View Full Version : So did S&W get caught up in the FBI sting?
Any one have any info on the foreign bribery arrests today?
Saw that earlier but was to lazy to start a thread!
Sometimes it just doesn't pay to go to SHOT! Saw the DOJ announcement and recognized one name from iShot right off the top. Probably likely that S&W will get hit with a fine, but their officer stands to get hit with a lot more. Not a fun way to start 2010 for sure.
It appears yes.
http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2010/jan/19/fbi-arrests-21-las-vegas-foreign-bribery-case/
And the river of illegal aliens into this country continues to flow...
Business_Casual
01-19-10, 16:39
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/01/18/AR2010011803982_pf.html
I'm not a big fan of process crimes from either side, but tapping phones is something I really dislike.
M_P
It's a sad time, you can be a senator and bribe other senator's with tax money to screw tax payers of other states, but bribe a foreign official and you're looking at 20+ years.
It's a sad time, you can be a senator and bribe other senator's with tax money to screw tax payers of other states, but bribe a foreign official and you're looking at 20+ years.
Damn, you beat me to it!!!!! Senators are getting bribed with hundreds of millions of OUR ( us, the American citizen/taxpayer) dollars and these guys are looking at doing time??? :confused:
I do not advocate criminal activity on any level but find the double standard that the politicians practice reprehensible.
So who are these people?
Those who were indicted and the location of their companies included Daniel Alvirez and Lee Allen Tolleson, Bull Shoals, Ark., Helmie Ashiblie, Woodbridge, Va., Andrew Bigelow, Sarasota, Fla., R. Patrick Caldwell and Stephen Gerard Giordanella, Sunrise, Fla., Yochanan Cohen, San Francisco, Haim Geri, North Miami Beach, Fla., Amaro Goncalves, Springfield, Mass., John Gregory Godsey and Mark Frederick Morales, Decatur, Ga., Saul Mishkin, Aventura, Fla., John and Jeana Mushriqui, Upper Darby, Pa., David Painter and Lee Wares, United Kingdom, Pankesh Patel, United Kingdom, Ofer Paz, Israel, Israel Weisler and Michael Sachs, Stearns, Ky., and John Benson Wier III, St. Petersburg, Fla.
Nice,,, also good to see the Sunscam state represented so well. I do have to wonder though, why is bribery illegal for the gun guys & gals, but a daily way of getting what they want for the guys and gals in the house and senate.
So who are these people?
only name I recognize..
http://www.ishot-inc.com/HTML%202006/index-about.html
eta: mods you can edit if you feel inappropriate.
Most Americans who read these stories have never conducted any sort of relations building in international business. Right, wrong or indifferent I can tell you that in many countries I've dealt with around the world "bribes" or favors, whether monetary or otherwise, are not only considered customary but a requirement to do business.
The fines, penalties and jail time that go along with these types of ventures are not a joke and I know several people who've been through the process, including the jail time, I don't recommend it.
I also don't think that publishing the names of people who haven't been proven guilty and convicted of a crime is right either. Innocent until proven guilty was how I learned it.
It appears yes.
http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2010/jan/19/fbi-arrests-21-las-vegas-foreign-bribery-case/
Considering what we face in this country, this "sting" does not seem a good use of the FBI's resources and my/your tax dollars....
http://washingtondc.fbi.gov/dojpressrel/pressrel10/wfo011910.htm
Twenty-Two Executives and Employees of Military and Law Enforcement Products Companies Charged in Foreign Bribery Scheme
Defendants Arrested in Las Vegas and Miami; 21 Search Warrants Executed in United States and United Kingdom
WASHINGTON—Twenty-two executives and employees of companies in the military and law enforcement products industry have been indicted for engaging in schemes to bribe foreign government officials to obtain and retain business, announced Assistant Attorney General Lanny A. Breuer of the Criminal Division; U.S. Attorney Channing Phillips for the District of Columbia; and Assistant Director Kevin Perkins of the FBI’s Criminal Investigative Division. Twenty-one defendants were arrested in Las Vegas yesterday. One defendant was arrested in Miami. The indictments stem from an FBI undercover operation that focused on allegations of foreign bribery in the military and law enforcement products industry.
