View Full Version : BCM?
I have been reading quite a bit about Bravo Company products (lowers, uppers, & BCGs), are they a new company? Are they a contractor for the DOD? I know that Colt, LMT, Bushmaster, Sabre make Milspec guns & parts. Who makes BCM uppers & lowers? I have not seen any complete guns being sold by Bravo Company; are they just a parts manufacturer? I also read in a previous post that many thought that their quality was on par w/ LMT. Is this based on real analysis, or just sales fluff?
RancidSumo
01-10-10, 18:17
I don't think that you will find anyone here with a negative opinion of BCM. At least that was my experience when I was looking to get one.
Bushmaster is not "milspec." I highly recommend you take a look at the chart put together by rob_s, as it compares all the major brands, including BCM: http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=pwswheghNQsEuEhjFwPrgTA
I have looked at the chart many times, however Bushmaster did make a limited number of rifles for the DOD. So those rifles were milspec, or the contracting officer waved the technical requirements due to urgent and compelling need (Desert Storm). I still have not heard any good rational reasons why there is such a love fest for BCM on this site. I guess I'm baffled why someone would buy one of thier lowers or uppers for the same money that would get you a LMT or Sabre Defence poduct.
RancidSumo
01-10-10, 18:30
You mean other than the fact that it is completely mil-spec according to the chart and the fact that they have great customer service and that they aren't much more expensive than a BM? I guess other than those there really isn't any reason to get one...
So, who makes the BCM lower? LMT? LAR? CMT? They do not sell complete guns, but the charts shows that they do (Ave price). Are they a manufacturer of lowers & uppers like LMT & Sabre, or just a third party assembler?
Excellent customer service is important and LMT also has excellent customer service. I’m sure by the posts that some folks really like this company, which is great. However before I plunk down my hard earned dollars I wanted to know more about them.
RancidSumo
01-10-10, 18:45
I am sure someone will correct me if I am wrong but I am pretty sure that they manufacture their receivers, barrels, and bolts but I am not sure about the LPKs. As for a complete rifle- http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=16M_RIFLE&reference=/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi%3Fsearch%3Daction%26keywords%3D%26searchstart%3D9%26template%3DPDGCommTemplates/FullNav/SearchResult.html%26category%3DBCOM
Simply put they are boringly reliable.
Cant really speak upon the lpk but the bcg and barrel are top notch and both are individually tested and have to uphold certain requirements before leaving the factory.
One of the reasons they are so highly sought after is because of the affordability of their products. Why pay $1200 for an LMT or Colt when for $200 less you can get the exact same quality and performance.
The definition of milspec is very subjective now days due to illegitimate marketing campaigns over the years.
Have a BCM 16" Middy and love it.
Also, Paul and his group are stand up guys. I was seeking a donation of a regular charging handle for a rifle to benefit a deceased forum member's family and he said he would send a BCG. That kind of action has put BCM into a company I happily buy from and advertise for.
Have a BCM 16" Middy and love it.
Also, Paul and his group are stand up guys. I was seeking a donation of a regular charging handle for a rifle to benefit a deceased forum member's family and he said he would send a BCG. That kind of action has put BCM into a company I happily buy from and advertise for.
A member on here? I have some parts laying around, let me know if I can help.
I can't speak for Bushmaster's nearly two decade old DOD contract, but I can tell you from first hand experience that BM does not deliver "mil-spec" weapons to the public. Keep doing some research and I think you will answer your own questions about BCM. I currently have a LMT and am very happy with it. If/when I get another M4 type carbine it will either be Colt or BCM (and I lean toward BCM).
RogerinTPA
01-10-10, 20:12
I have looked at the chart many times, however Bushmaster did make a limited number of rifles for the DOD. So those rifles were milspec, or the contracting officer waved the technical requirements due to urgent and compelling need (Desert Storm). I still have not heard any good rational reasons why there is such a love fest for BCM on this site. I guess I'm baffled why someone would buy one of thier lowers or uppers for the same money that would get you a LMT or Sabre Defence poduct.
That is completely false. BM has never supplied the US Military with M-4/M-16s.
