View Full Version : Daniel Defense Lite rails vs. M4 rails...
Sorry, the search function is not working for me...
I am looking for responses from those who have experience with both systems.
I like the M4 model because it helps eliminate the temptation of "bridging the gap", but I will get the Lite if experienced users say that it mounts more securely (most important feature to me).
I would go with Larue but I own a BCM middy and am looking for a FSPM model.
Thanks.
To be a little more specifc.... I am planning on using a LT-110 (Larue eotech riser) a little farther foward on my upper receiver. If I do this with a Lite rail the mount will be secured to the Lite rail and my upper receiver (bridging the gap). If i use an M4 rail this will not occur and my zero will not be dependent upon my railed handguard. (handguard can rotate without affecting my zero)
I know the DD rails are very stable but I am trying to get the MOST robust configuration I can with a FSPM rail.
shittercrewchief
01-13-10, 21:04
With the DD lite rail you will need to remove the Gas block to install the Lite rail's proprietary barrel nut.
Look into the DD Omega for a very sturdy drop in free float rail you can install on your delta ring in under 10 minutes.
I'm going to go with one of the FSPM models. I was just wondering if the M4 locked up as well as the Lite rail. Not really interested in the Omega. Not worried about the install.
I am a big fan of the M4 rails and have been using them since that was the only rail system DD made. You may find this chart (http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pwswheghNQsFnUZMkZNF2DQ&output=html) helpful in terms of dimensions and weights.
the Lite and the M4 are the same height, with the M4 being .12" narrower but still with a larger internal diameter. Weight tends to be almost identical (within 1 oz. at most) from one similar version to another.
If I were buying today I would lean more strongly to the Lite if I didn't have a need for the larger ID for a can or something, or if I found the .12" extra width to be an issue (which I very nearly do, the Lite is wider even than the Larue). I do believe the Lite mounting system is stronger but I have also never had, nor ever seen, an M4 rail come loose.
Robb Jensen
01-14-10, 05:54
Sorry, the search function is not working for me...
I am looking for responses from those who have experience with both systems.
I like the M4 model because it helps eliminate the temptation of "bridging the gap", but I will get the Lite if experienced users say that it mounts more securely (most important feature to me).
I would go with Larue but I own a BCM middy and am looking for a FSPM model.
Thanks.
They're both very secure. Personally I'd go Lite Rail.
Evil Colt 6920
01-14-10, 06:50
I have 2 AR's one with the DD omega rail and the other with the DD lite rail. Id go with the Omega, the ease of installation is a plus.
I thought that mounting optics on the rail was not recommended, did I hear some bad info or is this OK?
Id go with the Omega, the ease of installation is a plus.
He can't because he wants one of the FSPM models. Doesn't exist in the Omega.
He's looking at this (http://www.danieldefense.com/?page=shop/detail&product_id=76)
http://www.danieldefense.com/img/product/ce553de75942157fd585bce0de61e649.jpg
or this (http://www.danieldefense.com/?page=shop/detail&product_id=28)
http://www.danieldefense.com/img/product/64beb4b8246dd05f2c71c9a6430c1873.jpg
Rob_S, That is some interesting info you provided. Thanks for the link, good stuff.
Evil Colt, I think the general consensus is that keeping your optics mounted on the upper receiver is the the most secure configuration.
Even though I like the aesthetics of the Lite rail more, I believe I will go with the
M4 because of the reason stated in my second post along with the info provided by Rob.
Thanks for the replies.
Rob_S, That is some interesting info you provided. Thanks for the link, good stuff.
Evil Colt, I think the general consensus is that keeping your optics mounted on the upper receiver is the the most secure configuration.
Even though I like the aesthetics of the Lite rail more, I believe I will go with the
M4 because of the reason stated in my second post along with the info provided by Rob.
Thanks for the replies.
Your reasoning doesn't make any sense. Just because the LITE has the top rail touching the upper receiver does not mean you need to mount anything to it.
You said:
If I do this with a Lite rail the mount will be secured to the Lite rail and my upper receiver (bridging the gap). If i use an M4 rail this will not occur and my zero will not be dependent upon my railed handguard. (handguard can rotate without affecting my zero)
Different handguards should not dictate how you mount an optic.
beavo451
"Your reasoning doesn't make any sense. Just because the LITE has the top rail touching the upper receiver does not mean you need to mount anything to it."
If I am using an M4 rail I can put the LT-110 further foward on my upper receiver. The mount will overhang a little but it will not come in contact with the M4 rail.
