View Full Version : WHO USE AR15 BC CARBON SCRAPPER?
HOW MANY OF YOU GUYS USE THE AR15 BOLT CARRIER CARBON SCRAPPER? I read the cleaning sticky. Its been a while and I'm on the verge of doing the dirty deed with 4 AR's. Can you damage your Carrier with one? I looked at the one that looks like a screw driver, don't really understand its function. Do you just ream with it?
I know I have cleaned my guns and left carbon, so I wanted to get some feedback.
Do you like to soak it first with CLP? Or does that even help with Carbon build up? I am concerned with doing damage.
Your thoughts on the subject:confused:. Thanks
pb
Best tool I have found for cleaning the bolt carrier and the 'tail' on the bolt, which is tough to clean
http://www.catm4.com/
I'm a bit OCD'ish and actually scrape the carbon off of the bolt tail as well as in the bolt carrier.
The tools that I use are:
1) .45ACP spent brass for bolt
2) 5.56 USGI stripper clip with brass insert removed for cleaning out the bottom of the bolt cavity in the carrier.
I use a catm4 also, only on the bolt tail, no issues there. Since my carrier is chrome lined I'm not going to use it there.
i've always just used a razor blade to scrape the carbon off the bolt, and a pick to dig it out of the carrier. i have no experience with the carbon removal tools.
i wouldn't use anything that will take the parker off the bolt or damage the chrome in the carrier. some of these things "polish" the bolt, for instance- bolts are parkerized to resist corrosion, if you remove that from a low-wear/high-carbon area of the bolt, you're just going to make it easier to corrode.
I am in the process of arranging an online review of the Magna-Matic AR15 Carbon Scraper. Don’t have a time frame yet, still have the details to iron out with the mfgr.
Your supposed to remove carbon from the bolt? Since when?
Your supposed to remove carbon from the bolt? Since when?
about 50 years ago.
I've used the tool and it works mostly because it's able to reach inside the carrier more than most tools you'd typically use as an alternative. Spray the carrier with some CLP or brake cleaner, let it soak a minute or two, and go to town. It works perfectly then. Although Botach sent out an email showing off this new tool recently:
http://www.botachtactical.com/m4ct.html
I'll have to try the C.A.T. as well.
"Do not concern yourself with the carbon buildup on the bolt's tail" per Pat Rogers' article called Keep It Running from SWAT Magazine, Dec. 2006. However, do remove carbon from the "bolt cam pin slot, inside of the bolt carrier (yeah, that chrome-lined thing where the bolt goes in) and the bottom of the bolt carrier itself."
The pdf is here and elsewhere on the web:
www.ar15.com/content/swat/keepitrunning.pdf
I have a CATM4. My favorite piece of cleaning gear.
I got a CATM4 for Christmas. Haven't used it yet. It sure looks like it will cut down on my cleaning time, though, since when I do clean my guns, I tend to clean every speck off. Old habit, I guess. ;)
I've always found that with a properly lubed carbine, the only "tool" required to remove carbon buildup is a rag. YMMV. ;)
MBR
I've always found that with a properly lubed carbine, the only "tool" required to remove carbon buildup is a rag. YMMV. ;)
MBR
i dont care how loobed your stick is, you cannot remove bolt tail or carrier carbon with a rag.
And you would know this how? I didnt see you last time I cleaned my "stick". Or were you watching from the shadows? ;) Youd be surprised at how well Tetra keeps gunk from sticking. :D
MBR
And you would know this how?
MBR
because if anything worked that good, it'd be the most amazing loob ever created. it'd be big news.
you cant prevent carbon buildup in the carrier or bolt tail because no loob will stay in place after being blasted with 15,000 PSI of hot carbon gas via the gas key. there are a multitude of lubricants that do a perfectly adequate job at keeping the rest of the action fluid, but the gas chamber is exclusive.
Honestly.... why be concerned with the junk on the bolt tail? Has it ever been the cause of a failed rifle? I was told by someone on this site a year or so back that the bolt tail was not needed to be cleaned, and in my last couple thousand rounds.... I have not touched mine.
I'm collecting/growing bolt tail carbon to see when a failure will occur!