The weapons were for export to the Georgian Army, which were captured and burned by the invading Russian Forces, not for the US Military. It may be the only account on record were Bushmaster was forced to build to a higher standard.:p
As others have said, there is plenty of information on the net about BCM. Rest assured that you have come to the right place for firearms advice. This is a no BS forum filled with people that use their weapons for serious purposes, which is why I come here for advice. If a company receives praise across the board on this forum it's a clue that it is a good company to deal with and makes a top notch product.
I have a BCM midlength and an LMT M4 clone. If BCM would have offered what I wanted, when I wanted it, then I would have two BCMs. Not to say that there is anything wrong with my LMT, I just could have gotten more for less.
IMHO BCM has brought a new level of quality in both product and service to the firearms industry.
*Cue members that shoot thousands of rounds per week through their BCMs to chime in* :D
I cant say enough about my BCM, fast shipping great service and a lifetime warranty.
A member on here? I have some parts laying around, let me know if I can help.
Different forum, regional one for New England. Thank you for the offer. The rifle is done and is now being raffled off.
parishioner
01-10-10, 22:48
This should keep you busy for a while...https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=18946
So, who makes the BCM lower? LMT? LAR? CMT? They do not sell complete guns, but the charts shows that they do (Ave price). Are they a manufacturer of lowers & uppers like LMT & Sabre, or just a third party assembler?
Excellent customer service is important and LMT also has excellent customer service. I’m sure by the posts that some folks really like this company, which is great. However before I plunk down my hard earned dollars I wanted to know more about them.
Paul sources his components from military suppliers and good machine shops that will build to his exact specifications every time. For instance when he went searching for a supplier for gas keys he submitted requests for samples from multiple suppliers then the silly bastard went out and purchased a tool to check hardness. He found out of the many samples, only a couple of the manufacturers actually produced the product to the correct specified hardness. Yeah, there is a reason a lot of people like BCM gear, and that's because it is top notch. It also carries a lifetime warranty, and it's not cut rate bullshit like Bushmaster.
lawusmc0844
01-11-10, 00:00
+1
I went with my BFH middy because I want my rifles to be as close as possible to the FN M16A4 and Colt M4 that I've been issued. My BCM, with the few obvious exceptions meets the TDP and then exceeds it with the cold hammer forged barrel and midlength gas system. You don't buy a name with BCM, you buy quality at a good price...
They do not sell complete guns, but the charts shows that they do (Ave price).
THEY do not sell complete guns, but you can get a complete lower from them, and a complete upper from them. Voila, complete rifle.
Also, you can just get a complete rifle: http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=16M_RIFLE&reference=/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi%3Fsearch%3Daction%26keywords%3Drifle%26searchstart%3D9%26template%3DPDGCommTemplates/FullNav/SearchResult.html
Hence, their place on the chart. If you've researched enough to offhandedly tag it as a "love-fest," line-of-sight thinking indicates that you would have also seen the reasons for it.
Their products meet or surpass the M4 TDP.
They make it in enough quantity that it's available to the buyer.
They inform you ahead of time if it isn't available.
They email you when it becomes available, if you sign up for that.
Their bottom-line pricing is pretty damned good.
They provide first-rate customer service in support of their products.
I don't think that there are too many here that would tell you to absolutely buy BCM instead of LMT, as LMT is also noted as a manufacturer/seller of merit. That said, in terms of getting a no-shit hard-working gun for an excellent price-point, BCM and Daniel Defense seem to be the best answers for a first-time buyer who is trying to buy right the first time out of the box, or for somebody who wants to get a good base rifle with which to build the gun they truly want.
BCM is not The Way to go, but they're a damned good option to exercise. I do not own a BCM rifle, but I've used their parts and have shot the BCM guns of others that do the same gig I do, and would have no problem whatsoever buying a BCM gun if my Noveske went tits-up.
But then, hopefully somebody would have a large bag standing by to catch the monkeys flying outta my ass, because it's a good chance that the two events would happen on the same day.
That is completely false. BM has never supplied the US Military with M-4/M-16s.