The 16 indictments unsealed today represent the largest single investigation and prosecution against individuals in the history of DOJ’s enforcement of the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act (FCPA), a law that prohibits U.S. persons and companies, and foreign persons and companies acting in the United States, from bribing foreign government officials for the purpose of obtaining or retaining business. The indictments unsealed today were returned on Dec. 11, 2009, by a grand jury in Washington, D.C.
In connection with these indictments, approximately 150 FBI agents executed 14 search warrants in locations across the country, including Bull Shoals, Ark.; San Francisco; Miami; Ponte Vedra Beach, Fla.; Sarasota, Fla.; St. Petersburg, Fla.; Sunrise, Fla.; University Park, Fla.; Decatur, Ga.; Stearns, Ky.; Upper Darby, Penn.; and Woodbridge, Va. Additionally, the United Kingdom’s City of London Police executed seven search warrants in connection with their own investigations into companies involved in the foreign bribery conduct that formed the basis for the indictments.
“This ongoing investigation is the first large-scale use of undercover law enforcement techniques to uncover FCPA violations and the largest action ever undertaken by the Justice Department against individuals for FCPA violations,” said Assistant Attorney General Lanny A. Breuer. “The fight to erase foreign bribery from the corporate playbook will not be won overnight, but these actions are a turning point. From now on, would-be FCPA violators should stop andponder whether the person they are trying to bribe might really be a federal agent.”
“Corrupt payments to foreign officials to obtain or retain business erode public confidence in our free market system and threaten to undermine foreign governments,” said U.S. Attorney Channing Phillips. “These indictments set forth serious allegations and reflect the Department's commitment to aggressively investigate and prosecute those who try to advance their businesses through foreign bribery.”
“Investigating corruption at all levels is the number one priority of the FBI’s Criminal Division,” said Assistant Director Kevin Perkins of the FBI’s Criminal Investigative Division. “In this era of global commerce, the FBI is committed to curbing corruption at home or overseas. Companies should prosper through honest business practices, not the practice of back room deals and bribery.”
The indictments allege that the defendants engaged in a scheme to pay bribes to the minister of defense for a country in Africa. In fact, the scheme was part of the undercover operation, with no actual involvement from any minister of defense. As part of the undercover operation, the defendants allegedly agreed to pay a 20 percent “commission” to a sales agent who the defendants believed represented the minister of defense for a country in Africa in order to win a portion of a $15 million deal to outfit the country’s presidential guard. In reality, the “sales agent” was an undercover FBI agent. The defendants were told that half of that “commission” would be paid directly to the minister of defense. The defendants allegedly agreed to create two price quotations in connection with the deals, with one quote representing the true cost of the goods and the second quote representing the true cost, plus the 20 percent “commission.” The defendants also allegedly agreed to engage in a small “test” deal to show the minister of defense that he would personally receive the 10 percent bribe.
The indictments charge the following executives and employees of the various companies in the military and law enforcement product industries:
Daniel Alvirez, 32, and Lee Allen Tolleson, 25, the president and director of acquisitions and logistics at a company in Bull Shoals, Ark., that manufactures and sells law enforcement and military equipment;
Helmie Ashiblie, 44, the vice president and founder of a company in Woodbridge, Va., that supplies tactical bags and other security-related articles for law enforcement agencies and governments worldwide;
Andrew Bigelow, 40, the managing partner and director of government programs for a Sarasota, Fla., company that sells machine guns, grenade launchers and other small arms and accessories;
R. Patrick Caldwell, 61, and Stephen Gerard Giordanella, 50, the current and former chief executive officers of a Sunrise, Fla., company that designs and manufactures concealable and tactical body armor;
Yochanan R. Cohen, aka Yochi Cohen, 47, the chief executive officer of a San Francisco company that manufactures security equipment, including body armor and ballistic plates;
Haim Geri, 50, the president of a North Miami Beach, Fla., company that serves as a sales agent for companies in the law enforcement and military products industries;
Amaro Goncalves, 49, the vice president of sales for a Springfield, Mass., company that designs and manufactures firearms, firearm safety/security products, rifles, firearms systems and accessories;
John Gregory Godsey, aka Greg Godsey, 37, and Mark Frederick Morales, 37, the owner and agent of a Decatur, Ga., company that sells ammunition and other law enforcement and military equipment;
Saul Mishkin, 38, the owner and chief executive officer of an Aventura, Fla., company that sells law enforcement and military equipment;
John M. Mushriqui, 28, and Jeana Mushriqui, 30, the director of international development and general counsel/U.S. manager of an Upper Darby, Penn., company that manufactures and exports bulletproof vests and other law enforcement and military equipment;
David R. Painter, 56, and Lee M. Wares, 43, the chairman and director of a United Kingdom company that markets armored vehicles;
Pankesh Patel, 43, the managing director of a United Kingdom company that acts as sales agent for companies in the law enforcement and military products industries;
Ofer Paz, 50, the president and chief executive officer of an Israeli company that acts as sales agent for companies in the law enforcement and military products industries;
Jonathan M. Spiller, 58, the owner and president of a Ponte Vedra Beach, Fla., company that markets and sells law enforcement and military equipment;
Israel Weisler, aka Wayne Weisler, 63, and Michael Sachs, 66, owners and co-chief executive officers of a Stearns, Ky., company that designs, manufactures and sells armor products, including body armor;
John Benson Wier III, 46, the president of a St. Petersburg, Fla., company that sells tactical and ballistic equipment.