All I can tell you is I keep my rifle well lubed with Tetra...meaning a few drops in the carrier vent holes every 500 rounds or so. I clean every 2k rounds or so...after shooting an average of 100 rounds or so every outing. I clean the bolt with a rag soaked with Hoppe's...and it cleans ALL carbon off the tail. If you dont believe it thats up to you...I couldn't care less one way or the other. But until you try it, please don't call me a liar. Enjoy scraping ur bolt! :p
MBR
There was a lengthy thread about cleaning the carbon off the tail and from the carrier within the last year.
White-glove inspection is much nonsense, intended to busy otherwise bored or idle hands and satisfy antiquated ideations of what weapons cleaning and readiness should be.
Knock the chunks off. Clean the chamber. Wipe it out. Lube it well. If you're spending more than five or ten minutes cleaning a service gun, you're overdoing it.
Littlelebowski
01-21-10, 11:15
Waste of time and money.
Solution looking for a problem. Wouldn't waste the $$$.
There was a lengthy thread about cleaning the carbon off the tail and from the carrier within the last year.
White-glove inspection is much nonsense, intended to busy otherwise bored or idle hands and satisfy antiquated ideations of what weapons cleaning and readiness should be.
Knock the chunks off. Clean the chamber. Wipe it out. Lube it well. If you're spending more than five or ten minutes cleaning a service gun, you're overdoing it.
Waste of time and money.
Solution looking for a problem. Wouldn't waste the $$$.
"Do not concern yourself with the carbon buildup on the bolt's tail" per Pat Rogers' article called Keep It Running from SWAT Magazine, Dec. 2006. However, do remove carbon from the "bolt cam pin slot, inside of the bolt carrier (yeah, that chrome-lined thing where the bolt goes in) and the bottom of the bolt carrier itself."
The pdf is here and elsewhere on the web:
www.ar15.com/content/swat/keepitrunning.pdf
Honestly.... why be concerned with the junk on the bolt tail? Has it ever been the cause of a failed rifle? I was told by someone on this site a year or so back that the bolt tail was not needed to be cleaned, and in my last couple thousand rounds.... I have not touched mine.
I'm collecting/growing bolt tail carbon to see when a failure will occur!
Your supposed to remove carbon from the bolt? Since when?
we know.
I clean the carbon off my bolt tail as a preventative measure against this.....
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2690/4271481234_40e29f53fd_o.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2690/4271481206_0c2afbc09c_o.jpg
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4041/4270736097_814c989007_o.jpg
I can't comment on the effectiveness of these types of tools but I have been curious. I typically just use a brush after soaking the bolt in Hoppes9
All I can tell you is I keep my rifle well lubed with Tetra...meaning a few drops in the carrier vent holes every 500 rounds or so. I clean every 2k rounds or so...after shooting an average of 100 rounds or so every outing. I clean the bolt with a rag soaked with Hoppe's...
I haven't used Tetra so I can't say anything about it. I mostly use some combo of CLP, Militec, and Hoppes Oil. You say your rifle stays carbon free, I believe you. But you seriously strip the bcg down every 100 rounds while you are out shooting??? Damn man that seems like overkill, a big waste of time, and a huge pain in the ass.
nogoodnamesleft
01-21-10, 18:02
I clean the carbon off my bolt tail as a preventative measure against this.....
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2690/4271481234_40e29f53fd_o.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2690/4271481206_0c2afbc09c_o.jpg
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4041/4270736097_814c989007_o.jpg
Is that pitting of the metal or is it carbon fouling on top of the metal? I can't tell from the picture.
Is that pitting of the metal or is it carbon fouling on top of the metal? I can't tell from the picture.
What you see is pitting, which under the right circumstances, can be the result of carbon left to build up on the bolt tail. The pitting was discovered after the carbon build-up was removed.
I can't comment on the effectiveness of these types of tools but I have been curious. I typically just use a brush after soaking the bolt in Hoppes9
I haven't used Tetra so I can't say anything about it. I mostly use some combo of CLP, Militec, and Hoppes Oil. You say your rifle stays carbon free, I believe you. But you seriously strip the bcg down every 100 rounds while you are out shooting??? Damn man that seems like overkill, a big waste of time, and a huge pain in the ass.
no.. he said he shoots 100 rounds per session, and cleans every 2000 rounds.
