View Full Version : First-Build Advice Appreciated
I have two ARs and have decided it's time to build my own. What I plan to build is a general purpose 16" AR in 5.56 with good parts but nothing fancy. Because this entire build will take at least a year to complete (time and money constraints), I've decided to start slowly and begin with the lower. Here's what I'm considering and would appreciate any feedback on my choices:
Stripped lower - either LCW or Stag (not sure which of these two are considered better than the other, or whether there's something better for about the same $$)
LPK - again, either LCW or Stag (not sure which of these two are considered better than the other, or whether there's something better for about the same $$)
Collapsable 6-position M4-type buttstock - Stag (because I've read that Stag stocks follow mil spec)
Like I said, nothing fancy; that's not my style. I just like good, solid products that consistently do well what they are supposed to do.
Thanks in advance.
I have two ARs and have decided it's time to build my own. What I plan to build is a general purpose 16" AR in 5.56 with good parts but nothing fancy. Because this entire build will take at least a year to complete (time and money constraints), I've decided to start slowly and begin with the lower. Here's what I'm considering and would appreciate any feedback on my choices:
Stripped lower - either LCW or Stag (not sure which of these two are considered better than the other, or whether there's something better for about the same $$)
LPK - again, either LCW or Stag (not sure which of these two are considered better than the other, or whether there's something better for about the same $$)
Collapsable 6-position M4-type buttstock - Stag (because I've read that Stag stocks follow mil spec)
Like I said, nothing fancy; that's not my style. I just like good, solid products that consistently do well what they are supposed to do.
Thanks in advance.
I just did a build with a DPMS lower. The fit and finish on it were excellent and I paid around $110 for it locally, although I have seen it cheaper online.
I also used a DPMS LPK. Quality is good and the trigger is about what you would find on a military issue M16, about a 6 pound pull with some creep. The kit was $55.
A mil-spec stock will be determined on whether you have a mil-spec buffer tube. Here is a good diagram showing the difference mil-spec and commercial:
http://www.magpul.com/pdfs/technotes/ctr/buffertubeid.pdf
I ordered the Magpul CTR Mil-spec Kit. It consists of a Magpul CTR stock, mil-spec buffer tube, mounting plate, castle nut, buffer and buffer spring all for $150. The CTR is an excellent collapsable stock that has a friction lock that locks the stock to the buffer tube for zero movement.
http://www.rainierarms.com/?page=shop/detail&product_id=484
I agree that DPMS is a great lower to build off of. I have 2 of them. I also have a Mega Gator Lower that is great. It has a near billet finish to it, plus the gator grip on the mag well is really useful and cool.
As far as Buffer Tubes go, it is my opinion that a tube is a tube. MilSpec is how you want to go, as it is stronger than commercial tubes. Go with a CMT (http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/Milspec-Receiver-Extention-Buffer-Tube-p/cmt%20milspec%20receiver%20extention.htm)
or VLTOR (https://ssl31.pair.com/padef/gobbels/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=245)
The reason being is that you will pay $29 for a cheap BT, why not spend $15-$20 more on a good tube. 4 Grande Latte's, or 2 tickets to the movies difference. The VLTOR is nice because it has the cool laser etched stock position numbers.
Go with a H or H2 buffer, a decent spring. I use Bushmaster Springs. Don't go spend $40 on a spring, as it is not worth it.
As far as stocks go, it is purely a matter of taste. I like 4 Position CAR stocks and the CTR stock
As far as lower Parts Kits go, RRA or DPMS is also great. Stag makes junk in my opinion. LCW is just Lauer's name stamped on other parts. They have their lowers custom cast, but I would go with DMPS in that case. Best bang for the buck, DPMS preassembled DPMS lower, you can get them with a 6 position stock for $269 on most gun auction sites. It takes the guess work out of the lower. The only drawback is that most of these lowers come with a commercial buffer tube. Here is where you need to shop. http://www.colemantyler.com
You can get DPMS lowers for $97.00, they will put a DPMS parts kit in it for you for $65.00, that is $162.00. If you order before noon, you will get your stuff 2-3 days later. ColemanTyler is the BOMB!
Other parts?
http://www.del-ton.com
http://www.bravocompanyusa.com
http://www.laruetactical.com
http://www.cmmg-inc.com (careful these guys have great stuff, but they are kinda jerks.)
