, why kill them at all?
Since piracy does not automatically presuppose acts done in the interest of monetary gain, what you think is invalid in this idiom, as it is diametrically opposed to the facts.
They're plying their trade in front of cameras for the sake of profit, instead. Not illegal, but nor are Jackass or Viva la Bam, and theirs is the same level of viable content. Which is to say none.
Also, speaking strictly as a boat-handler, for people who may or may not have an intent to board and seize, they suck donkey dong at it while simultaneously engaging in acts of piracy. They're a danger to everybody on the water just going to-and-fro. I'm hard-pressed to decide which group, smelly HOA pirates or smelly douchebag ones, need to assume room temperature worse.
And, is it me, or does that captain not look like mongoloid Kenny Rogers? Bet my life that there's a silly-straw chromosome floating around in there somewhere, which would explain his dementia.
Clearly they are not great mariners...
Plus, I do not think what they are doing is for proffit, instead simply to be able to continue and support their efforts.
This is a BS argument. The difference here lies in what is a just war. Take Rand for example. She states that if a government is violating the rights of the people then it is not a just government and war is justifiable. Therefore, war against Sadam is allowable. Killing whales is not a just reason to go to war
It doesn't matter who is right, the fact remains that the Shepherds do not have any right to destroy the property of the whalers of endanger their lives.
I find this hilarious. So they are opposed to killing whales so the ruin the meat of the ones that are already dead so that absolutely nothing can come from their death? :confused:
What it comes down to for me is if enough people are against the idea of whaling then they can boycott and use other means to end the practice via the free market. It is not the job of the government to ban all distasteful actions. I think these idiots got what was coming to them and I wouldn't give a shit if the Japanese started shooting at these terrorists whenever they tried to interfere.
One can argue that the Japanese are violating the rights of the whales. Sure its a pretty far streatch, but then again, no one is going to war over whales, they are simply trying to stop the Japanese from whaling.
As far as the butyric acid, clearly they are not rocket scientist. I never said they were not total screw ups, I just agree with their view that killing whales that are protected is wrong.
The other problem is that those whales are protected in the waters of 90% of the earth because they are endangered. Whales take a long time to reproduce and rebuild there population. Japan has no rights to them over anyone else. They are a global resource, not just theres to hunt, and if everyone else protects them why shouldn't they? I don't support SeaShepards actions at all either because those whalers are only doing there job and dont need to be in any more danger. But really, hunting whales should be stopped legally, or at least with better equipment and crews... And maybe, if you can find them, The A-Team!
Ok, this is all false. The whales [I]generally[I] hunted are of not endangered. There are a estamated 706100 minke Whales in the southern hemispher. japan planned to hunt 340 minke whales, 100 Sei, 50 Byrd, and 10 Sperm whales annually. That seems fair, and IF they stick to those numbers a good fishing program on a healthy population.
rubberneck
01-08-10, 10:46
Sure harming others' property of endangering their lives is wrong, but not when what the property that is harmed is being used for something that can also be seen as wrong.
So if some eco douchebag decides that your car is contributing to the destruction of the worlds ecosystem you'll have no issues if they decide to decide to destroy your car with you in it. After all someone decided that you and your property are doing something they see as wrong. It doesn't matter if you agree or disagree with it being wrong, right?
SinnFéinM1911
01-08-10, 11:03
My personal opinions:
A - The Hippes that take this action are shitheads
B - The Shark Finners are shitheads
C - The Whalers are shitheads for hunting endangered species
D - Comparing LEGAL deer, moose and elk hunting is not the same
E - I Personally wouldn't hunt anything that could not hunt me back or protect itself
F - I support and do endorse LEGAL hunting of any animal for food or resources as long as it doesn’t effect the rest of the eco-system.
This should go over like a fart in church.....:(
Sure harming others' property of endangering their lives is wrong, but not when what the property that is harmed is being used for something that can also be seen as wrong.