All of the defendants except Giordanella were arrested yesterday by FBI agents in Las Vegas. Giordanella was arrested in Miami, also by FBI agents.
Each of the indictments allege that the defendants conspired to violate the FCPA, conspired to engage in money laundering, and engaged in substantive violations of the FCPA. The indictments also seek criminal forfeiture of the defendants’ ill gotten gains.
The maximum prison sentence for the conspiracy count and for each FCPA count is five years. The maximum sentence for the money laundering conspiracy charge is 20 years in prison.
These cases are being prosecuted by Assistant Chief Hank Bond Walther and Trial Attorney Laura N. Perkins of the Criminal Division’s Fraud Section, and Matthew C. Solomon of the U.S. Attorney’s Office for the District of Columbia. The cases were investigated by the FBI Washington Field Office squad that specializes in investigations into FCPA violations.
Andrew Bigelow is with Heavy Metal Armory, a class III dealer and registered ITAR exporter. I hope no one has any currently transfers pending with Andrew.
The problem I have with this is...what if these supposed foreign governments do not allow a free market system as the Gov't atty alluded to? Anyone who has worked with a foreign government knows that "gifts" are often required/customary to gain access to government officials to conduct business...
Meanwhile, why can't these 150 FBI agents investigate Congress to find out where billions of our money went? (I know that's what the GAO is for, but I'm trying to make a point here).
This is enforcement of a bad law...hopefully their trials will show that.....why is the USG trying to enforce (a bad) U.S. law on a company conducting private business with a foreign gov't? (ITAR notwithstanding)
This is enforcement of a bad law...hopefully their trials will show that.....why is the USG trying to enforce (a bad) U.S. law on a company conducting private business with a foreign gov't? (ITAR notwithstanding)
Because Eric Holder has spent his entire tenure as AG going after the US gun industry.
The FCPA has been around since the '70's. This doesn't have a thing to do with the AG. If the allegations are true, they broke the fricking law and should pay for it. Many of the names I've seen on that list were senior officials who should have known about the rules. May they all fry if they intentionally violated the law. Many of us see the costs of these bribes pushed down into the products we buy on a daily basis, not just in the firearms/shooting industry but in many other consumable products. We're all affected when these turds go out and pay off some foreign national a chunk of money to generate business overseas. Those costs get pushed back to us. F that. Fry 'em.
The FCPA has been around since the '70's.
No shit sherlock.
This doesn't have a thing to do with the AG.
How much do you want to bet on that? All goes down at the SHOT show? Arresting the number two man at S&W? A AG with a proven track record of going after the 2nd amendment?
May they all fry if they intentionally violated the law.
Oh boy, we sure got these bad guys off the street.
Many of us see the costs of these bribes pushed down into the products we buy on a daily basis, not just in the firearms/shooting industry but in many other consumable products. We're all affected when these turds go out and pay off some foreign national a chunk of money to generate business overseas. Those costs get pushed back to us. F that. Fry 'em.