Rainerarms has cool stuff, but i you are East of the Mississippi it is not worth it. They are located on the Pac-Coast, and shipping thru the square states takes forever. Bravocompany is also really great! They ship Priority mail like Colemantyler, so 2-3 days and you have your stuff. Also Rainier rarely has stock on what you need. BravoCompany always have stock on almost everything they carry. They are great for finishing parts, like castle nuts, gas tubes, grips, screws, you name it. IMHO Bravocompany beats nearly everyone for price and availability.
Here is a great deal:
http://www.talonarms.com/talonarms/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=775&zenid=eadbf78551f591ef938fd097d66408a7
http://www.talonarms.com/talonarms/images/large/products/SDI_MAG_TAC001_BLK_LRG.jpg
SDI Lower Receiver w/ LPK, Magpul CTR stock and MIAD grip
I like Sun Devil lowers personally.
When you can find them......
Seriously, you would be lucky to find one. ;)
I like Sun Devil lowers personally.
Great inputs, guys. Thanks.
I got a pretty good deal on a Stag lower: $105 delivered (not including FFL transfer fee of $20, which is the local standard fee).
I noticed Coleman Tyler has A2 uppers but doesn't say what brand. He also has 6-position M4 stocks (the ones I prefer) but does not state whether they are mil-spec or commercial. Does anyone here know?
Speaking of M4 stocks, if the commerical ones have a slightly larger outside diameter, does that mean a commercial tube will not fit my Stag lower?
GunLovinTexan
04-15-07, 14:14
There is no 6 position true milspec collapsable stock......MIL spec is 4 position, Thats the way all LE Colts come in. All 6 position stock are going to be Civilian.
Rob
fivepointoh
04-15-07, 20:24
The 6 position Stag/CMT receiver extension (tubes) are mil-spec.....
If it's going to take a year to get the cash together anyway, why not just save all of your money until you're ready? Spend that time researching all of the constantly evolving gear, and your changing preferences so that when you do finally plop down your green, you'll get the perfect rifle for YOU.
Dubb-1 has a partially good point.
Your tastes and requirements might change over the next year, so yes save your $$ until you are ready. There is one piece you need to buy right now. Your lower.
Warning, political jargon is contained in the next few lines, beware
(H.R. 1022 is being debated daily in Congress, this ban aims to take away "assault weapons" for good. Buy your lowers now. Hell stock up. I know I am. I plan on buying 12-15 lowers in the next year. Who knows what that super-flake GW is willing to trade for our Constitutional Rights, maybe he will trade them for continued funding for his illegal wars or permission to invade Iran. Whatever the case may be, buy your lowers as soon as you are able.)
Also barrels are very constrained right now, because of the above mentioned conflicts, buy your barrels soon too.
BTW, no flaming me on my comments about GW, I was merely illustrating the tenuous state of our freedoms in this tumultuous time. ;)
EDIT:
I am not trying to derail this thread, my point is that if you wait a year to buy your lower, you may be left high and dry.
Was the injection of politics in this thread really necessary? Seriously. What does that commentary have to do with helping someone with his first build? :mad:
Well, in light of today's tragedy at VT, it has a lot to do with build info. I was simply illustrating why if you have the means, you should buy your gun parts most riky-tik. That is why I injected politics into this thread. Hope that answers your question.
So you joined a thread to chide me about my political rant, yet left no build advice? Aren't you a little off topic as well? If you read the whole thread you can clearly see that I have left many helpful tidbits for this member.
I think you missed my point.
Your first response, with all the information you put on places you recommend purchasing items, merits of milspec receiver extensions, etc. is quite good.
The later thread where you went and had to throw in an insult to the President and other moveon.org comments about "illegal war" had nothing to do with the convincing someone that now is the time to buy lowers. If the sun is shining or not, it's always time to buy lowers in my book, unless you're an ARholic who's going through the twelve step program.
From reading Mr. Whytep38's first post, it seems he's pretty much settled on Stag products. If he cares for my opinion, I think Stag is a good choice for a lower, especially if he can purchase a complete one. Outside of LMT or Colt, where else can one get a lower with a milspec receiver extension along with a decent parts kit? Just to get that right the first time is a big step.
I think you missed my point.
Your first response, with all the information you put on places you recommend purchasing items, merits of milspec receiver extensions, etc. is quite good.
The later thread where you went and had to throw in an insult to the President and other moveon.org comments about "illegal war" had nothing to do with the convincing someone that now is the time to buy lowers. If the sun is shining or not, it's always time to buy lowers in my book, unless you're an ARholic who's going through the twelve step program.