Sarah Brady called. You're hired.
Business_Casual
01-08-10, 11:13
D - Comparing LEGAL deer, moose and elf hunting is not the same
That is an awesome typo!
M_P
parishioner
01-08-10, 11:23
The obvious solution: HOPLOETHOS
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e225/teehee321/IMG_0064Large.jpg
used with permission
Hell, while they're at it, the Japanese could give the old harpoon a rest and have Hoplo on the gun deck with the Barrett. ;)
D - Comparing LEGAL deer, moose and elf hunting is not the same
Could you let us all know what elf tastes like? Similar to leprechaun, unicorn, jackalope? :p
My personal opinions:
D - Comparing LEGAL deer, moose and elf hunting is not the same
F - I support and do endorse LEGAL hunting of any animal for food or resources as long as it doesn’t effect the rest of the eco-system.
Note that the Japanese are not illegally hunting. If they were this would not be a bunch of hippies only out stopping them but actions would be taken at a higher level more than trying to convince them at IWC meetings to stop.
As AL GORE once famously said, paraphrasing, there is no controlling legal authority.
SinnFéinM1911
01-08-10, 12:17
Note that the Japanese are not illegally hunting. If they were this would not be a bunch of hippies only out stopping them but actions would be taken at a higher level more than trying to convince them at IWC meetings to stop.
As AL GORE once famously said, paraphrasing, there is no controlling legal authority.
I thought they were hunting endangered species? Thats legal?
SinnFéinM1911
01-08-10, 12:18
Could you let us all know what elf tastes like? Similar to leprechaun, unicorn, jackalope? :p
Ill let you know. HAHA Im such an ass... LOL
I thought they were hunting endangered species? Thats legal?
The minke whale is not endangered AFAIK -- there are a ton of them out there -- and that is what they are hunting in the antarctic.
However, who determines what is endangered at the international level? A country can enforce that on their own citizens but only through treaty can countries enforce it and make such declarations against each other. The IWC is a group of countries that talks about and trys to set whale policy. AFAIK the Japanese are doing what they do within the limits set by the IWC.
There is no problem when a cop uses a PIT Maneuver on a fleeing suspenct.
:confused:
BIG difference, I'm actually surprised that you brought something like that up. LEO's have the authority and training to do so, and it is also their JOB. The Sea Shepherds have no authority, no training (very obvious) and are nothing more than ecological terrorists, and as almost all of us can agree, do more damage to their own cause then to halt whaling.
Its no different than you driving down the road, seeing a car with an Obama sticker, pulling up next to it and start pelting it with beer cans and paint thinner.
The obvious solution: HOPLOETHOS
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e225/teehee321/IMG_0064Large.jpg
used with permission
Hell, while they're at it, the Japanese could give the old harpoon a rest and have Hoplo on the gun deck with the Barrett. ;)
Gotta love the "offhand" with the Barrett!!
Thomas M-4
01-08-10, 14:59
If the Japanese are following the rules of the treaty that they signed then they are in there legal right to hunt. They didn't have to sign the treaty they could have told every body to f@ck off we do has we wish but they didn't and I have not heard of any body saying they have gone out side the limits set .
And as far as the shark finners I have no problem with them hunting the sharks but it is a crying shame that they waste so much for so little.
:confused:
BIG difference, I'm actually surprised that you brought something like that up. LEO's have the authority and training to do so, and it is also their JOB. The Sea Shepherds have no authority, no training (very obvious) and are nothing more than ecological terrorists, and as almost all of us can agree, do more damage to their own cause then to halt whaling.
Fair enough, since it was said earlier that Internationa law is a figmant of the imaginations, then we can consider the Sea Shepherd acttions as vigilantism.
I think we should just agree to disagree, since this can go on forever.
I believe that what the Japanese are doing is wrong, you clearly disagree. I am told that what the Sea Shepherds are doing is an act of terrorism, I happen to disagree.
