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View Full Version : My thoughts on the S&W M&P



tire iron
03-26-07, 22:06
Alright - I finally got one of these for myself. After shooting many rounds through the M&P series - through six different M&P handguns - I have taken the plunge.

With my own personal M&P I have shot it one handed, limp wristed, sideways, upside down, in every position I could think of - and I haven't been able to get it to malf. I can't say that about my Glocks - as anyone who has ever been around Glocks is well aware of Glock's inability to properly function if one doesn't have a firm wrist. Especially when teaching new shooters on the Glock - particularly females and small statured males.

When my 8 year old son shoots a Glock - it will malf at least once or twice per mag. He is not big/strong enough to hold it more firm. He ALWAYS uses a firm two hand hold with the Glock. EVERYTIME he tries one handed - the Glock malfs. EVERYTIME.

OTOH - he can shoot the M&P one handed with ZERO malfunctions.

What this means to me is if my hand/arm is hurt/partially disabled - I *KNOW* my M&P will run. I have doubts about the Glock in circumstances like that.

The M&P seems to be immune from limp wristing. That is good.

I have only put 500 training rounds through my own personal M&P - as well as a 100 of my carry rounds (Win Ranger RA40T). My M&P is SCARY accurate. More accurate than ANY of my Glocks - no matter the barrel length. My M&P is almost as accurate as an match tuned 1911.

Trigger pull is heavier/longer than I really like - the good thing with the M&P is the trigger is able to be adjusted by a smith to create a shorter length of pull and a shorter reset as well as a lighter trigger pull. I will send mine off to get a trigger job in the next few months.

Having said that - the trigger pull is not excessively long nor hard. The reset on my M&P is discernible - although I have shot a few M&P's whose reset was less discernible than mine - and I have shot M&P's that have had a more discernible reset than mine.

Recoil *seems * to be less than that of the Glock series. I shot my M&P with my Glock 23, G22 and G35 - and the M&P has less muzzle flip than either the G23 and G22 - it was about on par with the G35. I was able to get faster splits with my M&P than the G23 or G22.

I *REALLY* like the fact that the trigger doesn't stay back after pulling it in dry fire mode like the Glock does. This allows me to practice multiple trigger pulls during dry fire practice. Yeah - it will only drop the striker once - and after that the trigger is pulled without any sound - but that is OK with me! I don't need to hear the striker fall with every trigger pull - I just need my finger to pull the trigger without moving the sights. So the M&P makes it easier to dry fire than the Glock.

The M&P *feels* better in my hand. It is more ergonomic for me.

Another point that is important to me is that S&W doesn't have the elitist attitude Springfield Armory and Ruger do about spare parts.

Every spare part for the S&W M&P is available through Brownells and others - so stocking up on spares is no problem.

Glocks are 100% reliable.

M&P's are 100% reliable.

Glock's chambers in .40 are not fully supported (while in 9mm and .45 they are)

M&P's chambers in .40 ARE fully supported (as well as in 9mm and .45)

Glock spare parts are available.

M&P spare parts are available.

Glock has excellent customer service.

M&P has excellent customer service.

Glock's has one frame/grip style.

M&P comes with three interchangable backstraps to fit to the shooter.

The only thing I didn't like about my M&P was the "beavertail".

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v178/tire_iron/Smith/209000_large.jpg

Here is picture of a M&P as it comes from the factory.


Well - after a few minutes with Mr. Dremel tool - followed by a fine file - I have removed the "beavertail" from my M&P.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v178/tire_iron/Smith/SWMPsmall.jpg

My hand isn't delicate - it is more on the "beefy" side - but after holding the M&P it was clear to me that my hand would never contact the end of the beavertail. Also - S&W removed the beavertail from the compact model - so I used a picture of the compact model as a guide and removed the beavertail. Now it "prints" less for CCW.

I have been singing the praises of Glock since my first 1st Gen G17 back in 1987 - it has been my "go to" type pistol for twenty years. However - for my needs - the S&W M&P is simply a better a pistol. It has all the assets of the Glock - plus none of the liabilities.

So - my Glocks have now been titled as "safe queens" - that I will hand down to my children as they get old enough to get CCW permits.

I will be acquiring a Compact M&P 40 next month - and full size and compact M&P 9 in the months following - and I will sell my custom Springfield 1911 to get the M&P .45 too.

The assimilation has begun.

As a closing note - it does feel odd singing the praises of S&W (their previous attempts at auto’s has been less than stellar) - but it also feels GOOD to sing the praises of one of the oldest American firearm makers no only equaling but actually beating the Europeans at their own game!

cheers

tire iron

Robb Jensen
03-26-07, 22:08
I agree. The M&P is both more easily shot accurately and is more accurate than a factory Glock.

M4arc
03-30-07, 09:20
Just a few points I want to touch on:

1. The M&P chamber isn't fully supported. It might be more supported but it isn't fully supported. In fact I've already heard of one 6 o'clock case rupture where the M&P was damaged do to a possible double charge. The extractor was chipped, the extractor pin was broken and the spring was gone and the striker was bent.

2. Even though Brownell's carries spare parts there availability is still very scarce. I suspect this will get better with time but it's not the bonanza of parts and accessories yet.

Bulldog1967
03-30-07, 16:15
I just dropped ALL of my Glocks at VA Arms for consignment. The 17/19/21 and all mags/holsters are there.


