Glock Gen 4 Question for you guys at SHOT [Archive]

trio

01-19-10, 22:59

RAM Engineer

01-19-10, 23:08

No. Gen4 requires a new frame and slide to accomodate the new recoil spring assy.

trio

01-19-10, 23:10

No. Gen4 requires a new frame and slide to accomodate the new recoil spring assy.

well shucks...thanks for the quick answer.....maybe the old spring assemblies will be cheap now :)

skyugo

01-19-10, 23:15

is it the same recoil spring used in the 3rd gen subcompact glocks?

SWATcop556

01-19-10, 23:17

is it the same recoil spring used in the 3rd gen subcompact glocks?

Similar in concept but not the exact same.

Code3Patriot

01-20-10, 01:22

Exterior frame and slide dimensions are the same between Gen 3 and 4.

However, as stated by RAM Engineer, the new recoil assembly will not fit because it is wider than the generation 3 guide rod and spring.

The new frame is wider internally forward of the locking block and changes were made internally to the slide for it to accept the new assembly.

DacoRoman

01-22-10, 19:17

loupav

01-22-10, 22:39

I'm wondering if the Gen 4 would be available in Cali. Since I kinda want a G17 and could wait for Gen 4's to hit the shelves.

My guess is NO. :(

Irfan

01-23-10, 05:19

Is the guide rod plastic or steel? :confused:

Palmguy

01-23-10, 07:46

well shucks...thanks for the quick answer.....maybe the old spring assemblies will be cheap now :)

You mean cheaper? They're already less than $10! ;)

M4Guru

01-23-10, 07:52

The new guide rod is not entirely plastic. It has a metal sleeve between the large spring and small spring, and the rear half has a metal flange where it meets up at the locking lug. As stated above is not backwards compatible.

Stand by, I have one in my safe I will take pics of.

M4Guru

01-23-10, 08:13

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v317/M4Guru/DSC02864.jpg

Differences between Gen III G22 and Gen IV G22 recoil springs

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v317/M4Guru/DSC02865.jpg

Enlarged guide rod opening in front of slide on Gen IV G22

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v317/M4Guru/DSC02869.jpg

Mag Release. The new one is almost flat against the frame, and is about the size of a gas pedal in an F250. It's extremely easy to manipulate and is very low-profile. I like it.

Robb Jensen

01-23-10, 09:42

Will the new recoil spring assemblies be backwards compatible to the older guns?

basically, can I buy some of the gen4 g17 recoil spring assemblies for my Gen 3 guns?

from what I've seen, that spring is intended to almost be a "lifetime" spring...and since I am going to have to change a few out soon anyway, if its possible I will try and get these...

*READ...GotM4....GRAB SOME FOR ME :D*

Kev, before shot we got a few G22 Gen 4s.

Not the Gen4s are backward compatible. The slides are made here in the US and the recoil springs and slide apertures are different. IIRC the locking block are different as well as the barrel. The mag catch is reversible and longer from front to back. Older G22 mags will work in the Gen4 as long as the mag catch is set up for a right handed shooter. I talked to Dave Sevigny at length about the Gen4 and he says it shoots a lot softer. Feeling the ones we had at the store and the ones we got it the recoil spring is stiffer. The gun does come with 3 mags and is a little more expensive. I want one but I want a G19. I don't use a G17 for much of anything but I carry a G19 everywhere I can legally concealed.

We had breakfast with Lipseys (distributor) and Glock Wed morning. The Gunny was there as well as the Glock shooting team. We sat with Dave Sevignys wife and Randi Rogers husband. Nice people.

DacoRoman

01-23-10, 09:51

has anyone had a chance to see if the Gen 4 trigger bar is the same as the Gen 3's ?

also will the gen 4 G22 recoil spring assemblies be interchangeable with the G17, or are they of different weights?

thanks

Since nobody knows, I will have to succumb and expose myself to Glock Talk <Oh the Inhumanity!> :o :D

M4Guru

01-23-10, 09:55

The Gen IV trigger bar has a stamped protrusion on the FPS lifter that the GEN III does not. So no, they are not the same.