I don't necessarily disagree with your examples to prove your point, I am simply going to the edge to point out the Sea Shepherds view. The problem is that there is no binding legislation that shows that what the Japanese are doing is wrong, unlike a cop spining out a fleeing suspenct into a tree. Fair enough. But just because there is no law to say its wrong, does not mean that one can not feel it to be so.
Its no different than you driving down the road, seeing a car with an Obama sticker, pulling up next to it and start pelting it with beer cans and paint thinner.
LOL
Funny you mention that... I had two $%&#*% in a car on the New Jersey Turnpike swerve at me because I have a NOBAMA sticker on the back of my car. lol
But if I saw someone being mugged [and I had the right to carry in NJ] I would try and stop the crime even though I do not have the authority and training to do so, does this make me bad like it does the Sea Shepherds? There is a "no kill" clous in the IWC whaling moritorium for Humpbacks, but the Japanese still take them. Since there is no one else to enforce the treaty, maybe its up to those asshats?
I am told that what the Sea Shepherds are doing is an act of terrorism, I happen to disagree.
FWIW, Green Peace calls them terrorist... Kinda like what they call ELF, or whoever the hell they are....
japan needs to just board them and put them all in prison.
Better yet, hire Blackwater to provide shooters for fleet security.
Damn, I need to go get some more popcorn. :D
RogerinTPA
01-08-10, 17:14
Damn, I need to go get some more popcorn. :D
lol...no shit!:p
They are eco-terrorist/pirates. **** em. The Japanese Navy should be blowing their asses out of the water.
Business_Casual
01-08-10, 17:21
You'll notice they steer clear of the French Navy.
M_P
Ridge_Runner_5
01-08-10, 17:36
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b100/89Sunbird/stupid/632b7151.jpg
^^^^
I haven't laughed that hard in while!!
tracker722
01-08-10, 18:23
I feel the Japanese have exercised a lot of restraint against these wackos. IMO, every one of the Sea Shepards should be shot out of the water or brought up on criminal piracy charges. Not taking up for the whalers, but their actions are no different than any other eco-terrorists.
BTW, I love that Southpark cartoon!!!
Belmont31R
01-08-10, 19:33
My opinion is they are borderline terrorists/pirates.
The Japanese signed the treaty when they didn't have to. Their are their own country with their own laws operating in international waters.
I also don't understand why so many seem bent out of shape over the killing of whales while at the same time they are wearing leather shoes or a belt. Hell there are so many animal products we use on a daily basis no one even thinks of. For instance the coatings on pills and the capsules are made from gellatin which is an animal product. I wonder how many hippy tofu eating whackos pop pills with gellatin coatings not even knowing they are eating something made from animal skin and bones.
Anyways the point is I don't think its right to decry the killing of whales when we depend on animals everyday. Just because its a whale doesnt make it any different than killing a cow or a chicken. They are all animals, and we use all of them. People have been harvesting whales for hundreds if not thousands of years. It shouldnt be stopped just because some animal rights people dont like it. The only thing I am against is depleting populations down to where they are non-existent or close to it. Sorta like what happened to the wild bison in the 1800's and early 1900's. As long as you are conserving what we have I don't care if its a cow, goat, chicken, whale, elephant, or whatever other animal people use to feed themselves and their families.
What the Sea Shepherds are attempting to do is project their own opinions about animals onto other people, and that is a classic liberal way to go about something. They don't like something so no one else should be able to do it. They should lose their flag status for their actions along with any support because they are boarding other flagged vessels, attempting to cause loss of life, and overall are not fit to be operating on the open ocean for their own sake. 200 years ago they would be blown out of the water, and the rules of the sea would have taken care of them. Now everyone is too soft to put them in their place. To top it off they have their own TV show so they are constantly trying to up the ante to keep people tuned in. Someone is going to die out there. Its just a matter of time. My bets are on the SS crew but if they manage to prop fowl one of the Japanese boats...that boat could get stuck in a storm or ice flow.
