View Full Version : Florida getting Haitians.
Representatives are calling their constituents telling them it's official - Fl is getting Haitians.
In other news, Haitians are piling dead bodies in the streets as roadblocks to protest slow relief efforts.
Deportation of illegal Haitian immigrants has been postponed indefinitely.
RogerinTPA
01-15-10, 12:49
That's just perfect!:mad:
That's just perfect!:mad:No offense Roger but this doesn't appear to be a very nice attitude towards people in desperate need of help. Do you think Georgia and Alabama residents would feel the same way as you do when Florida gets hit by another major hurricane? Where's is your frustration/anger aimed at?
ForTehNguyen
01-15-10, 13:12
sounds like Katrina refugees coming to Houston however on a country size scale :rolleyes:
No offense Roger but this doesn't appear to be a very nice attitude towards people in desperate need of help. Do you think Georgia and Alabama residents would feel the same way as you do when Florida gets hit by another major hurricane? Where's is your frustration/anger aimed at?
The frustration is that we are in debt. We are going MUCH further in debt. We have given Haiti $9billion in aid in the past decade and they've done nothing with it. Their neighbor on the same island is flourishing. We have enough people here mooching off the welfare state - we can't afford them, let alone more.
I will be interested to see how many of them lift a hand to rebuild their homes over the next few months, how they work together to accomplish getting back to a 'normal' life.
We are also sending them 100 million (Edited from 10 Billion, sorry)in aid for the earthquake. Given the state of the country, they should still have that 9billion saved up somewhere that they could use.
We're not mad at the Haitians. We're mad at our gov't for throwing money at a problem that will never get better by throwing money at it.
RogerinTPA
01-15-10, 13:21
No offense Roger but this doesn't appear to be a very nice attitude towards people in desperate need of help. Do you think Georgia and Alabama residents would feel the same way as you do when Florida gets hit by another major hurricane? Where's is your frustration/anger aimed at?
American refugees, no problem. Take care of our own.
Foreign refugees, i have a big problem with that. Why not send them to all the surrounding countries to ease the transition back to there country instead?
Because:
A. No country offered.
B. The country will NEVER go back to it's previous "pristine" condition.
C. They won't voluntarily go back unless by force and will do what ever it takes, to stay.
A year from now, you will be arguing with me to have the US, allow them to stay, because of the impoverish and deplorable conditions in that country. That country wasn't fit for human habitation to begin with. What makes you think everything will be fine in 1, 5, 10, 20 years? It won't. Mean while, our tax dollars will be diverted to them, instead of the needs of our country.
Most have been trying to gain illegal entry into the US forever. Now we help them get here, knowing full well that they will never return or have no burning desire to do so. I mean how do you convince someone who's come from an already "shit" environment pre-earthquake, to refugee status in the US, to go back to "shittier" conditions post-earthquake? Sorry, not our problem.
No offense Roger but this doesn't appear to be a very nice attitude towards people in desperate need of help. Do you think Georgia and Alabama residents would feel the same way as you do when Florida gets hit by another major hurricane? Where's is your frustration/anger aimed at?
Call me after you've lived down here for a few years.
If you can't see the difference in taking in fellow citizens of an otherwise productive area and having turd-worlders that were busily running their own shithole further into the ground before this disaster, well...
Call me after you've lived down here for a few years.
If you can't see the difference in taking in fellow citizens of an otherwise productive area and having turd-worlders that were busily running their own shithole further into the ground before this disaster, well...The problem I see is that people are labeling every single Haitian as a worthless human being not worthy of help. I'm pretty sure that's not the case. So are the only people worthy of help productive in society? I'm not sure what you're trying to say here. :confused:
Did you guys ever consider the fact that current and past refugees are/were just trying to escape the thugs, gangs, and civil war that had taken over their country? Do bad guys run away from violence or do good people flee for their safety?
I realize it's one hell of a mess. But one has to be very careful about turning your back on another human being in need of help.
PS. I lived in the Tampa/St. Pete area for 5 years. So I'm not sure where you were going with that one.
The problem I see is that people are labeling every single Haitian as a worthless human being not worthy of help. I'm pretty sure that's not the case. So are the only people worthy of help productive in society? I'm not sure what you're trying to say here. :confused:
Did you guys ever consider the fact that current and past refugees are/were just trying to escape the thugs, gangs, and civil war that had taken over their country? Do bad guys run away from violence or do good people flee for their safety?
I realize it's one hell of a mess. But one has to be very careful about turning your back on another human being in need of help.
PS. I lived in the Tampa/St. Pete area for 5 years. So I'm not sure where you were going with that one.
So, how much have you donated to the Haitian relief fund? What right is it of the government's to use our tax money to send to Haiti, or force people here to deal with refugees? If it were Canadians it would be a different story. Even Dominican Republicans - at least they have a productive country. I doubt that Haitians are going to fit well into our society without turning into criminals. They've sucked welfare from the US in their own country, and will continue to do so even more (higher cost of living) here in ours.
We'll see if they prove me wrong. Hopefully they do.