I did several side by side comparisons at the range over the course of a month.

The result was my groups with the M&P were TWICE as tight as the Glocks.

That's why they're gone.

Can't wait until the M&P .45 comes out. :D

tire iron
03-30-07, 16:34
M4arc,

Question - and this is a legitimate technical question - not a smart azz one - here is a pic of my M&P40's barrel with a round in the chamber -

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v178/tire_iron/Smith/MPChamber.jpg

- the question is - how much deeper does the round have to be in the chamber before it is considered "fully supported"??

Thanks,

tire iron

Paulinski
03-30-07, 16:38
While its my $0.02 I still prefer Glocks over M&P. To me M&P pistol just looks horrible. I know looks are the last thing that matters but I could not bring myself into owning one.

Anyways nice pistol and good writeup.

Paul

graffex
03-30-07, 16:50
All these M&P threads sure are making me question my G17 purchase a few months back when I almost got the M&P :eek:

Dport
03-30-07, 17:03
tire iron,
The answer to your question is "revolver deep."

tire iron
03-30-07, 17:24
dport,

So you mean totally encasing the rim too?

cheers

tire iron

Dport
03-30-07, 17:30
dport,

So you mean totally encasing the rim too?

cheers

tire iron

I would say everything up to the rim.

tire iron
03-30-07, 17:42
Roger that.

I appreciate the clarification.

cheers

tire iron

SuicideHz
03-30-07, 18:04
I can't bring myself to buy a SW due to their SHITTY CS I encountered regarding my 1911 that they had for 7-8 weeks before I had to insist on a full refund. They only refunded my money out of utter laziness...

M4arc
03-30-07, 20:21
What dport said.

I think the thing to keep in mind is that automatics need to have some sort of ramping in order to feed reliably. That leaves a bit of case exposed at the 6 o'clock location. Yes, the M&P has more chamber in that area than the Glocks but they are still susceptible to case ruptures.

S&W took at a look at the Glock and realized that was a weakness and added more support so that's good for us M&P owners, especially M&P40 owners, but as one person has found out they are not fully supported.

How about we use the term more-partially-supported? :D

BTW - Congrats on the new M&P!

M4arc
03-30-07, 20:23
I can't bring myself to buy a SW due to their SHITTY CS I encountered regarding my 1911 that they had for 7-8 weeks before I had to insist on a full refund. They only refunded my money out of utter laziness...

I hear ya Suicide but I don't think their 1911 CS is in any way related to their M&P CS. I've seen dozens of folks on mp-pistol.com get immediate and satisfactory service when it came to their MPs.

bullitt5172
03-30-07, 22:16
I recently picked up a M&P9 and as much as I like my Glocks, the Smith is a little better in nearly all categories. I hope the mags come down in price, closer to the Glock prices. The trigger in mine is also very gritty (the firing pin block plunger seems to be rough??), hopefully this can be fixed by a trigger job by either Burwell or Bowie.

All in all, the Smith is one sweet polymer pistol.

SuicideHz
03-30-07, 22:24
for the price Bud's Gunshop had them, I was going to buy at least one but that was when my 1911 went out for service.

Are they REALLY separate entities in the SW company? I'm not so much worried that I'd get bad customer service again or that I'd need it in the first place. I just don't believe in giving a company more money after the clusterf@#k they caused with the first one.

Resq47
03-30-07, 22:35
I'm holding out the for .45, after that it's going to be all downhill...

VA_Dinger
04-01-07, 00:53
My only problem with the M&P is the price of mags. The best I've done is $32 each and this breaks my cheap ass heart. I so miss $12 Glock mags.

I'm certianly no Vihn but I just flat out shoot the M&P "Better" - even with the stock trigger.

Resq47
04-01-07, 01:06
Could still be worse on the mags (HK et al), and the metal bodies manipulate so well I think they're worth a few bucks more. My gripe with the M&P is the same problem I have with every S&W I've shot, the trigger shoe hits me wrong with my index. I'll get over it or build a callous in exchange for a reasonably sized, made in the USA, not-adapted from Croat design, .45ACP double stack ;)

Well, that gripe and the reset that's completely unfamiliar to me. I can train that out too...

I just noticed yesterday how cheap the backstraps are from Brownells. Definitely cheap enough to destroy a few perfecting DIY texturing technique.

xenophobe
04-02-07, 06:49
Smith finally almost got it 100% right. I guess there is a guy out there that does trigger jobs that tightens them up and makes for a shorter reset... comparable to a nicely worn in P99 AS.

.45fmjoe
04-05-07, 11:09
I saw a tour of the factory last night on the Outdoor Channel. The CNC machinery looks pretty amazing. Anyway, at first I was like "meh," given the stellar history of the Sigma line. Then of course I was still a bit peeved over the whole Clinton-era stuff.

S&W is obviously spending a lot of money on advertising (watch the Outdoor Channel for more than 5 minutes lol) and they are really emphasizing the difference between the bastard S&W and the new American owned S&W. The only thing that I noticed was nobody from S&W actually came out and said the M&P is for you citizen folks, too. The host, I can't remember his name, said the "compact was meant as a back-up for law enforcement, or concealed carry by folks like me and you." I assume, though, by the fact that all their advertising was meant for us regular folks, that it is implied.

Anyway, I'll break down and pick one up this year for sure. Without the lock or magazine disconnect safety, of course.