If I do the same with a LITE rail my mount will be in contact with the upper receiver and the handguard which I would prefer not to do.
The reason I am putting the mount further foward is so I still have room for a BUIS and a twist off mount for a 3x magnifier.
Just because you fail to understand what I am trying to accomplish does not mean that my reasoning does not make sense.
"Different handguards should not dictate how you mount an optic. "
In this case it does.
Dangerous1
01-14-10, 20:45
DD rails don't flex as you may perceive it. And if there is some minute flex, it's not going to affect your optic mount if it overlaps onto the rail since the flex will only be measurable nearest the barrel tip. I can't foresee any problems by going with the Lite rail unless your rifle is gonna be a benchrest rig.
if there is some minute flex, it's not going to affect your optic mount if it overlaps onto the rail since the flex will only be measurable nearest the barrel tip. .
That makes sense. Thanks.
beavo451
"Your reasoning doesn't make any sense. Just because the LITE has the top rail touching the upper receiver does not mean you need to mount anything to it."
If I am using an M4 rail I can put the LT-110 further foward on my upper receiver. The mount will overhang a little but it will not come in contact with the M4 rail.
If I do the same with a LITE rail my mount will be in contact with the upper receiver and the handguard which I would prefer not to do.
The reason I am putting the mount further foward is so I still have room for a BUIS and a twist off mount for a 3x magnifier.
Just because you fail to understand what I am trying to accomplish does not mean that my reasoning does not make sense.
"Different handguards should not dictate how you mount an optic. "
In this case it does.
If your over hang just barely touches the Lite rail, it would take major movement to screw up the zero. If your over hang goes past the first slot on a Lite rail, it won't fit on the M4 handguard because it will hit the threaded collar.
I DO understand what you are trying to do, so yes your reasoning did not make any sense to me.
Edit: Adding pictures to clarify my point. I do not have an M4 rail anymore, but as you can see, the "T15" mark should be as far forward as you should mount things. If you are past this mark, mis-alignment in the rail will adversely affect your optic. On the M4 rail, this is where the threaded collar is at and it will touch whatever mount you are using. The threaded collar is thick enough that you cannot bridge the gap completely using a carrying handle or other long mount.
Mount completely on upper receiver:
http://tmxfww.blu.livefilestore.com/y1pgRScB3nfuItCFo8M1J6Qvtpb72rGWADcdE-RkbDqVMjFRAR-En4zZN8VT6D5GFxlqb1xcH62msFurC3Y_SG0_313u9YGMx_D/DSC_4864.jpg
Moved up to slightly to have an over-hang:
http://tmxfww.blu.livefilestore.com/y1p6HnsF4G9nDmZpi-FTNBRsPwYGkjfCc_ZCYG9CPkQusyu1Kj1TXzS4zecTvB__PSotP7-VsgvxD90fKtLDA1aJwI4YDEj46tR/DSC_4870.jpg
They're both very secure. Personally I'd go Lite Rail.
Same thoughts here, I switched most of my M4 rails over to Lite rails.
Beavo 451 - I understand now, thanks for the info and pics.
abnartyguy
01-18-10, 06:00
Gents,
Normally I wouldn't wade into the ford vs chevy, or in this case ford 150 '04 vs. ford F150 '05, BUT... I actually ordered both since I've been away. I already have a LITE FSP on a colt 6721(16" HB) that I was so impressed with at the range I have since ordered, and had the wife show me on skype, both the M4 FSP(RRA) with a lightweight 16" barrel, and the OmegaX on a DD upper(on SALE at BCM).
At this point, I've bought all three fords and can not wait to do a little bit of R&D when I get home. Yes, they all three have different barrels under them, but i picked them for different purposes(at least thats my excuse).
So far, the only difference i can tell is looks.
Funny part, i also ordered a mid-length upper that low and behold the KAC didn't work with so the builder(DelTon) offered a DD replacement for a few dollars less...
I'm starting to wonder if I can buy stock in DD?:confused:
justin_247
01-18-10, 07:25
I've seen a lot of worries on here about rotation on the rail causing troubles with your optics, however, I've heard that the DD Lite rail is an extremely stable platform. Have any of you heard of any issues with it coming loose or rotating any? Was it so much that it would cause serious accuracy issues with your reflex sight? I see plenty of people mounting BUIS on it.
I can definitely see how that might cause problems with a scope... Just curious...
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