View Full Version : Red Dot Sights and COD Modern Warfare 2
For those of us without access to the different sights to "Try before you buy", how close are the different red dots in the video game?
Not close at all. Atleast the EOTech is way off.
Not close at all. Atleast the EOTech is way off.
That is what I was thinking. It has a little dot on the game and that's why I ask the people who have different sights.
Belmont31R
01-14-10, 14:08
There are plenty of reticle pics online, and buy from a company that will allow returns if you are not happy with a product.
MW2 or any video game is not a good way to test how well you like something.
Ridge_Runner_5
01-14-10, 14:32
EOTech:
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b100/89Sunbird/AR-15/49f024f3.jpg
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b100/89Sunbird/AR-15/9a17735a.jpg
Not close at all. Atleast the EOTech is way off.
Not sure I agree...
this is the EOTech from the game, looks pretty damn right to me
http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/Callofduty/images/0/0f/M4eo_4.png
http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/callofduty/images/d/db/EOTECH.jpg
While you can use a real red-dot or EOTech in the same fashion as the game, a real red-dot/EOTech is used with both eyes open, so the dot is superimposed on the center of your vision, while the optic itself tends to blur.
With the rifle/carbine/shotgun/subgun held tight and steady in your shoulder as you maintain the visual Bindon Aiming Concept, it's simply put on target and shoot. Like a laser coming out of the middle of your eyes and pointing at the target, but it's hard to explain unless you've used one properly.
Principally, while the games may offer an incredible level of detail and gameplay, they lack in more factors than one in critical functions. The way the EOTech is show in your pictures is more of the way you use an ACOG, which actually is a very nice optic.
Aside from the short (~50mm approx) eye relief, that is. You can use an ACOG with the BAC method, but it is not pragmatic for short range with 4x magnification because the magnification in one eye distorts the overall binocular picture. For compact ACOGs, that is something else.
Pragmatically, if you have an carbine like a AR15 in 6.8 for beach patrol, mountainous terrain or similar open spaces, an Bullet Drop Compensator ACOG is a brilliant tool for the job, though opinions and preferences vary. For everything else close in, like HD for instance, a quality Aimpoint or EOTech is a superior accessory.
If only I was as good in real life as I am in Modern Warfare.:D
Is it possible in any way to look at either an aimpoint or eotech in person? Even going to a gunstore might suffice. At first I had couldn't decide between and eotech or aimpoint, but after handling an eotech at a store, I ordered an aimpoint(the eotech's reticle and controls weren't for me).
While you can use a real red-dot or EOTech in the same fashion as the game, a real red-dot/EOTech is used with both eyes open, so the dot is superimposed on the center of your vision, while the optic itself tends to blur.
With the rifle/carbine/shotgun/subgun held tight and steady in your shoulder as you maintain the visual Bindon Aiming Concept, it's simply put on target and shoot. Like a laser coming out of the middle of your eyes and pointing at the target, but it's hard to explain unless you've used one properly.
Principally, while the games may offer an incredible level of detail and gameplay, they lack in more factors than one in critical functions. The way the EOTech is show in your pictures is more of the way you use an ACOG, which actually is a very nice optic.
Aside from the short (~50mm approx) eye relief, that is. You can use an ACOG with the BAC method, but it is not pragmatic for short range with 4x magnification because the magnification in one eye distorts the overall binocular picture. For compact ACOGs, that is something else.
I disagree with your descriptions of both-eyes-open and the Bindon Aiming Concept as they apply to 1x and magnified optics.
Shooting with both eyes open as with an Aimpoint or EOtech is just that...shooting with both eyes open, with a focus on the target, rather than the optic or red dot, which allows a perception of the dot sort of "floating" on the target while the optic itself blurs. This allows better peripheral vision, depth perception, and target acquisition than closing one eye.
The BAC is for use with ACOGs and other magnified optics with illuminated reticles. By keeping both eyes open during scanning and target acquisition, the dominant eye is looking through the magnified optic, and the non-dominant eye is seeing past the optic (no magnification). When you are scanning, or tracking a moving target, the view through the optic for the dominant eye tends to blur while the non-dom eye focuses on larger picture. But because of illuminated reticle, the dot (or triangle, chevron, etc.) gets superimposed on the picture. When the dot is over the target, it stops (assuming you're scanning for and acquiring a stationary target) and your dominant eye focuses through the optic, taking advantage of the magnification. If it's a moving target, either you can take the shot with both eyes open, using the combined images similar to an 1x red dot or occluded optic, or you can close the non-dom eye once the reticle is on target and let the dominant eye take over. Trijicon's website has a good explanation and demo if you've got the ability to watch a short video. (http://www.trijicon.com/aiming.cfm)
As for the game itself --
What "off" about the portrayal of the red-dots in the game is that both the background and the optic are in focus simultaneously, as shown in the EOtech picture above. Combine this with the fact that the optic is up on a screen several feet or yards, instead of inches, from your eyes, and both are in focus, so your eyes are not able to deal with the differences in depth and focus the same way as they could in real life. The same problem exists with the ACOG in the game. Everything on the screen is effectively on the same focal plane.