Do you think HK, FN, and Izhmash have to play by these rules? And you wonder why the American gun industry on the global market has been in the toilet since 1960?
the Bamster
01-19-10, 19:40
protocal states:
a. larger bribe!
b. Go to your Senator or Corgressman and bribe them thru your
lobbyist.
Then no worries, they are guilty of not following the accepted practice in such matters........obviously they are amateurs.
Hell kick me a few bones for 2012 and I could let ya chill as a tzar of bullets or somethin.
Peace,
The Bamster
CarlosDJackal
01-19-10, 19:49
Considering what we face in this country, this "sting" does not seem a good use of the FBI's resources and my/your tax dollars....
Not only that, what they are being accused of is probably the way business is done in the African country these individuals thought they were dealing with. I know for a fact that our own government conducted business in this very same manner even in this day and age. :rolleyes:
The FCPA has been around since the '70's. This doesn't have a thing to do with the AG. If the allegations are true, they broke the fricking law and should pay for it. Many of the names I've seen on that list were senior officials who should have known about the rules. May they all fry if they intentionally violated the law. Many of us see the costs of these bribes pushed down into the products we buy on a daily basis, not just in the firearms/shooting industry but in many other consumable products. We're all affected when these turds go out and pay off some foreign national a chunk of money to generate business overseas. Those costs get pushed back to us. F that. Fry 'em.
Every one pays bribes for foreign favor, our own government pays more per year with our tax dollars than every company out there combined.
And every company that deals with foreign clients has funds for bribery, many of the larger ones have billions of dollars in these funds, it's just the cost of doing business in other countries (and this one).
The best example is the al yamamah deal.
This bust was bs and minor, $15mil... That's like taking down a pot dealer selling a few grams of marijuana, and acting as if you've taken down the gulf cartel.
It's a sting for PR and nothing more.
Belmont31R
01-19-10, 19:57
Yet Congress can bribe Senators with hundreds of millions of dollars in tax payer money, and its "legit"...they even talk about it without the least amount of moral care in the world.
AG Holder was also part of Waco. He is an extreme progressive, and very dangerous in his position. He also wants to have the authority to arbitrarily deny people their gun rights.
Bullshit. They got caught. Period. A law is a law. If/if the allegations are true, at least one of these dudes knew he was basically offering up a quote that included a percentage pay off to get the deal. He bit and big gov bit his ass back. We're supposed to turn a blind eye when certain laws that we don't necessarily agree with are broken. FRY THEM if the attempted to violate the FCPA. No mercy for those who know the laws and willingly go out and say f it.
When caught, they fry too. Some recent ones in the hopper right now if we want to pull their names, along with some senior USG officials employed at the high end of some of our federal agencies who attempted to profit from their positions. We are a nation of laws. F'ing abide by them or risk getting burned. Apparently a couple of dudes in this recent instance rolled the dice and instead of a fun time in Vegas, they get to be embarrassed and likely pay some hefty fines. The majority of these pukes, if not all of them will avoid jail time, but they get no sympathy from me.
Yet Congress can bribe Senators with hundreds of millions of dollars in tax payer money, and its "legit"...they even talk about it without the least amount of moral care in the world.
AG Holder was also part of Waco. He is an extreme progressive, and very dangerous in his position. He also wants to have the authority to arbitrarily deny people their gun rights.
When caught, they fry too. Some recent ones in the hopper right now if we want to pull their names, along with some senior USG officials employed at the high end of some of our federal agencies who attempted to profit from their positions. We are a nation of laws. F'ing abide by them or risk getting burned. Apparently a couple of dudes in this recent instance rolled the dice and instead of a fun time in Vegas, they get to be embarrassed and likely pay some hefty fines. The majority of these pukes, if not all of them will avoid jail time, but they get no sympathy from me.
I'm not defending them, but do you see any hypocrisy in allowing Ben Nelson to get 100 MILLION taxpayer dollars funneled to his state for a vote on health care?
The world is run by corrupt people. The ones who "fry" are usually the ones who are on the opposite side of those in power.
An interesting read.
http://media.masslive.com/breakingnews/other/goncalves-indictment.pdf
There will be no S&W federal contract sales for a long, long, time.