The irony is that Wyclef is from Haiti, is heading up relief efforts, and came to fame with a group called the Fugees...
I live and work in the Dade/Broward area. Tampa don't hold a candle to here.
I'm making two points.
Number one is that the people you're volunteering others to take in are the same people, as a whole, that either made their country into a turd-world shithole or allowed it to happen. Neither desirable qualities IMHO.
The second is that you're comparing people from another country to refugees from within your own county. If you think that's a fair comparison then there's no point debating any of this with you and I will gladly concede that by your ethics, morals, and beliefs you should volunteer immediately to host a Haitain family in your own home.
I have not seen anyone label every single Haitian as anything. Yes, as a population their did nothing by coming to this country but bring their problems with them, but I have had many Haitians work for me that were hard workers, enjoyed what they were doing, were glad to be here, and were attempting to assimilate as best they could.
I agree that if private citizens want to help to make themselves feel good then by all means they should continue with the texting (God forbid they break a sweat "helping"). I have a fundamental problem with the way our government spends all this international "aid" money to begin with, and that $100mil pledged today is only the beginning. Personally I would MUCH rather see that $100mil and the God-know-how-much-more dumped into NOLA (or better yet parts of Alabama that are still not back to 100%) helping Americans, creating American jobs, and building a better and lasting America.
I live and work in the Dade/Broward area. Tampa don't hold a candle to here.
I'm making two points.
Number one is that the people you're volunteering others to take in are the same people, as a whole, that either made their country into a turd-world shithole or allowed it to happen. Neither desirable qualities IMHO.
The second is that you're comparing people from another country to refugees from within your own county. If you think that's a fair comparison then there's no point debating any of this with you and I will gladly concede that by your ethics, morals, and beliefs you should volunteer immediately to host a Haitain family in your own home.
I have not seen anyone label every single Haitian as anything. Yes, as a population their did nothing by coming to this country but bring their problems with them, but I have had many Haitians work for me that were hard workers, enjoyed what they were doing, were glad to be here, and were attempting to assimilate as best they could.
I agree that if private citizens want to help to make themselves feel good then by all means they should continue with the texting (God forbid they break a sweat "helping"). I have a fundamental problem with the way our government spends all this international "aid" money to begin with, and that $100mil pledged today is only the beginning. Personally I would MUCH rather see that $100mil and the God-know-how-much-more dumped into NOLA (or better yet parts of Alabama that are still not back to 100%) helping Americans, creating American jobs, and building a better and lasting America.
Or our government could just stop over taxing us all together and let people do their own rebuilding with the help of their fellow countrymen. And stop giving welfare to mooches who think they deserve to not work.
But I'm sure you agree with me and know it's asking too much of our leaders.
ic_guerrero
01-15-10, 15:19
Did you guys ever consider the fact that current and past refugees are/were just trying to escape the thugs, gangs, and civil war that had taken over their country? Do bad guys run away from violence or do good people flee for their safety?
They won't run from it, but they sure as hell will follow an opportunity. The thugs and criminals are probably going to be some of the first to jump ship and head here. Look at what happened to Houston's crime rate after Katrina.
The problem I see is that people are labeling every single Haitian as a worthless human being not worthy of help. I'm pretty sure that's not the case.
You are correct, it is not all of them. I know a few decent Haitians. But it is fairly most of them. And that vast majority are the problem. They have turned whole communities in South Florida into complete shitholes.
We are talking about thousands of people who don't see anything wrong with defecating in public. They simply bring their current standard of living and continue with it here. And it is that lifestyle which makes Haiti the hell hole it is in the first place.
They won't run from it, but they sure as hell will follow an opportunity. The thugs and criminals are probably going to be some of the first to jump ship and head here. Look at what happened to Houston's crime rate of Katrina.
I feel that's irrelevant anyway. Where are they going to put them? What facilities are they going to use?
kaiservontexas
01-15-10, 16:08
The Navy should surround that place and hold them their. C130s can drop aid. We have enough illegals crawling over the fence. We do not need to welcome a whole 'nother nation into our country. It is not about not being nice. It is about our civilization/culture/society. I hope Haiti rebuilds better then the have ever been, but importing them into this country is not going to help anybody.
Derek_Connor
01-15-10, 16:49
We have starving, dying, and homeless people here in the US. Sorry, but Haiti and refugees coming from there are none of my concern or priority.
Its Somalia but in the Caribbean. The resources we sink into that arm pit will do nothing to change the out come. Hasn't history shown us this already?
We are also sending them 10 billion in aid for the earthquake.
Can you verify this figure?
Regardless, if they would have civilized themselves decades ago they would have been evolved enough to actually establish building codes. They still have none.
Derek_Connor
01-15-10, 17:20
I heard 100million in raw aid supplies.
But when you start to add up the deployment cost of sending multiple cruisers, hospitals, helicopters to deliver service based aid, it could be up there.
I heard 100million in raw aid supplies.
But when you start to add up the deployment cost of sending multiple cruisers, hospitals, helicopters to deliver service based aid, it could be up there.
and that's just the gubmint.