You'll notice they steer clear of the French Navy.
M_P
Yes that is an awesome one. I remember when I first read about that back when it happened. http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/archive/index.php/t-15715.html
Finally, we find out who the French will stand up to.
Ridge_Runner_5
01-08-10, 20:27
More than likely they had just enough supplies for themselves, and didnt want to have to deal with dozens upon dozens of prisoners to feed. :p
FromMyColdDeadHand
01-09-10, 00:57
More than likely they had just enough supplies for themselves, and didnt want to have to deal with dozens upon dozens of prisoners to feed. :p
Feed them whale meat.
citizensoldier16
01-09-10, 10:00
Just watched the video. The hippies definitely rammed the whaling ship. Reasons:
1) Propwash behind the "stealth boat" indicate it was underway. The wash is straight, which indicates no attempt at evasive action.
2) There is a moment when the camera pans to directly behind the Maur vessel. Notice the lack of propwash, yet the vessel is still obviously moving. This tells me that the Maru was undertaking a hard-to-port evasive action.
Maru: evasive action.
Hippies: no evasive action.
Anyone else notice the black flag on the hippie boat? Skull and Crossbones?! :confused:
yeah there logo is very pirate esc.
variablebinary
01-09-10, 10:42
FWIW, if I were in Japan, I would eat some whale in a heartbeat.
A member over on LF posted this (about Whale Wars), but it echos my feelings on the matter:
"I never understood these treehugger ****s, animals exist for 3 reasons folks
1.)FOOD
2.)To carry my shit
3.)To bite mother****ers when instructed to do so."
Gutshot John
01-09-10, 10:57
Wow...
And how many of you people eat whale meat or use whale products?
Thanks to the anti-whaling treaty you've got two countries out of all the ones on planet that still hunt whales commercially.
The staggering waste (not to mention illegal actions such as fishing in other nations' territorial waters) of Japanese fishermen is pretty shocking. I'm a hunter and all for killing critters but there has to be some limits on their actions.
My sense is that this is about the politics of "Sea Shepherd" more than a discussion that they have as much right as the Japanese to be there. Equating them to "terrorists" or "pirates" is absurd.
They certainly aren't PETA.
Wow...
And how many of you people eat whale meat or use whale products?
Thanks to the anti-whaling treaty you've got two countries out of all the ones on planet that still hunt whales commercially.
The staggering waste (not to mention illegal actions such as fishing in other nations' territorial waters) of Japanese fishermen is pretty shocking. I'm a hunter and all for killing critters but there has to be some limits on their actions.
My sense is that this is about the politics of "Sea Shepherd" more than a discussion that they have as much right as the Japanese to be there. Equating them to "terrorists" or "pirates" is absurd.
They certainly aren't PETA.
It does not matter whether I eat whale or use whale products. Other people do.
And the SS people do NOT have the right to be pirates. No one would be complaining if they were just sailing around down there minding their own business. But you know that is not what they are doing. Attacking other boats is not a right of the sea.
variablebinary
01-09-10, 11:04
Wow...
And how many of you people eat whale meat or use whale products?
The M4C Japanese and Inuit population is pretty low I assume, so I doubt there are many whale eaters.
However the fact is Japanese DO consume whale, and I don't think Whale Wars types have the right to ram Japanese ships.
The M4C Japanese and Inuit population is pretty low I assume, so I doubt there are many whale eaters.
However the fact is Japanese DO consume whale, and I don't think Whale Wars types have the right to ram Japanese ships.
And I believe the Icelanders and Norwegians also have a tradition of consuming whale.
Gutshot John
01-09-10, 11:10
It does not matter whether I eat whale or use whale products. Other people do.
People eat deer too, I hunt deer, but when the deer population drops they issue fewer tags. Who issues "tags" to the japanese? No one and so for all intents and purposes they are poaching what the rest of the world is trying to protect. The Japanese whale under the claim of "research" and not food, but that what they're there for. So the Japanese premise is from the start a lie.