Call me silly, but a bolt is a normal maintenance item. Most of us stock these normal wear items. Even a hobby shooter like me has spares!
Long before my bolt will rust away, it will be in a trash can. I don't see a reason to run 10,000 rounds through a part that takes on that abuse and costs less than a few hours at the local dive bar. I just don't have time in my life to care about such nit-picky things as carbon on the bolt tail or carbon on my car's exhaust valves. Both are about as detrimental..... But, you all go and buy that tool and clean the dog-snot out of your gun. It makes YOU feel good, and really, that is exactly waht this is about. Many (most?) of us do this because we enjoy it! So if you have a good time making your rifle a sparkling clean hot rod bullet spraying machine each time out, go and have it. Just enjoy it while your doing it!
Keep happy, enjoy your passion, and do what makes you as an individual happy. That is all we can do fellows!
no.. he said he shoots 100 rounds per session, and cleans every 2000 rounds.
I clean every 2k rounds or so...after shooting an average of 100 rounds or so every outing. I clean the bolt with a rag soaked with Hoppe's...
MBR
My bad. I blew right past the period and read it all wrong. I read it as after every 100 rounds of each session (so 5 times in a 500 round session), he stripped down the bcg and wiped off the bolt and then cleaned the whole rifle every 2000 rounds. I get it now. It rained here all day but there definitely wasn't a reading rainbow:p
bkb- Not feeling the love my brother.;)
Littlelebowski
01-22-10, 06:04
Funny how so many of us don't obsessively overclean and don't have pitting. I wonder if that Pat Rogers guy was onto something?
Each individual has their own personal standard of cleanliness. A level at which they feel comfortable with. Would I insult or ridicule someone who doesn’t clean their weapon to the standard I feel comfortable with? No, of course I wouldn’t. Their weapon is not my property, therefore I could care less.
Now, does the possibility exist of carbon build-up contributing to bolt tail corrosion? It sure does, the proof is posted above.
Now the question is.....are you willing to take that risk with your weapon? Me personally? My answer is no.
I'm with Quib on this one. While my bolt might not ever rust in half, nor fail to cycle if I don't clean all the carbon off the tail or BCG (but it very well could), I prefer to clean EVERYTHING off of the rifle, that wasn't put on it at the factory, every 500-1000 rounds, when practical. It just makes sense to me, and PMCS is a regular part of my everyday life anyway. I guess I was just brought up that way, and taught to have my rifle as ready as it can be, in the Army. No, I don't spend a lot of time uselessly scrubbing guns. Some people waste a lot of time watching reality TV, and or hanging at bars. I spend just enough time to watch TV, consume brew, (multitasker), and clean my guns when they need it. Some people 'waste' a lot of time on things that I consider useless in general. Cleaning tools are not in that category, IMHO. I kill two or three birds with one stone, and know that my guns will work when I need them.
Littlelebowski
01-22-10, 08:14
It is certainly not "proven" that obsessively scraping metal helps your AR15 nor is it proven that the carbon corrodes the metal in the fashion you claim it does. Most folks on this forum have gotten past white glove cleanings and there's as many examples as you'd like of folks that don't clean the carbon and don't have corrosion issues. I don't clean the bolt tail of my 5.45 AR even when shooting corrosive ammo and I do NOT have any corrosion; all I do is rinse with hot water and add lube.
The Marine Corps taught me some good things in Boot Camp and some very silly things that will harm the rifle. I have enough sense to realize that.
Pat Rogers has pointed out many, many times how through experience from combat, being a career Marine, and countless training classes, he's seen more rifles damaged from overcleaning than undercleaning.
However, it's your rifles. Do it if it makes you feel better but meanwhile, I won't be watching reality TV and I will be doing other, more productive things.
It is certainly not "proven" that obsessively scraping metal helps your AR15 nor is it proven that the carbon corrodes the metal in the fashion you claim it does. Most folks on this forum have gotten past white glove cleanings and there's as many examples as you'd like of folks that don't clean the carbon and don't have corrosion issues. I don't clean the bolt tail of my 5.45 AR even when shooting corrosive ammo and I do NOT have any corrosion; all I do is rinse with hot water and add lube.
