View Full Version : Every time I shoot something in the Head?
geminidglocker
01-13-10, 18:12
I just had to kill a Feral Cat, I issued a round to it's head but it still flopped about. Is there a better way? I killed a Beaver once, and it took a square skull shot, yet continued to flop about. I have to go back outside now and make sure the wild cat is dead. I expect that I will find the dead carcass of the animal, but what if I don't? I know my aim was true, and I watched its brains dissapear, but the amount of thrasing scared me. Anyone else been there?:confused:
geminidglocker
01-13-10, 18:22
It's done, my shot was true, and I will get rid' of the dead cat in the morning. It hurt to have to take this cats life, but atleast I did it clean. It now lies at the bottom of my Porch steps, dead as a doornail. I still feel kinda' bad. Last thing I killed was a different Feral Cat.
I know from watching the big game shows on TV that deer, big horn, and other game drop like a sack of potatos when you hit them in the heart.
Effectively blowing a 5.56 sized hole through a cat's heart is sure to stop the blood flow to it's brain.
even if you do a through and through of the thoasic cavity it won't be oxygenating blood and I would bet it would take about 30 seconds for it to expire.
PRGGodfather
01-13-10, 18:34
Just nerve twitching. Movement does not mean the same as life. It was dead, and you killed it clean. Remnant muscle electricity...
geminidglocker
01-13-10, 18:36
Yeah, no worries. I hit it with a 124gr. JHP. 9mm. It is dead, and all of my questions have been answered. Thank God for dependable Carry Loads.
I don't think I could kill even a Feral cat. That being said I understand the danger they can pose. Thanks for doing it cleanly.
There is an SOB around here who seems to take pleasure in not being humane. Sometime soon he is going to be on the receiving end of some no so humane treatment if he keeps up.
geminidglocker
01-13-10, 18:45
I don't think I could kill even a Feral cat. That being said I understand the danger they can pose. Thanks for doing it cleanly.
There is an SOB around here who seems to take pleasure in not being humane. Sometime soon he is going to be on the receiving end of some no so humane treatment if he keeps up.
Good point, the fact is that around here there are a lot of feral Cats. I live out in "Farm Country" If it was your cat it would not even be here. This was a definite "Lost Soul" cat, It pained me to have to plug it but I did anyhow, it looked absolutely Rabid. I will take Precauations when extricating its corpse from my yard.
Good point, the fact is that around here there are a lot of feral Cats. I live out in "Farm Country" If it was yor cat it would not even be here. This was a definite "Lost Soul" cat, It pained me to have to plug it but I did anyhow, it looked absolutely Rabid. I will take Precauations when extricating its corpse from my yard.
Same type of area here. Sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do and I can't fault you for that. But this jerk just takes pleasure in it. I ran into him once while rounding up one of my cats that got out. He said good thing I found it when I did because he was going to get his Bow. I won't repeat my statement to him but lets say that he and I don't get along.
Good point, the fact is that around here there are a lot of feral Cats. I live out in "Farm Country" If it was yor cat it would not even be here. This was a definite "Lost Soul" cat, It pained me to have to plug it but I did anyhow, it looked absolutely Rabid. I will take Precauations when extricating its corpse from my yard.
If you live far enough out that calling animal services isn't an option then I'd say you did the right thing, as long as like you said you did it clean and quick. Sucks to have to though.
But this jerk just takes pleasure in it. I ran into him once while rounding up one of my cats that got out. He said good thing I found it when I did because he was going to get his Bow. I won't repeat my statement to him but lets say that he and I don't get along.
Did your cat have a collar on? I mean if it didn't you still had a right to be pissed but if it did--oh damn, I would have been through the roof. Yeah, I don't think me and your neighbor would be friends either.
Did your cat have a collar on? I mean if it didn't you still had a right to be pissed but if it did--oh damn, I would have been through the roof. Yeah, I don't think me and your neighbor would be friends either.
Yep he had a collar. I made it pretty clear to him that is anything ever happened to my animals then something similar would happen to him.
I'll never forget the camping trip when I was 12 when one of the boys killed a mouse with a sling shot and started bragging about it. My father, and my father's friend made him eat it.