I can't help but wonder what percentage of the text-message contributors contributed anything to Katrina relief. Or Farm Aid. Or pick your domestic charity of choice.
I don't mind the US helping out in the relief effort but where are the other countries? How much are they chipping in compared to us? We're going to send millions of dollars in cash and millions of dollars’ worth of food, equipment, gear, resources, etc. and in the end we'll still be the evil United States.
Mark my words; we'll actually be criticized for not helping out enough or quick enough or for some other sorry ass reason. You know the old saying, “no good deed goes unpunished”. We’re just spending money we don’t have to make ourselves out to be the bad guy again.
...and in the end we'll still be the evil United States.
Yes, but maybe Obama will only start to do a 45 degree bow to foreign leaders now as opposed to his current 90 degree one.
Haven't we finally earned it? :rolleyes:
RogerinTPA
01-15-10, 17:40
Not to mention, we still are still at war.
I am not against sending them aid as far as disaster relief and humanitarian assistance is concerned, to save lives in Haiti, but keep in mind, that is it.
What I don't want to see is more money spend to build a working infrastructure that never was, or barely worked like in Iraq. Let there nation, the caribbean countries and the UN do that. Sadly, I bet we will be footing the bill on that as well...
variablebinary
01-15-10, 17:44
Importing Haitians is humanitarian aid? WTF!
FromMyColdDeadHand
01-15-10, 17:50
Umm, got plenty of space at Gitmo coming soon.
Can we do a reverse Mariel Boatload and just open the fences in Cuba and let them run free in the communist Cuban paradise?
Horrible, awful circumstances in Haiti.
DevilPhrog
01-15-10, 18:07
The frustration is that we are in debt. We are going MUCH further in debt. We have given Haiti $9billion in aid in the past decade and they've done nothing with it. Their neighbor on the same island is flourishing. We have enough people here mooching off the welfare state - we can't afford them, let alone more.
I will be interested to see how many of them lift a hand to rebuild their homes over the next few months, how they work together to accomplish getting back to a 'normal' life.
We are also sending them 10 billion in aid for the earthquake. Given the state of the country, they should still have that 9billion saved up somewhere that they could use.
We're not mad at the Haitians. We're mad at our gov't for throwing money at a problem that will never get better by throwing money at it.
Exactly.
rubberneck
01-15-10, 18:23
Where is France in all of this? They are the reason why Haiti is such a ****ed up shit hole in the first place and yet we have dumped billions of dollars into that country over the last decade trying to fix France's mess.
I am all for helping them but if we are going to get refugees we should move them to Gitmo short term before repatriating them. Letting them come here becomes a radioactive political football, none of them will leave and it will end up costing billions upon the billions we have already spent trying to improve their lives.
At the risk of sounding callous but we have done more to try and unscrew that country than any other nation in the world and it is time for others to start helping by picking up some of the slack.
Importing Haitians is humanitarian aid? WTF!
Ditto! The powers that be are ****ed!
Umm, got plenty of space at Gitmo coming soon.
Can we do a reverse Mariel Boatload and just open the fences in Cuba and let them run free in the communist Cuban paradise?
Horrible, awful circumstances in Haiti.
It is a terrible situation, to be sure. Still, your Gitmo quip is hilarity!
Can you verify this figure?
Regardless, if they would have civilized themselves decades ago they would have been evolved enough to actually establish building codes. They still have none.
Here's a list of money we've given in the past
http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Global-News/2010/0113/Haiti-earthquake-damage-How-much-aid-has-the-US-given-Haiti-in-past-crises
And my apologies, I should have verified the figure instead of typing it from memory. It's $100 Million. I'll change my post.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/15/us/15prexy.html
So will they be repatriated ? Who's going to feed them? Cloth them? Shelter them?
What about physicals? disease? We already have too high an unemployment rate here.
How are these unskilled going to be employed here?
Give them the tools to rebuild their homes,in Hatai
Oh forgot we can just print more money.Hey I have a check left in my checkbook, so there must be money in there.
In the words of Col Askins,I'm an unrepentant sinner.
variablebinary
01-15-10, 19:31
Nothing like solidifying the Democrat vote with a few thousand new Haitians.
rubberneck
01-15-10, 19:34
Nothing like solidifying the Democrat vote with a few thousand new Haitians.
If it were only a few thousand. Between the refugee's that are about to be brought stateside in mass numbers and the illegal's who can no longer be deported that number could be well into the six figures.
No offense Roger but this doesn't appear to be a very nice attitude towards people in desperate need of help. Do you think Georgia and Alabama residents would feel the same way as you do when Florida gets hit by another major hurricane? Where's is your frustration/anger aimed at?
I'll tell ya where the anger is aimed at......Our borders opening up to thousands of refugees that are pennyless and uneducated.....getting a free greencard and pass to the U.S. Crime, and aids just increased 30%. While they're situation is terrible and a tragedy, don't you think a better solution would be to contract U.S. workers to go there and rebuild/teach them how to rebuild. Create jobs out of this since the U.S. is the obviously going to be the biggest contributor to the relief. Odds are 50% or more will remain in FL. on ****ing welfare. Tourism being the biggest industry down here has taken a crap jobs are nil, think about the financial impact this is going to have. U.S. should aim the big brother stick at surrounding countries to help take the refugees. All this money could be set aside and invested to help prepare for the next disaster Florida might have in the future.