The Marine Corps taught me some good things in Boot Camp and some very silly things that will harm the rifle. I have enough sense to realize that.
Pat Rogers has pointed out many, many times how through experience from combat, being a career Marine, and countless training classes, he's seen more rifles damaged from overcleaning than undercleaning.
However, it's your rifles. Do it if it makes you feel better but meanwhile, I won't be watching reality TV and I will be doing other, more productive things.
Ok, great. Do want you want. I am sure it will work out for you. Remember, though, Pat, is a guy that shoots a LOT, probably almost everyday. His round count cleaning interval may effectively be chronologically much different than yours and mine, and many others. He probably replaces his bolts (for free) before they get enough carbon accumulation to matter, anyway. Some folks like to care for firearms for the long term, and no, I am NOT over-cleaning my guns, at the intervals that I clean them. If you rely on guns for your life in your eveyday job, more time is probably devoted to caring for those weapons (I get paid to clean it, if I care to do it on duty). If you don't care, then you don't care, more power to ya. I am sure your gun will be just fine.
Littlelebowski
01-22-10, 08:50
Yup, I just shoot at targets since I'm a civilian now though my guns go bang every time. Was that supposed to be an insult or are you trying to say those that use their weapons for work should do as you do?
Yup, I just shoot at targets since I'm a civilian now though my guns go bang every time. Was that supposed to be an insult or are you trying to say those that use their weapons for work should do as you do?
No, no insult intended. I will repeat a quote from my above post:
"If you rely on guns for your life in your eveyday job, more time is probably devoted to caring for those weapons"
You said you don't care to clean your bolt tail. I was simply pointing out that different people, have different needs for their guns, that may dictate different levels of PMCS. That is all. Thank you for your service.
ETA: I did edit my previous post, because I can see how it could be taken as an insult. I do apoligize. Its fixed.
Littlelebowski
01-22-10, 09:00
All's well that ends well.
If I had a decent camera, I'd post pics of my dirty 5.45 boat tail. It's surprisingly clean.
It is certainly not "proven" that obsessively scraping metal helps your AR15 nor is it proven that the carbon corrodes the metal in the fashion you claim it does. Most folks on this forum have gotten past white glove cleanings and there's as many examples as you'd like of folks that don't clean the carbon and don't have corrosion issues. I don't clean the bolt tail of my 5.45 AR even when shooting corrosive ammo and I do NOT have any corrosion; all I do is rinse with hot water and add lube.
The Marine Corps taught me some good things in Boot Camp and some very silly things that will harm the rifle. I have enough sense to realize that.
Pat Rogers has pointed out many, many times how through experience from combat, being a career Marine, and countless training classes, he's seen more rifles damaged from overcleaning than undercleaning.
However, it's your rifles. Do it if it makes you feel better but meanwhile, I won't be watching reality TV and I will be doing other, more productive things.
why does it irritate you to the point that you'll actually start an internet argument over people failing to follow the herd about cleaning? nobody ever indicated they were doing anything close to "over cleaning." nobody in this thread has advocated white-gloving. you're exaggerating the situation.
it takes 5 minutes to scrape carbon off your gun. and, carefully done, it does zero wear- does substantially less wear than some of the corrosion i've seen. i'd be happy to take pictures of my bolts for you... no wear in the parker, and, of course, no pitting.
Littlelebowski
01-22-10, 13:50
It helps not at all in my experience and is a waste of time but go ahead and do it if you like.
RogerinTPA
01-22-10, 15:22
Ok, great. Do want you want. I am sure it will work out for you. Remember, though, Pat, is a guy that shoots a LOT, probably almost everyday. His round count cleaning interval may effectively be chronologically much different than yours and mine, and many others. He probably replaces his bolts (for free) before they get enough carbon accumulation to matter, anyway. Some folks like to care for firearms for the long term, and no, I am NOT over-cleaning my guns, at the intervals that I clean them. If you rely on guns for your life in your eveyday job, more time is probably devoted to caring for those weapons (I get paid to clean it, if I care to do it on duty). If you don't care, then you don't care, more power to ya. I am sure your gun will be just fine.