The weapons were for export to the Georgian Army, which were captured and burned by the invading Russian Forces, not for the US Military. It may be the only account on record were Bushmaster was forced to build to a higher standard.:p
I was wondering who the manufacturer was in that debacle. HK got caught with it's pants down, too. H&K G36s were found in cases, too. F$#@kin' lucky Russ!! That would never happen to me! :p
As far as I know there is no proof that BM ever made rifles for the U.S military, especially during Desert Storm as we all had plenty of weapons to go around.
They could have been for a foreign military contract or any entity within the DOD.
Even if they were, Bushamster has a proven track record of being inconsistent and cutting corners.
I have looked at the chart many times, however Bushmaster did make a limited number of rifles for the DOD. So those rifles were milspec, or the contracting officer waved the technical requirements due to urgent and compelling need (Desert Storm). I still have not heard any good rational reasons why there is such a love fest for BCM on this site. I guess I'm baffled why someone would buy one of thier lowers or uppers for the same money that would get you a LMT or Sabre Defence poduct.
"THEY do not sell complete guns, but you can get a complete lower from them, and a complete upper from them. Voila, complete rifle.
Hence, their place on the chart."
Since BCM does not manufacture complete rifles, why would they be listed on the chart at all? Why not list other custom AR builders since they actually sell complete rifles? BCM is the only "seller of assemblies" listed as a manufacturer of complete rifles on the chart.
Did anyone else notice that Knights Armament is not listed? What about Clark Custom? Fulton Armory?
So from what I have read on this forum;
1) BCM sells great parts and assemblies that they have sourced from other manufacturers at good prices.
2) They have great customer service.
3) They make nothing, but are listed as a full line rifle mfg on the M4 Chart.
"THEY do not sell complete guns, but you can get a complete lower from them, and a complete upper from them. Voila, complete rifle.
Hence, their place on the chart."
Since BCM does not manufacture complete rifles, why would they be listed on the chart at all? Why not list other custom AR builders since they actually sell complete rifles? BCM is the only "seller of assemblies" listed as a manufacturer of complete rifles on the chart.
Did anyone else notice that Knights Armament is not listed? What about Clark Custom? Fulton Armory?
So from what I have read on this forum;
1) BCM sells great parts and assemblies that they have sourced from other manufacturers at good prices.
2) They have great customer service.
3) They make nothing, but are listed as a full line rifle mfg on the M4 Chart.
Why the antagonism / trolling undertones?
Simple answer for you: forget BCM and buy that Bushmaster.
http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r29/l_jimenez30/zzz_not-this-shit-again.jpg
Why the antagonism / trolling undertones?
Simple answer for you: forget BCM and buy that Bushmaster.
My thoughts exactly.
I have been reading quite a bit about Bravo Company products (lowers, uppers, & BCGs), are they a new company? Are they a contractor for the DOD? I know that Colt, LMT, Bushmaster, Sabre make Milspec guns & parts. Who makes BCM uppers & lowers? I have not seen any complete guns being sold by Bravo Company; are they just a parts manufacturer? I also read in a previous post that many thought that their quality was on par w/ LMT. Is this based on real analysis, or just sales fluff?
Oh man, where di you get your info??
BM (for instance) is "Mil-Spec" in that their parts will fit into a Colt. That is about where ends.
BCM has been around for several years. They are a specialty shop building some of the finest combat guns on the planet. The owner (Paul) is also on of the most friendly/knowledgeable guys in the industry.
C4
I have looked at the chart many times, however Bushmaster did make a limited number of rifles for the DOD. So those rifles were milspec, or the contracting officer waved the technical requirements due to urgent and compelling need (Desert Storm). I still have not heard any good rational reasons why there is such a love fest for BCM on this site. I guess I'm baffled why someone would buy one of thier lowers or uppers for the same money that would get you a LMT or Sabre Defence poduct.
There are many reasons why someone would buy a BCM over an LMT or SD.
Some do not like the fact that LMT uses a MIM gas key. Some don't like the weight of the SD middy barrels. Some don't like the cost of either.
You can get into a BCM (buying the upper, lower, BCG, CH and HG's) for around $950.
C4
"THEY do not sell complete guns, but you can get a complete lower from them, and a complete upper from them. Voila, complete rifle.
Hence, their place on the chart."