Unless it's rabid, don't kill what you can't eat. You can live trap an animal if you have a problem with it. I know that I'm sounding harsh, but this is the way I was raised, and I grew up in "farmville" too. My fiance is also a vet tech, and has to put animals down on a weekly basis, so I understand the problems that come with feral cats. The carry disease, and basically can destroy entire eco-systems, so I can empathize with taking this animals life, I just wouldn't do it myself.
geminidglocker
01-14-10, 05:07
The only reason I noticed this particular animal was that it was making strange sounds at my wimpy little housecat, I was afraid that they would get in a fight and that my cat, Henrietta, would get hurt. She's a big softy, and I doubt she would fair well in a fight with a Feral Cat. I'm not trying to justify my actions, yet they were justifiable. I got rid of the Carcass, buried it, but that nasty cat will haunt me forever. I'm no good at killin' things that look like cats. Atleast this was a Zombie Cat.:(
It's a shame that it did'nt have a home and stuff. I guess that's just the way it goes when you live out in the sticks. I'm bummed, but I'll get over it I suppose. I too am one of those folks that says, "If you can't eat it, don't kill it."
Unless it's rabid, don't kill what you can't eat. You can live trap an animal if you have a problem with it. I know that I'm sounding harsh, but this is the way I was raised, and I grew up in "farmville" too. My fiance is also a vet tech, and has to put animals down on a weekly basis, so I understand the problems that come with feral cats. The carry disease, and basically can destroy entire eco-systems, so I can empathize with taking this animals life, I just wouldn't do it myself.
Not very realistic. Trapping is far more harmful to an animal and has much higher stress levels than simply killing it.
Human shooting is one of the least stressful manner to put an animal down. If it needs to be done this is about the best option for a wild animal. It's also less risky for the person doing the job.
A "pet" or other animal used to contact can be handled with minimum stress so gassing is reasonable.
I have killed many introduced animals. some nights into the hundreds. I don't enjoy killing anything but I would rather do it than bait them or trap them. It is better for them, better for the enviroment and humane.
Guess I've been hunting too long. Varminting is a passion and a good game warden buddy and I do a lot of thinning for depredation of grackles and red-wings for farmers, not to mention pigs, yotes, bobcats, jack rabbits, etc when they start to overrun certain areas of the ranch I hunt. Not gonna sugar coat anything...we let them lay. We do eat the choice piggies though.
Have dispatched several nasty feral cats & don't think anything about it...gonna have a problem real quick if nothing is done.
Human shooting is one of the least stressful manner....
Hmm. So shooting Humans is less stressfull? Ask the guy you shot if he felt stressed!
*I know, you meant to type HUMANE.... I couldn't pass it up!
Feral/wounded animals are best put down. I love animals (cats and dogs) and am also "if I can't eat it" I don't shoot it kind of guy. I appreciate though working a ranch you have to do other wise. Though I don't work or own a ranch. I have put down animals in a similar manner. I did not like it but feel comfortable it was for the best. The movement from the cat was probably a reaction in the nervous system. I have seen it with fatal wounds to the head before. Don't feel bad you did what you thought was right and I probably would have done the same.
People whon have only experienced 'death' from movies or video games are I for a rude awakening in the real world. A headshot doesn't mean that the target is going to instantly drop and freeze. There's a lot of left over electricity in those nerves and it has nowhere to go. That and a shot or two to the torso doesn't drop someone like a rock to lie motionless. If you're lucky enough to hit a vital organ it can shorten things up but it's still going to be a process. Just some info to file away if you ever have to shoot anything.
So very true Jer. The body doesn't shut down instantly.
It's done, my shot was true, and I will get rid' of the dead cat in the morning. It hurt to have to take this cats life, but atleast I did it clean. It now lies at the bottom of my Porch steps, dead as a doornail. I still feel kinda' bad. Last thing I killed was a different Feral Cat.
I hear ya, I hate having to kill stuff. Only thing I hate more is people who don't control their animals and permit them to be a nuisance to others who then have to deal with them.
Would be a lot easier if animal owners were more responsible and kept them off of others peoples property and took steps to make sure they didn't breed uncontrollably.