Not defending that pork belly shit either brother, but two wrongs don't make a right, and a bunch of voters put the asshats in office who play out that pay for votes crap. I'm sure there are a couple of people in Nelson's state thrilled that he's pulling in money for whatever crap they are using it there for. But that's an issue to be resolved by the voters. In this case, a specific criminal act was conducted and based on the indictment above, this dude and presumably the others clearly knew what they were doing and proceeded to do so anyway. Classic under cover operation and they got caught and now they must face the penalty. The sad thing is, an untold number of similar deals pass through without DOJ finding them and in a lot of cases the money paying for these goods are coming out of our pockets. I've trained dozens of foreign services, from Africa to Latin America and in almost all of them, their procurement budgets come from US Foreign Military Financing. So for all this asshat knew, he could have been charging the U.S. tax payer a 20% surcharge on the price of these guns just to line his own pockets or his company's.
I'm not defending them, but do you see any hypocrisy in allowing Ben Nelson to get 100 MILLION taxpayer dollars funneled to his state for a vote on health care?
The world is run by corrupt people. The ones who "fry" are usually the ones who are on the opposite side of those in power.
Not defending that pork belly shit either brother, but two wrongs don't make a right, and a bunch of voters put the asshats in office who play out that pay for votes crap. I'm sure there are a couple of people in Nelson's state thrilled that he's pulling in money for whatever crap they are using it there for. But that's an issue to be resolved by the voters. In this case, a specific alleged criminal act was conducted and based on the indictment above, this dude and presumably the others clearly knew what they were doing and proceeded to do so anyway. Classic under cover operation and they got caught and now they must face the penalty. The sad thing is, an untold number of similar deals pass through without DOJ finding them and in a lot of cases the money paying for these goods are coming out of our pockets. I've trained dozens of foreign services, from Africa to Latin America and in almost all of them, their procurement budgets come from US Foreign Military Financing. So for all this asshat knew, he could have been charging the U.S. tax payer a 20% surcharge on the price of these guns just to line his own pockets or his company's.
Fixed it for ya!
We can't bribe, so other people (like the French and Germans) bribe plenty.
At the end of the day, we can feel great for being honest Joe's, have fewer jobs, and have less money.
The long standing democrat national plan for job creation has been to kick you in the jimmy when you walk out the door, steal your wallet, harass your workplace worse than the Taliban, complain about the bad economy they created, and call you a stupid racist for not voting for them.
I have to agree with civilian, at least in principle.
Like them or not, laws are laws and must be followed.
You don't like them, work to get them changed, don't just break them.
That said, if they are big folks in an industry that does business in countries where bribes are basically required, you'd think they'd do a better job of gathering intel as to with whom they are doing business.
Know who is who.
That said, FBI has WAY better things to be doing.
And the shit going on in congress with this health care BS and other stuff...
Good to see the results in MA today.
I'm going to disagree. This is a good case, and right now a perfect case for sending a message to the rest of the industry. It doesn't matter how it is done in France, Israel, or BF Egypt, this isn't how we expect American companies to do business. This isn't a new law, it has been around a long time. Every one of these ass-clowns knew they were breaking the law and after they plead guilty (read the affidavit, in the case of S&W it is a slam dunk) they will all get hefty fines, forfeit assets, and in a few cases, deservedly go to jail. I don't have a problem with that.
Dear Sir/M,
I am Mr.David Mark. a minister with the government in charge of arming the prince's national guard. I have the courage to Crave indulgence for
this important business believing that you will never let me down
either now or in the future...
I thought everybody knew Nigerian emails were scams.
"Dear Sir/M,
I am Mr.David Mark. a minister with the government in charge of arming the prince's national guard. I have the courage to Crave indulgence for
this important business believing that you will never let me down
either now or in the future...
I thought everybody knew Nigerian emails were scams."
Now that way funny!
John_Wayne777
01-20-10, 08:20
Most Americans who read these stories have never conducted any sort of relations building in international business. Right, wrong or indifferent I can tell you that in many countries I've dealt with around the world "bribes" or favors, whether monetary or otherwise, are not only considered customary but a requirement to do business.
The US government bribes people all the time. Hell, we've even put terrorists on the payroll.
It's life.