I'll tell ya where the anger is aimed at......Our borders opening up to thousands of refugees that are pennyless and uneducated.....getting a free greencard and pass to the U.S. Crime, and aids just increased 30%. While they're situation is terrible and a tragedy, don't you think a better solution would be to contract U.S. workers to go there and rebuild/teach them how to rebuild. Create jobs out of this since the U.S. is the obviously going to be the biggest contributor to the relief. Odds are 50% or more will remain in FL. on ****ing welfare. Tourism being the biggest industry down here has taken a crap jobs are nil, think about the financial impact this is going to have. U.S. should aim the big brother stick at surrounding countries to help take the refugees. All this money could be set aside and invested to help prepare for the next disaster Florida might have in the future.
Great post, couldn't agree with you more.
Where is France in all of this? They are the reason why Haiti is such a ****ed up shit hole in the first place and yet we have dumped billions of dollars into that country over the last decade trying to fix France's mess.
I like to blame France as much as the next guy, but Haiti's been independent since 1804.
rubberneck
01-15-10, 23:51
I like to blame France as much as the next guy, but Haiti's been independent since 1804.
I think you need to study the history of Haiti. France ****ed that country up so badly that 200 years later it is still the same shit hole France made it when it forced the Haitian's, at gun point, to pay 150,000,000 (in early 1800 money) francs for their freedom. They brought in slaves by the tens of thousands, kept them in conditions that made American slaves look like they were spoiled, raped their country for it's natural resources and then pulled the rug out from under them on the way out. Think Liberia without the billions of dollars of support over the past two centuries. To this day the French haven't raised a ****ing finger to help unscrew their mistake.
Nothing like solidifying the Democrat vote with a few thousand new Haitians.
Boy ain't that the truth!
CNN was playing on all the TVs at the airport last night and we're already being accused of being too slow to respond. They're asking where are the Americans as if they think it's our duty to come and help them. :mad:
I'll tell ya where the anger is aimed at......Our borders opening up to thousands of refugees that are pennyless and uneducated.....getting a free greencard and pass to the U.S. Crime, and aids just increased 30%. While they're situation is terrible and a tragedy, don't you think a better solution would be to contract U.S. workers to go there and rebuild/teach them how to rebuild. Create jobs out of this since the U.S. is the obviously going to be the biggest contributor to the relief. Odds are 50% or more will remain in FL. on ****ing welfare. Tourism being the biggest industry down here has taken a crap jobs are nil, think about the financial impact this is going to have. U.S. should aim the big brother stick at surrounding countries to help take the refugees. All this money could be set aside and invested to help prepare for the next disaster Florida might have in the future.I think that may very well be part of the overall plan. But the problem right now is what do you do with the current refugee problem? If the people stay there some of them could help out but most of them would only be a burden to the relief/rebuild effort. So that might be why the plan is to move the vast majority out of the way so to speak.
Guys, I don't want to come off as a "holier-than-thou" type of person. I do practice what I preach. I just didn't like the tone of some of the posts as they appeared to be totally insensitive to the situation. If my assumption was wrong then I sincerely apologize to anyone I may have offended.
Someone mentioned I should host refugees in my own home. Unfortunately, I am in no position to do such. During Katrina I did organize a charity ride for motorcycles and raised about $1000 which we donated to the Salvation Army. I'm considering doing something similar. My thoughts are to organize a "Hike for Haitians" charity hike here at Oak Mountain State Park in Birmingham, Al. within the next few weeks and donate the money to the Salvation Army once again. If anyone is local and would like to help out please PM me.
If some of us appear "insensitive" (which, for the record, I don't see as a bad trait at all) perhaps it's because we have more first-hand knowledge of the demographic you're asking us to host, and will be the ones dealing directly with hosting them.
You are planning on your course of action being basically to feel bad for them, take a walk, and send them $1k. I'm foreseeing being stuck with these people for decades and bearing not only the cost burden but also the impact on our day-to-day lives.
SteyrAug put it best when he described the way these people live. It has nothing to do with where specifically they are from or their genetic makeup, it has to do with the fact that they come from a turd-world country and they come here not knowing any better, and bringing their turd-world behaviors with them.
If our only options are to host them here or leave them there, and in the short term hosting costs 1/2 what leaving them costs, we're better off leaving them and eating the bullet now because the long term costs of adding to our ever-growing population of turd-worlders will cost the state and federal government exponentially more in the long term.
I cannot describe to you enough the impact that many of the immigrants have had on South East Florida over the last 50 years. Yes, many are prominant business people, have become very sucessful and contribute to society, but many others have brought their disgusting personal behavior, their view of business and politics as being something that should be corrupt and rife with graft.... and at least the ones that are here are the ones that had enough motivation to leave there and get themselves here. Now you're talking about forcing the ones that didn't even have that level of drive down our throats.