If the Inuit tribes want to hunt whales as part of their religion, they should be allowed to do so. That commercial whaling is for profit and neither sport nor spiritual puts it in a whole other class.
I'm sorry but the notion that anything can be eaten to extinction is not proper wildlife management.
I have zero tolerance for poachers.
And the SS people do NOT have the right to be pirates. No one would be complaining if they were just sailing around down there minding their own business. But you know that is not what they are doing. Attacking other boats is not a right of the sea.
They are not pirates, check your definition. You'd be hard pressed to say that that itty-bitty star wars craft represents a physical threat to the Japanese vessel.
It's a joke to equate these people to piracy or terrorism and only decreases the credibility of the argument.
People eat deer too, I hunt deer, but when the deer population drops they issue fewer tags. Who issues "tags" to the japanese? No one and so for all intents and purposes they are poaching what the rest of the world is trying to protect. The Japanese whale under the claim of "research" and not food, but that what they're there for. So the Japanese premise is from the start a lie.
Again, show me how they are breaking any law?
If the Inuit tribes want to hunt whales as part of their religion, they should be allowed to do so. That commercial whaling is for profit and neither sport nor spiritual puts it in a whole other class.
I'm sorry but the notion that anything can be eaten to extinction is not proper wildlife management.
I have zero tolerance for poachers.
Check your facts! The above is one of the most ignorant statements there is in this thread. 700k minke whales and they are hunting less than 1000. That is not eating to extinction. The other minimal harvest of other species is also very small compared to the population size.
The Japanese are not poaching.
They are not pirates, check your definition. You'd be hard pressed to say that that itty-bitty star wars craft represents a physical threat to the Japanese vessel.
It's a joke to equate these people to piracy or terrorism and only decreases the credibility of the argument.
from dictionary.com from an entry based on random house dictionary
pi⋅ra⋅cy [pahy-ruh-see] Show IPA
–noun, plural -cies.
1. practice of a pirate; robbery or illegal violence at sea.
Throwing acid bombs and trying to foul the japs propellers is not illegal violence at sea? Who knows what else they have done -- I have not watched the stupid TV program.
You check YOUR definition.
Dude, you are usually a lot smarter than these posts appear to be.
Gutshot John
01-09-10, 11:24
Again, show me how they are breaking any law?
Breaking the law as in going to jail? No, but a worldwide ban on commercial whaling has existed since 1986. The Japanese skirt the ban by claiming it's for "reasearch purposes."
Check your facts! The above is one of the most ignorant statements there is in this thread. 700k minke whales and they are hunting less than 1000. That is not eating to extinction. The other minimal harvest of other species is also very small compared to the population size.
Since you clearly missed the point... the commercial ban was put into place as some whale populations had been cut by 95%.
Minke whales are not the only issue.
If they're only doing "research" why so many? If their actions were legal why the pretense of "reseach?"
The Japanese are not poaching.
They are far more akin to poachers than SS is to either pirates or terrorists.
That said a ban on whaling exists and virtually everyone but the japanese obeys it. If that's not poaching I don't know what is.
Dude, you are usually a lot smarter than these posts appear to be.
Funny I was going to say the same.
Gutshot John
01-09-10, 11:27
The irony here is that many people here got all offended with someone hunting a lion in Africa...LEGALLY and putting his own life at risk to do so.
But when some environmentalist group tries to save an equally magnificent creature in the wild from poachers (that face no danger at all) different rules apply.
Breaking the law as in going to jail? No, but a worldwide ban on commercial whaling has existed since 1986. The Japanese skirt the ban by claiming it's for "reasearch purposes."
AFAIK the Japanese are abiding by the terms of the IWC agreements.
Since you clearly missed the point... the commercial ban was put into place as some whale populations had been cut by 95%.