Since BCM does not manufacture complete rifles, why would they be listed on the chart at all? Why not list other custom AR builders since they actually sell complete rifles? BCM is the only "seller of assemblies" listed as a manufacturer of complete rifles on the chart.
Did anyone else notice that Knights Armament is not listed? What about Clark Custom? Fulton Armory?
So from what I have read on this forum;
1) BCM sells great parts and assemblies that they have sourced from other manufacturers at good prices.
2) They have great customer service.
3) They make nothing, but are listed as a full line rifle mfg on the M4 Chart.
The reason why they were added to the chart is because we built some (with BCM's consent). No dealer is doing that with the companies you listed.
The chart is based off the current TDP (which is current .Mil profiled weapons). KAC (for instance) does not really follow the .Mil patterned guns. So while they make excellent weapons that exceed the Govt's standards, they would not do well on the chart as they do not line up.
1. Yes, BCM orders parts to their spec. Then inspecs them in house. They also complete High-Pressure testing and MP testing in house for their barrels and bolts.
Colt (for instance) does NOT make everything in house either. They outsource some things and then inspect them in house for quality.
2. Excellent CS.
3. Most all of your "big" AR manufacturers make NOTHING in house (FYI).
Why you ask? Because the cost of the machines to make everything is off the chart.
C4
I can't speak for Bushmaster's nearly two decade old DOD contract, but I can tell you from first hand experience that BM does not deliver "mil-spec" weapons to the public. Keep doing some research and I think you will answer your own questions about BCM. I currently have a LMT and am very happy with it. If/when I get another M4 type carbine it will either be Colt or BCM (and I lean toward BCM).
I agree with this. I looked into Government military contracts for the last 5 years, and the only contract for actual US military weapons from Bushmaster was a contract let in Dec 07 for 5,631 M16A3s for the US Navy. This contract was cancelled a month later and subsequently given to Sabre defense.
On the other hand, Bushmaster has sold a crapload of rifles to other contries through FMS (Foreign Military Sales) contracts. However, since the receiving country determines what specs they want, mil-spec is not necessarily a player.
spamsammich
01-11-10, 15:09
http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=44790
Great link w/ lots of BCM info - Thx
For what it's worth, I had a Bushmaster Dissipator about 15 years ago and it was an absolute dog. Nothing but malfunctions. It soured me on ever owning another Bushmaster.
I'd buy a BCM in a heartbeat.
"THEY do not sell complete guns, but you can get a complete lower from them, and a complete upper from them. Voila, complete rifle.
Hence, their place on the chart."
Since BCM does not manufacture complete rifles, why would they be listed on the chart at all? Why not list other custom AR builders since they actually sell complete rifles? BCM is the only "seller of assemblies" listed as a manufacturer of complete rifles on the chart.
Keep in mind that when a manufacture sells a complete rifle rather then separate lower and upper, you pay a 10% (something like that) federal excise tax.
So why pay the extra 10% when you get the complete upper and complete lower individually? Install the upper and lower together and what do you know?! You have a complete AR!
That is how I built my new LMT 16" Defender standard carbine w/ SopMod.
I still have not found who makes the lowers & uppers for BCM?
Julius Carbinius
01-12-10, 18:51
Peddler?
Mods: enough of this please.
That is how I built my new LMT 16" Defender standard carbine w/ SopMod.
I still have not found who makes the lowers & uppers for BCM?
Hm...does anyone know?
Either way, their products are top notch quality. No doubt about it
dookie1481
01-12-10, 22:46
Keep in mind that when a manufacture sells a complete rifle rather then separate lower and upper, you pay a 10% (something like that) federal excise tax.
So why pay the extra 10% when you get the complete upper and complete lower individually? Install the upper and lower together and what do you know?! You have a complete AR!
11% I believe.
Jay
Before you try and knock about saving some money on the complete rifle, remember that money helps fund a lot of different things. The money doesn't go into a general fund, but rather one to put back into the outdoors.
If you have ever shot on a public shooting range in a National Forest, that was paid for with money collected in part from rifle sales.
That is how I built my new LMT 16" Defender standard carbine w/ SopMod.