Gutshot John
01-14-10, 17:58
I disagree with your descriptions of both-eyes-open and the Bindon Aiming Concept as they apply to 1x and magnified optics...
The BAC is for use with ACOGs and other magnified optics with illuminated reticles.
Agree with everything else but this I'm not sure this is correct or at least requires clarification.
IIRC the BAC was first used on the OEG employed by the Son Tay Raiders which wasn't really an optic at all but it certainly lacked magnification.
I disagree with your descriptions of both-eyes-open and the Bindon Aiming Concept as they apply to 1x and magnified optics.
Shooting with both eyes open as with an Aimpoint or EOtech is just that...shooting with both eyes open, with a focus on the target, rather than the optic or red dot, which allows a perception of the dot sort of "floating" on the target while the optic itself blurs. This allows better peripheral vision, depth perception, and target acquisition than closing one eye.
The BAC is for use with ACOGs and other magnified optics with illuminated reticles. By keeping both eyes open during scanning and target acquisition, the dominant eye is looking through the magnified optic, and the non-dominant eye is seeing past the optic (no magnification). When you are scanning, or tracking a moving target, the view through the optic for the dominant eye tends to blur while the non-dom eye focuses on larger picture. But because of illuminated reticle, the dot (or triangle, chevron, etc.) gets superimposed on the picture. When the dot is over the target, it stops (assuming you're scanning for and acquiring a stationary target) and your dominant eye focuses through the optic, taking advantage of the magnification. If it's a moving target, either you can take the shot with both eyes open, using the combined images similar to an 1x red dot or occluded optic, or you can close the non-dom eye once the reticle is on target and let the dominant eye take over. Trijicon's website has a good explanation and demo if you've got the ability to watch a short video. (http://www.trijicon.com/aiming.cfm)
Holy crap, a rare soul on the internet that understands Bindon's intent, knows how to use an ACOG (except for the eye-closing part), and can articulate it! I swear, all of ARFdom and a few here have confused BAC with OEG.
Agree with everything else but this I'm not sure this is correct or at least requires clarification.
IIRC the BAC was first used on the OEG employed by the Son Tay Raiders which wasn't really an optic at all but it certainly lacked magnification.
I think the OEG is a little different. Without the dual-focusing between the eyes, it's just occluding one eye and superimposing the dot into the other eye's vision.
Holy crap, a rare soul on the internet that understands Bindon's intent, knows how to use an ACOG (except for the eye-closing part), and can articulate it! I swear, all of ARFdom and a few here have confused BAC with OEG.
I've really only applied it with the Accupoint myself, but it does work, or at least it does work for me. I don't have to close my eye usually, but if I want to make use of the magnified view while moving the gun (which honestly is a pretty odd circumstance) I have to close it to shut off input from that eye.
LOL...
I'll concede my points to the correction of others.
I admit I may have some terms and info in error. All I know is that a red-dot or EOTech are not used in the same visual plane as in the game, and further, not one of the shoot-em-up FPS/3rdPS (like Max Payne, Counter-Strike, Ghost Recon, MoH series, etc) had bullet drop and wind. Granted, those are difficult concepts to program and implement, but...
I think I better stop talking now :)
I hate how the acog is extremely slow... Using the BAC, I can use a 6x optic faster than MW2 lets me use the acog...
SWATcop556
01-14-10, 23:09
Are we really to the point that we are relying on a video game (even and accurate one) for RDS comparison?
Just buy from a company or distributor that will allow for returns. Or just buy an Aimpoint.
Leave the games for fun.
not one of the shoot-em-up FPS/3rdPS (like Max Payne, Counter-Strike, Ghost Recon, MoH series, etc) had bullet drop and wind.
There have been several with "bullet drop".Close Combat:First to Fight did the best job IMO.Most recently(that I'm aware of) was the new OFP: DR...Wind would be tough.
Ummmm its a video game. :rolleyes:
yes, its a game, but the original question was if the game was close enough to the real thing to approximate it. Ie, using a reflex, eotech, or acog in the game vs real life.
I think the game is good enough for what it is - a game. At least you get to shoot an ACR!