Minke whales are not the only issue.
I think you are missing the point. Greatly. Besides the fact that real research on populations does happen at the levels the japanese take whales, they are doing so in a sustainable way. The number of other species they take is very very low. Again, none of this is eating them to extinction.
And they seem to be doing so in accordance with international agreements.
If they're only doing "research" why so many? If their actions were legal why the pretense of "reseach?"
Compared to the number of whales they take very few. Reasonable levels to do population research and other sorts of research. The japanese are not whaling on a commercial level. 1000 or so whales is not a commercial level harvest.
Maybe their actions are legal BECAUSE it is research? No pretense needed.
Also, where do other nations get the authority to legally ban what the japanese do?
They are far more akin to poachers than SS is to either pirates or terrorists.
you've already been proven wrong by the dictionary on that.
That said a ban on whaling exists and virtually everyone but the japanese obeys it. If that's not poaching I don't know what is.
poach⋅ing [poh-ching] Show IPA
–noun
1. the illegal practice of trespassing on another's property to hunt or steal game without the landowner's permission.
2. any encroachment on another's property, rights, ideas, or the like.
Does not sound at all like what the Japanese are doing. Again, both for piracy and poaching the dictionary shows you are wrong.
The japanese I believe are in full accordance with the IWC agreements. And if they do not sign the agreements or agree to be bound then they have no obligation to obey it.
Most of the rest of the world wants to eliminate private ownership of firearms. Should we just go along with it?
Funny I was going to say the same.
The facts are not on your side.
The irony here is that many people here got all offended with someone hunting a lion in Africa...LEGALLY and putting his own life at risk to do so.
But when some environmentalist group tries to save an equally magnificent creature in the wild from poachers (that face no danger at all) different rules apply.
I have no problem with legal lion hunting nor with legal whale hunting. If it was illegal what the japanese are doing I think there would be more action taken against them at an international level than PR complaints and the SS pirates.
Gutshot John
01-09-10, 11:54
If it was illegal what the japanese are doing I think there would be more action taken against them at an international level than PR complaints and the SS pirates.
Why would you think that?
Given the number of illegal actions that any number of states take often that have more threatening implications for human lives (i.e. Iran's nuclear weapons program), why would you think that anyone is going to confront Japan over whaling?
These are the only people actually going out and actually they're putting their lives on the line to enforce the ban with no pay. I don't agree with all their politics but we'd be all better served if we had their conviction.
I have no problem with whaling as a general principle so long as strict controls are in place, something beyond current maritime law. If you want to go out in a dinghy and a harpoon to get yourself a whale, I'd have no problem with you buying a tag to get whatever whale you want. If someone was going to starve without whale meat I wouldn't even have a problem with doing it illegally. We're not talking about either case here. We're talking about large commercial ships that are essentially seaborne factories that operate under the pretense of legal research. There is no "sport" involved.
And I believe the Icelanders and Norwegians also have a tradition of consuming whale.
yes we do, and its quite good actually.:D
Gutshot John
01-09-10, 12:07
I said "two" nations still whale, thank you for correcting that I missed it by 1. The other two-hundred nations of the world don't hunt whale. That's as world-wide consensus as you're ever going to get.
Japanese (and other) whalers are at least engaged in poaching, and if you're going to apply the label of "pirate" or "terrorist" to SS you should apply it to both parties.
This is clearly about the politics of SS more so than any general concern or interest in whaling. No one here gives a rip one way or the other whether whale meat is available to three whole nations.
By all means set-up a regime that's enforced for whaling so its regulated like any other ethical hunt is regulated but doing so under the pretense of research is a convenient lie and everyone here knows it.
Also, I think I like Alex V's idea of agreeing to disagreee:)
-The Japanese have signed a treaty that limits how many whales they can hunt
-The Japanese are either fishing for research, or just plain fishing for consumption.
Don't forget that possibly only a small portion of the whale is researched, thus leaving huge amounts of meat left with no other purpose than to feed people.
