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View Full Version : New AR Build Short Stroking problems, requesting help.



davkenrem
01-19-10, 23:23
I took my new AR out for the first time this Saturday and had some short stroking issues.

Saturday I fired 80 rounds. The first 40 seemed to fire fine, the last 40 began to short stroke. It started with about every third round and progressed to every round.

I fired three different brands of ammo. The first 40 was UMC 55gr, the next was ATI Tactical 62gr. Monday I tried a third brand of ammo American 55gr with the same results. I used two new 30 round Magpul PMags.

The gun would fire and eject every round but would fail to load the next round causing either a partial feed or no feed at all. All brass was landing at the 5:00 position.

Between Saturday and Monday I disassembled the gun and inspected the BCG and all looked normal. No excessive carbon build up, Gas rings were not lined up. I thoroughly cleaned it and relubed it with SLIP2000 and set aside. I inspected the upper and fully cleaned it and lubed it. Nothing looked out of place. I closely inspected the FSB, thinking it might be a gas hole alignment issue due to it needing to be removed to install the FF handguard. It looked properly installed and the guy who did the work is a trusted AR Smith. Reassembled and performed a function check and all seemed well.


The gun originally had a commercial buffer tube on it but was changed to a milspec buffer tube with a Magpul CTR MilSpec.
The lower was new, unfired bought from Adco. The upper was purchase used from the Equip. Exchange on AR15.com. I had the new Midwest HG installed after purchase.

Outside temp was in the 20's.


Build Specs as follows

Rock River Arms Lower w/ Mil-Spec Trigger
Mil-Spec Buffer Tube
MagPul CTR Mil- Spec Butt Stock
Standard Buffer Carbine and Spring
Used BCM Mid-Length Upper
Rock River Bolt Carrier Group
Midwest Industries MI-T9 Handguard
MagPul PMags 30rnd
Standard FSB and A2 flash hider


Several possibilities:



Lube is congealing in the cold weather.
Gas leak some where in the upper.
Improper buffer or spring.
Used upper, bought someone else's problem.




Just a note I'm not an AR newbie. I have owned at least 10 different AR's and was an Army 11B in the early 80's so I know how to clean and lube the system and keep it running. But this baffles me.

I had one other upper that acted this way. It was a Dissy built by Tony's Uppers and I could never get it to run.

I await your input.


Thanks in advance,

kmrtnsn
01-19-10, 23:31
What buffer, what spring?

Blob
01-19-10, 23:37
Is the gas key loose?

kmrtnsn
01-19-10, 23:55
Gas key, rings; too little gas or too much buffer and spring, gonna need a bit more info here.

Iraqgunz
01-20-10, 00:07
If your BCG is thoroughly clean, wipe it down and remove the lube. Extend the bolt out from the carrier and stand it on its' face. If the bolt carrier collapses down onto the bolt the rings are bad. I would replace them anyway since this upper is used.

Check the carrier key as stated and look for any signs of bleeding near the FSB. Depending on the round count, you may have to replace the gas tube or remove it and soak it in some carbon remover.

davkenrem
01-20-10, 01:46
What buffer, what spring?

Standard Carbine buffer, un-marked, 11" spring.

http://i668.photobucket.com/albums/vv44/ahwwwjeah/2010-01-20003112.jpg

davkenrem
01-20-10, 01:51
Is the gas key loose?


When you as "Is Gas Key loose" I dissembled the bolt, inserted the gas key in bolt and checked for play. None detected.

Should I check this a different way?

davkenrem
01-20-10, 01:59
If your BCG is thoroughly clean, wipe it down and remove the lube. Extend the bolt out from the carrier and stand it on its' face. If the bolt carrier collapses down onto the bolt the rings are bad. I would replace them anyway since this upper is used.

Check the carrier key as stated and look for any signs of bleeding near the FSB. Depending on the round count, you may have to replace the gas tube or remove it and soak it in some carbon remover.

I did the BCG standing test and BCG did not collapse. The upper is used but the Bolt is new from Steve at ADCO.

As for bleeding near FSB, None detected.

I will look at the gas tube tomorrow.

davkenrem
01-20-10, 02:00
Thanks for the input. All good so far. Please keep the coming. I will post a video of the gun firing if that will help.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LV-xJBE5tVM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LV-xJBE5tVM)

Iraqgunz
01-20-10, 02:29
I would like for any leakage around the bolt carrier where the carrier key meets with it. Also, use an allen wrench and see if the screws will move.

As for checking the gas tube, it's not really that easy. I would either soak it in something that is known to remove the carbon or I would just get a new tube.


When you as "Is Gas Key loose" I dissembled the bolt, inserted the gas key in bolt and checked for play. None detected.