And I too have never gotten a "fall down dead and don't move" kill. Be real nice if is wasn't necessary.
Thomas M-4
01-14-10, 11:58
Just nerve twitching. Movement does not mean the same as life. It was dead, and you killed it clean. Remnant muscle electricity...
Exactly the way it was explained to me. Is life is circling the drain the body has not caught up to the fact that it is dead.
In 96' my home/family were victims of a home invasion. Long story cut very short I shot the perp in the head with a 12 ga shot gun loaded with 2 3/4'' 1 oz slug. At that moment in time the perps legs were twitching so much and the moaning he was doing that I didn't even realize that I had even inflicted a fetal hit on him. It was 2 hours later after I had given my statement to the police and was being released that they told me he was DOA at the hospital.
LockenLoad
01-14-10, 12:15
I don't think I could kill even a Feral cat. That being said I understand the danger they can pose. Thanks for doing it cleanly.
There is an SOB around here who seems to take pleasure in not being humane. Sometime soon he is going to be on the receiving end of some no so humane treatment if he keeps up.
I can't do it either, even though I probably have a worse problem than Gemini, and I totally understand doing it just a wuss I guess.
I've been using spine shots lately... some were unintentional :confused:.. the critter drops like a rock every time.
You will still get some head movement depending on how far up the spine you land the bullet, and sometimes a front leg will still try to move, but the critter ain't going anywhere.
Killing things seems to bother me more and more the older I get. I recon that's a good thing.
Frank Castle
01-14-10, 12:39
I'm always a bit leery about headshots to wild animals for fear of possibly infecting myself, or another, with rabies. It may be the most humane, but suffering is minimal if you bring enough gun to the fight and place your shots effectively.
Not very realistic. Trapping is far more harmful to an animal and has much higher stress levels than simply killing it.
Human shooting is one of the least stressful manner to put an animal down. If it needs to be done this is about the best option for a wild animal. It's also less risky for the person doing the job.
A "pet" or other animal used to contact can be handled with minimum stress so gassing is reasonable.
Where in the hell did you come up with that load of balarcky??? I am amazed at how many people just make up information on the internet and state it as fact.
First let me state that I have killed animals before I haven't eaten, it happens as a reality of life some times when you live in the country and actually interact with the world, but that doesn't change how I was raised, or the underlining fact that I don't think you should kill something unless you absolutely have to.
But where the hell are you coming up with the conclusion that killing something is actually less stressful then trapping it? Yea it's less stressful, because the animal is dead!!! What a random play on logic, it's baffling really.
geminidglocker
01-14-10, 13:22
Well, the ground was frozen today, but I managed to use an already dug hole to dispose of the carcass. I agree, the older I get, the less able I am to tolerate killing stuff. I hope that I don't ever have to do this again. Catching this thing and bringing it to a Vet would have been impossible. It was in rough shape, and I'm lucky that it did'nt get a chance to bite me or my cat. If my dog had gotten out I don't know how this would have turned out. She's friendly with cats, but this cat was not acting friendly.
PRGGodfather
01-14-10, 13:28
There is an interesting paradox as to the perceived innocence of animals, compared to the inhumanity of our fellow man. Dead body calls (except for little children) don't bother me; while dead animals hit by cars or killed due to animal abuse bother me quite a bit.
I have kept all manner of pets, and yet, I hunt big game, upland game and varmints. I stopped duck hunting because I don't really like duck, but pheasant and turkey are at the top of the list. As a varminter, I don't eat everything I kill -- even as I have NO doubt Mother Nature will put all of us carbon-based life forms to good use when we are done driving the shells. She cares little for guilt or innocence, perceived or otherwise. Such moralistic models prove confusing, to me at least.
We kill billions of rodents and insects annually, just to preserve our grain stores.
So why do I hunt?
In a sense, it is part of my "church." I hunt to remind myself at the core, I am a tribal carnivore; and so I will appreciate given the right stressors and circumstances, most humans WILL become tribal carnivores once again. I am sensitive to it, even as I come to terms with my own mortality. It holds me closer to the truth.
And I do this, living on the Left Coast, where IMHO, the original denial and pussification of America was spawned.