I still have not found who makes the lowers & uppers for BCM?
I know who does. One of the better "finishers" in the country. Also a company that FN buys parts and pieces from.
C4
Well? Please share with the masses.
spamsammich
01-13-10, 15:19
Well? Please share with the masses.
I'm sure if Paul felt it was appropriate to share his supplier list with the masses, he would do so. Does any manufacturing house readily share their supply chain with the public?
Of course, you are right, I did not want him to release any trade secrets or proprietary information.
However, I only wanted to know who made BCM lowers & uppers (ie..LMT, CMT, LAR, etc.). This is info that is readily available on our site for most AR15 lower receivers, except BCM.
Well? Please share with the masses.
Sorry no joy. I do not share other companies and friends trade secrets.
You will just have to take my word for it that they come from a quality company.
C4
I'm sure if Paul felt it was appropriate to share his supplier list with the masses, he would do so. Does any manufacturing house readily share their supply chain with the public?
Right you are and no companies shares where they get parts from.
C4
spamsammich
01-13-10, 16:02
Of course, you are right, I did not want him to release any trade secrets or proprietary information.
However, I only wanted to know who made BCM lowers & uppers (ie..LMT, CMT, LAR, etc.). This is info that is readily available on our site for most AR15 lower receivers, except BCM.
I'm sure that information will eventually become public, but I for one am in no rush to know as long as people like Pat Rogers, USMC03, etc continue to endorse the product. I hope I'm not coming across as being smarmy, that is not my intent. I cannot comment on the quality of these lowers, as I have yet to purchase one, but every BCM branded product I have owned has been of very high quality and good value (by my standards). When disposable income exists again (a big "if" unfortunately) a BCM lower is on my short list of lowers to pick up from C4.
While I too would be interested in knowing the "who," I am completely satisfied that my two BCM uppers (a 16" Middy and a new 14.5" M4 w/A2X) are as good as anything out there.
I presume there are non-disclosure agreements with the suppliers.
Ga Shooter
01-13-10, 16:13
I will just throw my thoughts into this. I am a fromer FFL holder and have sold and used many AR15s and the 2 BCMs that I built getting parts from both Paul and Grant have been the nicest I have ever owned. I also was at a 3 gun match this past weekend and saw every rifle go down with exception of 1 Colt a Daewoo and my BCM that I took. I am very happy with their product and highly recommend them.
I presume there are non-disclosure agreements with the suppliers.
When dealing with big $$$$ projects in the mfg industry, it has been my experience that you cannot even start the quoting process w/out one...
No worries, I'm good with that. I am a government contracting officer by trade and do understand the relevance of proprietary information and the protection of trade secrets.
It was simply another case of; "inquiring minds want to know"…lol.
SWATcop556
01-14-10, 00:46
No worries, I'm good with that. I am a government contracting officer by trade and do understand the relevance of proprietary information and the protection of trade secrets.
It was simply another case of; "inquiring minds want to know"…lol.
Agreed. I would also like to know but , like you I have to live with and I'm happy with the "trust us it's GTG" answer.
The people I trust in this industry (Grant, Jeff, Travis, Robb, Chris) have no issues so I'm GTG as well.
Besides everyone knows that no one drinks more BCM koolaid than I do. :cool:
The uppers have the same foundary mark that I've seen on Bushmaster and DPMS receivers.
Belmont31R
01-14-10, 12:04
The uppers have the same foundary mark that I've seen on Bushmaster and DPMS receivers.
There are only a few places that make unfinished AR receivers. Then its up to each company to do the mill work. Its simply too costly for each company to operate their own forge. The companies doing the forging make tons of other AL forgings, and AR receivers are actually a pretty small portion of their business.
For instance...Cardinal Forge: We currently serve the firearms, aerospace, recreational vehicle, automotive aftermarket, off road equipment, and motorcycle markets.
I don't care where Paul gets his parts from. There is not a single AR company out there that does everything in house. Colt is huge, and they don't even do it. As the end user I only care about the final product not each step of how what Im holding in my hands came to be. Its either a GTG product or its not. I don't need to know how many hours it took to mill a part. I don't need to know what company Ive never heard of did the machining on one part.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.