During a recent class, outside of demonstrating a shooting technique or drill, he surprisingly didn't shoot that much. He does have several ARs from various manufacturers, that he lets the students shoot for T&E. He has a box of various Mags, Bolts, RDSs, etc... with different designs, covering a decades or two, that have failed or hasn't failed. Showing the product improvements since that particular brand came into being, etc... He wants to know what the failure point of each weapon, RDS, Mag, etc... I shot one of his T&E BCM Middy's and it had 14,000 rounds through it, without ever being cleaned, plus, my 1400 rounds of Wolf 62gr HP Black Box. Another T&E weapon had 24K rounds through it and only cleaned once. He provides feedback to the manufacturers on how they hold up and what breaks during a carbine course. The students and the manufacturers, all benefit from that knowledge. You're right though, his cleaning schedule is much worse than mine. I only clean ever 3000 rounds, maybe.:)
Why would I use one when I can use 3 USGI cleaning rod sections bundled up to scrape the carbon from the bolt cavity, and 2 SxS to scrape the other end? Try it, they're cheap, most everyone has a set and it really works well.
Littlelebowski
01-22-10, 20:05
Why would I use one when I can use 3 USGI cleaning rod sections bundled up to scrape the carbon from the bolt cavity, and 2 SxS to scrape the other end? Try it, they're cheap, most everyone has a set and it really works well.
Do you not see what is wrong with scraping steel on steel machined, tightly fit parts?
What do you think you are helping by doing this? Be specific.
unless he's got a really old school set, they're aluminum.. cant hurt steel with aluminum.
editted to correct typo
CharlieMike
01-22-10, 23:30
I decided to try the M4CRST and it is the best $15 I've spent in a long time.
Do you not see what is wrong with scraping steel on steel machined, tightly fit parts?
What do you think you are helping by doing this? Be specific.
It's more of a slip fit. Stack 3 rods in a triangular fashion, scrape a few spins, lay small patch over ends of rods, wipe out. If the bolt was lubed up properly it comes clean rather fast. Cleaning rods are fairly soft steel.
Heavy Metal
01-22-10, 23:37
It wasn't the carbon that pitted that bolt, I am sure it was lack of lube.
I pull the bolt slightly to the rear and shoot lube behind the gas rings after every shooting session and have never found pitting on my bolts.
unless he's got a really old school set, they're aluminum.. can hurt steel with aluminum.
I've never seen an aluminum GI cleaning rod.
Belmont31R
01-22-10, 23:59
During a recent class, outside of demonstrating a shooting technique or drill, he surprisingly didn't shoot that much. He does have several ARs from various manufacturers, that he lets the students shoot for T&E. He has a box of various Mags, Bolts, RDSs, etc... with different designs, covering a decades or two, that have failed or hasn't failed. Showing the product improvements since that particular brand came into being, etc... He wants to know what the failure point of each weapon, RDS, Mag, etc... I shot one of his T&E BCM Middy's and it had 14,000 rounds through it, without ever being cleaned, plus, my 1400 rounds of Wolf 62gr HP Black Box. Another T&E weapon had 24K rounds through it and only cleaned once. He provides feedback to the manufacturers on how they hold up and what breaks during a carbine course. The students and the manufacturers, all benefit from that knowledge. You're right though, his cleaning schedule is much worse than mine. I only clean ever 3000 rounds, maybe.:)
Those are TE guns, and he also said he would clean a duty weapon more often.
I think the point is, generally, that you don't need to clean the gun so there is not a single spec of carbon anywhere on the gun....but for duty a gun should be cleaned more often than several thousand rounds.
I clean my HD guns after shooting them each time, and my toys maybe every 1-3k rounds depending on my mood. And based on the method I have developed for myself it takes no more than 20 minutes to do a 90% job.
People take the TE gun thing too far, and extrapolate that over into the duty gun arena thinking cleaning is a waste of time and/or not needed because "Pat has XX,XXX rounds through a gun without cleaning".
.