Robb Jensen

01-23-10, 10:37

has anyone had a chance to see if the Gen 4 trigger bar is the same as the Gen 3's ?

also will the gen 4 G22 recoil spring assemblies be interchangeable with the G17, or are they of different weights?

thanks

From what I understand the G17 Gen 4 and the G22 Gen 4 will use the same recoil springs just like the G22 Gen 2 & 3 share the same recoil springs with the G17 Gen 2 & 3.

SWATcop556

01-23-10, 21:25

From what I understand the G17 Gen 4 and the G22 Gen 4 will use the same recoil springs just like the G22 Gen 2 & 3 share the same recoil springs with the G17 Gen 2 & 3.

I was under the impression that the 9mm and .40 cal Glocks used different recoil springs in the Gen3. Granted I had just worked a 15 hr detail before my last recert. so I may have missed something. No one in my area carries a G22 so I don't see many of them.

Robb Jensen

01-23-10, 21:41

I was under the impression that the 9mm and .40 cal Glocks used different recoil springs in the Gen3. Granted I had just worked a 15 hr detail before my last recert. so I may have missed something. No one in my area carries a G22 so I don't see many of them.

I've been through the Glock Armorers course twice now, but I'm human and can always be wrong. I don't have my Glock armorers manual here at home but going of my recollection:

From my understanding of working on them for a living for the last 5yrs is that the G17, G17L, G22, G24, G31, G34 & G35 use the same recoil spring (I think the G37 uses the same one as these too).
The G19, G23, G32 and I believe the G38 use the same recoil spring.
The G26, G27, G33 and I believe the G39 uses the same recoil spring.
The G20, G20SF, G21 and G21SF use the same spring.
The G29, G30, G30SF and G36 use the same spring.

IIRC the only spring in the .40 Glocks vs. 9mm Glocks which is different is the mag spring.

RyanS

01-23-10, 22:27

Is there any discussion about discontinuing the Gen 3 guns? I'm wondering if parts will become an issue and if I should just make sell my old model Glocks and make a complete switch over.

JasonM

01-23-10, 22:43

...

Good to see you out there Rob!

When are you guys getting in the G17-4? and any news on a release date for a G19-4?

-J

Robb Jensen

01-23-10, 23:30

Is there any discussion about discontinuing the Gen 3 guns? I'm wondering if parts will become an issue and if I should just make sell my old model Glocks and make a complete switch over.

I believe that for a while at least the Gen 3 will still be available. At the Lipseys/Glock breakfast they said something to this effect.

Good to see you out there Rob!

When are you guys getting in the G17-4? and any news on a release date for a G19-4?

-J

Good to see you too Jason. I don't know on the delivery dates on the G17/G19 Gen 4s but I do want both.
Later,
Robb

SWATcop556

01-24-10, 01:36

I've been through the Glock Armorers course twice now, but I'm human and can always be wrong. I don't have my Glock armorers manual here at home but going of my recollection:

From my understanding of working on them for a living for the last 5yrs is that the G17, G17L, G22, G24, G31, G34 & G35 use the same recoil spring (I think the G37 uses the same one as these too).
The G19, G23, G32 and I believe the G38 use the same recoil spring.
The G26, G27, G33 and I believe the G39 uses the same recoil spring.
The G20, G20SF, G21 and G21SF use the same spring.
The G29, G30, G30SF and G36 use the same spring.

IIRC the only spring in the .40 Glocks vs. 9mm Glocks which is different is the mag spring.

Agreed. I'm at the office and don't have mine handy either. I couldn't remember for sure so now I'll have to check when I get home. I'm sure your memory is better than mine when it comes to the parts though.

Looks like I'm going to need to stock up on parts for my Gen3 guns if they are looking to phase them out for the Gen4.

SWATcop556

01-24-10, 06:11

Checked when I got home and, big suprise, Robb you're right. The 9mm and .40 cal use the same recoil spring. Sorry about that.

ST911

01-24-10, 10:40

I was under the impression that the 9mm and .40 cal Glocks used different recoil springs in the Gen3. Granted I had just worked a 15 hr detail before my last recert. so I may have missed something. No one in my area carries a G22 so I don't see many of them.