Until you have lived it, and seen it first hand, and dealt with it on a personal and professional level, you can't begin to understand why some of us would prefer not to make matters worse.
I was in Little Haiti two days ago. I have friends that live and work in and around that area. I say leave the "refugees" where they are, feed and clothe them, and use the devastation of this disaster to wipe the slate clean and have them pull themselves up by their own bootstraps. If all we do is give, and never make them earn, they'll never appreciate what they've got and they'll be right back where they started in short order.
EzGoingKev
01-16-10, 08:48
While they're situation is terrible and a tragedy
It is their situation and I am not just talking grammatical errors here.
Submariner
01-16-10, 09:13
Do we, the people, need to help them via fed.gov?
Can fed.gov afford to help them?
Is it constitutional for fed.gov to do help them?
If yes to all three, how will fed.gov pay for all this? Tax us more? Borrow more money? Print more money?
It seems to me that the only winners are those through whose hands the aid money flows and the tax feeders who administer the programs.
RogerinTPA
01-16-10, 09:19
People, as a whole will seek the path of least resistance. People would rather sponge off free handouts than to put forth any effort to work, I mean, look at my home town Detroit and look what handouts, Unions and Gov't assistance has done to it. People will not reach deep inside themselves and change, or adapt, until forced into a survival mode, be it war, natural disaster or what ever.
Leaving them in their country, can be an added benefit to the people as a whole. Use the suffering as a vehicle and the conditions, to force the people to change their attitude, making them work and rebuild, together. It will solidify the country, cause them to take pride in what they have rebuilt, and giving them a sense of national unity and duty. Maybe this quake can serve as the "wake up call" to change their entire outlook on life and their country.
They're asking where are the Americans as if they think it's our duty to come and help them. :mad:
Not surprising. Its always the countries that hate us that end up asking for our help first. :rolleyes: America does more to help these 3rd world countries than anybody else and we still get shit on. Damned if we do, damned if we don't. :confused:
EzGoingKev
01-16-10, 11:51
Damned if we do, damned if we don't. :confused:
Personally I would rather be damn if we don't and concentrate on fixing our own problems.
Personally I would rather be damn if we don't and concentrate on fixing our own problems.
Bingo!
I'm not really seeing the "damned if we don't" outside of hew and cry and whiny Europeans.
variablebinary
01-16-10, 12:05
I still think the move is political to sway elections, in the same way certain people want to flood red states with illegals
You are correct, it is not all of them. I know a few decent Haitians. But it is fairly most of them. And that vast majority are the problem. They have turned whole communities in South Florida into complete shitholes.
We are talking about thousands of people who don't see anything wrong with defecating in public. They simply bring their current standard of living and continue with it here. And it is that lifestyle which makes Haiti the hell hole it is in the first place.
I guess folks forgot how south Florida was when the Cubans invaded. Now we have to house the HAITIANS?? Why can't they be sent to Nebraska or some state with low populations? I all for helping out but you also have to look at the long term/second and third order effects. I'm not even going to start in on their health issues (HIV/AIDS).
(HIV/AIDS).
http://www.usaid.gov/our_work/global_health/aids/Countries/lac/haiti.html
Haiti is one of PEPFAR’s 15 focus countries, which collectively represent approximately 50 percent of HIV infections worldwide.
This made me even more ill however
Under PEPFAR, Haiti received more than
$28 million in Fiscal Year (FY) 2004, nearly
$51.8 million in FY 2005, approximately
$55.6 million in FY 2006, and
$84.7 million in FY 2007 to support comprehensive HIV/AIDS prevention, treatment and care programs. PEPFAR is providing more than
$100.6 million in FY 2008
Total?
$320,700,000 over 5 years
Where in the hell does that amount of money go? And what do we have to show for it? Anything? Anything at all? The fact that the annual amount went up and up indicates that it didn't accomplish shit and they just kept throwing money at the problem.
With that amount of money invested in the US we could have build 1,687,894 square feet of school space. Depending on how you do the math that is somewhere between 1,000 and 2,000 classrooms, servicing between 20,000 and 60,000 students per year. US students. American (or, mostly anyway). Students. I use the school number because building schools is what I know, but that could be hospitals, police stations, whatever. Renovate old, run down, shithole schools in bad areas instead and the dollars stretch even further, and the number of students reached per year could easily become 100,000.
Submariner
01-16-10, 13:26
Where in the hell does that amount of money go? And what do we have to show for it? Anything? Anything at all? The fact that the annual amount went up and up indicates that it didn't accomplish shit and they just kept throwing money at the problem.
Politicians' pockets, here and there; bureaucrats' pockets, here and there; and connected businessmen's pockets, here and there. Corruption is a variation of "trickle down."
With that amount of money invested in the US we could have build 1,687,894 square feet of school space. Depending on how you do the math that is somewhere between 1,000 and 2,000 classrooms, servicing between 20,000 and 60,000 students per year. US students. American (or, mostly anyway). Students. I use the school number because building schools is what I know, but that could be hospitals, police stations, whatever. Renovate old, run down, shithole schools in bad areas instead and the dollars stretch even further, and the number of students reached per year could easily become 100,000.