-The Japanese are following the laws of the treaty that was approved by many other nations.
It may appear morally wrong to some, but everything they are doing has been approved and accepted, although not by all. In my opinion, nothing illegal is being done, and the SS still remain pirates by dictionary definition. They remind me of a small chihuahua barking up a much bigger dog and annoying the crap out of him. Eventually the big dog is going to lose it, and will have every right in the world to do so.
If the SS keep knocking like they are, someone is going to answer.
Why would you think that?
Given the number of illegal actions that any number of states take often that have more threatening implications for human lives (i.e. Iran's nuclear weapons program), why would you think that anyone is going to confront Japan over whaling?
come now. You are being absurd and it is not helping your argument. For one, the rest of the world does confront Iran -- they get sanctions passed, and they certainly make a big deal of it.
Secondly, I did not recommend nations go to war with Japan over whaling. But if it were truly illegal (which it is not) then other nations who care about this would be taking more binding action. Kicking Japan out of the IWC, putting forth UN motions and probably putting actions through some international court.
None of that sort of thing is happening. A few PR on camera moments by officials and then the SS pirate nuts.
These are the only people actually going out and actually they're putting their lives on the line to enforce the ban with no pay. I don't agree with all their politics but we'd be all better served if we had their conviction.
They are pirates and terrorists. There is no "ban" on whaling that is in any way legally binding that Japan is breaking. The only conviction they need is one that puts them in jail.
I have no problem with whaling as a general principle so long as strict controls are in place, something beyond current maritime law.
There are strict controls in place and they are being followed.
If you want to go out in a dinghy and a harpoon to get yourself a whale, I'd have no problem with you buying a tag to get whatever whale you want. If someone was going to starve without whale meat I wouldn't even have a problem with doing it illegally. We're not talking about either case here. We're talking about large commercial ships that are essentially seaborne factories that operate under the pretense of legal research. There is no "sport" involved.
No one claimed it was sport.
GSJ -- you keep posting based on emotion and have not refuted any points made against you.
Gutshot John
01-09-10, 12:16
Also, I think I like Alex V's idea of agreeing to disagreee:)
-The Japanese have signed a treaty that limits how many whales they can hunt
-The Japanese are either fishing for research, or just plain fishing for consumption.
Don't forget that possibly only a small portion of the whale is researched, thus leaving huge amounts of meat left with no other purpose than to feed people.
-The Japanese are following the laws of the treaty that was approved by many other nations.
It may appear morally wrong to some, but everything they are doing has been approved and accepted, although not by all. In my opinion, nothing illegal is being done, and the SS still remain pirates by dictionary definition. They remind me of a small chihuahua barking up a much bigger dog and annoying the crap out of him. Eventually the big dog is going to lose it, and will have every right in the world to do so.
If the SS keep knocking like they are, someone is going to answer.
Incorrect on almost all counts. Please use google.
http://www.bc.edu/bc_org/avp/law/lwsch/journals/bciclr/25_2/07_FMS.htm
http://www.losangeleschronicle.com/articles/view/79198
There is no piracy involved. You might as well call them "nazis" and get it over with.
FromMyColdDeadHand
01-09-10, 12:18
I just want to be perfectly clear; I have been and always will be against poaching whale. Whale is much better grillled.
The Sea Shepherd's are engaged in a PR battle, to which they seem tone deaf and more interested in making themselves feel useful. If they just ran their zodiacs between the whalers and the whales and took a harpoon casualty every once in awhile, I think that would be noble. That's putting your ass where your mouth is. This prop fouling, gay boarding party, whining to the media, getting lost in the fog strategy makes them look like tossers.
I said "two" nations still whale, thank you for correcting that I missed it by 1.
The other two-hundred nations of the world don't hunt whale. That's as world-wide consensus as you're ever going to get.