I think the game is good enough for what it is - a game. At least you get to shoot an ACR!
True...
And I know the game is as close as Ill ever get to a Barrett m107 lol
I just with the effect for a .50 cal hiting a person was better shown in the game. Im getting pretty good with it now that I have a silencer on it and I don't light up like a X-Mas tree every time I fire it. But unless you get a headshot or hit the guys chest, it does not do much damage. How awesome would it be if you hit the guy in the leg, and he had to spend the rest of the time till he dies trying to get around on one leg lol.
Back to the original point. Games can only go so far, but at the end of the day, they only aproximate real life.
As a pilot I used MS Flight Simulator to practice IFR approches into airports I would fly to in real life. I would bring the clowds and visibility down beyond published minimums and shoot the approach. This was good practice, but it did not replace doing it for real.
Who would have thought a simple question about reticules in MW2 would spark such a debate.
But I learned something from the thread so it's a win-win.
OP-
The "holographic' sight or eotech in MW2 has a smaller reticle than it does in real life. The game shows a reticle that fills about 10% of the sight, where in real life it fills more like 25% (unless they make it with different size reticles and I'm not aware).
Hopefully this doesn't break any rules on the site....
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=18&t=264481
Has pictures of about any reticle you would want.
And on the topic of FPS - I hate iron sites in the games. The AK is so easy to use, but the Ar's with ghost rings block your vision. They need to blur out the ring and only show the front post.
If only I was as good in real life as I am in Modern Warfare.:D
Quoted for Truth!
I actually prefer the EOTech on the SCAR, the ACOG on the ACR and red dots on anything else I use.....
but the only Guns in MW2 I have been using are the ACR/ACOG/Silencer or the M21 EBR/Silencer/FMJ.
Quoted for Truth!
I actually prefer the EOTech on the SCAR, the ACOG on the ACR and red dots on anything else I use.....
but the only Guns in MW2 I have been using are the ACR/ACOG/Silencer or the M21 EBR/Silencer/FMJ.
Well I suck at the game, but for some reason I suck more with the EOTech than I do with the regular RDS. I think it may be because the EOTech coveres more of the screen? Not sure. Ill try and use it on the guns again, but I find that I get fewer kills with it.
I also find it better to use SlightOfHand Pro and a silencer instead of Bling with a silenser and FMJ on a sniper rifle. SoH Pro lets you get from hip fire to scope a lot faster. Which I find helpful on a sniper rifle.
Ridge_Runner_5
01-15-10, 12:21
There have been several with "bullet drop".Close Combat:First to Fight did the best job IMO.Most recently(that I'm aware of) was the new OFP: DR...Wind would be tough.
Armed Assault II has bullet drop and wind :D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9npoNxh_PWI
Armed Assault II has bullet drop and wind :D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9npoNxh_PWI
I'll check it out.
PC only though no?
I don't have the time/money that PC gaming requires.
There is absolutely no way we should be discussing the accuracy of a video game to influence the purchase of an optics package. Its a VIDEO GAME! There was a kid the other day that was trying to explain that they make a magnifier for the acog that you can flip to the side, and that he said he saw it on some game. Its ignorance like that that gets to me. I agree with most here and say buy from somebody that excepts returns. No substitution for hands on. If your new to the world of RDS, and are looking at purchasing from a retailer that will treat you right ive always had great experience with GR tac. and or Larue tac. I own a aimpoint and it suits me well, although my bad eyes dont lose the eotech's dot as much as my aimpoint. I can follow the circle and the dot better than just the dot. Its just preference though get out and try one!
Ridge_Runner_5
01-15-10, 21:39
One thing MW2 tought me was that the EOTech can survive an EMP, but the ACOG's tritium will burn out in a similar situation!
Well I suck at the game, but for some reason I suck more with the EOTech than I do with the regular RDS. I think it may be because the EOTech coveres more of the screen? Not sure. Ill try and use it on the guns again, but I find that I get fewer kills with it.
I also find it better to use SlightOfHand Pro and a silencer instead of Bling with a silenser and FMJ on a sniper rifle. SoH Pro lets you get from hip fire to scope a lot faster. Which I find helpful on a sniper rifle.
I only play Hardcore HQ or Hardcore Deathmatch. But my Secondary weapon is either G18 with silencer/red dot, Akimbo 1887's or most recently, and much better for me Im running no Bling, instead, Scavenger(sniper class only) so I can pick up more claymores and my 2nd weapon is the M93 Rafika with Red Dot..... Sniper Rifle is still the M21 with silencer....
Got my Nuke on Hardcore Team Deathmatch on Rundown with the newest Sniper Class..... was so intense! haha
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