Rob, how many of these construction projects are the responsibility of fed.gov? Zero!
How long before the "shithole schools in bad areas" will need renovation again because of the Haitian-like folks living in the bad areas?
The sad thing about Haiti is that they have had HIV infection rates of around %50 for over twenty years. I learned a long time ago to ask those attractive little ladies where they are from. %50 odds are way to high to risk when dealing with Haitians. My point of view is strictly from the social aspect of contracting the disease. I haven't discussed the risk to health care workers and others who deal with sick and injured people who may have bodily fluids every where.
Rob, how many of these construction projects are the responsibility of fed.gov? Zero!
How long before the "shithole schools in bad areas" will need renovation again because of the Haitian-like folks living in the bad areas?
None. But if the fed gov is going to blow the cash.... American schools, jails, police stations, and hospitals, or Haitian AIDS patients?
I guess folks forgot how south Florida was when the Cubans invaded. Now we have to house the HAITIANS?? Why can't they be sent to Nebraska or some state with low populations? I all for helping out but you also have to look at the long term/second and third order effects. I'm not even going to start in on their health issues (HIV/AIDS).
And as much of a detrimental effect the Mariel had on South Florida, they are NOTHING compared to most Haitians. By and large the Cubans come here to live a BETTER life and take responsibility for doing so. They understand things like basic sanitation.
[/QUOTE]Someone mentioned I should host refugees in my own home. Unfortunately, I am in no position to do such. .[/QUOTE]
And neither is the United States
But the problem right now is what do you do with the current refugee problem?
Let the problem take care of itself.
Why can't they be sent to Nebraska
Because our state is overrun with illegal Mexicans working in meat packing plants who cause all of the same problems as rob_s and SteyrAUG have already mentioned.
Lets see...
They shit and piss in the street.
Junked cars parked wherever.
They slaughter (live) livestock in the middle of town in their back yard.
They throw their everyday trash in the ditch
They throw their large trash (sofas, tires, mattresses, automobile doors, etc) in the state recreation area dumpsters or dumpers of business owners
They crash their cars into Americans and flee the scene because they have no insurance, driving somebody else's car, and are afraid to get deported
They live 20 to a house. A house in my home town that is about 1200 sq ft and always has 7 cars parked in the driveway or front yard.
The only "business" they patronize is the hospital (for free) and walmart.
They trespass into gated communities in my home town and attempt to throw bon fires in these places in the common grounds and leave all their beer cans and other garbage behind.
They steal as much metal as they can (copper wiring off center pivot irrigation, steel and aluminum irrigation pipe from farms, etc) and attempt to sell it at the scrap metal dealer. Anything not bolted or locked down is at risk for theft and even then...
They trespass into private lakes to fish for their daily meals.
Property taxes are sky high here because all their kids are in school and they have to hire a ESL teacher. A $400,000 house here has $6,000 worth of property tax on it per year.
Registering you vehicle in NE is sky high. Twice or 3 times as much as surrounding SD, WY, KS, and IA.
Except for shitting and pissing in the streets, the Mexicans working the farms here in central and southern NJ are very much the same as your breed. Dirty and nasty.
Ordinances have been developed in some local towns to prevent too many inhabitants from occupying one home due to their sardine-like living arrangements. Trash and slop in front of every dwelling.
They crash their cars into Americans and flee the scene because they have no insurance, driving somebody else's car, and are afraid to get deported.
And recently two illegal brothers attempted to walk away from an accident that killed a 27 year old elementary school teacher on her way to work not 5 minutes from my house.
Enough.
Because our state is overrun with illegal Mexicans working in meat packing plants who cause all of the same problems as rob_s and SteyrAUG have already mentioned.
How does this sound. We can send the Haitians to Alaska. Each Family gets an acre or two of land and they can live there until they are ready to go back to Haiti.
Here is another thought. Most of the damaged buildings and areas will have to razed to the ground. When these areas are rebuilt do you really think the original occupants will be able to return? Haiti will be rebuilt in such a way as to entice tourism. Which means no slums (or very few). Now that they are evacuating the island many of these families will not have a place to return to.
variablebinary
01-17-10, 11:34
Because our state is overrun with illegal Mexicans working in meat packing plants who cause all of the same problems as rob_s and SteyrAUG have already mentioned.
Lets see...
They shit and piss in the street.
Junked cars parked wherever.
They slaughter (live) livestock in the middle of town in their back yard.
They throw their everyday trash in the ditch
They throw their large trash (sofas, tires, mattresses, automobile doors, etc) in the state recreation area dumpsters or dumpers of business owners
They crash their cars into Americans and flee the scene because they have no insurance, driving somebody else's car, and are afraid to get deported
They live 20 to a house. A house in my home town that is about 1200 sq ft and always has 7 cars parked in the driveway or front yard.
The only "business" they patronize is the hospital (for free) and walmart.
They trespass into gated communities in my home town and attempt to throw bon fires in these places in the common grounds and leave all their beer cans and other garbage behind.