From reading Mr. Whytep38's first post, it seems he's pretty much settled on Stag products. If he cares for my opinion, I think Stag is a good choice for a lower, especially if he can purchase a complete one. Outside of LMT or Colt, where else can one get a lower with a milspec receiver extension along with a decent parts
kit? Just to get that right the first time is a big step.
I think you missed the point of my opinion, and that is "pick flowers while they bloom", or "Buy lowers while they are preban" . Do you get my point now.
What mention to Moveon.org did I make. It is my opinion that GW would bow to the Democrats will to get his way, IE: the trouncing of the US constitution.
Damian is a wise man. Take your time, learn, and build the best in terms of function and quality. I built two rifles and am building a third, but I think about making modifications to the two previous builds as I learn more. It is interesting and enjoyable, but it is an expensive education. I am not complaining. I love guns, building guns, owning guns, and shooting guns. However, I thought that I learned a lesson with 1911's (and holsters), which is get the best in terms of function and quality and avoid ending up with equipment that doesn't meet one's needs and incurring the financial loss that occurs when selling guns or equipment. (Now why did I buy that Meopta? I know there is a Short Dot in my future, even if I don't really need it.) It is a little less problematic with AR's because many components are interchangeable, unlike 1911's.
Why would you want 12-15 lowers in the event this new bill makes it through? Do you really want 15 rifles? You do know there is a provision where you can no longer transfer or sell your "bad" rifles, don't you?
I think you missed the point of my opinion, and that is "pick flowers while they bloom", or "Buy lowers while they are preban" . Do you get my point now.
What mention to Moveon.org did I make. It is my opinion that GW would bow to the Democrats will to get his way, IE: the trouncing of the US constitution.
Very well. You win. Have a nice day.
Why would you want 12-15 lowers in the event this new bill makes it through? Do you really want 15 rifles? You do know there is a provision where you can no longer transfer or sell your "bad" rifles, don't you?
Yes I do want 15 rifles, don't you? This ensures that I never have to worry about buying a lower again. Yes I know about the non-transfer provision.
Derek_Connor
04-17-07, 08:51
Yes I do want 15 rifles, don't you? This ensures that I never have to worry about buying a lower again. Yes I know about the non-transfer provision.
No, i dont want 15 rifles if the ban comes.
I want 15thousand rounds of .223 when the ban comes :) You will miss ammo alot sooner than having 3 rifles and 12 uncompleted lowers in your safe :)
Anyway, back to our regularly scheduled program already in progress. :D
I went ahead and got the Stag lower because a) Stag lowers have a good reputation and b) the price ($105 delivered) was right.
Also, Coleman Tyler is currently packaging a DPMS LPK and 6-position stock for shipment to me. Good tip there!
As for saving up and buying all at once, that's is usually the most cost-efficient method. However, the realities of my situation (which is personal, so I won't say more), the slow build is my best, though admittedly not most cost-effective, approach.
As for buying more lowers, I already have several flat-tops, so I have plenty of rifles. In fact, I don't need the one I'm building, but I want to try my hand at building one just to see how well I'll do, plus I want the experience. So when I'm done, I will have more than plenty of rifles. Which is okay, because they are all potential organ donors should serious times befall us. The way I see it, I already have as many functional lowers as I will ever need. But like money and good looks, you can never have enough ammo. So rather than buy more lowers, I intend to buy reloading gear. But that will have to wait until I finish this project.
Sounds like you are well on your way! :)
At least Derek is thinking. Most people can only fantasize about building about 7 or 8 different configurations of their favorites and even with that- they can be accomplished with half as many lowers.
I can think of 3 SBR configs I'd like to have but that can all or would probably be done on only 2 at most- no reason for 3...
However, the realities of my situation (which is personal, so I won't say more), the slow build is my best, though admittedly not most cost-effective, approach.
Hiding the cost from the wife by spreading it out. As Yoda would say "Wise man, you are". :D
Hiding the cost from the wife by spreading it out. As Yoda would say "Wise man, you are". :DWeeeell, that's one way of looking at it. :D
The other way is the boring "good husband" lecture: For every dollar spent on the guns, spend a dollar on the wife.
The downside is a doubling of the price of gun stuff. The upside is a happy wife who doesn't mind what that you spend money on guns. The upside in spending bit-by-bit is that you can afford to do so, whereas saving up for all-at-once is a big challenge. Plus, the wife gets many things spread out over time rather than in lumps, so that makes her even happier.
Okay, boring mode off. Please wake up. :D
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