I've never seen an aluminum GI cleaning rod.
somehow the T got left off my "cant"... post edited above.
the only steel sectional rods i've ever seen were about 80 years old. try putting a magnet to your rod... i seriously doubt its steel.
This is the first tear down in about 3,000 rounds. I say about because I don't actually log each day out, I count by cases of ammunition gone :D
I have gotten rid of 2 cases of 1,000 rounds and about 3/4 of another 1,000 round case. Call it what, 2600-2800 rounds.
Any ways, I learned something last night when I did this little tear down.
1) My shit is well oiled.
2) The oil in the U-groove of the charging handle is a sludge or green baby shit.
3) My Buffer roll-pin is part way out and about to cause me financial loss at the least.
4) My bolt is pretty clean, I spent 30-40 seconds with the brass barrel brush cleaning it (Picture after 30-40 seconds come below)
5)My over-oil mental problems seem to work as prescribed by others.
6) If you over oil, your gun me 1 step from death from mechanical failure. You might want to take it apart now and again to give a good visual. (See point #3 above).
7) There is no appreciable wear in the upper, the bolt-carrier, the bolt or anywhere else. I went and bought one of those 90° fiber optic lights to run into the barrel and the bolt carrier so I can closely inspect. The running of the rifle wet is doing its job.
So, this is a 30-40 second cleaning of the bolt tail with the brass barrel cleaning brush. No CLP or anything, I just brushed it real fast back and forth and called it good.
http://i409.photobucket.com/albums/pp174/larry0071/AR%20BCG%20Comparison/100_2496.jpg
I decided that I might take a look at the extractor while we are here. It looked kind of crappy with junk all over it, but required nothing but a dry patch to make it clean.
http://i409.photobucket.com/albums/pp174/larry0071/AR%20BCG%20Comparison/100_2499.jpg
Also, this bolt still had the old 3-piece gas rings and they would not hold the weight of the bolt carrier up on the bolt, so I put the spiral gas ring in that I stock in the safe.
Here is a picture of the bolt carrier NOT FALLING down on the bolt after putting in the spiral gas rings.
http://i409.photobucket.com/albums/pp174/larry0071/AR%20BCG%20Comparison/100_2501.jpg
So now I'm ready to rock next weekend, but I think what I am taking from this is that I may not really need to clean mine so often, but I need more frequent tear down to inspect for things that may be going wrong.... like my buffer roll-pin that is falling out. Had we not discussed this and my deciding to take a look, I would not have found this:
http://i409.photobucket.com/albums/pp174/larry0071/AR%20BCG%20Comparison/100_2492.jpg
RogerinTPA
01-23-10, 13:54
Those are TE guns, and he also said he would clean a duty weapon more often. This I know and agree. My point as a hobby/serious shooter for training purposes, you don't have to be so anal in your cleaning.
I think the point is, generally, that you don't need to clean the gun so there is not a single spec of carbon anywhere on the gun....but for duty a gun should be cleaned more often than several thousand rounds. Agreed
I clean my HD guns after shooting them each time, and my toys maybe every 1-3k rounds depending on my mood. And based on the method I have developed for myself it takes no more than 20 minutes to do a 90% job.
People take the TE gun thing too far, and extrapolate that over into the duty gun arena thinking cleaning is a waste of time and/or not needed because "Pat has XX,XXX rounds through a gun without cleaning".
My cleaning philosophy was developed, and my individual shooting regiment, way prior to taking a Pat Roger's course. His course was cited since it was brought up by another poster, as to what I observed during the class. If you feel the need to clean, then by all means do so. I know my ARs are reliable beyond the 3K rounds fired mark, as well as my M&P pistols, with just the addition of lube, so 3K rounds is my cleaning benchmark.
the only steel sectional rods i've ever seen were about 80 years old. try putting a magnet to your rod... i seriously doubt its steel.
Every one of my 50 or so sections, in all calibers between 5.56 thru .50 are most definately steel. The military does not issue aluminum cleaning rod sections, and AFAIK never has.
I would agree with you if you are talking about civilian rod sections.
Every one of my 50 or so sections, in all calibers between 5.56 thru .50 are most definately steel. The military does not issue aluminum cleaning rod sections, and AFAIK never has.