I'm going to disagree. This is a good case, and right now a perfect case for sending a message to the rest of the industry. It doesn't matter how it is done in France, Israel, or BF Egypt, this isn't how we expect American companies to do business. This isn't a new law, it has been around a long time. Every one of these ass-clowns knew they were breaking the law and after they plead guilty (read the affidavit, in the case of S&W it is a slam dunk) they will all get hefty fines, forfeit assets, and in a few cases, deservedly go to jail. I don't have a problem with that.
Principals are grand, but if all companies followed the law we would lose millions of jobs. BAE, Boeing, Honeywell, Textron, L3 and the list goes on for ever.
I guess I don't see the problem bribing another country to create revenue for this country. It's economical warfare, how else are you going to compete with other countries? Like China in Africa, you're happy with China becoming a superpower? Because it's more important to not bribe African officials and let China bribe them instead and control the natural resources of the second largest continent on earth?
Belmont31R
01-20-10, 10:11
Not defending that pork belly shit either brother, but two wrongs don't make a right, and a bunch of voters put the asshats in office who play out that pay for votes crap. I'm sure there are a couple of people in Nelson's state thrilled that he's pulling in money for whatever crap they are using it there for. But that's an issue to be resolved by the voters. In this case, a specific criminal act was conducted and based on the indictment above, this dude and presumably the others clearly knew what they were doing and proceeded to do so anyway. Classic under cover operation and they got caught and now they must face the penalty. The sad thing is, an untold number of similar deals pass through without DOJ finding them and in a lot of cases the money paying for these goods are coming out of our pockets. I've trained dozens of foreign services, from Africa to Latin America and in almost all of them, their procurement budgets come from US Foreign Military Financing. So for all this asshat knew, he could have been charging the U.S. tax payer a 20% surcharge on the price of these guns just to line his own pockets or his company's.
I don't think you can morally enforce the law when the people making the laws these exec's are charged with violating do the same thing everyday, and take no shame in it.
Its like having a pedophile get mad another pedophile groped a kid.
Unless our own government can abide by the same moral and ethical code then they have no business attempting to prosecute citizens for doing what they do. The government is supposed to be beneath us not above us. Just like I believe if the government can own all the machine guns they want I should be able to as well. I don't like do as I say not as I do type of rules. One set of rules for them, and one for us. It does not jive with me.
Submariner
01-20-10, 10:34
Unless our own government can abide by the same moral and ethical code then they have no business attempting to prosecute citizens for doing what they do. The government is supposed to be beneath us not above us. Just like I believe if the government can own all the machine guns they want I should be able to as well. I don't like do as I say not as I do type of rules. One set of rules for them, and one for us. It does not jive with me.
Didn't you get the memo? We're back to Rex, Lex instead of Lex, Rex (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lex,_Rex). :(
Good thing Holder and DOJ aren't going after Medicare and Medicaid fraud :rolleyes:
Another angle on this sting is the continual push for the U.S. to go along with the global arms trade treaty.
And why are some people on this thread ready to convict these guys based on the indictment? I sure hope none of you are selected for the jury. Innocent until proven guilty and all that? :rolleyes:
Submariner
01-20-10, 12:58
Good thing Holder and DOJ aren't going after Medicare and Medicaid fraud :rolleyes:
And the banksters.:eek:
I understand that the letter of the law says they're not supposed to do this, but stepping back from that - what the hell do we care, and why does the U.S. government care, if a private company greases the wheels to get a contract with a foreign buyer? Really, who gives a shit? As long as they're not selling things to enemies of the U.S. (in which case the bribery isn't the real issue), I just don't see a problem here.
Philosophically, I don't see this as being any different than what pharmaceutical reps have been doing for many years, or what any sales folks do to make their clients happy.
And the banksters.:eek:
Those who invested with Bernie Madoff made more on their dollar than those who invested with Goldman Sachs, and Bernie Madoff got a life sentence... It's all about the bribe :P
May they all fry if they intentionally violated the law... F that. Fry 'em.
Unless they were supplying hostiles, I couldn't possibly care less how these folks acquired international business.
But maybe your right. A $35 fine and we call it a day.
QuietShootr
01-23-10, 21:32
Good to see we have some of the same annoying jackboot statist pricks over here like TOS. I was thinking that group was underrepresented here.
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