Most of the rest of the world does not have a RKBA either... There seems to be a worldwide consensus on firearms ownership as well. Are you going to abide by that?
Japanese (and other) whalers are at least engaged in poaching, and if you're going to apply the label of "pirate" or "terrorist" to SS you should apply it to both parties.
If it fits, but it doesn't. Japan is not poaching and the SS are behaving like pirates. This was shown through simple dictionary definitions.
This is clearly about the politics of SS more so than any general concern or interest in whaling. No one here gives a rip one way or the other whether whale meat is available to three whole nations.
By all means set-up a regime that's enforced for whaling so its regulated like any other ethical hunt is regulated but doing so under the pretense of research is a convenient lie and everyone here knows it.
This has nothing to do with the politics of the SS (how appropriate an acronym). It has everything to do with their actions and behavior.
Incorrect on almost all counts. Please use google.
http://www.bc.edu/bc_org/avp/law/lwsch/journals/bciclr/25_2/07_FMS.htm
http://www.losangeleschronicle.com/articles/view/79198
There is no piracy involved. You might as well call them "nazis" and get it over with.
There is piracy involved. It was shown to you in a simple dictionary definition.
Gutshot John
01-09-10, 12:21
GSJ -- you keep posting based on emotion and have not refuted any points made against you.
What points? That the Japanese are in keeping with the letter and spirit of the law? I can't help if you won't use common sense.
If you think the Japanese are acting ethically than I've got a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you.
I don't care what your opinions on whaling are, but your defense of Japanese actions has more to do with your dislike of sea shepherd than any belief in the Japanese so contrary to your above posts it's you that's posting based on emotion.
Gutshot John
01-09-10, 12:25
There is piracy involved. It was shown to you in a simple dictionary definition.
Really? So why aren't they being prosecuted for piracy when they return to port? You don't think the US enforces anti-piracy laws? If you think they're really pirates than you have to believe that the Japanese are violating the whaling ban as well as their agreements. If you can't see that than you're clearly applying a double-standard and hiding behind a dictionary.
Do I agree that the guys on SS are douchebags? Yep, but to equate it to piracy which has a self-interest profit motive is more than a stretch and at least they're only putting their own asses on the line. Calling them terrorists when no one is actually terrorized by horrific violence cheapens the term and is becoming the 21st century equivalent of Godwin's law.
To claim however that the Japanese are good actors is to strain credulity.
you cant justify it any way you try. terrorism is terrorism
Gutshot John
01-09-10, 12:45
you cant justify it any way you try. terrorism is terrorism
This is terrorism.
http://images.nymag.com/images/news/02/03/911anniversary/wtc4_11_200.jpg
This is not.
http://www.japantimes.co.jp/images/photos2010/nn20100107x2a.jpg
Let's try to keep the debate on the planet earth.
Belmont31R
01-09-10, 12:48
What points? That the Japanese are in keeping with the letter and spirit of the law? I can't help if you won't use common sense.
If you think the Japanese are acting ethically than I've got a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you.
I don't care what your opinions on whaling are, but your defense of Japanese actions has more to do with your dislike of sea shepherd than any belief in the Japanese so contrary to your above posts it's you that's posting based on emotion.
They are acting ethically.
Every human has a right to feed and defend himself or others. Whales have been hunted and killed for perhaps thousands of years. 2010 is no different.
I have no issues with the Japanese taking whatever action they deem fit in this situation because Sea Shepherd is attempting to block them from a basic human right. The Japanese are not over hunting any whale populations. The species they hunt are quite abundant.
Again this boils down to radicals wanting to project their own opinions onto other people, and keep them from doing something humans have done in all recorded history.
John_Wayne777
01-09-10, 12:52
I think this one has gone on long enough...so I'm harpooning it. :D
so ramming a boat into another boat in the middle of the ocean isnt terrorism.
there both acts of terrorism just on diffrent scales. now if you cant see whats wrong with thier actions then you are just as ignorant and lost as they are.
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