They steal as much metal as they can (copper wiring off center pivot irrigation, steel and aluminum irrigation pipe from farms, etc) and attempt to sell it at the scrap metal dealer. Anything not bolted or locked down is at risk for theft and even then...
They trespass into private lakes to fish for their daily meals.
Property taxes are sky high here because all their kids are in school and they have to hire a ESL teacher. A $400,000 house here has $6,000 worth of property tax on it per year.
Registering you vehicle in NE is sky high. Twice or 3 times as much as surrounding SD, WY, KS, and IA.
Sounds about right.
Its the same in Utah. Anywhere there is a high concentration of illegals is a complete and total shit hole
How does this sound. We can send the Haitians to Alaska. Each Family gets an acre or two of land and they can live there until they are ready to go back to Haiti.
Here is another thought. Most of the damaged buildings and areas will have to razed to the ground. When these areas are rebuilt do you really think the original occupants will be able to return? Haiti will be rebuilt in such a way as to entice tourism. Which means no slums (or very few). Now that they are evacuating the island many of these families will not have a place to return to.
Or we could just deport them and have them work out their problems in their country. You know, kinda like every single American has to do in this country.
When I turned 18 I wasn't given a place to live. I had to find a means to support myself and a place to live.
If you removed every single Haitian from the island and replaced them with Americans or Europeans, it would be a much different place. The reason Haiti is ****ed up is because the people their do not work for long term goals and are not effectively organized. Same reason productive parts of Africa devolved into shitholes when the Europeans left or were driven out.
The reason Haiti is ****ed up is because the people their do not work for long term goals and are not effectively organized.
For which, we are partly to blame with our "aid" developing them into a country that is totally dependent on other nations.
Yesterday I compared Haiti to our neighbor's child who, at 25, is still living at home. Yes, it's the child's fault for never leaving but it's the parents fault for not giving the child the tools needed and the motivation to leave.
variablebinary
01-17-10, 13:35
If we totally wash our hands of Haiti, we would end up with Darfur in our backyard. We'll have a million Haitians seeking political asylum washing up on our beaches overnight
Damned if you do, and damned if you dont.
Personally, I dont think we should be giving a dime to Haiti as long as there are 3rd world toilets right here in the USA. Detroit, New Orleans, Chicago, New York, St. Louis ...all those places are closer to Uganda than the free republic intended by the founders
RogerinTPA
01-17-10, 14:15
They need to flip the switch from "existence" mode to "productive human being" mode. That country is "tore up from the floor up". Until they can get some national unity and entrepreneurial spirit, simple existence, just living day to day, without planning for more than one day into the future, it will continue to be an ingrained way of life.
These haitian people have the mentality of an animal.
1. What can I get to eat?
2. How fast can I run away from danger?
3. What hole am I going to find shelter in?
4. Who can I breed with?
That is how bad it is down there. A basic survival instinct.
They are even lower than turd worlders from say mexico who still live in shit but atleast halfway work to halfway support their existence.
Grand Island, NE is full of Somalis that work in the Swift slaughterhouse. They are all muslim and demand the plant be shut down on muslim holidays in addition to US legal holidays. They are also dirty and filthy. Some church group brought them in since they felt guilty for being Americans. Grand Island also has its share of mexicans working at Swift. The mexicans and somalis do not get along. Stabbings have occurred in the plants.
ICE had a raid at Swift in Grand Island and sent a bunch of mexicans home a few years ago. There were bunch of sob stories on the news about how families were being torn apart and the kids were American citizens (anchor babies) etc and how awful it was, blah, blah, blah...
Schuyler, Lexington, South Souix City, and Fremont are also full of them because Tyson, Hormel, and Cargil are located in those places.
Nebraska has the largest meat packing industry per capita than any other state and all the plants are filled with turd world losers.
Marshalltown, IA is bad too.
Lincoln, NE is a designated refugee city by the US federal govt (like Detroit) and there are all kinds of foreigners there. Very liberal place with the center of state govt and the university. Large foreigner population that is very noticeable. Whole swaths of Lincoln are run down because of it.
BIG +1 TO VARIABLEBINARY. The American populace is being TOLD! that we don't know how to run our own country so our elected officials will run it for us. Go to the polls do not under any circumstances vote for an incumbant they are all professional politicians .We need citizens in washington that have done something other than be one. These idiots have never done an honest days work in their lives and wouldn't know their ass from a hole in the ground .I'll get off my rant for now just needed to get it off my mind .thx xfyrfiter]
For which, we are partly to blame with our "aid" developing them into a country that is totally dependent on other nations.
Yesterday I compared Haiti to our neighbor's child who, at 25, is still living at home. Yes, it's the child's fault for never leaving but it's the parents fault for not giving the child the tools needed and the motivation to leave.
One across the street is 32...still living at home. ****ing loser, and yes I agree with you.
But our aid isn't completely the problem. If we gave them nothing, that is no guarantee they will get their shit together. Additionally, we can help countries like England and Canada in "times of need" and it does not prevent them from getting their shit together in short order. It is help in it's truest sense of the word.