Life is precious, and good people should not experience joy in killing.
Conversely, to say there is no excitement during the stalk and taking an animal humanely through skill would be a lie. To say it does not help us develop the mindset to survive is also a lie. Look at America's military heroes: Alvin York, Carlos Hathcock, and Audie Murphy. All hunted as boys -- all heroes to a man -- and none took joy in killing.
I am grateful for all the times I have taken the animal cleanly, and we should be respectful by sighting in ahead of time and only taking a shot we know we can make. Of course, life is not always that clean. Life is not always clear, or black and white.
I am reminded of a hunt several years ago. My former brother in-law is a decent fellow and we went hunting together after securing permits for depredation. Wildlife management issued them because there were no predators, and lack of competition caused more sick deer, more does who drop more does, and no bucks to strengthen the lines.
Never having hunted, my former brother in-law thought he was prepared -- but he had been too lazy to sight in his rifle before the hunt, and ended up taking multiple shots on a sickly doe because he did not have the appropriate experience or skill. He severely wounded her and yet, she got away.
Initially, I was extremely pissed off and HE felt like real crap.
We looked for nearby water, knowing she would seek comfort from the biting flies attacking her wounds, and we found her in a pond -- when we finally put her down with a head shot -- the following day. I helped him drag her out of the water, even as pissed off as I was that he had not taken her cleanly. He was even harder on himself, than I was on him.
Why?
For all of his incompetence, I know he had no malice aforethought, just a lack of experience -- which inspired more discipline. His citification resulted in lack of respect for a life to be taken. He had not visualized what death would look like, smell like or feel like...
We both learned an important lesson that day about respect and perspective. We both saw the water was anything but clear...
Still, you know what really pisses ME off? Knowing, after watching -- a bunch of extremist a-holes saw off a man's head with a knife, all in very recent history and all in God's name -- and how quickly we all seem to forget about it.
Haven't gotten over that yet.
geminidglocker
01-14-10, 17:05
Great post PRG
Agreed, If you can't take a clean shot, you should'nt shoot. Not fair to the animal. I love animals, and as proof of this, I've been Deer hunting more times than I can remember, but usually find myself just staring through the scope at the Deer. As to this day, I've still never shot one. This is due to the fact that I've never had a clean shot. It's not a big deal to me, as I find that the thrills of the hunt are mostly before the hunt is over. Squirrels are different, I headshoot them and they drop like rocks. I eat them. Unless they are Red Squirrels, those I kill because they encroach on the Greys territory.
Where in the hell did you come up with that load of balarcky??? I am amazed at how many people just make up information on the internet and state it as fact.
......
But where the hell are you coming up with the conclusion that killing something is actually less stressful then trapping it? Yea it's less stressful, because the animal is dead!!! What a random play on logic, it's baffling really.
So it's better to torment an animal by trapping and moving it before it's killed?
It might make you feel better but it's simply not an accurate opinion of what goes on. You think having an animal freak out in a cage or while being moved is much better than simply putting it down? What you are doing is transferring your guilt and ignoring what is best for the animal.
Having had a fair bit of experience on this subject enables me to have a reasonably good idea of what goes on. Knowing people who spend hours every day putting animals down, people who have to trap them, seeing how the animal stresses out or hurts itself in a trap and other factors put some weight on my "opinion".
I would suggest you spend some time reading a few of the decent studies done on this before further rants about what I have posted being rubbish. You can learn something. It may not be what you want to hear, it might mean you need to decide on having "dirty" hands or understanding you simply pass the problem onto someone else at the expense of the animal but this is better than fooling yourself.
Alpha Sierra
01-14-10, 20:10
Still, you know what really pisses ME off? Knowing, after watching -- a bunch of extremist a-holes saw off a man's head with a knife, all in very recent history and all in God's name -- and how quickly we all seem to forget about it.
Haven't gotten over that yet.
:mad:
+1 There SHOULD be no getting over that.
geminidglocker
01-14-10, 20:13
OK, enough already. This thread is CLOSED as far as I'm concerned. You all can debate the trapping thread til' hell freezes over.
John_Wayne777
01-16-10, 14:05
As you wish....probably a good call.
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