I've been through the Glock Armorers course twice now, but I'm human and can always be wrong. I don't have my Glock armorers manual here at home but going of my recollection:...
IIRC the only spring in the .40 Glocks vs. 9mm Glocks which is different is the mag spring.

That's good info. Recoil springs are the same within the frame size. I don't recall what the hybirds (G37/38/39) take.

On mag springs... 9mm and 40 mag springs are the same, with the exception of the 11-coil in the standard frame 40 and 357 Auto. Though, there is no harm in using the 11-coil in the 9mm standard frame magazine. (I believe the 11-coil was going to become the standard at some point, replacing the 10-coil altogether.)

DacoRoman

01-24-10, 20:42

Thanks for the info guys.

So then other than the recoil spring and the trigger bar, as far as internal parts go, so far as I can tell everything else is the same (except the mag release, and of course the frame).

Since the recoil spring is the same for the .40 and the 9mm, I wonder how the 17's will work with weak 9mm (WWB etc.).

Robb Jensen

01-24-10, 20:46

RyanS

01-24-10, 21:34

Ian111

01-24-10, 23:38

Has there been any discussion as to the longevity/durability/reliability of the new recoil spring versus the regular spring? I guess what I'm trying to gauge here is whether Glock compromised the spring for the sake of making the G22s work reliably with a light.

I think that's a valid question but I don't think we'll truly know for sure until we get significant numbers of the guns out there in people's hands and with significant round counts. That goes for both the new G22 and G17 versions.

Originally Posted by RyanS
Is there any discussion about discontinuing the Gen 3 guns? I'm wondering if parts will become an issue and if I should just make sell my old model Glocks and make a complete switch over.

Millions of Glocks have been produced and a significant number of them have been G17's, G22's, G19's and G23's. I think they will be around for a long time changing hands between owners. Someone will be shooting them and enterprising people will make the parts to keep them running, if for some reason Glock does stop supporting all the Gen1, 2, and 3's out there. And if they do it won't be for a long time I reckon.

As a California resident it would be great if we could get them approved here. Glock will stop making the Gen 3's and if the Gen 4's aren't approved bye bye new Glocks for Californians.

JonInWA

01-25-10, 07:41

The triggerbar on the Gen4 (at least on the G22) is the G37 triggerbar-presumably because of the "blister" on the vertical extension to ensure engagement with the firing pin safety cylinder.

The expected recoil spring life for the .40 G22 is 7500 rounds; I would assume due to it's lower recoil impulse that the same spring in the 9mm G17 will be significantly longer, although my guess is that Glock will standardize on the 7500 recommended replacement interval for all calibers.

Best, Jon

DacoRoman

01-25-10, 09:55

Locking blocks, slides and barrels are different too IIRC.

Of course; I should have thought of that (new recoil spring = new barrel interface and probably new locking block).

Well if one decides to go Gen4 at some point in the future, I guess it is better to make the conversion wholesale instead of keeping some Gen 3 guns around, as it would be nice to have total interchangeability in parts between one's pistols of the same model.

DrewH

01-25-10, 11:01

As a California resident it would be great if we could get them approved here. Glock will stop making the Gen 3's and if the Gen 4's aren't approved bye bye new Glocks for Californians.

I would hope they would be simply the newest version of the G17, G19 etc and therefore be grandfathered in. If they are considered new models I do not see how Glock could satisfy the loaded chamber indicator standards. Let alone the magazine safety, and, god forbid, the microstamping requirement, if that ever comes in to effect.

Code3Patriot

01-25-10, 13:05

I would hope they would be simply the newest version of the G17, G19 etc and therefore be grandfathered in. If they are considered new models I do not see how Glock could satisfy the loaded chamber indicator standards. Let alone the magazine safety, and, god forbid, the microstamping requirement, if that ever comes in to effect.

Correct, I spoke to a Glock LE rep at a CA armorers course in November. Being LE we're exempt from the CA DOJ handgun list, however, I inquired about the Gen4 being listed since many of my shooting buddies are non LE.

I was told they expected the Gen4 to be grandfathered in since it is technically not a new model. I have seen this happen before in CA with other factory guns (i.e. the RTF-2 models) and I expect this to be the case with the Gen4.