I wouldn't mind "helping" Haiti under those conditions. Problem is they aren't looking for help, they are looking for somebody else to come along and fix the problems they aren't willing to do anything about.
If we totally wash our hands of Haiti, we would end up with Darfur in our backyard. We'll have a million Haitians seeking political asylum washing up on our beaches overnight
Damned if you do, and damned if you dont.
Personally, I dont think we should be giving a dime to Haiti as long as there are 3rd world toilets right here in the USA. Detroit, New Orleans, Chicago, New York, St. Louis ...all those places are closer to Uganda than the free republic intended by the founders
So we let them come here and try and make Darfur in our country?
We aren't damned if we don't, we simply stop investing in shit and protect ourselves from that shit when it attempts to wash ashore. I'd rather spend money on that than trying to fix a country that can't be fixed.
variablebinary
01-17-10, 15:17
We aren't damned if we don't, we simply stop investing in shit and protect ourselves from that shit when it attempts to wash ashore. I'd rather spend money on that than trying to fix a country that can't be fixed.
You know as well as I know that politicians are never going to close our borders. If Haiti goes 100% to shit, we are 100% assured to have a refugee crisis in Florida. No president, especially not Obama, is going to turn them away.
It sounds great to say, but its never going to happen.
If we cut off aid, we get more Haitians. If we give them aid, we are wasting American dollars. The USA should not be backed into a corner like this.
Let me clarify, that I am only speaking about the overall Haiti problem, not about sending humanitarian aid post-earthquake
Alpha Sierra
01-17-10, 15:41
If we totally wash our hands of Haiti, we would end up with Darfur in our backyard. We'll have a million Haitians seeking political asylum washing up on our beaches overnight
Send the Navy to kill every single one of them at sea.
I am not joking.
You know as well as I know that politicians are never going to close our borders. If Haiti goes 100% to shit, we are 100% assured to have a refugee crisis in Florida. No president, especially not Obama, is going to turn them away.
It sounds great to say, but its never going to happen.
If we cut off aid, we get more Haitians. If we give them aid, we are wasting American dollars. The USA should not be backed into a corner like this.
Let me clarify, that I am only speaking about the overall Haiti problem, not about sending humanitarian aid post-earthquake
Now I understand, you are talking in terms of the way things are. I am talking in terms of the way things should be.
Send the Navy to kill every single one of them at sea.
I am not joking.
Goodness gracious...the savagery.
:)
shootmovecomm
01-17-10, 22:06
These haitian people have the mentality of an animal.
1. What can I get to eat?
2. How fast can I run away from danger?
3. What hole am I going to find shelter in?
4. Who can I breed with?
That is how bad it is down there. A basic survival instinct.
They are even lower than turd worlders from say mexico who still live in shit but atleast halfway work to halfway support their existence.
Grand Island, NE is full of Somalis that work in the Swift slaughterhouse. They are all muslim and demand the plant be shut down on muslim holidays in addition to US legal holidays. They are also dirty and filthy. Some church group brought them in since they felt guilty for being Americans. Grand Island also has its share of mexicans working at Swift. The mexicans and somalis do not get along. Stabbings have occurred in the plants.
ICE had a raid at Swift in Grand Island and sent a bunch of mexicans home a few years ago. There were bunch of sob stories on the news about how families were being torn apart and the kids were American citizens (anchor babies) etc and how awful it was, blah, blah, blah...
Schuyler, Lexington, South Souix City, and Fremont are also full of them because Tyson, Hormel, and Cargil are located in those places.
Nebraska has the largest meat packing industry per capita than any other state and all the plants are filled with turd world losers.
Marshalltown, IA is bad too.
Lincoln, NE is a designated refugee city by the US federal govt (like Detroit) and there are all kinds of foreigners there. Very liberal place with the center of state govt and the university. Large foreigner population that is very noticeable. Whole swaths of Lincoln are run down because of it.
I graduated from college and high school in the Omaha area. Policed in that area up until 2000 and left. I watched the Sudanies flood in, the Democrats under Clinton tie the INS's hands in raiding, deporting, and prosecuting illegals and the companies that employed them and the epidemic rise of methamphetamines starting in 1989 and fully exploding by 1997. An ultra liberal Nebraska gov stood by and did nothing while becoming largely unsupportive of state and local law enforcement.
I graduated from college and high school in the Omaha area. Policed in that area up until 2000 and left. I watched the Sudanies flood in, the Democrats under Clinton tie the INS's hands in raiding, deporting, and prosecuting illegals and the companies that employed them and the epidemic rise of methamphetamines starting in 1989 and fully exploding by 1997. An ultra liberal Nebraska gov stood by and did nothing while becoming largely unsupportive of state and local law enforcement.
All led by then Governor Ben Nelson who will hopefully be voted out of his senate seat in 2012.
The Unicameral is what causes Nebraska state govt to be so liberal. There is no balance between rural and urban. All the state legislatures can be of the same stripe. There is also no official political parties in the NE unicameral.
nutnless220
01-17-10, 23:23
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