I would agree with you if you are talking about civilian rod sections.
perhaps my memory is not serving me... can nobody else verify? sectioned steel cleaning rods are incredibly obsolete and most definately cause damaging wear- especially in the hands of privates who dont know shit/give a shit about proper weapon maintainance.
but, as i said, i admit my memory may be wrong- it's been a long time since i was a private not knowing shit/giving a shit, jamming an issued cleaning rod down an issued bore.
My personal issued kit from the 80’s has steel rod sections. My current issue kit, ordered about a year ago, has steel rod sections as well.
ETA:
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4018/4298650279_3f028ca4ec_o.png
I always enjoyed launching the cleaning rods with blanks into trees. ;)
Seriously - lube rocks, but what I dont consider "overly" cleaning, I do prefer to put away clean. The early DI anal conditioning is still there! I picked up a used Colt AR several years back and was shocked - never cleaned. Once I got down through the muck - pitted bolt!
Just a little care could have avoided this one!
Waste of time and money.
Bigger waste of money. Right up there with chamber gauges, feed lip tools and gas tube wrenches...
bkb, you had me wondering if I was going nuts or something there for a while. :D I kept checking my rods looking for an AL version. Hacksawed one in half to look at the metal.
You don't know how many soldiers I've had to correct when I see them jamming the cleaning rod in from the muzzle end. My first squad leader was a Marine sniper, and he showed all of us FNGs the proper way to rod a bore by taking 3 rod sections, the borebrush and eyelet and inserting the rod into the chamber end and pulling it through instead of pushing it like they taught us in boot camp. Fastest way I've ever seen of cleaning a bore, besides a boresnake. Also lessens the chance of messing up the bore and crown.
For those interested, posted Part One of my CRT-15 review over the weekend.....http://www.weaponevolution.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1999
i dont care how loobed your stick is, you cannot remove bolt tail or carrier carbon with a rag.
If you cleaned with Gunzilla you can. The first time your bolt might need a bit of a scrub after that the carbon does not stick or bond to the metal. Just spray, wipe and done. Your weapon is cleaned and properly lubed
You can try non-chlorinated brake cleaner from the auto parts store. There are chemicals out there that can and will do a better job than CLP.
A pitted bolt tail is traditionally considered to be Bad Thing. Why the conclusion is made needs examination. First, it indicated poor maintenance. Second, a corrosive substance was used the ate into a carbon steel part.
There is the command culture maintenance method, and the field maintenance method. The first emphasizes cleaning the weapon to inspection standards, using minimum oil, and storing the weapon in a humidity controlled 72 degreee environment for long periods. The field method is to use "too" much oil, wipe it down, and shoot it again.
The field method will prevent corrosion because it's done daily. Lube will dilute corrosive deposits, keep it loose, and allow it to be removed.
In the case of the pitted bolt tail, I interpret a different method was used. Shoot it dirty and leave it.
BUT - what functional difference does a pitted bolt tail have on the cycling and performance of the AR? It's not a contact surface bearing on any other part. The interior length is there to support the firing pin, that's about all. In function, it's just takes up space in the bolt carrier and the surface acts as a barrier to gas pressure, much like a piston top. EVery time the trigger is pulled, it will get blasted with high temp, high pressure dirty gas from the burnt propellant.
Clean or dirty, the only thing that changes is the micro CC volume contained in the BCG when the action is closed. I doubt it will affect the unlocking of the bolt whatsoever.
I don't take the heads off my cars to repeatedly clean the piston tops, but I might use a gas additive to do it. Ergo, the answer to pitting is MORE LUBE, wipe it down, shoot it more. Enjoy the fact pitting doesn't really do anything one way or the other.
DrBackJack
02-10-10, 19:06
Anyone ever thought of using a vibrating toothbrush on the bolt?
I just use the threaded end of the eyelet and scrape off the carbon. Takes about a minute.
Not saying its necessary or not...but I will see using my own carbine.
theblackknight
06-06-10, 17:22
The Marine Corps taught me some good things in Boot Camp and some very silly things that will harm the rifle. I have enough sense to realize that.
You mean taking rifles to the wash racks was bad??????:D
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