Should I check this a different way?

Hound_va
01-20-10, 20:39
When you as "Is Gas Key loose" I dissembled the bolt, inserted the gas key in bolt and checked for play. None detected.

Should I check this a different way?

I'm not quite I understand what you did, but the gas key is held on to the bolt carrier with two screws. It is the part that sticks up off the top of the carrier and mates up with the gas tube when the carrier is in the rifle. There should be no movement on the part sticking up off of the bolt carrier (gas key) and both screws should be tight.

CoryCop25
01-20-10, 20:50
Very thoroughly inspect your gas tube. You have an upper that is used and had a different bolt carrier group running on it. The tip of the gas tube could be deformed and gas could be bleeding from it as it is sitting in the new gas key.

Belmont31R
01-20-10, 21:11
Aside from checking the components of the gun I would shoot some actual 5.56 ammo through it. Some sort of M193 variant would be ideal.


UMC is well known for being some the weakest ammo out there.

davkenrem
01-21-10, 10:23
I'm not quite I understand what you did, but the gas key is held on to the bolt carrier with two screws. It is the part that sticks up off the top of the carrier and mates up with the gas tube when the carrier is in the rifle. There should be no movement on the part sticking up off of the bolt carrier (gas key) and both screws should be tight.

Ignore what I said, I was talking about the cam pin mistakenly.

davkenrem
01-21-10, 10:28
Very thoroughly inspect your gas tube. You have an upper that is used and had a different bolt carrier group running on it. The tip of the gas tube could be deformed and gas could be bleeding from it as it is sitting in the new gas key.


I took it apart and cleaned it thoroughly last night and looked at stuff you guys mentioned.

The gas key is tight and properly staked.
The gas tube in the upper looks clean and normal, no deformation.

I'll see about a new Gas tube.

jwfuhrman
01-21-10, 11:12
I had the same problem with my SBR build. I finally took the Troy rail off to find that the barrel nut was off to the side just slighty, which was putting pressure on the gas tube. I replaced the gas tube and tightened the barrel nut down and that seems to have fixed my problems.

davkenrem
01-21-10, 15:34
Took the gun into ADCO this afternoon. Handed to Steve and told him the problem and he looked at it for a second and said, "Here's the problem". When my gunsmith took off the FSB to install the handguard, he did not reinstall the pin that holds the gas tube.The tube had slide back a little. I looked at it several times and never noticed the pin missing.http://www.ar15.com/images/smilies/icon_smile_blush.gifhttp://www.ar15.com/images/smilies/icon_smile_blush.gif I knew there was a hole there but missed that that there should have been a roll pin in there. Dumb on my part. I'm sure it will function now.

http://www.ar15.com/images/smilies/icon_smile_big.gifhttp://www.ar15.com/images/smilies/icon_smile_big.gifhttp://www.ar15.com/images/smilies/icon_smile_big.gifhttp://www.ar15.com/images/smilies/icon_smile_big.gifSteve installed a roll pin for free. ADCO is No#1. I'm glad they are in my town.http://www.ar15.com/images/smilies/icon_smile_big.gifhttp://www.ar15.com/images/smilies/icon_smile_big.gifhttp://www.ar15.com/images/smilies/icon_smile_big.gifhttp://www.ar15.com/images/smilies/icon_smile_big.gif


Thanks for all the help guys.

Mark this one closed!!!

Iraqgunz
01-22-10, 03:04
Holy shit. I guess I would be rethinking my choice of gunsmiths in the future.



Took the gun into ADCO this afternoon. Handed to Steve and told him the problem and he looked at it for a second and said, "Here's the problem". When my gunsmith took off the FSB to install the handguard, he did not reinstall the pin that holds the gas tube.The tube had slide back a little. I looked at it several times and never noticed the pin missing.http://www.ar15.com/images/smilies/icon_smile_blush.gifhttp://www.ar15.com/images/smilies/icon_smile_blush.gif I knew there was a hole there but missed that that there should have been a roll pin in there. Dumb on my part. I'm sure it will function now.

http://www.ar15.com/images/smilies/icon_smile_big.gifhttp://www.ar15.com/images/smilies/icon_smile_big.gifhttp://www.ar15.com/images/smilies/icon_smile_big.gifhttp://www.ar15.com/images/smilies/icon_smile_big.gifSteve installed a roll pin for free. ADCO is No#1. I'm glad they are in my town.http://www.ar15.com/images/smilies/icon_smile_big.gifhttp://www.ar15.com/images/smilies/icon_smile_big.gifhttp://www.ar15.com/images/smilies/icon_smile_big.gifhttp://www.ar15.com/images/smilies/icon_smile_big.gif


Thanks for all the help guys.

Mark this one closed!!!